SOCL

It seems that most of us agree that the Zahn-Stackpole/Allston trio seems to be the best trio of all. Why? They're enjoyable and seem Star Wars-y to read...but then again, the X-Wing novels--as described by Jahled--can be summed as being: Rogue-super-hero-team-rebel- alliance-squadron and this is basically true. But, regardless, most of us can say that once you get past the "Rogue-super-hero-team-rebel- alliance-squadron", it basically becomes a fun read. I think the New Jedi Order was mean to correct and clean-up most of this trivial competition amongst the authors (if that's really what it is). Notice how in the NJO we had a committee of editors working together to make sure the series didn't become a stupid "Rogue-super-hero-team-rebel- alliance-squadron" (I like that phrase). They followed Zahn's advice about making Luke less super-Jedi, they made Kyp's super-Jedi skills bad by making him a rogue, and basically addressed all the stupidities of the past. Also notice that the NJO barely makes any references to the Bantam EU novels, mostly only relying on the Zahn and Stackpole/Allston novels with some references here and there to the Jedi Academy. It seems as though those editors (who, by the way, included most of the better authors, specifically Stackpole) recognize who insane the EU became (i.e. "Supernova-inducing missiles from a fightercraft, Star Destroyers twelve miles in length, Jedi's hurling multiple mile long starships through space, etc") and tried to better it. I think that the NJO as a Star Wars series has been quite a success, bringing the EU back down from warlordism it had taken on to a more Star Wars-like atmosphere. It seems the next series of books (post-NJO called "Dark Nest" or something like that) is about a race of insectoid creatures that are harassing the Chiss in the Unknown Regions (this is probably addressing the terrible things alluded to by Parck in Vision of the Future, something many of the authors have wanted and feel should be addressed). Though it will be fun to see the Chiss factored into everything, I have the bad feeling this is going to be StarWarsShip Troopers.... This seems to be a sore part amongst fans. I mean, do you guys remember when Ben Kenobi mentioned that he was in the Clone Wars and nothing else? Sure, all of us wanted to know more about it, but at the same time we didn't! Our imagniations had already gone wild with what the Clone Wars were all about. We all thought it would be a war of ENORMOUS proportions that were terrible and dark where the Jedi were witnessed committing atrocisities, which led to their dislike by many worlds. This would eventually lead, but not be the cause of the fall of the Republic and the rise of the Empire. Of course, it has been changed and now it seems...well...too light and too known, nowhere near as dark, mysterious, and epic as we all expected.... SPOILERS AHEAD We'll probably have the wedding of Jagged Fel and Jaina Solo, and she'll give birth to super-Jedi-who-will-turn-to-the-Dark-Side-but-then-become-good-again-and-be-forgiven-for-destroying-a-planet, Anakinbensoontirwedgehanchewbacca Fel-Solo. By the way, Anakin Solo is dead, correct? He died in Dark Tide II: Ruin, correct? Or am I totally off? This is something I very much agree with Jahled on. You look at websites like the Techincal Commentaries and you'll find a lot of good information, but then you'll find some insanity/border-line stupidity like the Warships of the Empire entries! Here, Dr. Saxton claims that insignificant, funny-looking Star Destroyers and what-not are actually each their own class of warship (esp. from the Dark Empire comics)! As Jahled said, this is WAY too far-out! It's situations like that where people try to rationalize even the most insignificant, unimportant, totally 'out-there' details in the EU that gives the EU a bad rep. YES! Despite what Lucas and the novels say, I believe that each individual person is allowed to decide what is canon for them and what is not. As far as referencing and officially, the movies are the canon. Beyond that, each individual person believes what he or she wishes to. I personnally would very much like to believe the Zahn novels are canon, but they simply aren't and can't (at this point in time). I'm with you on this one all the way, Jahled! This is another reason I'm rather pleased with the New Jedi Order. In NJO, the authors took Corran and made him more of an older, wiser Jedi than the ex-police-gone-Rogue-Jedi-fighter-pilot-soldier he was previously. Now, Horn comes across a little wiser and well-mannered than he did when talking about that stupid ryshcate (I hate that cliche stupidity...ryshcate...richcake! ) with his pilot-smuggler-Rogue-helper-sunshine wife, Mirax. Agreed. Though I rather like Zsinj because he seemed like a more-or-less intelligent commander who seemed to truly want what was best for his troops--though he started to crack towards the end. Isard, on the other hand, seems to be like Daala--just when you thought she was dead, she's not! "Oh no, kids, it seems like Ysanne Isard is up to her no-good tricks again! Let's see what kind of mischief 'Rogue-super-hero-team-rebel-alliance-squadron' gets into this time!" Seriously, she wasn't even a good military commander and was more annoying that fearfel. Actually, I would classify Isard, Daala, and clone Palpatine in the same category because of the "Hey, I'm back! Be scared despite the fact you're going to win and have always won!" In the Hand of Thrawn duology, though I would have loved to see the Grand Admiral alive, I was very much worried Thrawn would be made...stupid by having him come back every tweleve or thriteen novels to cause more mischief...thank goodness it didn't turn into that. Just another reason so many EU fans have come to dislike the prequels. Actually, I think most of us EU fans should be a little more humble and, well, we can do nothing about so--without wanting to sound like a rude ass about it--just deal with it. Don't worry, once we all get past the acceptance stage, the others (crying, depression, hate, etc.) go by pretty quickly.

Les Miserables - Dog Eat Dog

Huh?

You see, I really am not very interested with the Jedi and the Force and all that other nonesense the EU has exploded around, but mostly the good vs. evil idea of the Classic trilogy. So Darksaber seemed like an unlikely novel for me to read, but as it turns out, it was what really got me into reading Star Wars novels after having vowed like many to never ruin it. As a matter of fact, it was Pellaeon's insistant allusions to Thrawn that made me read Timothy Zahn's original novels. And, in looking back, though I hated the stupidity behind a group of student-Jedi-trainees launching Star Destroyers through space at the price of only one student (they should have all died, but then again, I hold no love for the Jedi ), I rather enjoyed watching Daala kill-off all the warlords and unite them. Before and after that...nothing. I mean, I also liked the part where Daala hands the Empire over to Pellaeon (something long in coming, in my opinion), I really hated watching Daala--an Imperial ADMIRAL--fail again. It was like watching Saturday morning cartoons where the villian returns and the narrator says, "Oh, no, the bad guys back! Let's see what kind of crazy mishaps and adventures our heroes get into again!" I mean, it was almost as though Daala is this bad guy who keeps coming back despite being "dead" just cause more havoc that will put everyone into a panic (despite the fact either the Jedi can wave their hands and end the mess). I'm actually surprised people on Coruscant don't turn to each other and laugh, saying, "Oh, please, the Empire?! We've never lost! They're not even worth taking seriously! We've got better things to do than play with babies!" One thing I will give Darksaber, it is very well written, a vast improvement over the Jedi Academy trilogy (also by Kevin J. Anderson). As far as the comment concerning Zahn's own saga within Star Wars, as Trej has mentioned (I've started hearing this around TheForce.Net as well, though I try to stay away from there...), I don't particularly agree. I think what has happened is that Zahn created secondary characters that have caught the imagination and attention of the fans SO strongly that LucasFilm is forcing him--and the other authors--to use and expand on this. Again, this goes back to what I was saying in a different thread (the Episode III teaser trailer thread...a link please?) that the authors are, now, basically being given the outlined and then told to fill in the gaps and piece it all together. Really, the only reason I think it feels as though Zahn is making his own Star Wars is because that is what he is more-or-less being forced to do. I mean, Thrawn wasn't meant to be nearly as popular as he became, yet LucasFilm managed to have Zahn bring back that particular persona in the Hand of Thrawn duology. The profit potential from the fans is there, and a name like Timothy Zahn simply makes best sellers. I mean, really, when Thrawn made the off-hand comment in Heir to the Empire about the Outbound Flight, I very much doubt he meant for Obi-Wan and Anakin to be involved, much less having it be a bunch of Dreadnaughts and everything else is has become. I'm sure he wanted it to remain jsut as mystical and mysterious as the Clone Wars were to all of us before the prequels came out--just another part of the galaxy's VAST history. I would have liked to have not seen the Outbound Flight fleshed out because you lose that mystery--just like the Clone Wars--but on the other hand, I--like many of you--are curious to see and read it. Now, answer this, would you prefer to have Timothy Zahn write the story of the Outbound Flight Project or have another Darksaber/Truce of Bakura? But perhaps I'm a little to zealous when it comes to Timothy Zahn....

According to something I read recently, red lightsabers do not necessarily equate a Sith. According to that particular source, Leia had a red-bladed lightsaber at some point in time, which Luke made for her.

Wow, I haven't heard anything so intelligent in these forums since...um...maybe...well, I haven't heard something this intlligent in a long time...a long time.... Basically, I think that Trej's view is correct and that is that the EU has basically spun out of control to become it's own Star Wars. It barely ties with the original movies, but no longer has to. As a matter of fact, if you read the EU novels, you can quite easily pretend it's a "different Star Wars"--as a friend of mine, Eddie, put it concerning the prequel episodes--and it will be enjoyable. A better example, take the movie Troy. As a movie, it was great, but as movie version of Homer's Illiad...well...it sucked. And as far as being historically accurate...well, don't get me started.... But, if you take it for what it is (a cinematic production, a HOLLYWOOD movie) and/or pretend it's about "another Trojan War"--again, my friend, Eddie's words--then you can quite possibly enjoy it. So to those who don't like the EU, I'm with you and I understand you. I mean, who could have ever thought a handfull of young-apprentice-student-Jedi-trainees-in-training could fling a flotilla of Star Destroyers across a planetary system? Well, apparently Kevin J. Anderson thought so and made it quite clear in Darksaber...but then again, don't anyone forget that everything that is in the EU has been approved--and many times outlined--by LucasFilm and George Lucas! It's not entirely the author's fault! As a matter of fact, I think the only novels in the EU that were not outlined by LucasFilm where the original Thrawn trilogy (Heir to the Empire, Dark Force Rising, and The Last Command), and even then, Timothy Zahn had to make some changes LucasFilm and Lucas didn't want. In the end, I don't think we should be too overly critical of the EU...I mean, it wasn't written by Lucas (thank goodness!) and it will never, ever be Star Wars 1977 (i.e. A New Hope). The EU is comprised of many different visions of what Star Wars means to different people. For goodness sake, by some the Force is considered a real religion (I believe Canada had a fair amount of people who listed their religion as 'the Force')! What nonesense, yet it exists. As fans, perhaps rather than criticize--though we quite certainly have the right to do so, and I believe we should use that right--we should take what is given to us. If we don't like it, that's cool, I mean, I didn't always like what I got Christmas (never did I get that PowerWheel I always wanted...always the underwear...so much underwear!), but I waited patiently until either A) I got it, B) I grew out of it, or C) I purchased it myself. SPOILERS AHEAD I suppose I just feel bad for authors because when we, as fans, critisize their work, many of them feel bad--especially those who write in Star Wars. I mean, look at Salvatore, LucasFilm and the NJO editors told him to kill Chewbacca in Vector Prime and almost immediatley he said, "Never mind, get someone else." Quite simply, he didn't want to be known as the one who killed that lovable hairball, yet he eventually took it...and you know what happened? People whined and cried and moaned over it, and then someone even went so far as send him a death threat! Didn't believe the EU had got out of control? Think again. The guy doesn't deserve it, either, he was just told: "Write this, this, and this, include this, this, and this, don't do this, this, and this, and you fill in the blanks inbetween", yet he's the one who takes all the heat for anything in the novel. Additionally, imagine you're sitting at work (let's say a stereotypical job in a cubicle) and someone stood behind you all day saying, "Hey, everyone! Look at what a terrible job Henry is doing today at his job! Look at how badly he types! And have you seen those memos?! Woowee, you would have thought an idiot wrote them! It's crap, Henry, crap, crap, crap, and you should just quit your job because you suck at it!" Maybe that's a tad extreme, but that's how--according to one author--it feels. I realize that with anything there is inherent critisism (sorry, I can't spell tonight), but at the same time there is very little that can be done. As Jahled said, most of these novels are just to make some extra money off an already million-dollar franchise, but it's something, you know? No more soap-box for me.

Vangelis also did the soundtrack to Alexander, the movie everyone hated because two guys showed some emotion towards each other and, coupled with the stigma put on ancient-period by Troy, it was given a bad rep it did not deserve. But enough about my opinion. Now playing: Led Zeppelin - Stairway to Heaven ...sometimes I wonder if I listen to anything else...or if I even want to.

Sometimes I have difficulting understanding you, Jahled, but I got it this time. That's true, though, what with Jedi throwing Star Destroyers across the galaxy in the EU.

What was your favourite part?

I noticed he had downloaded instructions for the Nebulon-B-class, but none for the Victory-class, Strike-class, or Carrack-class.

I know, heh-heh, I was just playing around.

A great song! Led Zeppelin - Good Times, Bad Times

Precisley! Though I didn't have the British example in mind (call it ignorance on my part), I was going to site the fact that the pay grades of O-3 and O-4 in the USA's Armed Forces are the two pay grade levels at which officers stay the longest. Within those two seperate rank levels, there are three to four inner pay levels. For instance, an O-3 (Captain in the Army, Lieutenant in the Navy) on his record is called "Captain" (Army) until he or she passes the first two inner pay levels, at which time his record indicates that he or she is now known as a "Senior Captain". Again, it's not an official "rank", but it's a level of ranking that coincides with a different major level of pay. The same idea applies to the table where one could have a more senior level of any given rank as compared to a lesser one. Make sense?

I think I've seen that before. Try a Google Image search for 'grand admiral'...you'll be interested by some of the cool...and strange things it'll turn up....

That's why I believe they should try to cram (I know that sounds bad, but bear with me) an entire trilogy or so of books into one 50 epsiode series. For instance, the first four books of the X-Wing series. With 50 episodes you have enough room to keep the characters and basic storyline in tact while still having to cut out enough that it isn't simply a boring retelling of the novel stories (even one must realize that a TV show is made to be a TV show, and simply employing it to retell a story would be expensive, boring, and uncreative). So I think there should be the following 50 episode series: -Star Wars: Rogue Squadron (tells the story of the capture of Coruscant and the subsequent hunt for Ysanne Isard)-Star Wars: Wraith Squadron (time-wise, picks up after 'Rogue Squadron' with the hunt for Zsinj) And so forth. Also, I don't think a series with many of the main characters will work real well, simply because it would be difficult for many people to deal (and want to deal) with having a cast an older Luke (but not as old as Mark Hamill now), older Leia, and older Han. So, really, I think a Star Wars television show would prosper better from being a bunch of "side-story" series that are within the Star Wars universe, but do not include a whole bunch of main characters from the movies...but maybe that's just my take.... Yes, another reason why a series would never be made. I mean, let's face it, there may be a lot of EU fans out there, but not enough to spark a television hit series, much less make any profit. Unless they could make a Star Wars television show that would appeal to all audiences (including non-fans and...kids ), then it probably won't ever happen. Agreed.

I knew someone would say something, but no worries, dude, I didn't mean any harm. I was only making fun of those people who say they're Irish, yet they've related through their cousin's uncle's brother's aunt's grandfather's sheep herder...it was meant as a joke and not to be offensive to real Irish folks. EDIT: After some consideration, I thought I would clear something up. I have nothing against the Irish and actually admire them. Additionally, the comment I made above was to make fun of the people who claim they are Irish, but are not whatsoever, it was in no way meant against any who is Irish. Further, when I talked about how people get into drunken brawls and then blame it on the Irish, I was ridiculing people I know who are A) Not Irish, B) Go out and drink a TONNE because of St. Patrick's Day, C) Get into druken brawls or car accidents, and D) Blame their stupidity on the Irish, an unwarranted blame I do not agree with in any way. The post I made above was simply to ridicule those people who use St. Patrick's Day as an excuse to be stupid, not to ridicule the Irish or Irish-related. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

A song by David Bowie about an astronaut who goes to Mars...Major Tom?

You don't know me? I just thought that his member avatar was a tad wider then normal....

I don't know, though, if turning to the authors of the novels would be a good idea. No offense to them, but sometimes novelists aren't very good at making their novels into screenplays (they're usually quite sensitive about what to leave in what to take out), but if they could pull it off, it would be great. I mean, look at Michael Crichton: not only can he write good novels, but he also created ER and wrote the screenplays for many movies (as well as directed many).

Another idea for the Rank Table's many levels is the idea of major pay levels. That each level is a new major level of pay (minor levels of pays within each level), so for instance [2,4] and [2,3] would be lower major pay levels of Sub-Lieutenant ([2,2]). Each level, though, also has it's own theoretical insignia to correspond with the pay level and, as needed, a rank is created for each level (as discussed earlier). A rather sloppily typed up theory, but a sound one, I believe...? This doesn't change anything said above, it simply adds to it.

I've only seen SG-1 once, so I can't say I have a very good perspective of it, but I agree that having unlimited episodes isn't necessarily bad (look at Law & Order), but these are a few isolated shows. I can't say that I have any statistical data to back the idea that unlimited episodes aren't for the most part very good, but I can say that the majority of Japanese TV shows earn a higher rating, more money, and more popularity (proportionally) as compared to unlimited-episode shows. Additionally, by having a few epsiodes and then having the storyline hang until the sequel series drives the market crazy. I mean, Star Wars fans would be crawling the walls like a rabbit without a mate in Spring, waiting for the sequel series! Perhaps I'm looking at it too much from a money-making perspective, but I think if LucasFilm decides to make a Star Wars TV series, they'll be interested in making quite a bit of profit (think of how well the DVDs will sell as the market goes nuts between the series) at minimal cost (minimal cost as compared to unlimited episodes). Additonally, look how well the Clone Wars shorts did, and those were itty-bitty and sparse & far-between. I'm jsut trying to look at it from the perspective LucasFilm, a corporation, will probably look at it....

Again, if there actually are Star Wars movies in the future, I believe LucasFilm will respect GL's wishes...until he dies, then the contract will go out to some other director and badda-bing more SW! EDIT: By the way, I was recently thinking about the prospect of a Star Wars television show and came to the conclusion that if there is a show made, it will be a terrible failure because of USA-style television shows. Basically, the theory behind USA television shows are to make as many episodes as possible (even if new ideas don't come) until ratings drop and the show is canceled, in which case if the show had a good run, it will have reruns and annoy the hell out of people watching Nick@Nite. I believe that if Star Wars is to be successful as a television show, the show would have to follow the Japanese television show model, that is, have a set amount of episodes and stick to it. For instance, most shows in Japan have anywhere from 40-50 episodes (give or take a few epsiodes) and that's it for that series. That way a series can get put down, developed, and then closed without crappy rehashes of the same storylines. Then, if that show is successful, the production company will give permission for another 40-50 episodes, but not as a second run of the original series, but instead as a sequel TV series, this way the repeat of ideas are few and far between and fresh ideas are continuously on the rise. I mean, really, would you want to see a the X-Wing Series ruined by 1000 episodes that were original for only the first 100? I think it would be great, then (with a good director, production staff, and whatnot) to see the first series be the Stackpole X-Wing (Rogue Squadron) series and the second series be the Allston X-Wing (Wraith Squadron) series. 50 epsiodes for Rogue Squadron and 50 epsiodes for Wraith Squadron, that way the ideas flow and the series are fleshed-out without too much crap but not lacking detail. Good idea?

Actually, I have taken that picture (without permission, though ) and modified it a tad so as to not include the black pupils. You can see it if you follow the link to "my website" in my profile, though I take no credit for the image and give full credit to whomever made it. Well, so you won't have to go to "my website", here's a direct link to the image. Again, I take no credit for the image and give 100% credit to whomever is the original artist. EDIT: This same guy made an image of Grand Admiral Declann and one of my favorite's Grand Admiral Grant. Here's a link to a Google page with the two images on it, plus a few of his others, too.

Actually, you may want to follow LaForge's advice and possibly down-size your avatar (it's a little wide).

Yes! My influence is spreading! Paul van Dyke - Global