AT-AP

Yep, and I'm sorry if it sounded like I dragged Petro into this mess. :/

Well, that's a bit harsh. It wouldn't be difficult if they just picked some numbers below 80, slapped on an "MC-" and voilá, three new Mon Cal classes to add to their line. Problem solved. They did this with the Gallofree Yards transports last year (GR-45 and GR-75), they could do it again with the Mon Cals and be rid of that particular fan-headache. Not to keep this debate going indefinitly, but my pet peeve is that it would take Lucas Licensing approximately five minutes to physically write down three new serial numbers, paste them next to each respective movie-model, take a picture and put it on the official side. Instant canon! ;P

Yeah, that is true. I'm almost waiting for them to shrug their shoulders and plant "Allegiance-class somethingsomething" on those Dark Empire ships to get it over with. Is it stated in a canon source that the Independence is the Home One? I know Home One sounds like a call-sign, but they've made it into a naming technique for some of the Mon Calamari cities, so I'm in doubt.

Yes, I think destroying a planet-destroyer merits some kind of promotion. What was the Accusor reknown for, since it's a hero ship?

Agreed. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot!? O___o I've heard the Independence being used as a class-name for the HO, but I was under the impression that was fanon. And the other seem just as suspicous. Which source do you have those from? EDIT: Ah, the Warlords site. They use canon designs in their 3D ships, but the names are sometimes invented by them for classes that aren't named. I believe the three names above go under this definition. And I also found that Independence was a pre-Yavin ship used by Ackbar as his flagship. Apparently, this was of the same class as the Home One.

Corrected into what? Being a push-over for the ISDs? Sorry if I don't quite believe that the Alliance's most powerful ship would be taken out by a single Imperator. And I don't know if the Alliance had those kinds of ships ready before ANH. In fact, I can't remember seeing them so far in the classic SW comics, either.

If the Home One-type ships are at the same level as the regular types, then I don't see any reason to make them 'hero units'. Or command-ships in general SW. Since Lucasarts want to make the Home One a hero unit (and therefore stronger than regular cruisers), it can't actually be "just like all the others".

Weren't they called 'Red Group', just like in ROTJ?

Neither of them are MC-80's. The accompanying drawings of MC-80a's and b's do not look like the ROTJ ships, and can't really be of the same class. And I don't understand how a bigger ship can possibly have less armament than a smaller one, unless the Mon Cals don't utilize the surface area properly. Here's some images of the MC-80a and its various forms through the years (coming from some sources which states the MC-80a to be a post-Endor design and some which states it as pre-Endor. Either way, no real similarity with the ROTJ ones): http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a242/CptK/MC-80as.jpg And here's the Mon Remonda (MC-80b). Also a post-Endor design: http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a242/CptK/MC-80b.jpg None of which look like the ships from ROTJ. Keep in mind, if something is supposed to be of the same class, it can't look too dissimilar to others of the class. I can understand minor things like the assymetrical "bumps" being in different positions on the hull, and likewise for the guns. However, when you start to fiddle with the ship's length and the number of engines, you do move away from the original design and into a new class. For comparison, would you say the Imperator and Venator are the same, just because they're Star Destroyers and can carry ships and ground troops? Or the Victory and Venator?

Nope. And not just because of rain and muddy lakes, but from what we've seen, the terrain is too dense to allow vehicles the size of AT-ATs through. (For other examples, see Endor in ROTJ, where they could only stick to pre-made paths.) Which is why I'm advocating AT-TEs and the like in EaW. With less room to manouver, you'll need more compact assault vehicles, and the AT-TE is like a mini-AT-AT in most respects.

Would be nice to see the heavier vehicles get stuck in mud during heavy rainfalls, like in the Battle of Jabiim comic. Would change tactics somewhat.

I go by measurements from the film, not random made-up facts from an RPG. Hell, you don't even have to measure things to see the Home One is massive, just look at the initial shot of the fighters flying through the fleet right before the Hyperspace jump. There's a "wingless Liberty" to the right of the screen, coming up towards the camera. The Home One (or a ship like it), is to the left and almost stationary in comparison. Even people with rudimentary sense of depth and perception can see that the Home One ship is further back and thus bigger than the cruiser to the right. The pic in question: http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a242/CptK/wingless.jpg (it's easier to see in movement) And, just for comparison, two models constructed by ILM: http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a242/CptK/homeone.jpg Home One http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a242/CptK/Liberty.jpg Liberty And the third is in the fleet-pic above. The Liberty and its wingless sister-design are more "flat" compared to the pickle-shaped Home One. There's even mention in one of the ROTJ production books of how the crew changed one of the two initial models into a third, by ripping out one engine and adding wings. (With accompanying pics.)

This is retarded, how can a ship over twice the size of an ISD loose in a one-to-one situation? Even if the thing doesn't have the same amount of guns (should have more, with its bigger size), the Mon Cal ships were known for their additional shields, which should at least even things up a bit. And I point to ROTJ, where three distinct designs can be seen throughout the film. Any differences between ships of each design would be cosmetic.

Yeah, the Mon Cal had already driven the Empire from their sector by this time, I believe. They managed to help them escape from their main base at Yavin IV a few months after the Battle of Yavin, attacking Imperial blockade fleets at various points to distract them, so they must have had a sizable fleet themselves by this time.

A flagship is only "the ship that carries the commander of a fleet and flies his flag", the definition says nothing about a lack of firepower. That is mostly on a minor cosmetic level, most ships seen in the movies and comics share enough similarities to be grouped into distinct classes. No, there are three types of classes seen in ROTJ, with two being based around a similar hull: http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a242/CptK/mccruisers1.jpg Winged on the right, non-winged on the left. Another winged cruiser going up against a star destroyer: http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a242/CptK/wingedvsdestroyer.jpg Home One-type ship being fragged by the DS II: http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a242/CptK/homeonedead.jpg

Yep. The Z-95 is old, even in the TPM-era it was considered old (but reliable). If anything the X-wing resembles a mix of the Z-95 and ARC-170, while the V-wing is more like an A-wing spliced with a TIE fighter. The Incom corporation was behind the Z-95, ARC-170 and T-65 Xwing, so I would think they would be basing the X-wing on the first two. However, Kuat sold the Delta-line to Sienar, who would most likely combine aspects of the Eta-2, Alpha-3 (V-wing) and their old T.I.E. fighter into the modern Imperial TIE. EDIT: forgot, Clone Fighter could also mean ARC-170, so you were correct.

Sadly, no. The illustrations and stories containing MC-80s do not correspond to the ships seen in the films. I have composed some comparison pics (taken from the Tech. Commentaries site), so you can see the difference in both size and shape: http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a242/CptK/MCships.jpg The Liberty-subclasses would be around 1200m in length, thus making each Home One-type ship approx. twice the size of an Imperator.

There's nothing in the movie to indicate their classes either way. The movie doesn't bother me, it's the inconsistent naming in the EU. Last year we got GR-45 for the "clamshell" transport in ANH and GR-75 for the bigger transports used by the Rebels in ESB and ROTJ. Following this example, how hard would it be to actually name the Mon Cal ships from ROTJ? All they have to do, is use numbers that haven't been listed before, like MC-85 or something. By being different from the MC-80a and b, and still lower than MC-90, this would solve the problem and I wouldn't have to strain my fingers writing down the nicknames ;P. It is one-of-a-kind since it's the Supreme Naval Commander's ship. Just as the Executor is one-of-a-kind being Vader's personal warship. Doesn't mean it's singular.

The problem with the Mon Cal ships, is that they keep mixing up names. As far as I've been able to gather, the ROTJ ships have never been attributed any class-names (the only ones used having already been attributed ships that don't look like them at all). Now, Lucas Licensing, or whoever, made up some excuse about all ships being slightly different, which doesn't really explain why the same three designs keep showing up during the Battle of Endor and other stories (any differences between ships of each class would therefore be minor, cosmetic ones). I only hope newer sources will finally give these proper names, because using "Liberty-type", "Home One-type" and "wingless Liberty-type" gets tiring. I suppose the only names used in EAW is "Mon Cal Cruiser", right? Could be two different ships with the same names. On a galactic scale, it'd be hard to avoid similar names once in a while.

Actually, the Home One had an entire class and wasn't particularly unique. At least one sister-ship got fragged by the DS II (the second we see blown up) and another one passed behind the Executor as it fell (it's the scene before we see the fall from Ackbar's POV, so unless the Ex twisted around from scene to scene, his ship would be the second of this class in vicinity of it.) But I reckon him being the supreme commander of the Rebel Navy would earn him a special ship anyway, so hero unit sounds fine to me. And speaking of Mon Cal classes, does the game have the ones with wings and the ones without (but with an extra engine)? Or is it just the winged ones?

Well, they found God and repelled a foreign invasion, sounds like the Mujahedeen to me. ;P

Actually, both Gungans and Ewoks have skilled warriors, albight with mostly low-tech knowledge. The Gungans fielded batteries of ion-ball-throwing catapults (able to knock out many droids with each hit) and several shield-generators (blocking tank-fire and keeping repulsor-units on the outside), used personal shields to reflect blaster-bolts (+1 cool-point imho) and could even go head-to-head with droidekas. The Ewoks were able to build and field rock-catapult batteries, chop down, carry and prepare log-traps and throw decent-sized rock that would kill any bare-headed human and seriously concuss helmeted troops (like in the film). Even with all this, they were still loosing before Chewie high-jacked an AT-ST (realizing the importance of armored support, that's our Chewie!). Jar-Jar is a poor representation of Gungan soldiers and the Ewoks are merely derided due to their size and "cute" look. Would you be equally willing to deride dwarfs in LOTR simply because of their size or Gimli's occasional goofy behaviour?

Interesting thing about ion weapons. There seems to be a brain-bug* about them, i.e only being able to disable electronics, not hurt anyone. This is not true, as electrically charged bolts would do horrific damage to biological targets, since they have electrical currents running through them just as droids and computers. I also recall a SW novel describing an AT-AT's leg having two joints welded together by an ion cannon blast, thus incapacitating it. *A "brain-bug" is a term used for ideas that end up being overstated when based on little previous evidence, i.e that bio-tech and bio-ships are better than metallic tools or that aliens are all alike in one culture.

Could be an ion cannon shot, could also be from one of the larger cannons on Mon Cal ships. IIRC, the biggest bolts fired in ROTJ were approx the length of an ISD. (And destroyed one when its shields were down)

Yes, and with uploading into photobucket or imageshack, bitmap-pics are converted to one of these filetypes.