OFFICIAL: Gameplay Questions

[markb50k]

Please post any questions on gameplay.  I want to allow alot of freedom of what we discuss in this thread, but I want to try to NOT make this thread a discussion on recommended settings.  We have a Gameplay Suggestions thread for that.

 

Thanks,

Mark

[bucky699]

Hey was directed here by EvilleJedi, he didnt actually mention what this game is aside from its like the old SW Rebellion game, which i loved oh so much. So can you please explain what the engine is like? What options are available? Like example in rebellion there was ship combat, land combat, espionage, kidnapping/assassinations, commanders and the so on and so on. 

[markb50k]

In short, it is like Rebellion, but a lot more detailed.

 

Currently, you can do space combat

mine resources

construct different commodities to sell or trade or use to build ships

run merchant trading routes

actually construct ships

 

eventually you can do land combat, boarding of ships.

 

I dont foresee being able to do assassination mission or anything where you can see an individual person, but who knows. 

[bucky699]

Well not everything needs to be seeen like in ye old rebellion but that sounds great so far. So what about recruiting characters as commanders as thats a thing i miss bout the old rebellion game, being able to recruit characters then have them do whatever like become an admiral and such.

 

Also do you havea  latest version out i can download and check out

[markb50k]

There is currently no recruiting of special characters but if enough people want it, i have some ideas of how to implement it, but I cant promise of course.

 

Check my sig for the link to the game download.

[Planeswalker]

Several questions.

 

1. We all start with 100,000 credits worth of ships. What happens if during our 1st or 2nd engagement, they all go kabush. Do we have to 'reset' our accounts or just plod on with whatever scraps we have left?.

 

2. Do Imperial starfighters with no hyperdrive have a limited range? If yes, do they need to be based on a planet and/or a carrier?

 

3. Partially similar to above, For a long range campaign/battle, do Imperial starfighters have to dock every few turns on a carrier for R & R ?.

 

Thanks in advance.

[markb50k]

since this is a testing phase of the game, after ppl lose ships they can request more ships.  I will probably put some simple unit request logic in the GUI that will automate this process and it will allow for quicker placement of reinforcements for you.

 

fighters with no hyper capability are simply limited to the sector they are in.  They cannot subspace travel out of their sector.  THe only way they can leave is onboard a hyper capable ship.  They dont have a supply range like they did in EvR.

 

there are no supply rules restricting starfighters to dock periodically, other than the fact that their missile weapons will need to be replenished and can only be done by docking on a cap ship that has WEAPONS components loaded on it.

 

Thanks for the questions

[Idle_Scholar]

I think it'd be quite a good idea to impose some pretty heavy restriciotns on fighters (like very limited fuel). I got curious and messed around in excell trying to work out wether an ISD II could beat it's weight in fighters (Star Vipers) and got this:

 

Initial Fighters No. of Cycles Remaining Fighters

3220                   3                   3180

2420                   4                   2360

1820                   5                   1740

1220                   9                   1080

  620                 21                     220

 

And that’s 'No. of cycles until the ISD is vaporised'. This assumes 100% hit accuracy (which I'm sure isn't true), and based on the same assumptions if the fighters have to fly from the ISD's maximum range they will lose 670 of their number. But if you fight an ISD II with its cost in fighters (First column + 670) even having to close the range the fighters blast it to pieces in three shots.

 

OK so an ISD II is wasting most of its fire in overkill but even a Lancer (special anti-fighter frigate) which does just enough damage to oneshot Star Vipers and has 80 shots a cycle will die to a single combined shot from its cost in Star Vipers. The result of that particular matchup depends on weather the fighters start out of range and who gets their hits in first but in principle fighters are just as mobile, do more damage, are faster and more combat effective than the majority of capital ships.

 

My other big assumption here is that speed = m per cycle, but that only affects the numbers lost on approach, which a good inital jump could remove entirely.

[markb50k]

good analysis on paper.  lets try it out ingame and see if you are right.  if so, we tweak.

 

im also wondering if you took into account that fighter LCs are less powerful than their cap ship counterparts.

 

But overall, if someone wants to take on the role of BALANCING chief, than I am all ears.  I just created the engine and a first shot at content, but the game is really yours (meaning the players).

[Idle_Scholar]

Well a LCF does 30 damage, and I've assumed that's per shot so if it fires 4 times a cycle thats 120 damage per cycle. A Star Viper has a LC4F, so if it hits with every shot it'll do 480 damage per cycle. Thats about 5/6 a TLB.

[Turgidson]

Accuracy won't be 100% as far as I know, and fighters do have to close the gap. However, as they're small, and accuracy of heavy (longer range) guns is worse, there's a pretty good chance they'll be able to close the gap, and that only capship-based Lasers/Tubolaser Cannons will have a chance to get them (batteries' accuracy is quite worse).

 

When taking these paper examples: true, fighters will smoke their capship counterpart in a single cycle. But a Lancer will also smoke its cost in fighters (well, 80 units per cycle), so this evens things out... Fighters' gun range is shorter, so they have to close in - giving some chance to the LFRG to do the trick (depending on the real accuracy). All the LFRG guns may not be able to fire, but it's not sure all fighters will enter the range at the same time.

 

For hyperspacing out: make it so that units only get active after a few seconds (one cycle or two), that would fix the potential issue.

 

 

Overall, my own feeling is merely that battles would be really, really fast - perhaps way too fast. A Lancer frigate deals 16000 damage per cycle, compared to its 27500 hitpoints. Supposing only half its gun would be in the right angle, it'd take barely 4 cycles (!) for such a ship to annihilate itself... This doesn't take accuracy into account, though - frigates are small and can be harder to hit.

Larger ships have their balance more shifted towards their shields and hull, compared to their firepower - meaning longer battles between them.

 

Anyway, running tests would be needed to get more substantial results. Paper tests are fun, but they don't take all parameters into account.

[Idle_Scholar]

Small question, if you give a unit an escort order and then jump the escorted unit, will the escorts wait untill the escorted unit jumps to jump?

 

EDIT: And what about vice-versa, will a unit wait for it's escorts to be ready?

Edited May 23, 2008 by Idle_Scholar

[markb50k]

if a unit is put into escort, it will check if the flagship starts a jump order, and if so it will initiate a jump to follow suit.  once that escort starts that jump order, it wont check again, however, so if you decide to cancel the jump you need to cancel it for all the ships.

 

that logic doesnt work vice versa either.

[Idle_Scholar]

Ok, so I take it that the code doesn't say insert a ( wait = time untill escorted ship jumps - time for escort to jump )

 

Say a  jump requires a 180* turn a fighter can turn, jump, arrive and get blasted before its accompanying capital ship can do likewise even with the same jump speed and calc time.

[General_Antillies]

Hey just wanted to say that I love what I've seen so far. I know it's stupid, but I love being able to name each fighter. Also the fact that the destroyed ships still appear on the map adds a cool dimension as well.

Just out of curiosity, is it everyone vs everyone, just testing combat? Or are there are alliances ect? I've seen both neuteral and enemy ships so far and didn't know who to shoot at.

[markb50k]

we are testing combat, but the alliance code is in place, so heck, try it out too.  There seems to be enough people, enemy and friendly, to create some neat battles.

 

Idle Scholar:  You are correct, the code is very simplistic when it comes to the escort-jump stuff, so I would recommend, if you have to do a 180 degree turn, I would just have the cap ship do a move order in the general direction of your jump, then go to a jump order after it reaches it.  by the time the cap ship reaches the end of the move order, all the ships will be pointing in the same direction.  There are other ways of doing it too, like just having the fighters dock, do a wait command that will cover the flight to the sector, then have them do the escort. 

 

I will also look at improving the logic as well, when I am not fixing bugs, etc.  Appreciate the insight.

[Stevefin_warlords]

play this game. im in game and i cant do anything. trying to jump but wont jump,ect

[Aroth]

The game is in End-Turn mode right now, which is why none of your moves are being saved. Normally End-Turn mode only lasts a few minutes, but due to an error it won't get running again until Sunday according to Bern.

[Idle_Scholar]

Is there any way to ditch cargo? Or preferentially salvage a single type (say just weapons)? Or transfer cargo between capital ships (maybe a reason to buy shuttles)?

[markb50k]

there is a DUMP GOODS order, which will allow you to just dump the cargo you dont want overboard.  It creates a derelict little unit which could then be salvaged by another ship.

 

or

 

you could transfer cargo to another ship if you are close enough to them.  There is a TRANSFER GOODS order

 

 

there currently isnt any way of salvaging a particular type of cargo.

[Deathwatch]

Although I reckon that this is a bit further off, what are the plans for the game in the longer run, with planets and such?

 

Also about ship balance, what is the formula used to calculate the cost of the ships at the moment? Some ships seem to be quite overpriced for what you get. Also, some of the "older" ships are easily comparable with the "newer" ships, which may be something that needs balancing as well.

[markb50k]

ill talk about the economic side of the game (the long run piece) a little later but basically planets will be in the game, and will be where you do most of your industry.  in addition, planets will be able to do certain tasks for you (mine, build ships, etc) for a price.  The price will depend on the planets relative abundance of the three raw materials of the game (metals, minerals, and oil).

 

ships cost are based on what components make them up (chassis, armor, tech, etc) with a default price given to every component.  Once the real game starts, it is very unlikely a ship will cost what it costs in this version of the game, because 'price' will be dependent on the planet doing the building, or the cost of the materials, plus any labor costs from the planet (if you build it yourself, you dont have to pay labor, but you do have to amass the materials but mining/producing them or buying them)

[Idle_Scholar]

there is a DUMP GOODS order, which will allow you to just dump the cargo you dont want overboard.  It creates a derelict little unit which could then be salvaged by another ship.

 

or

 

you could transfer cargo to another ship if you are close enough to them.  There is a TRANSFER GOODS order

 

 

there currently isnt any way of salvaging a particular type of cargo.

 

I'm having a lot of trouble trying to salvage any weapons. I move my ships of recent (unsalvaged) wrecks and all I seem to get is chassis, armour and propulsion. So it would be nice to preferentially salvage materials, and also to move automatically from  wreck to wreck like a harvester in homeworld or something.

[markb50k]

i understand.  i will look at how easy that is to implement.

[dojoyoda_warlords]

The 150000 we receive at the start to purchase units - do we get more every turn or do we have to wait till we kark it?