I'm a bit rushed for time this morning, so I'll have to keep my responses short. I'm enjoying the debate though, Thrawn. I've got problems with that assumption. 1) Japan and Germany attacked with intent to conquer, not to thwart a dictator with nuclear weapons. Japan was feeling the squeeze on its oil supply. Who knows what Hitler was thinking. 2) Pre-emptive strikes are part of the "Just War" doctrine put forth by St. Augustine. They are most certainly part of the "Rules of War", especially when that preemptive strike prevents futher death and carnage. 3) FDR assembled nine whole allies for WWII. Dubya had 39 (or 32...I'd have to double check). His father got, what?, 150 for the first Gulf War, and that has somehow become the benchmark for any new conflict. The War in Iraq was far, far, FAR from unilateral. It just lacked the endorsement of France, Germany, and a few of the older and louder members of the U.N. I'll assume that you'll change your tune for this argument after the report yesterday about the underground research facility at Al Tawaitha(sp?)...the same place where the yellow-cake uranium was found. He was actively pursuing "the bomb". 1) Saudi Arabia needs to have more done to it than just a slap on the wrist. The export of Wahabi Islam to our shores (especially to our prison inmates) is alarming, and I hold the Saudi's to blame. They're on my list, but let's deal with the immediate threats first. 2) UN resolutions would hold some weight if there were actual consequences for violating them. If they won't do it, and there's a Clear and Present Danger to America, you're damn skippy we'll do it for 'em. 3) The World Court was objected to because there were folk who wanted to try individual U.S. soldiers for deeds done while on missions in other countries, whether there was evidence for the deed or not. For example, all it would take is a false charge of genocide and the dressing up (or down) of enemy corpses to make it appear that the U.S. slaughtered innocents. Rather than have that type of frivolous litigation hanging over the U.S. when we're continuously called upon to act as the world's police force, we sought exemption. Besides, the U.S. track record on punishing it's own for wrongdoing is admirable. Take Abu Graib, for instance. It only came to light because the Department of Defense was wrapping up a 6-month investigation and had started trials & punishment phases for those involved. The system works, folks. Considering what they've unearthed in Iraq, we couldn't possibly say for certainty. But it wouldn't have been long. That would be Russia. The U.S. stockpile was drastically reduced, while the Soviets gave lip-service to the treaty. Ukraine has a lot of 'em now, but Russia still has a vast stockpile. I'm sure our nations would have words if it came to light that Canada was selling weapons to rogue states or terrorist organizations. But seeing as we tend to work together more often than not, there's no reason to censure Canada for it's uranium production. On top of that, the IAEC (International Atomic Energy Committee, right? Might have gotten the acronymn wrong) monitors the production and mining of U.N. members. So long as they abide by that oversight, there's no need for action. Subject closed then, right? The Real difference is that most are NOT soldiers fighting for a nation-state, and are therefore not entitled to POW status. They are terrorists. "War on Terror" simply is a way to show just how serious the situation against them is. Of course, the futility of the "War on Drugs" makes you question the choice in that slogan. They are terrorists and enemy combatants that may or may not know where Osama and other Al Qaida leaders are, and/or have knowledge of other plots against Western nations. Giving them any other status and allowing them rights as if they were a common criminal impedes the War on Terror and compromises the safety of every non-Muslim (and even some of them, too!) That just my point! Abu Graib WAS standard interrogation techniques for a civilized nation like the U.S.! There was no NEED for physical torture when humiliation, phychological warfare, and protein deprivation will get the same results. "Torture", as defined by the Geneva convention, is never even a part of the process. Considering that it was part of an investigation post-invasion, including Intel we have NOW that indicates we were in the right, I'd say yes. Unless you'd rather believe Al-Jazeera and the conspiracy theorists. There may have been someone who suspected, or had doubts, but considering that members of the Senate Intelligence Committee (including Sen. Kerry, I might add) had access to the SAME intelligence and agreed with the President's assessment, it seems utter folly to think that some clerk at Langley's gut feeling would override the consensus of the whole U.S. Intelligence apparatus, British Intelligence, Mossad, Russian Intelligence, French Intelligence, private assertions by King Huessein of Jordan, Pres. Mubarak of Egypt, et al. Bottom line is that everyone knew Saddam was guilty of having an active WMD program (and he did), but nobody wanted the U.S. to DO anything since they had too much invested in Iraq to support the fall of the regime. I.E., the "Food for Oil" scandal. The U.S. and the "Coalition of the Willing" just had the balls to act. They have rights, but shouldn't be considered an American Citizen for the purpose of deciding their legal rights. Human rights dictate that the prisoner receive medical treatment, adequate food, shelter, and religious ministration. I have a feeling the international community would be pissed with the U.S. if they were keeping these yahoos in the Hilton. Contrast how the prisoners are kept for both sides. Those insurgent cowards behead their prisoners even though they don't get their way. That's not earning them any sympathy. But the U.S. is the villian for keeping their prisoners healthy? Makes no sense to me. You lost me, there. Are you saying that the motive for Vietnam was political, and that it's the same thing for the War in Iraq? Ask Senator McCain whether or not the treatment of prisoners at Guantanamo is comparable to what he endured in Vietnam. Which side has backed out of each and every peace proposal after an agreement has been tentatively reached? "Palestine" was a British Protectorate until after WWII. It was given to the Israelis in order to give them a homeland and a nation-state status. There was no such nationality as "palestinian" prior to that, simply Arabs of different nationalities that lived in the region of "Palestine". Also, there were already Jews living there, with a history spanning back over four thousand years, thoughout the Muslim conquest and the Crusades. You can't insist that the land was solely "palestinian". Partly, but also the stubborn insistance of the "Godfather" of all terrorists, Yassir Arafat. But I'd also point out that the U.S. has supported giving the palestinians land that was historically theirs (Gaza Strip, etc.), but the palestinians are never satisfied. Ask yourself if we're getting the full story. A Hamas cell hides in a residential complex, building several suicide-bomber belts and fostering a hatred of everything Israeli. Mossad discovers the whereabouts of the facility, and strikes at a time when they are sure to incur the least collateral damage, thus preventing a strike upon Israeli AND palestinian civilians. And that's wrong? I know this goes back to your being against the policy of preemption, but in this case it's justified. It's not a "hissy fit", it's bypassing the gridlock of the U.N. and getting the job done. Enforcing the U.N.'s resolutions for them when they don't have the balls to do it themselves. Putting a bite into the resolutions and proving that there's a reason to even have a "United Nations" in the first place. Being the biggest DOES mean the rest of the world should listen to you, especially when the U.S. fronts the cost of 24% of the U.N., more than four times as much as the next highest contributor. We constantly shoulder the burden, contribute the troops, fund the activities, yet whenever WE ask for assistance we're ridiculed and reviled. Worse yet, they actively work against U.S. interests out of some pathetic envy of our position atop the world power structure. "The U.S. isn't taxed high enough", scream the socialists. "The U.S. should bear the brunt of Kyoto, even though China is a larger polluter (but we'll exempt them, of course)," say the environmentalists. Well, we've had it! We are NOT the the beck-and-call girl for the U.N. We have our interests, and we help look out for the interests for other nations. We gave over $50 million to Kenya last year in foreign aid. Why? We give foreign aid to other nations that actively oppose us in the U.N. Why? Because we're NOT some arrogant nation of 'imperialist' militants bent on furthering the agendas of multinational corporations! Surprisingly, despite all the vitriol thrown our way, we actually care about the welfare of the rest of the world. So if a station airs the views of a Republican, they must have pro-Republican bias? (And I sincerely doubt Larry King is a 'dedicated' Republican, given his guest lists and the softball questions he gives guests like Hillary Clinton) Well, that must mean that Fox News is a liberal station, since it airs the views of Alan Combs. And CBS had an interview with a Republican last week, so that off-sets the admittedly liberal views of Dan Rather. CNN is NOT right-wing, and never has been. There's a reason why it's referred to as the "Clinton News Network". Their reporting is so far to the left, it's astounding. Look at the ratings for proof! Fox is trouncing them, despite being in fewer households and in fewer markets. And they're the last network to report anything negative about the Kerry campaign, a practive they perfected under the Clinton Administration. There's a reason Bush will only give interviews to NBC and Fox. CNN hates the Bush Adminstration. Yet you're taxed at a much higher rate than U.S. citizens, and your healthcare system makes our HMO's look good. Your military is so broke it contemplated merging activities with ours in 1999. And things are so swell that the entire province of Quebec wants to secede. Your borders are unbelieveably porous, and your nation sports less than a quarter the population of the U.S. Your national budget is eclipsed by that of Texas (who has no state income tax, btw), your inflation rate is higher than the U.S.'s, and your currency valuation is nearing half of the U.S. dollar. Yup. Things are definitely better north of the border. (BTW, I was born in Barrie, Ontario, so I have dual-citizenship and am, in fact, partly slamming myself.) Well, first off they're on Sunday mornings, not Saturday. Secondly, when you have hosts like George Stephenopolous (former Clinton spin-meister) hosting a show, and the most "conservative" host you have is Tim Russert, then the objectivity of the talking-head gab-fests is called into question. They have a history of pouncing on any potentially damaging information involving a Conservative or Republican, yet bend over backwards to explain away Democrat scandals. Tim Russert has a rep for agressively attacking his guests, researching and memorizing every known fact about that person. People dread facing Russert. Yet he ignores facts that could be embarassing for characters like Bill & Hillary Clinton, John Kerry, and most prominent Democrats. Has there been another domestic attack? No. Is there a problem with the insurgents? Yes. Will it be dealt with? Damn skippy. Things are better, but we'll never be back to the same footing we were pre-9/11. Dear Lord, please explain to Mr. Thrawn how you fight a war. Thank you. Amen. What, you thought we could do it without any casualties? That there wouldn't be innocent people tragically slain in the conflict? In what war hasn't that happened? And I suppose Kerry's "kindler, gentler, more sensitive War on Terror" is the answer, right? What, surprised I'd admit that? {emphasis mine} That's where the bias creeps in. Well, I'm probably going to have to quit anyway, what with my leaving. But I've said my piece. Any rebuttal to your rebuttal will have to wait 'til November. It needs to be shortened, though, you're right.