Gank

People should bear in mind that these new terror threats in the UK and US coincide with the build up against Iraq and may be just a propaganda attemp to bring a sceptical public into line, particularly in the UK. Then again they could be for real, most likely nobody will ever know but stationing troops in the airport isnt really going to stop anyone taking down a plane. Passenger jets are large slow and take a long time to climb out of range of a handheld sam. As for media hysteria, one of the main storys on Sky news last night was a report on gas masks selling out, in an interview a man working in an army surplus store said he'd had a grand total of 5 phonecalls looking for one.

Going back on topic here you guys should realise that taking out Iraq will not make the middle east a safer place nor will it lessen the threat of a terrorist attack. The simple fact that the only governments which support an attack on Iraq are Britian and a few of the poorest Nato states should show you this. All without the support of their people I might add. If you do go in without clear proof that saddam has illegal weapons then your going to lose the support of half of Nato and most of the UN. That could make facing down North Korea pretty dodgy. But like somebody pointed out Koreas got no oil.

What about the Eidilon then?, or the Sovereign or Eclipse?

All MC80s werent unique in size and shape, theres only 2 different hull types shown at the battle of endor, most likely this refers to the internal stuff. Home1s a mc85 anywhere i've seen it given a number, dont know where it came from though, and its 29 or 92 turbolaser batteries, not individual guns. Oh and I was concerned about replacing a well known canon ship with a non canon one, but we're going to have to add a few non canons if we want to fill out the slots.

Modified Crv and Frg aren't canon ships. Stock versions are more common, better known and look better. http://www.theforce.net/swtc/mcc.html If we're going to use a mon cal I'd rather use one from the films than xwa. No mediators or viscounts, Home 1 class could go in though. There is no way a yt1300 is able to carry any amount of troops. Medium transports 90m long while the action IV is 2-300 iirc. If you've got any other suggestions I'm all ears. Lose the ISDs? you cant be serious. And whats this eidilon? Dont see much point in putting in some one off ship when the empires got more than enough ships of the line to fill out the spots. 1 int is enough I'd say. Shuttle carries 20 troops, DX 40, they are not troop carriers, personnel only. Star Galleon and MSH methinks, to represent the empires superior lift capabilitys. And how do we implement the superlaser?

Umm 2k is the limit for the models being used in the TC, the Home 1s 50k iirc. I dont think theres an actual limit on what the engine can handle, though it does seem pretty basic.

Republic and Nebula appeared 8 and 11 years after endor iirc, so they slot into the timeline nicely. As for the rebels not having a ship that can face off an SSD they're not meant to at this time, nor should they in the near future. They have smaller cheaper ships which can gang up on an SSD. A MC90 is smaller than an ISD, same with the MC80b, there is no way either of them are going to stand up to a SSD.

Hmm by adding new texture entrys do you mean it could be possible to have more than one texture per ship? If so thats a lot more encouraging even if they are still in 8 colours.

Dont be making choices based on what models are out there and what aren't, most if not all xwa and swma models are unsuitable for our purposes and its far easier to start something fresh than mess with somebody elses work. Remember too its not just as simple as asking people can we use their work, it can takes weeks to track down the original modeller and even then they can still say no. In the case of the njo team nothing has been released yet and most likely wont be for a while so unless you've actually spoken with one of them we have no models for those ships. Anyways SD models are very straight forward, for the Nebula and Republic no references exist I think so we'll have to come up with something but Alleigence is a hangerless, upscaled ISD (2200m) and the enforcer is an Int minus grav-wells and I have models for both.

Check out this page for SSD length http://www.theforce.net/swtc/ssd5mile.html but this has been debated over and over elsewhere so please dont start argueing about it here. Anyways an Mc90 is 1200m long and no matter if the SSD is 8km, 12.7km or 17.6 km its still not going to beat it. Your logic doesnt make sense, the MC90 and MC80b were both the same size and were put in service at the same time, if an 80b could not defeat an SSD with the help of an 80a (same size but less advanced) then surely an MC90 is no match for an SSD? Anyways theres no way an 80b and 80a could take on a ship 6+1/2 times their size, it simply doesnt make sense.

MC90 take out an SSD? wtf? 90s a match for an ISD, SSD is the length of 11 ISDs. Gonna take a good few mon cals to knock one out. As for the Eclipse and Sov I wouldnt mind putting in one but the main strengths of these are their axial superlasers. Still they fit in with the timeline so I have no objections.

Ok myself and Jedi Igor discussed the rebel side and came up with a few ideas, modified the list above. Thoughts please.

I want to play with the ships that actually fought in the thrawn trilogy, not ones that appeared 20 years down the road. If the tc was set in the njo period and people wanted to included trade federation ships I'd be against that too. I've no problem with changing all the ships but most of the ships in the original line up are the ones that are mentioned in the thrawn trilogy books I have a number of poly chopping programs on my hd but reducing a 20k model to 2k is not as simple as it sounds. Most of the time your left with gaping mesh holes and polygons stretching off to infinity. They're simply not designed to cut things down that much. Fair enough on the asking permissions but its the first I've heard it mentioned and I was under the impression that we would be making the models ourselves, at least thats what I understood when jediigor asked me to take charge of the modelling part. What I meant by canon, quite simple: the Corellian Corvette and Nebulon B Frigate were in the films and the modified versions were not.

Fighters are stored as bitmaps in the tactical.dll, get the converter to convert them

The NJO ships dont really fit with the timeline, they're a good 20 years ahead of what we're basing this one. And while Terribly Mauled and Sean Bs models are very nice bear in mind they're made for Xwa and have a much higher polycount then what we're aiming for here. Same goes for JMs Dominator. Please remember that while their maybe models for every ship you mention that we have a polylimit of 2k and most of the models out there are higher than this, apart from the xwa ones. Also we cant go round ripping off models left right and centre, its considered bad form and can land us in trouble. As for the rest I like the idea of the Allegience, fits in with the timeline and theres also a vsd like version iirc. I'm not familiar with the eidolon though, do you have any links to a pic or model? Personally I'd rather see the stock corvette and frigate in their rather than the modified versions, its more canon. I dont really like the idea of 2 ints on each side, nor the imps using a bulk transport as they've got a good few specialised Imp only transports.

Mmmkay didnt know that about the rebellion engine but I tend to forget about fighters. Dont particularly like the Kwing myself but the xj is way way too far out. 1000 days is only 2 years which would fit in with the black fleet timeline iirc, xjs didnt appear until 20 years after thrawn trilogy. kwing does fit in with the timeline and its stats can be boosted to compensate for the lack of gunturret and plasma torpedos (euuch) Bear in mind too these are going to be 32*32 8 colour bitmaps so the look of them isnt really going to matter.

The Marauders the main cap ship of the Corporate Sector Authority. I dont recall it being in rebel hands in any book or comic and as such isnt a good ship to be giving to the rebel side imo. And remember they aren't the rebels anymore its the new republic with access to heavy shipyards and no real need to press any old ship into service anymore. In fact its the Imps who have a shortage of ships during the Thrawn trilogy -> Sluis Van

I know theres a shiplist in the other forum but as this is the forum where it should be I'd like to start a new one here. The thread in the cards forum is a bit cluttered to follow properly, here I can edit my post so anyone who wants to try a model can see clearly what ones we're going to need. And we are changing a lot, every model is going to be different but personally I'd rather see good looking classic SW ships then a hodge podge of ships from all over the place.

Ya the Kazon are in star trek, remember the kaloth now. As for the shiplist I'd like to get a list down in here so i know where i stand and anybody that wants to try a ship doesnt have to go dredging through other forums to find out whats going in. As for timeline you could probably drag a game out 10000 turns but any game I've every played all research was done a long long time before that. This tc is based on the Thrawn trilogy (unless i've missed something) 5 years after Endor and any research is most likely based on the 2-3 years following that. Nothing stopping us doing an NJO tc after but the 2 timelines should be left seperate imo. I doubt the DS can be dropped probably too much stuff hardcoded. Eclipse would be nice to put in its spot but I seriously doubt its possible. The models will be part of the TC so ya can play with them when its done

Well the main problem i can see with the yt1300 and Dx9 is that they're tiny and wouldnt be visible unless you zoomed in on them. Plus they have absolutly no combat value on their own and arent large enough to transport any amount of troops realisticly. So you'd be left with a ship thats only good for ferrying characters and spec-ops around. A waste of a slot imo. As for getting into the future i know what you mean but the only real options of advancing in ships are the very near; MC90, 80B, Alliegence, Dominator etc and the very far; Bothan AC, Mediator, Viscount etc. Btw I'm a stickler for canon, which is why the marauder doesnt appeal to me.

Dunno where you get the idea that torpedos can only be fired when shields are down, haven't seen or read anything which suggest that. Missile boats the most powerful bomber the imps have and really the only option for a second bomber for the imps imo. As for the kwing thrawn trilogy takes place 5 years after endor and the black fleet after that. NJO is another 20 years after that iirc so the kwings not really out of the timeline.

Venix's second list for rebs, and maybe switch the missile boat with the TIEdroid

Ok read through all this and some nice ideas in here but can we transfer it over to the modelling section please, sos i dont embarrass masel again Anyways just i responce to a few things, DX9 and YT1300 are fighter size and a waste of a slot imo, Bothan, Viscount and Nemesis are all from the yuzzan vong period, Eclipse and Sovvie uuuurgh super ships, Marauder corvette isn't really used by either side, CSA ship iirc and mod corvettes a pos. Katana fleet dreads should be in imo, and researchable too (ya gotta find them remember) just make them fairly cheap. And theres no real need for an equivelent ship on each side, that can be balanced with prices etc and isnt very canon anyways.

Urrgh suppose I should have come in here before I posted on the model forums. Bah

Ok so we have to sort out need to get something concrete down here before people start making stuff. I'm gonna throw down what I got in my head and you guys can pull it apart Rebel Cap ships: Corellian Gunship------same in books Corellian Corvette-----same Bulk Cruiser------------MC80 Liberty Class Nebulon frigate---------same in books Assault frigate----------same in books Dreadnaught-----------MC40a Carrier-----------------Bulk Cruiser Refitted to carriers during trilogy CC7700----------------Peregrine Class Modified Strike Cruiser CC9900----------------???? MC80-------------------Republic Star Destroyer Black fleet Crisis Liberator---------------Nebula Star Destroyer 11 years after Endor Dauntless--------------MC80b Mon Remonda Bulwark----------------MC90 Defiant Medium transport-----same Action IV---------------YT1300 or similar Imp Cap Ships Lancer-----------------same Strike------------------same Carrack----------------same Escort Carrier---------same Dread------------------Katana Fleet Dreadnaught Interdicter-------------Dominator Class Star Destroyer VSD I------------------maybe change? VSD II-----------------same ISD I-------------------maybe change ISD II------------------same SSD--------------------same Star Galleon-----------same Galleon-----------------like to drop, modular star hauler maybe? Assault transport------Shuttle or similar Death Star-------------probably have to leave this where it is. thats whats in my head anyways, basically most of its untouched, just redone. Dropping one of the isd and vsd variants would open a slot but I'm not sure what could go in their place. Gimme your thoughts anyways and we see what we end up with. i had an idea of putting Sluis van and bilbringi in 2 of the slots but not sure how that'll work out. Oh and Fighters CAN be changed too thanks to vakundok but the ones in there seem most appropriate to the timescale anyways.