OFFICIAL: Combat Discussion

[Turgidson]

Also I really think there's something 'off' with the speed of combat. It's generally over in two turns, sometimes three, and that doesn't really give you much chance to influence what's going on. It might be better with the really large capital ships but once the main game starts is everyone going to be wandering around with fleets of SD's as their standard unit?

From my point of view:

 

If combat is relatively fast (a matter of a few turns; max 5-10 turns - less than half a human day) and you can influence it, you have to be lucky/be in the right timezone so you're online when it happens. Or be an insomniac geek. Not good for a 24/24h game...

 

If we wish to be fair with the timezones, battles have to be fairly long, so that loging in 10-15 turns after your opponent doesn't put to to an extreme disadvantage. I've got the feeling this would mean battles lasting a good 50 turns at least (or ~30 turns, considering mechanisms that'd force a slower approach phase - e.g. INTs, though their current range seems low -  and "relatively fast" combat behaviour once engaged). And with player's activity having relatively few immediate effects on the battle (otherwise, you'd need to be continuously online...).

Then... the battles timescale starts to mess with the strategic timescale - something that's been in case in most RTS but distracts from "realism" (if we wanted this a "simulation").

 

 

The other solution would consist in giving players a way to be effective while away. This means: scripts!

Edited June 3, 2008 by Turg

[Stryker_warlords]

Capship combat is going fairly quickly at the moment from what I've seen. Took myself and Skyblazer three turns to take out an AF. My own Dread would have fallen next turn if anything else turned up with Skyblazer's caps not far behind. At the current speed,  a single person's fleet could drastically change the tide of a battle, if it's still going on by the time they get there.

[General_Antillies]

Yah that was my AFRG . I went to bed around midnight my time, woke up and my whole fleet was gone. I'm a big fan of having the battles last a little bit longer seeing as I've never actually been present for my ships being attacked . Also, I'm not sure if my fighters even moved or fired during the battle or just died.

 

 

Edit: Also, for some reason my bookmark for the home page isn't working. Is there a new address or something?

Edited June 4, 2008 by General_Antilles

[Stevefin_warlords]

in a few turns i will have my 1st combat. i can see some tie adv bombers and 2 dreads

[Stryker_warlords]

Yah that was my AFRG . I went to bed around midnight my time, woke up and my whole fleet was gone. I'm a big fan of having the battles last a little bit longer seeing as I've never actually been present for my ships being attacked . Also, I'm not sure if my fighters even moved or fired during the battle or just died.

 

I'm presuming the fighters just sat there and died. My logs don't show taking any hits from them and we were almost right on top of each other.

[markb50k]

after I posted that I was ratcheting down the damage speed, i dropped it from 0.5 to 0.1, meaning battles and deaths would take 5 times longer.  I am not sure if the battles you are talking about were under the old 'faster' battle or the new code.

 

also, as for fighters sitting there, IF you see a good indication that your ships did not react to enemy, AND they were in ATTACK, PATROL, or DEFEND order, then let me know.  That should not be happening anymore, not since over a day ago when I fixed that code.  If they are in ESCORT mode or no orders, they will just sit there and only fire if their weapons arcs just happen to be facing the enemy.

[General_Antillies]

They were in Escort mode so thats why they didn't fire. However, what is the point of escorting a ship if they sit there and watch it die?

[Deathwatch]

That does explain the fighter behavior we've seen.

 

But in order to make fighter escorts possible, maybe have a special sort of escort option for the fighters (CAP - Combat Air Patrol...well, CSP as it should be Space ) which moves them with the ship they are escorting but allows them to engage things within a certain radius?

Edited June 4, 2008 by Deathwatch

[markb50k]

They were in Escort mode so thats why they didn't fire. However, what is the point of escorting a ship if they sit there and watch it die?

 

ESCORT in my opinion is not a mission that is very useful for fighters.  Instead you should just dock your fighters and put them on ATTACK orders.  As long as no enemy are detected in sector, they will just sit there onboard.  The moment an enemy is detected they will launch and attack the target.  Having fighters on ESCORT is really only a "looks cool" thing. 

 

Now, as Deathwatch says, perhaps I could look at a new order, like CAP that will be like an attack order but with a specified range they react within.  I'll start looking at that.

[Deathwatch]

Actually that behavior (docked until something is in range - but what range?) is actually quite interesting. Do the fighters dock again once things are out of range again? (I assume not but still)

[Stevefin_warlords]

well im still yet to see battle but by looking where there are ships looks like some one needs/ed help. moving ships are so slow

[Kobra_warlords]

So ESCORT keeps units anchored to their spot? Interesting. Explains why my fighters got decimated, too.

 

Suggestion: when giving the ESCORT order, prompt the user for a "chase" range. This is the radius (from their ESCORT position, not necessarily the escorted unit) within which the escorts will freely move and attack. If there are no eligible targets (i.e. valid targets at a distance less than (chase radius + attack range)), they will return to their ESCORT position.

 

If the given chase range is 0, units will behave just as they do now.

[Idle_Scholar]

Has anyone been able to sucessfully salvage weapons and then re-arm the missiles on fighters?

[Deathwatch]

well im still yet to see battle but by looking where there are ships looks like some one needs/ed help. moving ships are so slow

To move ships faster, do an JUMP command, much better. Just keep in mind it usually takes a few turns to move ships that way.

 

Has anyone been able to sucessfully salvage weapons and then re-arm the missiles on fighters?

Nope, but have to admit I haven't tried. I DID see something fire a CM at some point though, which means that something did have the ammo.

[markb50k]

Has anyone been able to sucessfully salvage weapons and then re-arm the missiles on fighters?

 

I have seen it in action.  every cycle, i.e. 10 times a turns, any ship that has WEAPONS on it will use some of that to fill up its magazines, 0.1 weapon per warhead.

 

Any fighters docked on a ship that has WEAPONS in its cargo hold (not in its Magazine) will fill from the mothership at the same rate mentioned above.

[markb50k]

So ESCORT keeps units anchored to their spot? Interesting. Explains why my fighters got decimated, too.

 

Suggestion: when giving the ESCORT order, prompt the user for a "chase" range. This is the radius (from their ESCORT position, not necessarily the escorted unit) within which the escorts will freely move and attack. If there are no eligible targets (i.e. valid targets at a distance less than (chase radius + attack range)), they will return to their ESCORT position.

 

If the given chase range is 0, units will behave just as they do now.

 

That functionality is the next enhancement I will put in the game.  Right now i am doing some behind the scenes server stuff that will allow me to run the game permanently from my home PC and be able to do code swaps from my laptop quickly if there is an error.  I am almost finished with that, so I'll be able to change the ESCORT order soon after.

[markb50k]

Holy crap, looking at the maelstrom that is happening in the warzone.  I see a couple of AFRGs, an EIDLN, a BELRUS, CC9600, and many gunships duking it out with tons of fighters around.

 

Seems a bunch of ARC170s are sitting ducks with no orders and are being chewed up by TDs.

 

Looking good, folks.  Way to slug it out!

[markb50k]

if anyone has some good screenshots please send them to me and I will host them and post them here.

[Deathwatch]

Yeah it's a great fight.

 

I do have a question though - the repairing that some ships do, does that do anything? I saw several of my ships coming up with the repaired 5 points of hull dmg message, but they seem rather broken still.

[markb50k]

yeah, repairs do something, although in the middle of battle their wont be enough repairs to make a diff.

 

repairs are done either of two ways..

 

the crew can repair with no need of supplies ... not very common, especially on small ships.  the more crewmember the more chance of one of these kinds of repairs

 

if the ship has supplies onboard it can use those supplies to repair hull damage or damaged weapons/shields.  more common than crew repairs but still not super common.

 

definitely tho a ship that retreats to a safe sector sitting there will eventually repair itself to whole.

 

Here is a screenshot of the battle.  I selected as many ships as i could so you can see the targeting.

 

http://galsim.nickersonm.com/gs_ss3.jpg

[skyblazer]

Yeah the battle is between the Allied forces of me, styker, styver, and I think Stevefin although I'm not sure if hes gotten into the group properly yet vs Kobra and Deathwatch. However Crackerjack Bayonet was around for a little while at the start which distracted my forces as I jumped them to destroy his Bayonet. The resulting distraction caused me to be to close to the AF's which had just appeared on scanners and forced my fleet to move in by sublight engines alone. Stykers force had already jumped in to engage however with a heavly damaged dreadnought and only a few supporting ships his forces were promptly taken out. I'm not sure what happen to Styver's bunch of Thranta frigates however I bet they were destroyed also.

 

Right now my little fleet with a bit of reinforcement from Styver is all thats engaged right now and 1 of those AF's should be down and out by the time the rest of my fleet is destroyed.

 

Whats funny is I was getting bored of never seeing any targets to go fight but it turns out the waiting was worth it now with Kobra and Deathwatch back in the fight ^^

[Idle_Scholar]

Yeah my (Styver) Thranta's got taken out trying to shoot down TD's, before I could give them proper targets. The Eidolon of mine was supposed to disgorge a bunch of non hyper capeable fighters but only one of them actually docked before it jumped. Oh well at least it undocked and moved to engage some TD's as per the docked/attack thingy.

[Kobra_warlords]

I think we're giving you guys a good run for your money

 

Nice fight indeed!

[Stevefin_warlords]

that was my arc170's and they seem to disobey attack orders. only one this morning when i woke up went and attacked

[Idle_Scholar]

I like how the Assault Frigates appear to be spinning on the spot.