Fighters, how they dogfight

[Teradyn_pff]

Well realisticly would you build 25 or 5 right away? Well i'm guessing that you build a small base then grow with 5 fighters at a time while expanding right ?

 

Well if you build from SD ,if thats possible, then you would store 5 at a time if it holds about 40 since you dont want to squash them in there and make them less effective.

 

With what they are doing with persistent units, I don't think you will be building them from Star Destroyers like the Protoss Carriers in Starcraft. But the squadron size will most likely be set to a certain size and the capacity of a ship will be listed in squadrons, not fighters. We may see groups like in the videos. But like I said, that could all change with play balance.

[Ghostly_Substance]

Yup and I used that as an example. Well my bad I was thinking in a Rome Total War way so sorry and I think my point was invalid.

 

Let me restate that, well what would be easier to get in and out of battle ? Group of 5 or 25 fighters ? I Say 5 since you'll change the tide of battle if you bull out the wrong 25 instead of 5.

[Teradyn_pff]

Yup and I used that as an example. Well my bad I was thinking in a Rome Total War way so sorry and I think my point was invalid.

 

Let me restate that, well what would be easier to get in and out of battle ? Group of 5 or 25 fighters ? I Say 5 since you'll change the tide of battle if you bull out the wrong 25 instead of 5.

 

Well, with a regular RTS, the battle is over and you start a new map with a base and a peon/builder unit. In this game the battle is over and you may not have any time before you are being attacked by a force that was big enough to wipe out the fleet you won the space battle with. In this light, I think people are going to have to bring reinforcements right on the heels of a fight or go in with excessive numbers to be sure you have garrison units after the initial fight. So in that case, 25 may be better than 5.

 

Think of it this way. If the enemy builds up 5 ships before he attacks you, but you send a ship at him each time you build one, his second ship will come out before your and his first ship are done fighting because you had to take the time to get there. And with each successive fight it gets worse. So after you both build 5 ships, he may have 2 or 3 left and you have none.

 

The concept of grab and hold takes a whole new meaning with this kind of game. You can almost think of it as each planet being a resource spot on a game of Starcraft. Once you grab that spot, you have to defend it to keep mining it. If you attack a held spot but don't send enough units to protect it while you build your base up, it will be easier for the enemy to take it back.

 

Another point is that if the battles are going to be big enough, 5 fighters will not be what you are dealing with anyway. You will probably have a few groups of 5 fighters linked to a hotkey anyway, so this is something that the internal testers should be figuring out at this phase of production.

[Ghostly_Substance]

Ok whos stupid enough to send one unit against many? I tried once to scout but saw what happened. Well I assumed that you'll you have all your fighters in the area and you send all of them in and take only the worst 5 out and get them healed. If it was 25 you'd give the advantage to the enemy and your down the tube unless you have a hero around.

[Dorkthehunter]

Ok whos stupid enough to send one unit against many? I tried once to scout but saw what happened. Well I assumed that you'll you have all your fighters in the area and you send all of them in and take only the worst 5 out and get them healed. If it was 25 you'd give the advantage to the enemy and your down the tube unless you have a hero around.

 

Get them healed? You can only heal people in a bacta tank on the ground. I think....(Trying to think)...(Cries in pain)...(Stops trying).

 

Fighters should be in squadrons. Almost everything in Star Wars is in squadrons! Rouge Squadron, Red, Gold, Green Grey, 181st, Twin Suns, etc. The shield trios or quadruplets are only formations inside a squadron!

 

 

Someone asked about the cost of fighters...I think. (Process starts again)

Anywho...I think A-Wings costed 800 and a Mon Cal Cruiser cost 9000, to show scaling. Either it is about 11 squadrons of fighters or 11 groups of 5 or some other number to almost equal one Mon Cal. Imperial Star Destroyers should cost even more than that, even though the Tie Fighters will cost less.

[Nevets]

I wouldn't go by costs we have seen in convention screen shots, this is sure to be part of balancing, and will more than likely change.

[Teradyn_pff]

I wouldn't go by costs we have seen in convention screen shots, this is sure to be part of balancing, and will more than likely change.

Not to mention that the screens and videos were of pre-beta builds so are probably completely invalid altogether.

[Dorkthehunter]

Good point.

But still, it makes a world of a difference wether or not the fighters are in squadrons or other numbers. It is a difference of 7 fighters! And it isn't true to the SW Universe to have groups of five. When is a group of 5 ever mentioned?

[Ghostly_Substance]

What I mean by healing is fight another day........I thought you knew that since a dev mentioned that if you win/lose in a section of some planets space and go back in the same space position that you will automatically be healed. Might of been one of those bad rumors but its what I heard from a dev diary or something.

[Makwu]

There are differences between "cannon issues" ie. a-wings but no SSDs, and "game" issues. ie. number of fighters in a squad. They are not ussing 5 instead of the ussual 12/24 because there is confusion about how many units are in a SW squad, but rather because having that many ships on the screen is too much. However, it would make sense to use multiple, such as 4 or 6 to represent 12 rather than an odd "5". I did notice in the ISD vs MonCal that the tie squad is 7 ships and the bomber squad is 4. I hope they didn't go with an odd number becaues it makes vangaurd formations look even

[Zer_Teron]

I just thought of something, if the Rebellion has to steal the X-Wing technology from the Empire does that mean that the Empire can make X-Wings if they stop the Rebels attempt?

[Nevets]

I just thought of something, if the Rebellion has to steal the X-Wing technology from the Empire does that mean that the Empire can make X-Wings if they stop the Rebels attempt?

 

Good question, I have pondered that before, just haven't asked it. It seems logical and not at the same time, will be interesting to see how they deal with it.

[The Relentless]

I just thought of something, if the Rebellion has to steal the X-Wing technology from the Empire does that mean that the Empire can make X-Wings if they stop the Rebels attempt?

 

Good question, I have pondered that before, just haven't asked it. It seems logical and not at the same time, will be interesting to see how they deal with it.

 

I don't think they'll get an X-Wing, just something somewhat similar from the EU. I mean come on, the X-Wing is a Rebel symbol, the Imperials can't have it! Maybe they should get the TIE Hunter or something like that.

[Zer_Teron]

But the X-Wing was designed for the Empire, and it has been confirmed that the Rebels have to steal it from the Empire so it does seem logical that the Empire can have it

[Garbageben]

But the X-Wing was designed for the Empire, and it has been confirmed that the Rebels have to steal it from the Empire so it does seem logical that the Empire can have it

That would suck so bad if the Empire also got the X-Wing. I don't think it will be an Empire starfighter though (more like hope). It doesn't make sense to give the x-wing to the Empire when they already have TIEs. Not to mention that it goes against the Imperial ideals in a starfighter as it is expensive, has shields, and has a hyperdrive.

[JanGaarni]

But the X-Wing was designed for the Empire, and it has been confirmed that the Rebels have to steal it from the Empire so it does seem logical that the Empire can have it

That would suck so bad if the Empire also got the X-Wing.

Not also.

Instead.

 

I don't think it will be an Empire starfighter though (more like hope). It doesn't make sense to give the x-wing to the Empire when they already have TIEs. Not to mention that it goes against the Imperial ideals in a starfighter as it is expensive, has shields, and has a hyperdrive.

I doubt very much the Empire is going to use the model much if they prevent the rebels from stealing the design and prototypes. It will probably be scrapped and the design team be killed for treason against the Emperor.

[Zer_Teron]

You forget, it was designed with Imperialist Ideals in mind. No only the traitorous elements of Incom would be destroyed and the X-Wing would probably be used alla masse. Remeber, the Empire had enough money to build 25,000 Imperial Star Destroyers, which were very expensive EXTREMELY expensive.

[Foshjedi2004]

Don't forget the millions of other support craft built as well.

[The Relentless]

It's not about the money, it's about the weirdness. The Imperials can't have the X-Wing, period. If the Rebels fail to steal it, then the Empire should get something that would be much like the X-Wing, cheaper and produced in bigger numbers and ahead of the "normal" SW timeline. As I said, the TIE Hunter would be perfect for this. You have to remember that the X-Wing would have been different under the Empire's control, the Rebels must have made some changes to it.

[JanGaarni]

The Empire had various designs up their sleeves, but not all of them were picked. Look at the TIE Advanced x1. What became of it? It got put aside, and the TIE Interceptor was born instead based on the Advanced x1 research. Further development was put into the x1, but it was slow. Eventuelly it resulted in the TIE Avenger, but still the Empire didn't want a shielded, hyperspace capable ship. They wanted big ships, and refused to realize that they really needed TIE's to be shielded.

 

When they finally gave in to their own ideals, it was too late.

 

So, based on this mindsett, I have no doubt that if you as the Empire prevent the rebels from aquiring the X-Wing design, it will most likely be scrapped, or morfed into something else.

[Zer_Teron]

WHY WOULD THE EMPIRE NOT USE A FIGHTER THEY HAD SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED FOR THEM THINK BEFORE YOU POST

[Swiftdraw]

Then how do you explain all the other proto-types (like the TIE Advance and the cloaking TIE) that never went into full scale production? Those were made for specificly the Empire, but never made it into full scale use. The X-wing may have made it into the demonstration stage of development, but would have never gotten into full production. Imperial dogma had capital ships first and fighters as second.

 

Think before you flame.

[Zer_Teron]

It was actually almost complete not in the demonstration phase, then defectors stole the plans and brought them to the Alliance

[Eduardo]

Got a question, we have seen some trailers and the fighters dogfight very awesome, it looks like there are real, ok the question is:

 

Example:Tie fighters vs X wings, alright we know that the X wings are more powerfull than than ties, but, the fighters win ramdomnly(like if they are real)because in the trailers, they seem like flying and attacking and evading, or it will be as any other game, the strongest fighter wins???

how would this be??

[JanGaarni]

I never post without thinking first.

 

And I never post posts like that without reading the history (or brush up on it).

 

Perhaps you should do the same?

 

Consequently, I can't find any references to suggest the X-Wing was going to be solely for the Empire in the first place.