SOCL

Amazing, a conversation from Imperial ranks to Thrawn to Daala to avatars. Seems like normal, everyday SWR to me. Spoliers ahead! Something that should be noted is that Zaarin being replaced by Thrawn is probably not an isolated incident (or at least shouldn't be treated as one). It's quite possible that out of thirteen grand admirals we know of (Thrawn having been the 13th to replace one of the original twelve), there could be a handful more who replaced old or "undesirable" grand admirals, which explains why there are so many names for grand admirals floating around. Additionally, remember that some rogue admirals called themselves grand admiral after the fall of the Emperor, for instance, in Stackpole's X-Wing: Bacta War, the captain of the Lusankya ended up calling himself grand admiral for only a few minutes before he was...detained by his own men. Then people like Zsinj wore a Grand Admirals uniformed and gave off the air of being an officer of such high rank, though, in fact, he was only an admiral before that. All that, including the mystery that lies behind that particular rank, causes a lot of sources to be off. That's not to say we don't know who the real grand admirals are, it's just quite possible that the reason there is so much confusion is because of the post-Endor drama and the fact that the rank of Grand Admiral during Palpatine's reign was all ready mysterious enough on its own that it's quite possible, possibly even likely that false names were spread in rumors so that the real Grand Admirals couldn't be identified. Remember, these were guys of rank higher than High Admirals, Moffs, Grand Moffs, and Supreme Moffs, so they were probably up to classified operations/no good (or good, depending on your point-of-view). Daala, I agree with Paul, was written from a "Rebels-must-win" point-of-view. I believe she was a truly competent person who was always at the wrong place at the wrong time. For instance, losing a Star Destroyer (Hydra) before being able to go into action sucks, much less the loss of another when Ackbar rammed a Mon Cal cruiser into it, and then losing a third to an supernova. Now that's just plain bad luck. Even so, though, I think that those initial events in Daala's career (and the fact that her career really didn't start until after the fall of the Empire Proper) messed with her ability to reason, causing her to go on fanatical operations like the one in Darksaber against Yavin IV. Of course, that novel is another case of the good-guys-must-win syndrome (Jedis flinging an entire fleet across the galaxy...please ) because before that Daala proved herself a great Imperial officer when she forced the warlords into unification (even if it cost her the warlords). Pellaeon. Gilad Pellaeon. I truly like his character, and I believe he is simply another one of those officers, like Daala, who did his duty, but simply was in the wrong place at the wrong time and the Fates were against him. Think about it. At Endor, his captain is killed and he has the bear the burden of calling the retreat from the battlefield. What kind of guilt did he live with for that(?), to then find the Empire in shambles controlled by people like Isard, Zsinj, and Harsk. Then you have him as de facto second-in-command to one of the galaxy's most powerful men, the tactical genius that was Thrawn, to then witness his commander's death aboard the bridge of his ship! THE GUILT! Then everything down to having to be the one to go with logic and call for a peace treaty! This is a man who served the Empire well, doing his duty and always following orders. He could have quite easily become a warlord and done whatever the hell he wanted, but he, like Daala, stayed loyal to the Imperial ideal and, in my opinion, deserved his rank. It would be interesting to know, though, what Pellaeon thinks and if he believes he deserves the rank....

SWR just doesn't like to work for me sometimes. It's weird, really because I haven't seen a topic reply notification, though, since like when I first joined... And I know, despite my brief and not-so-brief absences, I have posted/spammed since I first joined...

Wait, did the regular release of HL2 come with the 5 CDs? Collector's apparently only comes with one, but on that one is included HL2, HL Source, Counter-Strike Source, and apparently it's also a DVD.

New Age will f*ck you up, yet it's fun! Lesiem - Liberta

I agree!

Woa, hold 'yer horses, Scath meant the king not our Elvis.Oh, phew. For a sec there I thought something bad happened to Elvis. Hey, Scath, what happened to your avatar and your signature?

Just because the planet is controlled by the Empire does not mean there is a garrison there additionally. Additionally, they could very well have borrowed the Dewbaks from locals, but simply stating that the Devastator didn't have a "zoo" aboard it doesn't mean a thing since we know that Star Destroyers carried everything required for their on-ship garrison to conduct a ground assault (this, of course, does not mean they always carry Dewbaks, so you could have a point). The other point is, who is to say the Stormtroopers we saw on the ground were all from the Devastator? By what I saw in the movie, it seems that once the Tantive IV has been captured, the Devastator takes off. We do know that at least two-four other Star Destroyers were in orbit at the time Luke and the others escaped the planet, so it's quite possible that any of those other Star Destroyers was carrying Dewbaks aboard it. Additionally, if Tatooine had a garrison, wouldn't they have picked up on a certain X-Wing fighter and a certain freighter (i.e. the Millenium Falcon) coming into the system? After all, wouldn't it look rather strange for a Rebel star fighter to land on an Empire-controlled and garrisoned planet? Additionally, we know the Empire had the signature and was searching for the Falcon, so how on Earth would they have succeeded in not only landing but also leaving with a garrison on-planet?

Yes, I realize, but what you have stated (BB-gun versus machine gun) is a tad exagerated when compared to the Battle of Geonosis or any other battle of the Clone Wars. I don't mean to say you don't have a point, but we clearly saw the Republic troops winning out against the Seperatist droids, so doesn't this render it rather moot? Yes, casualties were probably pretty high, but the Republic had less troops and the advantage of brains (not processors). Tatooine had a garrison? I do not recall it being mentioned in the movies. And Jahled has a point, economically, clone troopers are the best way to go. Additionally, it seems obvious by now that Kamino was not the only planet in the galaxy with cloning facilities. Additionally, who is to say that all the clones at the Battle of Geonosis were all the clones produced on Kamino. The army assembled at Geonosis could have very well been only a fraction of the clones on Kamino. After all, do you think that the clones we saw with Obi-Wan were actually all the clones on Kamino? Additionally, do you actually think that Kamino only has 1 clone production facility?

More Bush Americanism. "...you can keep your dead giraffe and swine, I'll take dead baboons any time." -Tim Cavanow, 99 Dead Baboons

Everything confuses you, SOCL... True. You probably think Elvis lives as well! What...what do you mean?... You mean yesterday? Cute.

Yeah, it took me a total of 2 hours to install HL2. 30 minutes for the installation from the CD, 1.5 hours to install the stuff from the Steam server. Of course, it'll probably install faster on DSL or Cable than on dial-up. Okay, but to keep from spoiling it, I'll put it in black text. To read it, just highlight the following:You're Gordon Freeman, MIT graduate, ex-Black Mesa associate, and all around good guy. You have joined the infamous "G-Man" and have apparently been in some sort of hibernation for a while now. You wake the hissing voice of your new boss who beckons you to be "the wrong man in the right place." Suddenly you find yourself aboard a train with two other passengers, one of whom observes he didn't notice you board. At the end of the train you find yourself in what the telecaster says is CIty 17. Apparently the the portal flux you caused a few years back at Black Mesa has caught the attention of an imperial power called the "Combine," who came to Earth soon after you killed the Nihilanth on Xen (end of the first Half-Life) and have taken over. The former adminstrator at Black Mesa (not to be confused with the "G-Man") has forged a treaty of sorts with the Combine to allow certain cities, such as City 17 and City 14, to remain populated by humans. Still, the Combine is cruel, ready to destroy all human life. As Gordon Freeman you team up with fellow freedom fighters Barney Calhoun (ex-Security Guard at Black Mesa), Dr. Alex Kliener (mentor at MIT who found you your job at Black Mesa), Dr. Eli Vance (an associate from Black Mesa who survived the incident), and Alyx Vance (Dr. Vance's daughter), your mission: bring about the Combine's reckoning, as an allied Vortigaunt so eloquently put it. I won't give away much more of the storyline to allow you to play, but basically you leave City 17 to rendezvous with other freedom fighters, fighting the aliens who inhabit the places between "safe zones" and Combine troops guarding roads and towns along the way. Hope that helped.

Guns N' Roses - Paradise City

Amazing how far this debate has come. I believe that Jahled has the upper-hand, but Steller made a good point when he said that clone production on Kamino could in no way keep up with the production of droids in the Seperatist Army. Even so, Jahled has made a rebuttle by pointing out that cloning would logically have happened on other planets and not just Kamino (Wayland may, for example, be one of those facilities, though it seems to be more of a storehouse than a true cloning facility). Steller, one thing, though, is that the clone battalions may not have been conventional sized. Most military units in times of emergency are, in fact, are twice as large, so battalions may have grown to be anywhere from standard battalion size to brigade size, which would supplement against the ever-increasing droid army. Additionally, the mere fact that droids in the Seperatist Army out number the humans in the Republic really isn't an issue since we find that humans can outsmart droids quite easily (TPM: "Wait, that does not compute...um...you're under arrest.") Even so, it seems that I have found a BEAK padawan....

I didn't mean to sound offended, but the EU is full of crap, that I acknowledge. No worries, Jahled, my friend! It seems like the stormtroopers are all clones, but it's hard to believe that they're all Jango Fett clones. I think that by the time of ANH, the Empire was probably using troopers from other units and officers (who we have established to probably be "normals") to clone more troops (kind of how Thrawn cloned his best troops in Dark Force Rising), which explains the different yet similiar voices of the stormtroopers in the OT. Does that make sense and/or make a reasonable and believable compromise?

The boats slowly crept up to the tropical island base. SOCL, commander of the strike force, smiled as the rafts came closer to shore. It was too easy, even a fool like Trej--Scat--Mad--someone foolish could clearly tell the infamous Zoot Island, the most striking feature being the sterotypical "bad-guy" skull, only this one had ears...like a kitty. Kitty...kitty.... SOCL snapped back to reality, pulling himself away from those nightmares of a catty-like shadow breaking into his base and rendering his troops helplessly stupid, all of them wearing pink fuzzy slippers. More bad memories. But now, he had succeeded in raising a new army of troopers, better than the last, each wearing stupid-proof armor and carrying a spray can of Cat-Away. The rafts at last reached the shore and they disembarked, SOCL leading. The strike force made their way through the jungle, meeting up with other units from the strike force. It seemed like all was going according to plan. Within seconds the cave kitty cave was surrounded. SOCL decided it was time to report to base. "HQ, this is SOCL; come in, Scath." "Go ahead, SOCL," returned Scath's voice. "We have the cave surrounded and ready to go. You may send in the Trej...wait...there's something emerging...." The side door to the cave opened with a pleasant chime and out stepped none other than the infamous...SOCL?! SOCL was perplexed. It was as if he was he was looking in a mirror. Then it came, over his radio; that high-pitched laugh... "Yes, SOCL," came the voice over the radio, probably made to sound high-pitched by the radio, "meet SOCOL!" "_THRAWN! How could you?!" SOCL yelled into the radio. "How?! HAHAHAHA!" _Thrawn laughed. "Easy! I CLONED you!" "But, why? When?!" SOCL questioned. "Remember when I spoke of the Zoot Wars back in the seventh post of page 43?" "Yes, but I thought that was just a misspelling of my name!" SOCL returned. "Yes, well, you thought wrong!" _Thrawn replied, pleased to hear the fear in SOCL's voice. "HAHAHAHAHA!" ....

Argh! Mad, your signature confuses me! Every time I see the Emperor's zappy picture, I think you are Elvis! Hey, nice avatar, AdmiralFishFace (great name, by the way!) My friend in Virginia used to refer to Ackbar as "Fish Face" or "Fishy" when we used to play with action figures (which have long since disappeared....).

Disk 5? Mine only come with one disk.... I bought the game Saturday at the on base mall (called a "PX"). Initially all I saw was the regular edition(s), each having a different face on the front (i.e. Freeman, Alyx, and the G-Man), and so I stood there for what, in retrospect, seems like an hour...and that's when I saw the COLLECTOR'S EDITION! Being the Half-Life fanatic I am (I own three version of Half-Life, two versions of Opposing Force, two versions of Team Fortress Classic, two versions of Counter-Strike, Blue Shift, Half-Life 2, and a Half-Life 2 T-shirt) I HAD to get the Half-Life 2 Collector's Edition (incidentally, it brought one of the above mentioned Counter-Strikes, one of the versions of Half-Life, the T-shirt, and Half-Life 2). Next I plan to purchase the relatively old PS2 Half-Life for the sole fact that it is has a co-op game that I have yet to beat (I played it with my younger sister some years back when a friend lent it to me, though I never completed it). Oh what joys of joy! My heart explodes with the happiness of FINALLY owning and playing Half-Life 2! I have been awaiting this day(s) since 2000 when I, at last, beat Half-Life! Oh what happiness, what greatness! THE game is GREAT! AWESOME! WOO YAY to the EXTREME! I command a GIF-maker to great a GRAND WOO YAY of HALF-LIFE 2 and/or HALF-LIFE 2's RELEASE so that we may all celebrate this momentous occasion in WOO YAY-like style! The only down side to the game, it took me nearly two hours to install since it calls for a WHOLE mess of online files and other computer stuff that is beyond my intellect.

What just happened? Re-read this last page in the mindset of someone who read it all out of context...sounds funny, doesn't it? Anyway. Green Day - American Idiot

"If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. If you don't succeed again, then you just wasted a whole lot of time trying to do something you couldn't." -Stink's dad (Hey Arnold)

8O 8O FOOL, DO NOT PROVOKE HIM! 8O 8O ::turns to the others:: We must flee.

I know we're throwing away the EU material, but one last comment; do not forget that in Champions of the Force, Kyp Durron's brother had nearly forgotten his name and spouted off his number as a stormtrooper. Well, now that EU has been thrown out, that was pointless. Okay, I think that's it is more or less safe to say that the Star Wars movies and the Star Wars Expanded Universe exist as nearly independent entities. Think of it as, the movies affect the EU, but not the other way around. Yes, the movies might pull information and use different little things from the EU, it does not mean that the EU is "as official" as the movies--or at least, it seems we have all kind of come to that conclusion. Following that line of thought, yes, it seems that MANY of the troopers in the movies probably are clones. I seriously doubt that they are ALL Jango Fett clones as some clones may actually mature and advance differently, making them better. At the same time, I believe that the army is not TOTALLY made up of clones, instead it's a combination with a broad majority of them being clones. This, though, can't really be supported by anything in the movies, but it seems to make sense to have clones AND recruits in the army. If we, then, believe that there were non-clones in the Imperial forces, then we can probably say that there are some that actually preform better than the clones, giving way to the cloning of people other than Jango Fett (this upholds the fact that stormtroopers throughout the movies have different voices). On thing, though, according to sources (you can view this on the Technical Commentaries), ANH presents a stormtrooper officer, Commander Praji, not in the infamous white armor; it can be located here in the section labeled "Imperial Stormtroopers". This leads me to believe that not everyone who was a stormtrooper was, in fact, a clone, but that regular recruiting went on (at least for the officer corps).

I remember when I made the mistake summoning Zo--that cat. Jeez, I almost did it again, I've to be more careful with what I say. Does anyone, by the way, remember that HUGE Z**t War that occured sometime back that included my commandos and many missing action figures? Was that the First or the Second or even the Third of those wars? I can't quite recall.... My forces are preparing for war...they've got some updating to do.

Jeez, I haven't seen Igor post this much before...ever.

Like I haven't heard that before.

White Stripes - Seven Nation Army