List and Observations in BETA testing

[Planetkillerzz]

This is the best mod ever.

 

I will stress this is just initial post I will add the "why of fry" later as well as add all in-depth observations but its 05 AM so im gonna crash and edit later

To all of you who makes it happen i salute you. Nothing short of epic work.

So when I post below do not read it as me being bitchy. just observations

 

Mantis is still down right? because I went to the addy I got but nothing is happening yet?

 

Just making this so i can edit my own OP with list of features/ideas and bugs if thats ok.

I will add the Mantis items once I have done the list.

 

Observations:

 

- New Republic needs massive balance changes. The shield regeneration ability inherent in almost all Capital ships as well as some sub-caps is crazy overpowered in 1 on 1 fights combined with offering from basic to all the way up to the biggest super-capital that can chew out the SSD due to the very same shield regeneration. Non-cap ships with 18k+ shields is also madness.

- Empire needs an overhaul. Meant as the premier bad guys maybe with the exception on the Vong they lack severely in the "omg we are all going to die" opression factor. Theyr capital range is very small, very outdated, very underwhelming and its all (SSD+150 fleet cap) or nothing (lolol underpowered capitals)

- Republic (classic) seems pretty good to me at this juncture. Mean but can be taken out due to somewhat limited shields.

- Love the "extra planet" option. I play this option always now including with my multi-player friends.

- Build is stable. Back in the day I got mini dumps to no end, have not had any whatsoever since this BETA went out.

 

Bugs:

 

- Bothan Assault cruisers seems to not trigger their shield regen ability when they need to or rather consistently. Sometimes they do, sometimes they dont. This bug seems to affect most shield regen abilities across all ships who have them in New Republic fleets.

- When choosing the extra planets version of a map for this mod, the first "asteroid" class system you're given refuses to build LEV construction frigs to make upgrades like trade ports but all neutral later-to-be-conquered asteroids seems fine. So just the asteroid class you begin with only seems to have this bug. Not even extractors. It will Que them but they will never actually be built.

 

Question: Did the missile upgrade fixes get sorted yet? some gentleman was pointing out some wrong reference date between phased and actual missile uses?

 

Defence/Structures:

 

- Needs total overhaul. Woefully inadequate ATM. Massive gravity wells (which I love) but inferior engagement ranges, poor survivability combined with limited slots, massively overpowered Ion Cannons, etc, need total rework mechanics/stats wise.

- Not sure how the warp prohibitory defense structure is working currently but would be nice to know what the range is or if it is the entire system and while its fine it nukes antimatter etc I think hyper-space initiation slow-down is much better. Gives you and actual chance to destroy fleets who raid your system all the time

- Weird movement behavior when engaging Broadsides. They will keep going out of the gravity well if they're alone in an attempt to flee perusing vessels with your ships ending out in no where waaaay outside the gravity wells. Same goes with end-tier Republic capital. Its turn rates sometimes bugged and it ends up doing a massive U turn that sends it hurtling outside the gravity well before it returns in.

 

Wish-listing:

 

- Eclipse Super-Capital for Empire (cannot stress how epic this would be, would also give some much needed boost to whats roughly the biggest villain faction in the game.)

- Sovereign ^^ same as above. sex on hyperdrives!

Edited March 12, 2011 by Planetkillerzz

[NovaCameron]

Awww, no love for the planets...

 

Talk to eville about the ships. And the defenses are kinda non existant. They need to be reworked due to the planets. Structures in general do. Cost and hp in particular. They die waaay too easily. And are underpowered compared to ships. Don't worry, we'll figure it out. Or you can rework them yourself....

[Planetkillerzz]

Awww, no love for the planets...

 

Talk to eville about the ships. And the defenses are kinda non existant. They need to be reworked due to the planets. Structures in general do. Cost and hp in particular. They die waaay too easily. And are underpowered compared to ships. Don't worry, we'll figure it out. Or you can rework them yourself....

 

I wish I could I really do, Irony has it that I have a lot of spare time ATM but no programming skills :/

Wouldnt even know where to begin.

[NovaCameron]

Ok, I'll rework them once I'm done with my current reworking of the planets.

[Planetkillerzz]

Ok, I'll rework them once I'm done with my current reworking of the planets.

Love your work though^^ added my appreciation to my OP

[Evaders99]

There isn't really any programming skills needed. Sins editing is all text files.

 

Trust me, if you want to do something, just do it. I agree that a proper balance needs to be done, just no one has had time to do it. This why the unpolished stuff is still in beta for this long.

 

(Sorry, Eville is working on the Mantis page. It is still down)

[Lavo]

Before I go into replying, I have to say I love you so much for posting constructive criticism. This is really what's needed in order for us to spot bugs and balance things properly.

 

- New Republic needs massive balance changes. The shield regeneration ability inherent in almost all Capital ships as well as some sub-caps is crazy overpowered in 1 on 1 fights combined with offering from basic to all the way up to the biggest super-capital that can chew out the SSD due to the very same shield regeneration. Non-cap ships with 18k+ shields is also madness.

Part of the reason why NR ships have so much health is due to their tech tree, which puts an emphasis on shielding, rather than firepower. Though, I do entirely see and agree with what you say. For example, I've had an MC90 take on an MC80 Liberty (capital). Due to shield regen, neither of them ever died. However, the NR's super capital is supposed to be able to beat the SSD on head on combat, that is (in SW) what it was designed to do. However it's shield regen is rather... Massive.

 

- Empire needs an overhaul. Meant as the premier bad guys maybe with the exception on the Vong they lack severely in the "omg we are all going to die" opression factor. Theyr capital range is very small, very outdated, very underwhelming and its all (SSD+150 fleet cap) or nothing (lolol underpowered capitals)

Outdated? While I will agree that I don't like the ISD capitals very much, they are by no means underpowered. Oh wow, no wonder I didn't like them, their capitals suck. I'm going to get down to this soon.

 

- Republic (classic) seems pretty good to me at this juncture. Mean but can be taken out due to somewhat limited shields.

Their key is numbers. They actually tend to be one of the worst AIs, before the tech changes, were the worst AI by far. They're very fun to play as.

 

- Bothan Assault cruisers seems to not trigger their shield regen ability when they need to or rather consistently. Sometimes they do, sometimes they dont. This bug seems to affect most shield regen abilities across all ships who have them in New Republic fleets.

I've noticed this, it happens with all of the shield regen ships, it's an engine thing to my knowledge, that they don't fire them off until they take a certain amount of damage (when autocast is enabled). This is why, a few hours into the game, they tend to fire it off while they have more overall health, due to tech research.

 

- When choosing the extra planets version of a map for this mod, the first "asteroid" class system you're given refuses to build LEV construction frigs to make upgrades like trade ports but all neutral later-to-be-conquered asteroids seems fine. So just the asteroid class you begin with only seems to have this bug. Not even extractors. It will Que them but they will never actually be built.

Noticed this earlier this week, a very embarrassing error on my part. This, on my end, has since been fixed. It will be uploaded along with a handful of other small updates later tonight.

 

Question: Did the missile upgrade fixes get sorted yet? some gentleman was pointing out some wrong reference date between phased and actual missile uses?

I was the one who pointed this out, before I was staff, and it has indeed been fixed.

 

- Needs total overhaul. Woefully inadequate ATM. Massive gravity wells (which I love) but inferior engagement ranges, poor survivability combined with limited slots, massively overpowered Ion Cannons, etc, need total rework mechanics/stats wise.

The limited slots is a planet issue (see Nova, he did comment on your planets! ), and the main reason defenses are inadequate is the lack of star bases. When stations are added in, the limited slots will make a lot more sense, as they will add variety among planets. The lack of star bases is mainly due to having no models for them yet, and when I've attempt to put in stations (like the Tech's, or one based off of the Golan III model), there is some weird error popping up. The ion cannons... Well yeah they're kinda OP. Not really sure how to address them or deal with 'em however, as with the exception of human players, they are not spammed and thus are not unbalanced.

 

- Not sure how the warp prohibitory defense structure is working currently but would be nice to know what the range is or if it is the entire system and while its fine it nukes antimatter etc I think hyper-space initiation slow-down is much better. Gives you and actual chance to destroy fleets who raid your system all the time

If you hold the "alt" key, you can see the range of the maximum weapon of any ship and defense structure. For the Golan III, it's main guns have a range of 20000 and 15000, respectfully, pre-research and pre-ability changes. Unless you mean the hyperspace/jump blocker, which case I believe it is the whole system, however I'm not entirely sure as I don't know abilities well.

 

Same goes with end-tier Republic capital. Its turn rates sometimes bugged and it ends up doing a massive U turn that sends it hurtling outside the gravity well before it returns in.

I'm assuming you mean the Venator cruiser, in which case, this is due to it's "Intercept" ability. The ship acts very strangely in order to stay in what it thinks is a linear path, nothing that can truly be done about this. However, reducing the ship's rate of turn increase (due to Intercept) might help, though once again this is not my area of expertise.

 

Also, editing Sins only requires Notepad! At least, this is the case for SoGE, as all the coding files have already been converted from bin to txt. As for an overall balancing, I agree that a proper one is necessary. Though, as Evaders has said, nobody truly has the time for this. Balancing is further complicated since, soon after I joined the staff, I figured out how to code in real Ion Cannons, aka. ship weapons that only do shield damage.

[NovaCameron]

Ya, I'm not sure I'll get to structures... I just cracked the asteroid files so I'll be busy messing with those to get moons and other goodies. Planets still need to be completed. Resources have had a overhaul (much more spread out and you can find higher income roids. this is due to the massive metal/crystal requirements for planets. and adjusting ship prices up should be easier.). Stars will get a overhaul with new models and textures. Roids will also be redone.... *sigh* I just expanded my part of the mod to new heights. lol

[Lavo]

I wouldn't mod the crystal/metal accounts too high, as they actually work well, at least with SoGE. :v

[NovaCameron]

:/ I dunno. I find that I have lots of credits but not enough metal or crystal. I did axe most of the rates from the vanilla. With the massive increase in pops I feel that I didn't balance the roids right. Most planets will see a slight tweaking, but the resource planets are going to see a boost. It goes up to 24 for roids. most lvl 5 planets will see a 12-18 roid count. rates so from .1-.8. remember allegiance and upkeep will take huge bites out of these. Plus i can adjust the income rates in the gameplay file so players can choose how fast.

 

I just see that it is hard to upgrade the larger planets unduly. Though I may be wrong... i just feel that there should be a boost to metal and crystal rates on the resource planets. They are very fragile and take 8 credits a sec to run I just think they should be worth it.... and it is always easier to reprice the ships...

 

I'm also thinking of adding a structure build time/cost hit to the roids and a larger one to the lvl 5s so that the influx of roids is offset in this catagory somewhat.

[Lavo]

:/ I dunno. I find that I have lots of credits but not enough metal or crystal.

In my last game, I had the opposite. Depends on the map tbh.

I did axe most of the rates from the vanilla. With the massive increase in pops I feel that I didn't balance the roids right. Most planets will see a slight tweaking, but the resource planets are going to see a boost. It goes up to 24 for roids. most lvl 5 planets will see a 12-18 roid count. rates so from .1-.8. remember allegiance and upkeep will take huge bites out of these. Plus i can adjust the income rates in the gameplay file so players can choose how fast.

That's a lot of resources. o_o

 

I just see that it is hard to upgrade the larger planets unduly. Though I may be wrong... i just feel that there should be a boost to metal and crystal rates on the resource planets. They are very fragile and take 8 credits a sec to run I just think they should be worth it.... and it is always easier to reprice the ships...

I've found it's hard to upgrade the lower tech planets (like the Volcanics) than the higher pop planets. The high pop upgrades are expensive yes, but they are very worth the investment, as you can literally play a whole game based off of one or two of those planets.

 

I'm also thinking of adding a structure build time/cost hit to the roids and a larger one to the lvl 5s so that the influx of roids is offset in this catagory somewhat.

Might work, though, I find the 'roids are fine in terms of cost. The main thing is that it pwns the AI, rather than a human player. I love 'roids and Crystal planets, the resources are def. worth the hit in income.

[NovaCameron]

mmm, ok. I won't expand the roid scale then. Was a pain anyway... Now I can move on to more awesome things like suns, clouds, and finishing up those last planets.

[Planetkillerzz]

Thanks for the step-by-step replies and the fixes you already put in. Epic win.

 

Since people keep saying "all you need is notepad" I would love a quick "how to" and you will just have bagged a limitless pit of time (how sad is that?)

As I said and meant, I do want to help with the tedious stuff I just dont know where to begin or how to. Tell me what notepad file I should open and what to change and any tips and ill jump all over it.

 

As to the Republic omment, I should prob have mentioned all of my observations are multiplayer based sometimes with us against AI however.

I find that in multiplayer Republic is some mean ladies, not overpowered but mean. I just wanted to reflect that I thought they were a lot more balanced than the Empire was when we play.

 

The Empire reference is as follows:

Using Republic as an example they got something for all tiers

Praetor is like a mini SSD with massive firepower when its leveled up and takes 1/3 the tactical slots of the SSD so its much more flexible and if you make the same number of them as ssd´s in terms of pop cap they're insane. Thats 3300+ firepower, more shields combined, more tactical options (to spread out) for the price of one ssd.

For the non SSD Empire has, theyre pretty underpowered. Again to use Republic as an example the jedi cap gets some 300+ firepower and more shields than any of the two "vanilla" caps empires got. Abilities aside my observation be it agreeable or not is that I feel that nothing short of the SSD makes Empire shine.

In fact they seem kinda meh.

So in the spirit of being productive is there maybe 1 capital ship that could make its way in at some time between the 2 low tiers and the extreme other end being SSD? something with teeth but not all out domination that had more shields than the lower tiers and a bit more firepower? I mean some new republic cruisers are tougher than the empire caps. Seems just odd to me.

 

Anyways observations only so please dont think im ragging on your skills

 

It is awesum.

[Evaders99]

I would read the stuff here: http://soase.weebly.com/modding.html

 

You already have all the SOGE files in text through the beta, so you can pretty much edit anything. If you need to test or submit changes, send out a patch.

Lavo and NovaCameron are the only ones making active changes, so I would review things with them.

 

If your changes are well-received and needed for the mod, you may be given access to checkin changes to our repository directly.

 

What ship for the Empire would fit that role? Certainly not the Eclipse. I can't think of anything they are really missing, Pellaeon-class during the Legacy era would be the only one (which I wouldn't include in the mod right now either)

[NovaCameron]

Where's Eville? I need him to make models... I want structures and civilian ships and shipyards, and all sorts of JUNK to have floating around planets.

[wbino]

Suddenly my first Cap ships NR cost nothing to make. I tried the svn update and got an error, couldnt be connected?

[NovaCameron]

Ya... the server seems to be down... :/

[Planetkillerzz]

I would read the stuff here: http://soase.weebly.com/modding.html

 

You already have all the SOGE files in text through the beta, so you can pretty much edit anything. If you need to test or submit changes, send out a patch.

Lavo and NovaCameron are the only ones making active changes, so I would review things with them.

 

If your changes are well-received and needed for the mod, you may be given access to checkin changes to our repository directly.

 

What ship for the Empire would fit that role? Certainly not the Eclipse. I can't think of anything they are really missing, Pellaeon-class during the Legacy era would be the only one (which I wouldn't include in the mod right now either)

 

I do not honestly know what class is canon and therefore appropriate. No, definitely not the Eclipse.

I do not know what you want or do not want. I just submit my findings here for feedback considerations. How you act or do not act on it is entirely up to you, but I stand by the previous statement that Empire seems to come up short unless we talk about the SSD. I am just advocating an in-between.

 

Ya... the server seems to be down... :/

 

Ahh explains why it aint working then I thought I had somehow borked the SVN update that was released.

[Lavo]

Since people keep saying "all you need is notepad" I would love a quick "how to" and you will just have bagged a limitless pit of time (how sad is that?)

As I said and meant, I do want to help with the tedious stuff I just dont know where to begin or how to. Tell me what notepad file I should open and what to change and any tips and ill jump all over it.

The weeby link Evaders posted is pretty good. I might post something up later if I'm up to it, which details stuff.

 

As to the Republic omment, I should prob have mentioned all of my observations are multiplayer based sometimes with us against AI however.

I find that in multiplayer Republic is some mean ladies, not overpowered but mean. I just wanted to reflect that I thought they were a lot more balanced than the Empire was when we play.

MP+AI is the best gauge for balancing imho, much of my changes draws upon such experience. Believe it or not, but before the tech tree overhaul, the Republic was, by far, the worst AI faction in the game. For players they flat out sucked.

 

Using Republic as an example they got something for all tiers

Praetor is like a mini SSD with massive firepower when its leveled up and takes 1/3 the tactical slots of the SSD so its much more flexible and if you make the same number of them as ssd´s in terms of pop cap they're insane. Thats 3300+ firepower, more shields combined, more tactical options (to spread out) for the price of one ssd.

This is true, there is more firepower and shielding combined. However, the Praetor's downside is that it lacks the massive amount of starfighters that the SSD brings, and it's impressive fleet-wide ability boost. In addition to this, this also costs more capital ship slots, which means you can have less capital ships overall, and this costs you more in research, both in cost and time. And while each individual Praetor has more combined health, they are individually more vulnerable than the SSD, which is neigh impossible to take down without a massive fleet. The choice of the SSD vs. Praetor is a matter of personal play style and tactics. I've also noted that I made the SSD a little overpriced, in comparison to the Viscount, and will rectify this sometime soon.

 

For the non SSD Empire has, theyre pretty underpowered. Again to use Republic as an example the jedi cap gets some 300+ firepower and more shields than any of the two "vanilla" caps empires got. Abilities aside my observation be it agreeable or not is that I feel that nothing short of the SSD makes Empire shine.

In fact they seem kinda meh.

Actually, the ISDs have more firepower than the Venators overall, the ISD Command barely, and the Tector a bit more. Though yeah, I'm working on improving the ISDs, as they are the worst of the stock capitals (barring the Lucrehulk DCS and MC80 Diplo, though these are support rather than combat capitals). Abilities are where the ISDs really fall short of the other capitals, more so than any other area. The Oppression ability is honestly an utterly pathetic use of an ability slot, and is really better off being used by the SSD (which has an open slot) than the ISD. In fact, I'm going to change the ISD's Oppression slot to something useful.

 

So in the spirit of being productive is there maybe 1 capital ship that could make its way in at some time between the 2 low tiers and the extreme other end being SSD? something with teeth but not all out domination that had more shields than the lower tiers and a bit more firepower? I mean some new republic cruisers are tougher than the empire caps. Seems just odd to me.

Putting something in between the two classes would be inappropriate and unbalanced. I attempted that with the Victory capital originally, in the end I realized that it wasn't a good idea, to say the least. Besides that, the ISD is the middle ground between the SSD and anything lower, they just need some beefing up. The NR caps are supposed to be better than the Empire caps. The NR is supposed to be somewhat of a blend between the Empire and Alliance, loads of firepower, but at the same time, having great durability and shielding.

Anyways observations only so please dont think im ragging on your skills

Like I said in my first post, yup I know that, and I really like posts like this and want more of them.

[NovaCameron]

We could add the allegence or titan as the middle ground cap ship.

[wbino]

So any guesses to why my first nr cap ships are suddenly free? nevermind me/disabled/enabled seems to have fixed it

svn still down

[Lavo]

We could add the allegence or titan as the middle ground cap ship.

There will be no middle ground capital ship. The lower tier supercaps already serve as a bridge between the larger supercaps and capitals. Besides this, this would mean adding in mid-tier capitals to every faction, when balancing current ships is still an issue, and there isn't any models for these, while some current ships lack skins and models, never mind star bases.

 

So any guesses to why my first nr cap ships are suddenly free? nevermind me/disabled/enabled seems to have fixed it

svn still down

I'm not sure how you were getting free capitals... Were you playing one of the custom maps, perhaps?

[NovaCameron]

True... Eville would have to covert them for us...

[Lavo]

Also Planetkillerzz, if you and your friends happen to have an open slot for your MP rounds, I'd love to join in, haven't had an MP match in awhile.

[NovaCameron]

I never have played mp.... o.o