jedi_consulor

Sounds like a cool Mod as always EAWCommander - If you can try to keep your mod as one creation though - build on what you have learned. ;D he he he. Instead of separate individual mods - people will always look forward to the next version that way too

Sorry I did take the topic by the way side a bit. I just wanted to make a point about 'ownership' and rights to the files. I know it's not on topic with what we need to do about the problem itself. You brought up an interesting point too about infringing content. This is true I guess under the EULA ? but Lucas Film have never attempted to stop EAW Modding yet to this date even so. But its true what you said they could wipe us all out in one go over this. True, My point was on the consensus, that the author of the work could make a faulty conversion into ALO format and damage a mod leading them to being flamed, attacked, even sued. But I reiterate the fact I was also referring to the rights of the work to by pointing out the 'ownership' and authorship of the work. All this is off topic I know, I just side tracked to try and point this out however. Well I for one don't have and never have any of your model's in a converted form into ALO format. That I have converted myself. It's irrelevant to me who owns anything really at all ! - and probably irrelevant to the original topic you wanted to discuss. But sure I think they who have not given you credit for your hard work and are lobbing out new warlords models off the production line for their mods with no care to give credit - would be a 'greedy bastard' LOL .. I won't go off topic any further on this anyway I just said want I wanted to point out about people's rights as an Author. Well have I ever read the read me files in these mods - well a good few of them. I think I did recall some of them actually giving credit - but I don't recall which ones they were I think there could be more NOT giving credit than anything else. I had a look at a few and I have to say most of the mods I have downloaded don't have a readme file - either I have lost it or it must not of come with one ? - another mod I have by a few German teams don't have any credits at all to evile jedi for his source's for the models in the first place which should have at least been mentioned. OK bringing this back on topic out of respect for Evile Jedi's last post I had an idea; What if that if you find people not giving credit to Evile Jedi for his work - that he just simply removes permission for them to use that model ? Perhaps there should be an acceptable user policy on how they can be used in mods ? all I can think right now for that part at least about not getting the credit for your work. About mass conversions - which could be poor quality and be even worse being released like that to people - perhaps they should be vetted, tested and analysed before being made available to people.

@Kel - you misunderstand me I think : I am not disrespectful - it's about legality. An ALO file converted by your mod team or any other mod team or person automatically owns that model that they created. OK what I am saying here is I write this post to you all on here,automatically by default I am the owner of the post - it was my responsibility that I wrote this post. So for example if I copy some ones else's post and add some thing to it - the owner ship of the post belong's to me and I am responsible for the content of that post and the stuff I copied to it. - It would be then down to me to add credits to the post to say where I got that information from. If I don't it can be classified as either one of things that could be illegal. so if that being the case - whether or not I have the authority to make that post with that persons content I used and copied from another post - I am the Author of that post and it belongs to that person. This is in legal terms the person who is responsible for the post. Summary: 1) Evile Jedi is the Author of the Warlords Models he retains all rights to the models and can do what he like with them - as Kel said even remove permission to have them used. 2) However in legal terms you must understand that automatically in LAW the person who make's some thing and distributes it to a public domain is by definition the 'Author' They are by the way the Author of the 'ALO' file NOT the original source files. It is on the Modding group to give credit to evile jedi for using his 'unconverted' model(s) I feel the same as most of you that its a real shame no one (or many people) have bothered to give credit to Evile Jedi for his work - just by putting a note in their read me files. This is NOT about disrespect - so don't think I intended that to be so. In legal terms however you have to understand the guy who published and made that model or what ever else it is in the world is automatically the 'Author' as required lawfully for legal reasons. Example : Some one makes a model, (converts to ALO format) releases it to the world, -it then turns out the game is now buggy and the guy can't play his game any more. The guy wants to sue some one for it, - who does he then Sue ? - Evile Jedi - well he's the 'Author' of the model right ? - or is it the guy who did the conversion to ALO format - that now crashes this guys game. IS he not also the author ? The Mod team that did the faulty converted ALO file is the 'Author' of the model because they converted it to ALO format. NOT Evile Jedi who is only the 'Author' of the source files of the models that were used. I am not disputing Evile Jedi's Authorship here please read what I have said carefully. I am stating that in legal terms anyone who publishes ANYTHING in the world - on the Internet - or any where else is in law the 'Author' YOU are responsible for it - not anyone else. - Or would you just go and blame Evile Jedi - if some thing goes wrong and people would like to Sue you ? Kel for the most part I agree with what your saying on this subject on Evile Jedi not getting the credit he deserves - just please bear in mind we are all subject to Law's even here online as I state above.

Think you should upload this to megaupload.com or rapidshare.com too maybe

hmm yes VSD I should be like that 'With' Concussion missiles I agree with D803 you should put an VSD II in the game with the Ion Cannons

Well I have said - and tried to point this out a few times on the forum. Not in so many words as yours but I basically meant the same thing. So I think what you say is quite true. I prefer XML coding and have done this for a good few years now - its what I am used to. I just don't have the time - or interest in to seriously learn about modeling. I think you hit the nail on the head. That's the main problem - If the community can't work together to coordinate, and make sure things are not being duplicated - then how do you expect to control the quality of mods ? They will be copies of each other with the same units generally because the community can't work together to make sure they can't. I think a Mod is not just about the ART though, its a part of the parcel, a mod needs good XML coding as well to back up the ART in the game and Vice versa. Warlords is not bad - just been over used in too many mods. This could have been controlled if the community had worked together to stop duplications. There is a general lack of cooperation, respect, and good faith among mod teams JMO. Otherwise if there had been we would not be in this situation ? No one has ever said any of the models were by Keeper of the Faith. Its a miss quote.. Keeper of the Faith just as the other guys mentioned above were the converters of the models. It plainly says on EAW Files where Keepers conversions are concerned that it says 'Model by Evile Jedi' to some effect it clearly gives credit to Evile Jedi. In the past when referring to Keepers Models - or anyone else's - people as I do I am sure generally refer to the guy 'WHO CONVERTED THEM or TEAM who converted them. To read into some thing else is just an assumption and probably misunderstood. ( I am not attacking you Kel) however I have to point out I think you have misunderstood the way people have actually said what they did. I can understand how and why you thought it may of been said like that however - I just don't think its the actual case. KOF's conversions were great. I think if the community had hired this guy to do all the Evile Jedi conversions for all the mod groups that required a model in the first place, and NOT several dozen different - often poor quality conversions by the part of others on the community - then we would NOT have had a flood of different Warlords Models being converted - or mass conversions being done by 'Tom, Dick or Harry'. It could have been controlled - people working with one - GOOD proven excellent modeler who can do faithful conversions that would have been as good as the units in the default game,. Made available to people who needed that unit for their mod. Control's could have been put in place to prevent duplications. That fact is though 10 mods can all have the same models in it though, not all 10 mods will play the same however. Fact is this comes down to the XML coding and how people want their mod to play out. When people have been referring to Models by KOF, AGD, CIS ETC. They generally refer to their model they have released as part of their mod or as a free model to the community. If this is the case it can be argued that the 'Intellectual' property of the model belongs to Evile Jedi. HOWEVER,. The conversion the model referred to as 'KOFs' CIS, AGD's models when people refer to them as such can be true also in the fact that the Object file was converted into ALO format. The property of the ALO file belongs to the person who made it, therefore its 'their' model as they created the 'ALO' file format for that Model that was created by Evile Jedi. Distinction between the Intellectual author - the converter and the property rights of the the team or person who converted the model should be appreciated and understood in any credits given. Evile Jedi has the Intellectual rights to the models they are HIS. The ALO converted files however are the property of the person who made them. You can argue therefore, that referring to 'KOF's, CIS or AGD's' model could be then a reference to the models they have converted - or made into ALO format from another. Summary 1) Evile Jedi is the Intellectual Author of the 'Warlords' Models This was in a non 'ALO' EAW format. 2) The conversions of the Models into 'ALO' format are the property of the mod team or 'Author' of the Converted file. 3) It can be argued Evile Jedi is NOT the author of the converted ALO file - the model that has been converted into ALO format. SO it could be acceptable to refer to the model or THAT model from that mod team or person who released it. Because they are technically the actual Author of that ALO file NOT the original Object file format that DOES belong to Evile Jedi. Sorry for the long post but I wanted to outline the confusion over this problem when people refer to some ones models who ever actually made them.

Yes a screen shot would be a good idea

I hope some one will do that for you, sadly there are people on these forums that have the attitude that if you want a unit - go make it yourself type mentality. Good luck finding some one to share their model though - I think we do need help with more new groundunits for EAW OBVIOUSLY not everyone can make them - I have already heard it can be tricky animating them too. I can't see it happening though what with people who can make groundunits probably already tied up in projects for mod teams. It would be a nice thing though if people could share new groundunits once in a while.

Actually no he, doesn't ? - he said its for a private mod he's doing for himself .. Why on earth would you need to give credit to a private mod no one else uses !

LOL its porting - I know - its only private use though as far as this is concerned. I am unaware that it would be illegal to do that for private use. Even so, the code I used isn't from FOC and the model is already in FOC if this code was to be adapted for FOC use. It was just an example of how to get some thing like this working in FOC I think it's better doing it this way rather than have several Level 6 Space Stations all DSII's - be a nightmare to fight against an AI that could build these !

I have the Death Star II working in the original EAW game using the model and textures from the FOC version http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e99/drone_pilot/DSII_EAW.jpg I think with out much problem the same code could be adapted to work in FOC too. I think this is the best way of using the DS II myself in either game. I don't like the idea of doing it as a level 6 station because it means the DS II would be buildable at any level 6 capable planet. That would be a nightmare to play against.!

Works great Mike - thanks for those additions we asked for

Thanks - I'm downloading it now

Well that would be a thing.. Don't you get sick of the amount of space units that are requested ? - I mean I ask this to everyone talking in this topic ? I'd like that AT PT unit finished off that Wildcat was working on a while ago for example. :-\

Yes I have seen them - I have to say there are a few request's for models that are not in the Warlords packs. I wanted the AT PT - no one ever completed it. I was sad about that it was my favourite Force Commander unit in that old game. But oh well..

I did the Level 6 Space Station for Skirmish only - there didn't seem to be a way of making it work in GC mode. This was for the original Empire AT War But yes you should be able to code a Level 6 station for skirmish mode and use the DS II stuff for it. Just thinking about what your saying.. 1) OK well you probably right that the AI isn't bothering to build a Level 5 station - thats more of an AI flaw in the developers coding - that could be other wise tweaked up in custom FOC mods ? 2) I doubt you will be able to get a Level 6 Space Station to work in GC - I tried it with the original game - doesn't even show on the build tabs for me. 3) YES There may actually be a way of coding the DSII as a unique style unit - buildable once, at any specfic location you decide to choose. I would check out Avengers CIS Mod for idea's on how to do this - he has a working Death Star he call's the Death Star II in his mod. Even so the Death Star is buildable in GC in his game and can move and fire at stuff on the map. So I'd check out the CIS Mod for idea's on that. I like this idea too if can be done..? But I doubt you'd be able to get a level 6 station buildable in GC - but It would be great if some one can find a way of doing it. Otherwise I'd say CIS's DS II maybe the only other way. I think disabling Hyperspace on the DS II would be appropriate too if you did it his way. (Think Avengers version can use Hyperspace) which it shouldn't really

well, I like the code for the Death Star II - however doesn't also mean that for every planet that can build a Level 5 Space Station - you will be in fact be building multiple Death Star II Stations ? - downside would be if your playing the rebel faction or whom ever, your going to be faced with the AI building Death Star II Stations at these planets. Its the only downside I see to this, are you sure there isn't another way of coding the DS II to be a unique space unit - buildable once at selected locations ? without having to replace space station code ? You could actually get the DS II buildable in skirmish just by adding a new skirmish space station level. I did that with my own game (non FOC) adding a level 6 station to skirmish. I would think you can do the same with the DS II and just have the DS II just buidlable as a unique space unit in GC mode. As mentioned above..

You need to get a copy of MTD Edit - and use that to extract the icons from Avengers MTD Commandbar file then insert the extracted TGA file into your own MTD Commandbar file. MTD Edit will help you do that. You'll find the Commandbar stuff in the textures folder for the mod your doing yourself. I'd recommend using MTD Edit 1.1 or 1.2 for extracting and inserting new TGA icon's into your commandbar file. You'll find a topic by Mike.nl for links to the dowloads page for these tools you will need.

Thats also a good point - I hadn't thought of - and another reason WHY people Can't make models the way has been complained about by some. Its a pity you gave up on your mod even so. AGD was a bit of a disaster as far as those points are concerned. I was aware of the amount of problems they had in their mod. But at least there are still some good mods available such as Bailkights mod's and CIS and perhaps maybe SAU 3.0 is quite good I thought. I don't think we need a 100 mods in the community anyway - we just need a few good ones that have the quality and the clean coding that will play with out errors on anyones PC. Anyway thats all I have for now on this. I support the Warlords conversions - if people want to do them and learn how to make the best possible conversion I don't see the harm in that. If people make bad quality ones - well it doesn't matter either - people have a right to learn from their mistakes and try again. If its on a Trial Version - then its more obvious why the model is bad quality. - Just not enough time on a trial copy to do a good conversion maybe ? - especially if your learning from scratch.

well your actually making an assumption that I don't know what 3D Max is used for in the first place ? I KNOW its for 3D Modelling and I KNOW you can make model's with it. Please don't go assuming things I am bright enough to know what a Software program does when I look at it. I Don't need some thing obvious to be spelt out to me - in fact, I stated earlier if you lot want people to learn to make their own model's then you should attempt to actually teach people to do it first, before making demand's on people expectations. But I think your point of view is sadly one dimensional - you think people don't create models because - people rather just convert. Maybe you have a point HOWEVER, you don't take into account the other aspects of this. 1) People can't create a their own models because - 'basically' they can't - they are not good at creating a model - yes its like art - you make a drawing and paint it. Not everyone is good at it. 2) Some people don't have the time to get involved with big projects - so can't offer the community a fresh model. 3) Some models are poor quality from the conversions from the Warlords Pack, HOWEVER. I put this down to a learning experience -rather than laziness. Some people may lack the skill to even convert but at least they are trying to learn some thing new. That in life is a good thing and shouldn't be ridiculed as being bad for a community that wants and needs new fresh models and coding for different projects all the time. Your basically ridiculing people because of your belief that you think people rather just convert models rather than go and make their own - because of the work involved. If this was even the case - so what ? As I SAID people have their own lives to live. I don't spend all day and night at my computer working on XML code and I doubt some people can find the time to do that with models either. Its various reasons and it IS also an obvious fact you can't see. People have school, Work, Family things and a social life. Modeling won't suit everyone - you have to have the passion to want to create a work of art and see it through to the end. Not everyone either has the time to do that or can do it for any of the above reasons. Perhaps the reasons your looking for is the fact not many people have a full version of 3D Max Software and thats the reason for the lack of fresh / new models in the community ? A 30 day Trial copy barely would give enough time for some one to do that and then convert it to ALO. Taking into account they have to be a skilled artist in the first place.

But surely this is a matter of choice ? - Also the fact that a good percentage of the people on this forum are Teenagers. - Just how many of them can afford a copy of 3D Max Software.? If I choose not to make models - it doesn't necessarily mean I'm lazy or he's lazy - I mean maybe he is - or maybe it's because he either can't afford to buy a copy of 3D Max - or maybe his life is too busy (Like work) and family issues that take the time off a person - so they don't have time to make a model. Making a good model I trust and believe takes time to do. Especially if it is to be as good as evile jedi's models. People are not necessarily 'lazy' there are many different factors to take into account for why a person chooses to make a model or not. I have to dissagree 'respectfully' of course to your suggestion that the in flux of these conversions are killing the community. On the other hand - personally I don't want several dozen versions of a model floating around the community, bad quality needs to be filtered out - with out causing disrespect to people's learning curves. I believe people if they can should try there own conversions - and release them 'IF' they are good enough for public use. Its sad for me to say I haven't seen much of that. People if they are making models need to spend more time on learning how to do them professionally. I understand perhaps you also mean that the Warlords models are destroying 'creativity' in the community as people want to rather convert - than make there own model version up instead. I would agree on that part at least.. But I bet it took evile jedi a while to get those skills to make those models the way he did. But just how much time has this community got ? - that is before people will get bored of EAW altogether and move on. Those that can Teach. - For those of you in the community who can model and what ever else need to to pull together and post up some good tutorials on how to do these things if you want more people to follow you in the community to make new models. Those that can't Follow. Think this makes my point

LOL OK no problem Still I knew what you were getting at cause I saw the original post too ! Oh and by the way this IS a good cause - I think we should all give support to it

Don't worry mate.. I knew what you meant - and there was nothing wrong in the way you said it either saving people 'from' cancer or 'fight' cancer it means the same to me either way. If your fighting against cancer - your naturally trying to save people 'from' it. :

They fly around in a 'flight' pattern - there is different formations you can use - but that's about it. You can't get them flying around in a scatter formation from what I have seen in the coding..?

Its a matter of opinion that is..care to elaborate ?