OFFICIAL: Combat Discussion

[Deathwatch]

I've noticed the same behavior in fighters, although they do seem to be somewhat working if you jump them next to others.

 

What I did notice is that I couldn't engage the MNFRG from Turg though. Skyblazer, as you were right next to him for a long duration, have you tried to engage the MNFRG Pike? It appears that I was trying to engage ships that were already destroyed as my cache folder didn't update.

 

If you notice that some ships do nothing against you, just delete your u## dir and u##.ini and log back in, the game will refresh it.

Edited June 2, 2008 by Deathwatch

[Aroth]

Actually Deathwatch, it wasn't the cache that was the problem - nor are you imagining things

 

The Pike isn't, to my knowledge, an MNFRG - what it is is a Bayonet that jumped into the warzone, directly on top of a destroyed MNFRG, which it looted for parts, and then immedieately jumped away again - it was only in the warzone for 4 turns, but it apparently blew some stuff up while it was there. Which, btw, brings up a new bug report:

 

Well, I can now verify that HTLBs only fire once every two cycles... Unfortunately, so do my LCs! My guess is that it has something to do with the fact that they share 'weapon sections' with the HTLBs.

[markb50k]

ok, it seems there may be some issues with destroyed ships not clearing off your scopes.  I will look into that.  what is SUPPOSED to happen is when you login your user file gets updated with detections that it can see and not see.  if it cannot see the ship, the file should get deleted out of your DB.  As I am writing this I am realizing what might be causing the problem, so I will probably put out a new galsim zip very soon if that is indeed the issue.

 

As for the LCs only firing once every two cycles, I cant see how that is happening, but I will look into it as well.

[markb50k]

Fixed the LCs not firing..

 

As for the problems seeing dead ships after they are dead, I still need to do more testing.  The next time Turg, Bas, or Kobra logs in, contact me and I want to test out some things with you.

[Turgidson]

I've actually noticed some "unresponsive" units belonging to me... various saves didn't remove the issue, until I cleared the Ux folder and Ux.ini file - which promptly removed these "undead" units.

 

So I guess that during earlier times (Tripod's nasty server ? Some other bugs ?), something got corrupted on the player's side... The MNFRG Pike is (alas) pretty dead since long ago.

[markb50k]

problems with 'undead' ship that YOU own are alot more troublesome, so has that happened recently since switching servers (meaning that you were still seeing YOUR ships that had been dead for a while)?  Others are seeing 'undead' ENEMY ships that havent cleared, which is what I am trying to look at.  So could you clarify what you were seeing and when?  Thanks. Edited June 2, 2008 by markb50k

[markb50k]

Well, unresponsive ships in ATTACK mode was the result of a coding bug I had in there after I put in the "attack any of the 5 closest enemies that fit the criteria" change over the weekend.  I have fixed that.

 

Not sure if the undead ships still on your radars is still a problem...

[Turgidson]

problems with 'undead' ship that YOU own are alot more troublesome, so has that happened recently since switching servers (meaning that you were still seeing YOUR ships that had been dead for a while)?  Others are seeing 'undead' ENEMY ships that havent cleared, which is what I am trying to look at.  So could you clarify what you were seeing and when?  Thanks.

One TD, that refused to take "jump" orders (or, any other orders...) and stayed in its zone for quite a long time. Clearing the Ux folder and Ux.ini solved the issue: the unit just disappeared.

 

Note that, a long time ago, I had started with slightly more TDs, and a few went missing for no reason during the Tripod times (I had huge difficulties uploading the orders, it repeatedly gave a "retry" error message). If I remember correctly, the bug appeared back then, with this "stubborn" TD refusing to take orders. It got carried on until recently, when after my fleet died, and that stupid unit still stood there, I cleansed my files. I've seen nothing wrong recently, though (I seem to remember seeing a few other TDs disappearing after I cleansed, but this might have been due to them being killed following an End-of-turn - not really sure, this was quite some time ago already).

[Deathwatch]

Cracker Jacker - I did see the BAYONET jump in, it's just that there was an MNFRG with the same name before with a swarm of TDs. They couldn't be engaged or anything, but clearing the U##.ini and the U## dir did remove them.

 

For now the problem just seemed to be a caching issue, but if it happens again in the future I'll back things up.

[Aroth]

wow... that's one hell of a coincidence that both Turg and I have a ship named Pike...

[Deathwatch]

I think you two should fight it out to see who can keep the name

[skyblazer]

Fighters are still not fixed. I just lost 36 XJ's to a mixer of LC, TLB's, and TLC's all of which seemed to get 100% hits on my fighters... Good sign they never moved about trying to be hard targets.

[Stevefin_warlords]

ive yet to see combat. my ship's like my far starting location so they are stubborn

[skyblazer]

ive yet to see combat. my ship's like my far starting location so they are stubborn

 

Well while the timer is still seen running give them a jump order and press save. If u don't u'll lose the order and nothing will happen.

[Stevefin_warlords]

well that fixed it. but they are going the wrong way in jump and i cant change it (est time 2000000+ secs 0_o)

[skyblazer]

cancel that jump. look for the combat sector which is 50100,50100 or u'll be waiting a few weeks before u come out of hyperspace again :S

[Stevefin_warlords]

cant cancel. but i can slow them down and then someone can some and kill me

EDIT: i cant

[Stryker_warlords]

The smallest ship I've actually seen do anything is a Skipray Blastboat. I had twenty other fighters in a combat zone the turn before and not a single one has done anything other than take a few hits then blow up. Even the ones that survived more than one turn didn't do anything.

[Turgidson]

wow... that's one hell of a coincidence that both Turg and I have a ship named Pike...

Dunno if that's so much a coincidence, ancient weapons are one of the naming series I've previously used, for some of my ships, and that I quite like (Pike, Spear, Sword, Sabre, Dagger, Axe, Arbalest, Bow, Javelin...).

[markb50k]

ok, I have been doing more tweaking to the hit calculations for combat.  Here are how the rules are being implemented

 

//	using accuracy of weapon figure real shot
double accuracy = weapon_spec.accuracy * SimConstants.ACCURACY_MODIFIER;

//adjust accuracy by agility and speed of target ship
double dodge_factor = ttspec.horizontal_turn_rate / 25.0 * tt.speed / 250.0 * ((Math.random() * 0.5) + 0.5);		
//adjust accuracy by agility and speed of firing ship
SimObjectSpec spec = getSpec(o.type);
double anti_dodge_factor = spec.horizontal_turn_rate / 25.0 * o.speed / 250.0 * Math.random();				

if(SimConstants.getMissileWeapons().contains(weapon_spec.id))
	dodge_factor = dodge_factor * ((Double)SimConstants.getMissileDodgePenalties().get(weapon_spec.id)).doubleValue();

accuracy = accuracy + Math.max(0, dodge_factor - anti_dodge_factor);

 

what this does is gives fighters an advantage against fighters since the fighters high turn rates and speed counterract some of the dodge ability of the target ship.  Randomness is thrown in, but the dodge factor of the target is only cut up to 50%, while the dodge factor of the attacker could be randomized down near to zero.

 

 

As for Strykers jumped ships, I will try to pull them out of hyperspace, which brings up a question.  In EvR and now in Galsim, once you jump you cant change the order.  Do we still want that?  Canon aside, its something that is real annoying and I would like your thoughts.

[markb50k]

Sorry, I meant SteveFin's ships

[Turgidson]

As for Strykers jumped ships, I will try to pull them out of hyperspace, which brings up a question.  In EvR and now in Galsim, once you jump you cant change the order.  Do we still want that?  Canon aside, its something that is real annoying and I would like your thoughts.

IMHO, hyperspace should not be modifiable on the fly - this makes proper planning more important. The annoyance only comes when the jumping destination was mistakenly entered (HMI / interface mistake) - nowadays, though, you can still cancel while the units calculate the jump, and one can always check his orders on the map. If the jump was properly entered, and people change their mind afterwards... then, well, that's THEIR own fault (strategic mistake).

 

It's a good thing that hyperjumps have their tradeoffs; people can decide whether they prefer shorter jumps that'll be more flexible, or longer jumps that'll eat less calc time. If we simplify things too much, if we make this too forgiving, we'll deprive this game of some of its depth.

 

 

In case people would wish to have modifiable jump orders, I'd suggest to put a hefty penalty on it - like 50 turns before the unit reacts, maybe even much more (one day ~20 turns or slightly more, so a 50 turns penalty isn't that huge - perhaps 100 turns would be better).

[Idle_Scholar]

You could also put a maximum (time) limit so people can't mistakenly make ridiculously long jumps.

 

Also I really think there's something 'off' with the speed of combat. It's generally over in two turns, sometimes three, and that doesn't really give you much chance to influence what's going on. It might be better with the really large capital ships but once the main game starts is everyone going to be wandering around with fleets of SD's as their standard unit?

Edited June 3, 2008 by Idle_Scholar

[Stevefin_warlords]

thanks mark for stopping my ships

 

EDIT: yeah put a max time your ships can be in jumps. if u want a cannon answer just say its to prevent the engines from over heating, to prevent the hull from braking, light speed sickness, etc

Edited June 3, 2008 by Stevefin_warlords

[markb50k]

You could also put a maximum (time) limit so people can't mistakenly make ridiculously long jumps.

 

Also I really think there's something 'off' with the speed of combat. It's generally over in two turns, sometimes three, and that doesn't really give you much chance to influence what's going on. It might be better with the really large capital ships but once the main game starts is everyone going to be wandering around with fleets of SD's as their standard unit?

 

i could really ratchet down the speed of combat with a single edit in my config.  ill bring it down a little more and see if stuff is dying too slow (doubtful).