Dark Side

[ElvisMiggell]

Dude are you majoring in psychology or something? That was deep....

[Guest Scathane]

Whatever it is, he's already Lieutenant-Coloneling in it.

[TK421]

There are grey Jedi...

 

There were many factions of Force users. There are some documents circulating arround on internet about it. Official things and so.

[ElvisMiggell]

Official as in written by our good friends Mister Lucas?

[Trejiuvanat]

no, I guess I read enough, AND I'm a Lieutenant Colonel. Even Grey Jedi, would have to be interpretations of the Force. Each of us does define the FOrce differently. So is it for the Jedi. They stick to antagonists, that have to reach a certain balance. GRey Jedi, the Jensaarai perhaps, have a different one, the Sith and Dark Jedi yet another one. There can be an official definition of the Force, but there will always be interpretations and reinterpretations of it.

[Guest Scathane]

You're fed up with 'new' interpretations of the Force? By the way, what or who are the Jensaarai?

[Trejiuvanat]

The Jensaarai appear in I, Jedi. They are force-users that base thier discipline and teaching on Sith techniques but employ them to protect their colony. They are not Jedi, nor Dark Jedi. I imageine they are the gray JEdi TK mentioned.

AS to the different interpretations of the Force, think ofo it like god, or Allah or Buddha or whatever you believe. Everythign in this universe is susceptible to interpretations, it is a personal things. most people don't think about it, either they don't mind about it or they don0't care about it. If you think about it, you'll find that God is all you want him to be, it is your ideal. He is perfect, he is an ideal version of yourself, soemwehere in the process an anti-version of yourself comes up, everythign you don't want to be. The Force is much like that.

[ElvisMiggell]

From a certain point of view.......

[Guest Scathane]

Touché, ElvisMiggell!

 

Trejuvianat, you said that the Jensaarai are neither Jedi, nor Dark Jedi. If they're not Jedi at all, then how can they be Grey Jedi.

 

By the way, if you have the ability to use the force, does this mean that you're a Jedi/Dark Jedi/Sith? I thought that being Jedi/Dark Jedi/Sith was a matter of training...

[ElvisMiggell]

Well, you get force sensitive, that's everyone, no matter what they believe. Jedi and Dark/Sith are the two extremes, and there are others inbetween like the Jensaarii.

[Trejiuvanat]

I describe dthe Jensaarai as grey JEdi because that was a term that popped up is some earlier post and I thought it was referring to the Jensaarai. Formally they are no Jedi, they are no Sith either. They are a hybrid of both of them...

For me a Jedi is someone who uses the Force to do good, moral good... He may not have a Jedi rank, nor a lightsaber, but he is deep down already a Jedi because of his commitment to good. A dark Jedi is a force-user who uses the force as a way to benefit himself. Out of selfishness.

Sith a culture within the dark side of the FOrce, which does not mean that thir culture is dark as well. The Jensaarai incorpored SIth teaching into their own culture without becoming dark because they were "jedi" since they were doing good for others. DEfending their group. Although not as selfless as Luke or Yoda or Ben...

All of it from a certain point of view...

[Guest Scathane]

Did the Jensaarai actually incorporate Sith teaching as such, or did they just make use of Sith techniques? From a certain point of view, there is a difference...

 

By the way, I found some interesting descriptions on the web:

 

Jensaarai. Jedi Knight that uses the full scope of the Force, walking a thin line between light and dark.

 

JENSAARAI, The. Originally created in Star Wars books, there was actually a realistic Jensaarai group which existed and is possibly dismembered by now. Like the fictional Jensaarai, many of them were militaristic in nature (such as some Shadow Jedi are) and practiced many Dark Jedi and fictional Sith teachings. The three ranks of the Jensaarai are Apprentices, Defenders, and the Saarai-Kaar.

 

GRAY JEDI. Gray Jedi are Jedi who promote in being in balance with the Force, not simply follow the light side of the Force though light teachings. It is rumored that George Lucas claimed Qui-Gon Jinn was in fact a Gray Jedi, proving they do actually exist. Many groups of Gray Jedi find Jedi (or Light Jedi) to be too involved with compassion, while Dark Jedi, they say, are too focused on hatred or personal gain. Similar to Shadow teachings, they find, like Qui-Gon Jinn, a Jedi must follow the will of the Force whatever the consequences, and that other Jedi groups, particularly Light and Dark Jedi, are too political to realize this simple truth.

[Trejiuvanat]

In I, Jedi the Saarai-Kaar told luke and corran that the Jedi of old did "steal" their discipline from the Sith.

The Jensaarai are teh result of students trained by dark Jedi but were not opened completely to the dark side, thier masters did use sith teachings after the deaths of their masters the students probably used the teachings and techniques but did not fall in temptation...

[Guest Scathane]

Okay. With regard to the definition I quoted before, it remains the question, then, whether the Jensaarai and Gray Jedi are the same? I mean, GL has suggested that Qui-Gonn might have been a Gray Jedi, but he certainly wasn't a Jensaarai, if you ask me.

[Trejiuvanat]

No he isn't that much we can be sure.

I must admit I hadn't hear Grey Jedi as designation for a specific group either.

So many things were changed with the prequels, especially on issues regarding Jedi.

[Guest Scathane]

So many things were changed with the prequels, especially on issues regarding Jedi.

How do you mean?

[Guest JediIgor]

I'd have to agree with the things that were preached in the Yuuzhan Vong book. There is no dark side or light side of the force, but rather how the force wielder employs the Force is what determines the "light" or "dark" of it. The explanation seems pretty concrete, or Vader would've gone mad from the dark side

[Guest Scathane]

How, then, should we explain Yoda's words when he says that the Dark Side clouds everything. And why does everybody speak the Dark Side of the Force? If it depends on the wielder of the Force, then isn't it rather a question of succumbing to your own dark side?

[Trejiuvanat]

That's the trick question Scathane.

There is no dark side as such, it is the user's own dark side. But for msot people the dark side is an opposite of the ideals of the light side. Corrupted versions thereof.

YOda's comment suggests that there is an active dark side one who has effects on other people. I can't imagine how that could be unless one would expalin it, that there is a dark side user on planet, his effect on the force would cloud everything, but Yoda and Co. should be Jedi enough to trace it.

It would be as well yoda's own dark side. Worrying about a war, about young skywalker and the pain he felt thorugh the force, so much going on and the jedi counil did not know it.

[Guest Scathane]

Well, the point is, that in real life, I agree with you on such matters. With regard to the SW universe, I think thath GL means that tere actually is a Dar Side to the Force itself...

[Trejiuvanat]

GL is the Dark Side of the FORce himself.

[Guest Scathane]

Nice one, Trej. But seriously, what do you think of the suggestion that the Force actually has a Drak Side itself?

[Trejiuvanat]

No, if we stay in teh star wars universe we'll see that theire are creature that perceive the force, and tdo not classifyit as dark and light. Those things from Vision of the Future, Car'Das says they see it like a rainbow not simply black and white.

In our universe well, Buddha said it, there are things beyond good and evil.

[Guest Scathane]

No, if we stay in teh star wars universe we'll see that theire are creature that perceive the force, and tdo not classifyit as dark and light. Those things from Vision of the Future, Car'Das says they see it like a rainbow not simply black and white.

In our universe well, Buddha said it, there are things beyond good and evil.

I understand all that. Would you then at least agree that the Light Jedi/Jedi Council seem to think that there is a Dark Side to the Force itself?

[Trejiuvanat]

From a certain point of view. ..

But yes the Jedi counci land the Jedi tradition does believe in a dark side as an external factor that can affect force usrs.

SO they see in evil people an encarnation of the dark side.