Religion

[DarthTofu]

Umm, not to be a pain and completely shatter everything you've just said, but if they're the exact same religion, then why are they going by different names? I mean, I have a friend who's a Mormen, or however you spell it, that hails from Salt Lake City, and he keeps getting on my case for mistaking him for a Christian. Let me clarify that: He sends me lots of chain E-mails of the type that say "God loves you. Send this to twenty-five other people and something wonderful will happen in the next 45 minutes!" I write back saying "Atheist. Stop sending me these Christian chain E-mails" he writes back and says "I'm not a Christian, I'm a Mormen! Get it write!" I write back and say "You used the wrong "right", stupid" and then the entire thing dissintegrates due to his lack of grammar. But I'm pretty sure that there is a differance even if I have no Earthly idea what it is.

[AdmiralToguroAni]

Hard to say about that specific case, but theres a big LDS following around the uni and they claim to be Christian although they do use the term "mormon." Around here though, that seems to be like saying "I'm Methodist" or "I'm Catholic" or whatever. Thats not to say that there might be another branch of Mormonism that DOESN'T worship Jesus, just that Joseph Smith, the founder, believed in Jesus and wrote the Book of Mormon based on that belief

[DarthTofu]

Actually, come to think of it, i think the big thing that set Mormons apart from Christians was the bigamy thing, though I could deffinately be wrong (Feel free to correct me if you are a Mormon)

[Jonaray]

 

I do believe in the moral teachings of Christianity, about being "nice", living a good life, blah blah blah. I personally have a good set of morals (in my opinion), and would like my future children to honor the same morals.

 

I must also say that I am totally against the church, of any religion. You do not have to sit in a great meeting place with a bunch of other people, repeating the same thing at the same time like a bunch of programmed robots, just to practice your faith. If you believe in a higher power, you do not need to go to a special place to be with Him/Her, they would be everywhere at all times. You could "pray" at home, work, on the street, during a bus ride, whenever. The church in unneccessary to any religion.

 

Whooh Shit, That thought provoked me into writing a Massive testimony and history lesson Ah well the bones of it were:

 

 

It is a fact that Christians have generally good morals which is nice, but that is not the defining factor of true christianity!

 

The true message of the gospel is this:

 

Jesus died to save us from eternal Damnation. If we accept him as our Lord saviour, then we are saved. No actions required other than to admit that we are not perfect, and to ask Him for forgiveness of all our sins!

That is all that is required to enter into heaven!

 

Therefore all the religious crap mentioned in that quote above comes from the spirit of religisism!

 

As a Christian myself, I have made time in my busy schedule to both read the Bible and Pray. Now you may think that is too old fashioned or whatever but it is essential in todays world!

What I have learned is that:

 

Reguardless of where you worship, We all worship the one God, and we all believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. However, through the years of church history, traditions started to develop. Tradition is a great thing, but the devil often distorts good things and turns them away from their God honouring origins.

 

A really well known example of this is the Pharasies. their traditions became religion. The Devil had planted seeds of Religisism (which is actually a demonic spirit) and thus turned 10 laws into hundreds.

By the time Jesus came around, the Pharasies were deaf to Gods word. When Jesus, the greatest teacher of them all whas right in frount of them, they rejected his word. These were supposed to be ammong the holiest of all the Israelites!

 

This same thing has happened throughout church history!

A big example of this is the Catholic/Protestant split of long ago.

The "Catholic" meaning "one/universal" church had started to allow traditions to develop into religions. Thus, moving away from the teachings of Christ and into the ideas of Man. Thus the protestant split happened. However, the same mistake has also been made in EVERY church denomination as satan mixes things up really well. At the time, the Protestant split was to focus more on Christs teachings but history did repeat itself. Over the years the same thing happened to different degrees. Denominations found their traditions, thus, their "Religions" aswell.

 

So is the Church doomed to the "sit in a great meeting place with a bunch of other people, repeating the same thing at the same time like a bunch of programmed robots, just to practice your faith" sterio type?

 

Hell no!!! The Devil will never gain such a victory.

 

The Catholic church of today is very much christ centered as it should be, beeing rich with history and tradition. The same can be said of all Protestant Denominations.

 

So what is the difference then between Tradition and Religion?

How can you tell if your traditions have become a religion to you?

 

The simplest way to tell is to ask yourself..."What do I believe here?"

You have allowed your mind to be tricked into allowing the spirit of Religisism to take hold if you think:

1: Doing this will help me get to heaven! - Eg: Have to repent of every sin to get to heaven, Have to say something in particular to be forgiven.

2: Not doing this or standing against this will send me to hell! - If I was to never do this again I will go to hell, If I was to disrupt it or protest against it I will go to hell.

3: Basicly, Feeling as if you need to follow certain procedures to go to heaven or gain Gods favour.

4: This has been the way it has allways been done, we must do things this way for a reason!

 

The only truth that matters is that Jesus died to save us from eternal Damnation. If we accept him as our Lord saviour, then we are saved!

That is all that is required to enter into heaven!

 

Whooh, that was a lot of history to say in 1 post

[DarthTofu]

Enter rant mode: Okay, are you one of those people who believes that you get into heaven through word and not action? Because I'll tell your right off the bat that that brand of Christianity is one that I feel is out right wrong and stupid. Simply believing that there is a Jesus and saying forgive my sins shouldn't be a way to get into Heaven. unless one actually were to follow those teachings in the bible, I really don't feel that they should be allowed into their promised land. It just doesn't make sense to deny a person who has done naut but good deeds all their life passage to Heaven purely for a lack of faith in something which has no proof (don't go into how you have huge amounts of proof on how everything in the bible is true). My dads favorite conversion story on why I should be a Christian due to versatility is about how he asked his teacher in, like, 3rd grade where he asked his teacher what happened to all of the jews who died in the concentration camps. She told him that they all went to Hell for their lack of faith. Just saying, I have no issue whatsoever with screaming that any Christian who believes that word and not action is important is an outright fool who goes against all that they claim to stand for. End rant.

 

Edit: On a side note, I just hit commodore! Woo!

[Jonaray]

I didnt say that I believe that I can carry on sinning and that Jesus is my ticket to heaven! I also do not believe that you get into Heaven by word. Words and Actions are Physical things, and when dealing with the issue of salvation, the Physical body has absolutely nothing to do with it so therefore, there is nothing we can say or do to get into heven. It is a matter of the heart/Spirit and therefore, I cannot steriotype anyone, nor can I say that their beliefs are BS. If your heart is right with God then Great! However, that is between you and God, and He will eventually show you if you are or are not in the right place with Him.

As I was trying to say in my last post, which you mis-understood, is that Jesus has set us free from the strict "Law" of the old testament and therefore, Not going to church every sunday, or failing to pray every day etc will not mean our damnation.

As Christians, part of followings Christs teachings are things like this so it is a good thing to do, however, Christ has eliminated the law thus enabling us to go to heaven without the need of things like sacrificing lambs etc.

God gave us free will, so If one chooses to abuse the gift Jesus gave us by carrying on sinning and living a worldly life, that is a matter of personal choice.

As for me, I live my life knowing that Jesus cared enough for me to die and thus, I choose to do more for Him than just accepting him as a Saviour.

God wants us to spend time with Him as he fellowshiped with Adam & Eve in the garden of eden. Therefore, I do prey, I do go to church, I do have God honouring traditions, however, I never allow myself to get into a position of abusing the Love that God has shown to me!

 

Now I think that rather than wasting forum space, I think that If you want to continue to question my beliefs that is sweet, just PM me or something and we could conntinue this without boring the others

 

Sweet as dude!

Oh and i love your signiture!

Because nothing says your skrewed like a DeathStar!

-Jono

[PsychoInfiltrator]

Jonaray, glad I'm not alone. EDIT: Good, (Biblical) explanation, Jonaray. You are better at this than I.

 

Regarding Mormons, they may be dictionary-Chrisitains, but they are not Christians. Believing in God does NOT mean you are a Chrisitan. To quote a Bible passage: Even the demons believe that God exists, and they fear and tremble.

 

And so, I have finally decided to distill Christianity down to the ABSOLUTE most basic. Everything other than this, is, relative to this, USELESS, WORTHLESS, and NOT WORTH MY TIME. Not saying the other stuff isn't important, but this is the most important of all, by far.

 

The Basic Beliefs of a Christian.

 

I believe that God exists. I believe that we are all sinners; nobody's perfect; the penalty of Sin is Death (Hell.). I believe that God loves us. I believe that we can never be good enough to go to Heaven. I believe that God decided to rectify that by sending His Son, His perfect Son, as a sacrifice for our sins. I believe that anyone, ANYONE, who believes thus and asks Jesus to take away our sins and live within him/her will not go to Hell, REGARDLESS of what they have done, or who they are, or if they are led astray. It CANNOT be undone. The will go to Heaven.

 

Everything other than that is 'extra,' the dessert to the main course, the icing on the cake, the auxilaries of the rebular army, the footnotes to the essay, the...you get the point.

 

Other than what I have wrote above there is alot of other 'core' stuff, but this is the most important part, the part that matters most, the part that to exclusion of all else is enough.

[AdmiralToguroAni]

The Basic Beliefs of a Christian.

 

I believe that God exists. I believe that we are all sinners; nobody's perfect; the penalty of Sin is Death (Hell.). I believe that God loves us. I believe that we can never be good enough to go to Heaven. I believe that God decided to rectify that by sending His Son, His perfect Son, as a sacrifice for our sins. I believe that anyone, ANYONE, who believes thus and asks Jesus to take away our sins and live within him/her will not go to Hell, REGARDLESS of what they have done, or who they are, or if they are led astray. It CANNOT be undone. The will go to Heaven.

 

 

How exactly does this differ from Mormonism that believes in and worships Jesus? They call him the Savior believe in the resurrection, etc, so why wouldn't it make them Christian? What you've said are the important things don't exclude them.

[DarthTofu]

Then apparently you are of the breed of Christianity that I oppose. What was it that Jesus was supposed to have been saying in all of his teachings? Oh, yeah, be nice to everyone and help those that need help! A simple belief in you god shouldn't be the only decisive factor in getting you to your promised land! That's just being stupid. Your biblical teachings tell you that you should be doing good things! What about the Buddah? Do you believe that eh went to Hell for a lack of Christianity, even though all that he did was to encourage peace, attempt to convert none, and prevent wars from occuring?

[AdmiralToguroAni]

actually Christian teachers would say that the Buddha is in hell, and that he was inspired by the devil. Same as Ghandi. Thats one of the reasons I dropped it.

[PsychoInfiltrator]

Of Ghandi and Buddha I leave to a more experieced, more learned Christian than I too explain. I could explain it, but not as well as it could be done, and it wouldn't help anyone's understanding of Christianity, so for now I shall not comment.

 

However, you seem to have missed the jist of what I said before. Waht I listed as the basic beliefs is what somebody who is about to die needs to know. The part you seem to be looking for is the second most basic thing about Chrisitanity and is essentially thus, though some of this is considered implications of other parts and not often discussed, it seems obvious to those who understand, tohugh not so much to those who):

 

Because God has given the gift of Eternal Life we 'owe a debt' to Him that we obviously can never repay. We can try, but it won't work. But we should try and we do by obeying the Ten Commandments and doing what He tells us to do, through the Bible or a personal message, such as a 'calling' or urging of sorts to say-go on a missions trip, help soembody up after they trip, defend the loner from the 'cool people,' stand up to bullies, choose a certain career type, or as in my current case, teach you guys everything I can about Christianity, what it is, what is isn't, and so on and so forth.

 

And to you who claim to have held faith in God or whatnot, but don't for some reason now, this I must say: Did you really ever have that faith at all in the first place? Shouldn't you, if you really believed, upon having doubts attempt to get them resolved? I'm not saying none of you have, but it seems to me that on some things some of you didn't try all that hard, to put it lightly. (Some of you seem to have thought much about this, however.) It is in fact the integrity of your former faith I am questioning here, and I will not hide that fact. Please do not find that offensive, but the very hair trigger angry response(s) I am seekign to avoid coan sometimes indicate that perhaps the questioner in such instances as these has hit upon something that the receiver of the questions should think about before responding.

 

Such it is with me; I do my best to check a 'hairtrigger' angry response often indicates a fault with my thinking or somethign I really need to think about in deatil, often soemthing I need ot pray about.

[DarthTofu]

... so basically you're questioning why we stopped being Christians? Okay, here's some of my logic on this subject matter- why did you start being a Christian? Personally it was only because my parents were, and taught me that that was the way that people came to be, end of story. I started wondering if, left to my own devices, I ever would have become a Christian. I came to the conclusion that I wouldn't have, really. I mean, if you were an impresionable youth with no clue how the elements worked, do you think that you would accept the Greek or Roman? I think it very likely. in questioning the bible and all religions, I came to a common intersection: the point of each religion is to explain the unknown. We don't understand how life works or when it began: Christians credit it to god, Hindus to Brahma, the Ancient Greeks to Zeus, the Ancient Romans to Mercury. It started out with praying for my grandmother to live and to find out five minutes later that she had just died. Either an odd coincidence or a rather savage act in my seventh-grade opinion. So from there on out I started half- not believing in and half hating this 'god' figure. Then i had a talk with my sister, went over a cross between Agnostism and Atheism, then returned to Atheism when I continued to think over just how much the bible contradicts itself and teaches things that I don't agree with. This isn't to say that I oppose Christians or any other religion (Except, as said, the Christians who believe that all you need to do to get to the 'promised land' is to believe in god). In fact, i'll openly support those religions since the core message is to be nice to everyone and get along- the people who don't adhere to that, though, are the ones that annoy me. Personally I'm considering following Buddha's teachings since he was a humble man leading a humble life and making the world a better place. Gotta say, I admired Budda, Ghandi, and M.L.K.- very influential men who were never violent. So anyway, that's my story of a lack of Christianity. I just don't think that its right for people to choose their religion based soley on their parent's religion. If I ever have kids, I won't give them atheistic teachings- rather, I'll let them learn of all our world's religions and let them pick whatever seems right to them, openly supporting whatever decision they make... Yeah, that was really effing long...

[Grand_Admiral_Thrawn]

Guys, I think this thread was created to have a civil discussion about different religions and what not, not quesiton other people's faith. We've had eight pages of good discussion, let's not let it get out of hand now.

[AdmiralToguroAni]

I agree. That challenge may have been over the line on this particular thread, psych. Actually, I've been waiting for you to respond to my Mormon question, as I don't see the difference between, say...

 

A mormon who believes the Old Testament, New Testament, and the Book of Mormon

 

A Christian who believes in the standard protestant version of the Bible, and....

 

A Christian who believes that the books removed by the Catholic council, known as the Apocrypha, are actually the Word of God.

 

All three scenarios feature people who believe in and worship Christ, yet all three have a different spin on the Bible stemming from having different books. Nowhere in the Bible does it say which books are canon and which aren't, and those decisions were made by people in charge of organizing the religion. Therefore, it cannot be said with absolute certainty that the book of Mormon isnt Canon.

 

As a personal anectode, the Ghandi conundrum got me too. After 2 years of soul searching, actually trying to stay Christian without giving up my search for answers (I felt that if I had to stop asking questions then I didnt really deserve to be in the faith), my pastor said "If Ghandi didn't believe in Jesus, then he's in Hell. It SOUNDS unfair, but thats because we're using flawed human logic instead of God's perfect logic."

 

That made me feel embittered toward God, but just being mad at God doesn't mean that you should say he doesn't exist, right? Another year went by, and then I realized something. You don't prove something doesnt exist, you prove that it DOES exist"

 

I say to you "Star Destroyers are real, and people can shoot lightning from their hands."

 

You don't have to prove that these things are fictional, I have to prove that they aren't! The same thing applies with God, in my opinion. Granted, that's where faith comes in. HOWEVER, to that end, I present this argument, set 300 years in the future:

 

There is a wonderful being called God.

To prove that God exists, here is a collection of stories, all of which are supposed to be true, telling of amazing deeds that tell you how to live your life (follow the 10 commandments, accept Jesus), and what your future will hold (eternal life in the kingdom of God).

 

There is a future in space, and it is called Star Trek.

To prove that Star Trek exists, I give to you all of the (now adequately ancient) novels, all of which are supposed to be true, telling of amazing deeds that tell you how to live your life (the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, live long and prosper), and what our future will hold (going into space and meeting aliens).

 

The second paragraph is, of course, absurd. In either case, however, someone who has never heard of the material has been asked to put faith in the validity of the books and their teachings. To someone who is ALREADY convinced of God, the faith that they associate with the Bible makes it hard to see that ANY book/teaching/philosophy that relies on its following's faith in its own validity will come off as the same to one who doesn't know or believe in that book/teaching/philosophy.

 

I guess the sum of it is that the burden of proof doesn't rest on the agnostic or atheist, but rather it rests on the believer (in any faith).

[PsychoInfiltrator]

You lost me on the Star Trek stuff, but I did some research and here is a direct quote taken from the FAQ at http://www.mormon:

 

Atonement

 

It is impossible to put into words the full meaning of the Atonement, which is the most important event in the history of the world. Through His suffering in the Garden of Gethsemane and on the cross, the Savior atoned for our sins. This is the good news for all people!

We can’t fully understand how Jesus suffered for our sins. But we know that in the Garden of Gethsemane, the weight of our sins caused Him to feel such agony that He bled from every pore (Luke 22:39–44).

 

Later, as He hung upon the cross, Jesus willingly suffered painful death by one of the most cruel methods ever known.

 

The Savior tells us:

 

 

For behold, I . . . have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer . . . even as I. [Doctrine and Covenants 19:16–17]

Jesus Christ did what only He could do in atoning for our sins. To make His Atonement fully effective in our individual lives, we must have faith in Christ, repent of our sins, be baptized, receive the Holy Ghost, obey God's commandments, and strive to become like Him. As we do these things through His Atonement, we can return to live with Him and our Heavenly Father forever.

 

The key difference is the part that I have bolded. Christians believe that faith alone is what gets you salvation: works do not.

The 'works' are a result of a Christian doing his/her best to please God, not because you get fried if you don't.

 

And as an aside, I know lots of 'non-religious' people who follow the same moral code. The laws of most countries follow the Ten Commandments for the most part. Following the Ten Commandments is both self and community preservation. Lying and stealing cause detrimental results. Murder lessens the number of people. Adultery destroys families. And so on and so forth.

 

Well, there beeth the Mormon question's answer. Sorry it to so long, but I had to do some looking and have the time to do it in. There's lots of other stuff that's not Biblical, but this is probably the most important thing.

[AdmiralToguroAni]

Thats still Christian, though. To say that it isn't would be to call Catholics non-Christian as they believe that they must do things like take Communion,confess, etc to enter Heaven. Granted its not what Protestants think is needed, and if the debate was "Are Mormons Protestants?" then I would wholeheartedly agree with you. However, their addendum doesn't take away their Christianity any more than Catholicism's practices.

 

edit: The link on your post didn't work. Could you please re-post it? I'd like to look over it so I can learn more.

[DarthTofu]

Just a quick side note, Psych- you said that Christians and Catholics believe that all they have to do is believe. Well, i was never the best Christian, but I'm pretty darn sure that there were several branches of Christianity in which people thought that helping their fellow man was important to get into Heaven (As in, not just Mormons). Just saying, not arguing.

[PsychoInfiltrator]

Adm Togura, I think we are going to have to agree to disagree.

 

 

The dictionary definition of Christian they may be, but Christians they are not. Christianity is a faith, not a religion. Mormonism is a religion.

 

The difference?

 

In a religion you do stuff to get something.

 

In a faith you have faith.

 

It is an unfortunate thing that Christianity is often called a religion. It is an unfortunate thing that many non Christians call themselves Christians because of deeds and do not have faith.

 

Does standing in Israel and claiming to be a Jew, beleiving in God's existence, eating non-koscher food and reading the Torah make you a true Jew?

No.

Does standing werever, claiming ot be a Christian, reading the Bible, and believing that works are what get you to Heaven make you a true Christian?

Also no.

 

Oh, and it wasn't a link. To find the site, search google for Mormon. It should be the first result. Clcik on FAQ, start scanning.[/i]

[Grand_Admiral_Thrawn]

Just to inject at thought here, there are two groups of people who use the term Christian in different ways. The first, who by the way are the minority, require you to believe in the doctrines established in 325 CE. These people claim Christianity as a religion unto itself, to the exclusion of other Christ oriented religions. The second, which fankly is how the majority of people use the term, is to include all faiths that recognise Jesus as the son of god, the holy trinity and all that jazz. This includes Catholics, Mormans, and Anglicans.

 

Now, I'm not religous, but I frankly find the post by Psyc a little offensive. If I believe in the Jewish faith, but choose not to follow the tradition of eating koscher food, guess what, I'm still a Jew. There is no such thing as a "true" follower of a religion, and to beleive otherwise is somewhat naive. A group of people can say they have read and believe in all the things written in a cetain scripture, but in the end they interpret it in a different manner, apply it to their life in a personal way. Religion is what you make of it not what one groups says it is or how a dictionary defines it.

 

Again, every one seems to be getting onto the road of saying what someone's religion is or isn't (and I suppose what I just wrote could be counted in there in a pinch), but that's not what we should be talking about. Look at the world today. Whether we like to admit it or not, the majority of the worlds problems right now can be pinned down to a difference in belief. It's pretty much always been this way to some extent. So I pose a question: what is it that makes it so hard for peoples of different beliefs to get along? Why must one faith force itself upon another? Why can't we just all believe what we will and get on with life?

 

I'm almost positive I've offended someone with this post, and I do apologise as that wasn't my intention (which is why I left my beliefs out of my post), so don't go on a flaming rant after this. just consider what I've written.

 

 

EDIT:In my post where I say I found Psyc's post offensive, that's not really what I meant. Well, it sort of is, but not at the strength that it comes accross as .

Edited October 23, 2005 by Grand_Admiral_Thrawn

[AdmiralToguroAni]

I'm with Thrawn on this. He managed to say in one post what I've been trying to do all this time. Shows how eloquent I am, lol

[PsychoInfiltrator]

I'm afraid that I have been misunderstood. I never intended to offend ANYBODY. I've been busy on a major school project and my tohught patterns are screwy, I'm sure at least soem of you understand that. Nevertheless, I am sorry about this misunderstanding.

 

Let me rephrase it.

 

If somebody calls him/herself a Jew, shares a few similar belefs, but does not adhere to the belief system and/or customs of Judaism, in fact has many beliefs contrary to the very core of Judaism, are they still a Jew?

 

No.

[AdmiralToguroAni]

The things "at the core" of a religion are often debatable too. No one misunderstood you, we just heard what you have to say and disagree with you. Let me explain:

 

At the core of catholics: Belief in and worship of the Holy Trinity, the taking of communion, and the confession system. Some of these are not found in the bible, yet are at the core of the system. In fact, the idea that a person must confess to a human mediator goes against a core value of Protestant and Mormon Christianity. Does this mean that they aren't Christian? Of course not, thats absurd. The Catholics have their own explanation for why these things are necessary, and they are integrated into the religion.

 

Protestants: Note that this is the broadest due to the sheer number of denominations, but most will agree that you only need to accept Jesus into your heart to get into Heaven. This is against what the Catholics believe, and the Jews, who use the Old Testament believe, but they believe in the authenticity of the New Testament and nothing that comes after. Does that make them not Christian? Of course not.

 

Mormons are the same. They believe that the book of Mormon is canon, love and worship Jesus, but believe an additional book is Canon. Psych judged them to be nonchristian because he believed that they were only worshipping Christ to get to heaven. This may or may not be true. Psych does not believe them to be Christian, and he is unapologetic for it. Jesus said "Judge not lest you be judged." Psych has clearly judged Mormons, believers in Christ, to be non-christian. Does not following the exact phrases of the Bible but still believing in Jesus make him non-Christian? Of course not.

[DarthTofu]

okay, so let me get this all straight: psych is saying that you just need to believe to get into heaven. Togunari is saying that most branches of Christianity intersect a whole lot and that you need to not only believe but also follow biblical teachings for heaven. AM I right, or wrong here, 'cause now I'm just getting confused... My brain cell can't handle all this info!

[AdmiralToguroAni]

I admit its confusing. I'll let psych speak for himself, but what I'm saying is essentially....

 

Catholics beleive that you have to go to mass, take communion, believe in and accept Jesus, and confess your sins to get to heaven. Thats why suicide is always a one-way ticket to Hell with them, because you can't repent when you're dead.

 

Protestants believe you merely have to love and accept Jesus into your heart to get to heaven, but apparently different denominations have different ideas on what that entails. Mormons are similar.

 

Like you said, they all intersect in various ways, but thats pretty much the core beliefs, I think. Kaja is Catholic if I remember right, so maybe he could shed some light.

 

By the way, Tofu; its "Toguro Ani", not Togunari. If you want, you can call me Toguro or Ani, your call.

[PsychoInfiltrator]

Whether I was misunderstood or not, nobody found my comment offensive after I reworded it, so it was probably a good thing I did.

 

Now the stuff about Catholoscism is wrong, AFAIK. Going to mass is alot like what Protestants and non-denominational Christian groups call going to church. Its a good thing, you should do it.

The confessing to the priest I'm a little more unclear about, but I do know a lot of Catholics who do not do that.

 

 

Mormons are the same. They believe that the book of Mormon is canon, love and worship Jesus, but believe an additional book is Canon. Psych judged them to be nonchristian because he believed that they were only worshipping Christ to get to heaven. This may or may not be true. Psych does not believe them to be Christian, and he is unapologetic for it. Jesus said "Judge not lest you be judged." Psych has clearly judged Mormons, believers in Christ, to be non-christian. Does not following the exact phrases of the Bible but still believing in Jesus make him non-Christian? Of course not.

 

If they are believers in Christ, why do they not believe wht He said to be the Truth? He said that works have nothing to do with it. Why don't they believe the many other times in the Bible where it says that? Why do they practice so many other anti-Biblical practices? I'll admit that many non-Catholics do that, generally with different things, but that's not who I'm talking aobut. I'll admit alot of Catholics follow procedures that aren't Biblical; but taking the example of both confessing to the priest and to God, confession to another person is not unBiblical, and can often help the situation. AFAIK, not all that many Catholics (at least around here) believe that you must confess to the priest.

 

And I don't think I am judging Mormons the way you say I am. I am saying that in general Mormons are not Chrisitans. In general, mice will eat cheese. Does that mean I am judging mice too?

 

And please don't use Jewish beliefs as a rationale for why osmebody is a christian, because, exempting the Messianic Jews, (fancy title for Jews who have become Christians) they aren't.

 

The things "at the core" of a religion are often debatable too.

 

No, the things perceived by others to be at the core are often debatable. I'm pretty sure all Jews believe God exists, for example.

 

 

And just in advance, can we stay away from talking about non-practising people, because it gets alot more complicated when it comes to them.