Deathwatch Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Redoing the fighter balance should be good. I would like to see more use for TF/TI etc, but cost-effectiveness they don't come close to the better fighters so no use in taking them at the moment. But it has to be done carefully not to devaluate the advanced fighters too. Besides that, I agree with what Kob says about the time fights take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyblazer Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 well 4 kwings remain in the fight and offically have been the longest lasting small craft ive sent into combat. I wouldn't mind knowing the final death tally on all sides after this. 296 Claw craft, 3 Neb B's, and soon enough 27 K wing's lost. Oh btw the Kwing's decided to be big meanies to a YT2000 earlyer for some reason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathwatch Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Once I get home in a few hours I can give some list of that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kobra_warlords Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 (edited) I've been away since last night, so I have no idea (yet) what my units have killed in that period of time. My losses, however, amount to 69 TDs. EDIT: Woah, I just read the report for the 15 turns or so I missed... what a bloodbath!!! Edited June 10, 2008 by Kobra_warlords Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General_Antillies Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Before the K-Wings engaged the fighters I lost:1 AW After the K-Wings engaged I lost:3 AW13 EW2 XJW So Total is:4 AW13 EW2 XJW All of my Wing Leaders except for Osprey Leader (AW) died to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathwatch Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Incoming spam re. losses which I detected:Destroyed Ships: EWING Lakonia Three KWING Flying Fortress 15 EWING Achilles Twelve TD Sigma 10 KWING Flying Fortress 17 TD Gamma 11 TD Gamma 5 NFRG Onto Glory AWING Osprey Four KWING Flying Fortress 14 KWING Flying Fortress 9 EWING Lakonia Four KWING Flying Fortress 18 TD Sigma 6 EWING Lakonia Eleven TD Gamma 9 TD Alpha 22 EWING Lakonia Leader KWING Flying Fortress 7 AWING Osprey Two TD Delta 15 AWING New AWING TD Gamma Leader KWING New KWING AWING New AWING NFRG Freelife AWING New AWING KWING Flying Fortress 13 AWING New AWING EWING Achilles Three AWING New AWING EWING Achilles Eight AWING New AWING KWING Flying Fortress 12 AWING New AWING TD Alpha 3 AWING New AWING KWING Flying Fortress 1 AWING New AWING EWING Lakonia Seven AWING New AWING AWING New AWING XJWING Phalanx Leader KWING New KWING AWING New AWING AWING New AWING TD Sigma 4 KWING New KWING AWING New AWING KWING Flying Fortress 10 KWING Flying Fortress 5 AWING New AWING AWING New AWING TD Alpha 6 AWING New AWING AWING New AWING AWING New AWING AWING New AWING AWING New AWING AWING New AWING TD Alpha 11 AWING New AWING AWING New AWING AWING New AWING AWING New AWING AWING New AWING AWING New AWING AWING New AWING AWING New AWING AWING New AWING AWING New AWING AWING New AWING AWING New AWING TD Kappa 11 AWING New AWING AWING New AWING AWING New AWING AWING New AWING AWING New AWING TD Sigma 11 AWING New AWING NFRG Insight AWING New AWING AWING New AWING AWING New AWING AWING New AWING AWING New AWING AWING New AWING AWING New AWING AWING New AWING KWING Flying Fortress 3 KWING New KWING EWING Lakonia Ten TD Alpha Leader KWING Flying Fortress 11 KWING New KWING AWING New AWING TD Sigma 18 AWING Osprey Five KWING New KWING AWING New AWING KWING New KWING TD Beta 2 TD Alpha 14 EWING Achilles Leader TD Gamma 14 KWING Flying Fortress 8 TD Gamma 17 EWING Achilles Eleven KWING Flying Fortress 2 TD Beta 6 TD Delta 23 TD Gamma 19 KWING Flying Fortress 6 KWING New KWING EWING Achilles Seven TD Delta 13 KWING New KWING BWING New BWING BWING New BWING BWING New BWING BWING New BWING KWING Flying Fortress 4 BWING New BWING BWING New BWING BWING New BWING BWING New BWING BWING New BWING BWING New BWING BWING New BWING BWING New BWING BWING New BWING TD Delta 11 BWING New BWING TD Sigma 2 BWING New BWING BWING New BWING BWING New BWING BWING New BWING BWING New BWING XJWING Phalanx Nine BWING New BWING BWING New BWING BWING New BWING BWING New BWING TD Alpha 9 BWING New BWING BWING New BWING BWING New BWING BWING New BWING BWING New BWING BWING New BWING BWING New BWING BWING New BWING BWING New BWING TD Kappa 23 TD Sigma 3 TD Gamma 7 BWING New BWING BWING New BWING BWING New BWING BWING New BWING XG1 Gamma 5 BWING New BWING XG1 Gamma 4 BWING New BWING BWING New BWING BWING New BWING XG1 Gamma 8 BWING New BWING XG1 Gamma 7 XG1 Gamma 2 BWING New BWING XG1 Gamma 6 BWING New BWING XG1 Gamma 11 XG1 Gamma 3 BWING New BWING BWING New BWING XG1 Gamma 14 XG1 Gamma 10 XG1 Gamma 1 BWING New BWING XG1 Gamma 13 BWING New BWING BWING New BWING BWING New BWING BWING New BWING XG1 Gamma 9 Jumped Ships: TD Gamma 19 TD Sigma 1 TD Kappa 20 TD Kappa 9 TD Gamma 7 TD Gamma 12 TD Kappa 22 TD Gamma 16 TD Kappa 14 TD Sigma 14 TD Gamma 9 TD Kappa 12 TD Gamma 20 TD Sigma 4 TD Kappa 23 TD Kappa 4 TD Gamma 15 TD Kappa 6 TD Sigma 11 TD Sigma 24 TD Kappa 2 TD Sigma 17 TD Sigma 22 TD Sigma 21 TD Sigma 12 TD Gamma 11 TD Gamma 24 TD Gamma 8 TD Kappa 10 TD Kappa 1 TD Gamma 4 TD Gamma 13 TD Gamma 22 TD Sigma 9 TD Gamma 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevefin_warlords Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 alot of TD losses at he very end Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markb50k Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 I did notice that BWINGs were doing a nice job against TDs as well (at certain parts of the battle) but the battlefield was so full of stuff it was hard to make supportable conclusions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathwatch Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 The list also shows the ships jumped in that report file, which was mainly TDs. I think the TD losses is the point where due to fuel running out - which was a problem as both myself and Kobra were not able to manage our fleet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathwatch Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 It does appear that with the addition of missles, the fighters are now much stronger. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to attend my fleet much in the past few days due to being very busy - hence the result of my fleet losing with minimal resistance. I believe the same goes for Kobra. Losses/Jumps:Destroyed Ships: TD Kappa 23 TD Sigma 16 TD Kappa 14 TD Sigma 6 TD Sigma 10 TD Sigma 5 XG1 Gamma 14 XG1 Gamma 6 XG1 Gamma 10 XG1 Gamma 4 CRRCK Guillotine (own) EWING Lakonia Nine XG1 Gamma 7 XG1 Gamma 5 EWING Achilles Nine XG1 Gamma 8 AWING Osprey Eight XG1 Gamma 1 XJWING Phalanx Ten EWING Lakonia Leader AWING Osprey Leader AWING Osprey Nine AWING Osprey Three MNFRG Tiger AWING Osprey Twelve MNFRG Speckled Hen CLGUN New CLGUN EWING Lakonia Twelve XJWING Phalanx Twelve CHGUN Comanche EWING Achilles Six EWING Lakonia Five XJWING Phalanx Four EWING Lakonia Two XJWING Phalanx Eleven EWING Achilles Four XG1 New XG1 XG1 New XG1 XJWING Phalanx Five TD Kappa 15 XG1 New XG1 CPC Cracker (own) AWING Osprey Seven XG1 New XG1 EWING Achilles Five XG1 New XG1 CGUN New CGUN CGUN Impaler (own) XJWING Phalanx Three XJWING Phalanx Six XJWING Phalanx Seven AWING Osprey Eleven AWING Osprey Ten EWING Lakonia Six EWING Lakonia Eight TD Gamma 13 TD Kappa 13 TD Gamma 15 TD Gamma 3 TD Gamma 7 TD Kappa 10 TD Kappa 7 TD Gamma 12 TD Kappa 1 TD Gamma 11 TD Gamma 21 TD Kappa 6 TD Gamma 9 TD Gamma 17 TD Kappa 4 TD Gamma 4 Jumped Ships: LIBRTR Home Base One Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathwatch Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Sorry, but I have to do this:LOST CONTACT with EIDLN Galatea at S:50100,50100 pos:5006355,5113394 (DESTROYED) That ship survived forever! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idle_Scholar Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Damn you. Damn you to hell! :'( 1 shotted by TB's as well. And one of your ships should have been called the Lucifer. It would have been fitting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathwatch Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 ;D The EIDLN had to go though, I think it survived three big battles and managed to escape destruction every time. I think the EIDLN lasted 2 cycles in that turn to go from 100% hull to destroyed. There were 144 TBs going for the EIDLN - a few died early on. Actually, due to some dock & jump order mistake there were some TBs left behind as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idle_Scholar Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 We were thinking maybe PT's need their range shortening a bit. To give interceptors a bit more of a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markb50k Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 what does everyone think about a better range for the PT. I agree that with the current engine and immediate hits, 10km is a big advantage over interceptors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathwatch Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 I would limit the fighters that can carry PTs really. The loadout change thing makes some bombers even more deadly. Of course, the value of the total nr of bombers I put in was far more than the EIDLN was (it was 220k worth of TBs and NFRGs). But I destroyed a LIBRTR as well in 5 cycles of a turn. To be honest, bombers should be this deadly - the TBs I used are quite weak, usually 1 or 2 shots from anything takes them down (sidenote: the unshielded fighters are way too weak compared to the shielded ones and overpriced as well in my opinion, especially if you consider the huge drawback of having to have a carrier) so any decent CAP/CSP of fighters would've done significant damage to them. It is the PTs that really make bombers worth it - you don't want them for anything else as they just are too weak. (and hit shields) But they are also slow so you need to provide cover for them, which is a fair tradeoff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathwatch Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 From the moment I jumped in, this is what happened in my detection range. I don't think all kills are mine but not sure:Destroyed Ships: TB Kappa 28 (own) TB Epsilon 29 (own) TB Rho 26 (own) TB Sigma 16 (own) TB Sigma 3 (own) TB Epsilon 36 (own) TB Epsilon 15 (own) TB Sigma 12 (own) TB Rho 15 (own) TB Rho 4 (own) TB Rho 20 (own) TD Omega 16 EIDLN Galatea TD Omega 12 TD Omega 14 TD Omega 24 TD Omega 19 KWING Gamma 9 KWING Gamma 11 KWING Gamma 22 KWING Gamma 5 KWING Gamma 20 KWING Gamma 4 KWING Gamma 16 KWING Gamma 2 TB Rho 2 (own) TB Sigma 33 (own) KWING Fortress Squadron 2 KWING Fortress Squadron 1 KWING Blaze Squadron 6 KWING Blaze Squadron 9 KWING Fortress Squadron 4 KWING Blaze Squadron 8 KWING Fortress Squadron 6 KWING Fortress Squadron 7 KWING Blaze Squadron 1 KWING Blaze Squadron 5 KWING Fortress Squadron 9 TB Rho 19 (own) TB Rho 25 (own) TB Rho 36 (own) TB Sigma 18 (own) TB Kappa 6 (own) TB Epsilon 18 (own) TB Rho 27 (own) TB Rho 31 (own) TB Epsilon 23 (own) TB Sigma 29 (own) TB Rho 7 (own) TB Sigma 24 (own) TB Rho 32 (own) TB Sigma 6 (own) TB Rho 29 (own) TB Sigma 2 (own) LIBRTR Home Base One KWING Gamma 21 KWING Gamma 17 KWING Blaze Squadron 2 KWING Blaze Squadron 4 KWING Fortress Squadron 3 KWING Blaze Squadron 7 KWING Gamma 12 KWING Blaze Squadron 3 KWING Fortress Squadron 8 KWING Fortress Squadron 5 For those that are interested, I'm using a very easy (and very sloppy) parser for the log files to extract all the destroyed/jumped ships made in Autohotkey. The code for that is as follows:FileSelectFile, SourceFile, 3,, Pick a report file to analyze. if SourceFile = return ; This will exit in this case. OutputDest = Destroyed Ships: OutputJump = Jumped Ships: Loop, read, %SourceFile% { Loop, parse, A_LoopReadLine, `n,`r { RegExMatch(A_LoopField,"i)LOST CONTACT with (.*) at.*DESTROYED.*",DestPat) RegExMatch(A_LoopField,"i)(.*) destroyed",Dest2Pat) RegExMatch(A_LoopField,"i)LOST CONTACT with (.*) at.*JUMPED.*",JumpPat) if DestPat1 OutputDest = %OutputDest%`n%DestPat1% if Dest2Pat1 { IfInString,Dest2Pat1,Onboard System(s) break else OutputDest = %OutputDest%`n%Dest2Pat1% (own) } if JumpPat OutputJump = %OutputJump%`n%JumpPat1% } } MsgBox,%OutputDest%`n`n%OutputJump% Clipboard = %OutputDest%`n`n%OutputJump% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyblazer Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 u know just for the hell of it i think Mark should send a SSD right into the middle of the combat zone and see how long it takes us to kill it oh and give us an extra 200k points to spend as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idle_Scholar Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 You could also make it so PT's hit shields. But yeah I don't see a massive amount wrong with what just happened. Without gravewell generators it'll always be possible to get 100 things with PT's together and jump in right next to an enemy cap-ship. I think the trick is to balance it so that, if you start form 10km away or something, and you have even points and a CAP your capital ships stand a chance. The main thing you've got to be carefull of is not making it so that fighters/bombers are more effective in some combination than their cost in capital ships. To be honest, what I'd do in the main game is make it so that fighters and bombers are less cost effective, but much easier/take less time to build and keep supplied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idle_Scholar Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 The best way of testing things would be to take two fleets of 5 NFRG's and see what combination of figter/bomber loadout is optimal. Trouble is that's a bit difficult the way the games currently set up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kobra_warlords Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 what does everyone think about a better range for the PT. I agree that with the current engine and immediate hits, 10km is a big advantage over interceptors. Well, in theory the 'weakness' of PTs is that they can be shot down (the longer range the delivery, the higher the chance). I can imagine implementing this would require some non-trivial re-coding... You could give them a relatively high miss rate, even against capital ships - at least as long as they are moving. And a very very narrow arc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathwatch Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 I wouldn't make the PTs have a lower chance to hit. Just restrict them to the bombers that can carry it. The bombers themselves are quite fragile or really expensive, and in all cases they are pretty easy targets for fighters to intercept. But I reckon that it's an acceptable tactic which I used - in normal fights, bombers will need to have cover to get through. In this case, I could jump on top of the EIDLN and LIBRTR and had the benefit of them not having any fighters on patrol near them other than some KWINGs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markb50k Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Actually, a 'flak factor' for ships based on the types and numbers of weapons on it has been an idea of mine for a while, and it might be implementable pretty quickly (after i figure out this fleet stuff). In the meantime, I was thinking of bringing the range of PT down to say 7000 or something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idle_Scholar Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 To be honest, a quite short range like 3.5km would simulate a flack barrage quite well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathwatch Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 7000m wouldn't be too bad (its 10km now?) - but don't make it too weak as i said. I would definately recommend removing the ability to allow all fighters with CMs to switch to PTs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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