Star destroyer landing on planets...

[Swiftdraw]

You are putting a great burden on yourself Juggy. But if you pull all this off you'll have my un-dying respect... For whatever thats worth...

[Juggernaut1985]

Not in it for burden, I'm thinking it'll be fun to see how far we can push the envelope.

[Foshjedi2004]

Yeah Would be fun to see a SSD and A Mon Cal Cruiser Landing on the surface. Would be a massive Backdrop for missions.

[Swiftdraw]

Not in it for burden, I'm thinking it'll be fun to see how far we can push the envelope.

 

May not be what your in it for, but I'm guessing what you'll get anyhow. Good luck none-the-less.

[Foshjedi2004]

Thankyou very Much Swiftdraw. Nice Avatar.

[Teradyn_pff]

Thankyou very Much Swiftdraw. Nice Avatar.

 

There may not be a way technically for the drop ships to be combat enabled. I don't know whether they would be put in as the ships in space completely modelled. At any rate, this and the bombardment issue are ones that will be extremely interesting to test and pull apart once we get the demo. I really want a bombardment option to be tied to the power of the fleet in orbit. If it has to be a countdown timer like in Generals, maybe a sufficiently large fleet would have several countdown timers allowing for a good barrage.

[Foshjedi2004]

So a time based orbital bombardment window. That could work. If you don't bomb the generator in time the planet is defended or something.

[Teradyn_pff]

So a time based orbital bombardment window. That could work. If you don't bomb the generator in time the planet is defended or something.

 

But the generator is outside the shields so any bombardment could work immediately.

 

That report given to Vader in ESB before the battle of Hoth doesn't seem like a realistic one since they could have bombarded the shield generator with ease... since it is outside the shield of course.

[Foshjedi2004]

I am sick of this "Canon" Idea that the generator is outside the shield. It is inside the shield. If it wasn't why didn't the Empire just Orbital Bombard the Massive Energy signatures that they produced??

[Teradyn_pff]

Delphi, since you are out and about right now, could you tell us whether or not our arguments on the dynamics of the shield generator and/or projector are useless? We need to know if the outside the shield location is a permanent thing with no hope of modification, or if there is a possibility of change, since the game is in the polish/balance phase? In some ways, this debate, as well as the ISD dome being shield or sensor debate have occupied more space/time in this forum than the SSD issue. The difference being that the dome and ground sheild issues are something that most of us agree on in the forums at least.

[AT-AP]

No SW film has ever shown a generator being OUTSIDE the shields, only on the inside. That's why the armies/commando teams had to get planetside in the first place.

 

The closest I could come to this "logic" is in some poorly written books. Not the films.

[Teradyn_pff]

No SW film has ever shown a generator being OUTSIDE the shields, only on the inside. That's why the armies/commando teams had to get planetside in the first place.

 

The closest I could come to this "logic" is in some poorly written books. Not the films.

 

Well, the shield effect itself wasn't really seen in the original trilogy. Although, I would like to point out that the Droideka, the gungan shields, etc had their shields protecting their sheild projectors. The point of the walkers was to walk inside the shield and destroy the generator from inside, much like in Episode I where the droids had to pass through the shields to attack the units within.

[AT-AP]

Yep, and according to more recent sources, only wheeled/tracked/legged units can do this, due to shield-effects messing with repulsor-generators (which handily explains why the Empire didn't use bombers with their walker-assault on Hoth). =)

[Teradyn_pff]

Yep, and according to more recent sources, only wheeled/tracked/legged units can do this, due to shield-effects messing with repulsor-generators (which handily explains why the Empire didn't use bombers with their walker-assault on Hoth). =)

 

That makes sense. It may also be due to the relatively low ceiling of the shield as well. I know that the walkers were adapted to the cold, but would the tie fighters have the same problems as the speeders? Tie fighters are capable of atmospheric flight and spaceflight, and the X-Wings didn't seem to have a mention of special fixes to get them working. I think that interference with flight would have to be the best explanation of why they didn't use them in light of all this.

 

This brings up a good question though, what happens if a tie bomber flys into a shield? And what keeps the bomber from flying into a shield to bomb things within? These are a couple of questions that would force the issue of what you brought up. Because the way that they took out the shield generator in the demo begs the question of why the Empire didn't do that at Hoth.

[JanGaarni]

I think, since the "snow" speeders where ment to be used in atmospheric enviroment, they weren't built to withstand colds that could be experienced in space for instance.

 

That is why X-Wings and other space ships arn't as effected by Hoths relatively mild climate compared to space.

 

And shield generators are protected by the shield themselfs aswell. There's no questioning this. The only sources stating otherwise are games, for 1 obvious reason: So that a single person is able to take out the biggest ships in a given game.

 

But personally, I feel in an RTS there is no need for this philosophy, as we all know, that you can use shields that you are able to walk thru, but not fire thru them.

I think this would be far more realistic and more fun to try and get those shields down.

[Teradyn_pff]

I think, since the "snow" speeders where ment to be used in atmospheric enviroment, they weren't built to withstand colds that could be experienced in space for instance.

 

That is why X-Wings and other space ships arn't as effected by Hoths relatively mild climate compared to space.

 

Exactly, but that is my point. If the shield generator was outside, why couldn't the empire bombard it with tie bombers even? I am inclined to agree with the earlier poster saying that the shields would cause problems with their repulsors..... buuuut that brings up the issue again. They wouldn't have to worry about it because it was outside the shield protection. I wish petroglyph would respond to these arguments and explain where in the "canon" they came up with this. "Canon" points to it being inside, not outside.

[AT-AP]

Since space is even more devoid of heat than snow planets, I'd imagine flying would not be a problem for spacefighters.

 

On the matter of flying into a shield, it would depend how fast you went. At the speeds SW fighters have, they would probably be treated like projectiles and be destroyed on impact. If going at a slow, hovering pace you might have a chance, but then there's the problems that arise afterwards from not being "grounded" .

 

I always imagined "wheel-sets" being made for this kind of situation. You'd attach them to a fighter or a speeder, go slowly through the shield, then send them back out and do the same thing with another unit. Or carry them inside AT-ATs and Juggernauts.

[Teradyn_pff]

Since space is even more devoid of heat than snow planets, I'd imagine flying would not be a problem for spacefighters.

 

On the matter of flying into a shield, it would depend how fast you went. At the speeds SW fighters have, they would probably be treated like projectiles and be destroyed on impact. If going at a slow, hovering pace you might have a chance, but then there's the problems that arise from not being "grounded" afterwords.

 

I always imagined "wheel-sets" being made for this kind of situation. You'd attach them to a fighter or a speeder, go slowly through the shield, then send them back out and do the same thing with another unit. Or carry them inside AT-ATs and Juggernauts.

 

Well, maybe the shields would disable their repulsors and they would just crash. Not sure about that part.

 

If you had enough time to get a bomber to the ground, move it inside the shield and relaunch it, wouldn't you already be in a position to strike? Beside, bombers may not have the clearance necessary between them and the ground to drop ordinace and keep from hitting the ceiling at the same time. Gameplaywise, I don't see the bombers passing the shields at all. I see them glancing off or avoiding them altogether.

[AT-AP]

Well, maybe the shields would disable their repulsors and they would just crash. Not sure about that part.

I think that's the general idea, yeah.

 

If you had enough time to get a bomber to the ground, move it inside the shield and relaunch it, wouldn't you already be in a position to strike?

Yes, did I come across as saying something else? I not, then that is what I meant. =)

 

Beside, bombers may not have the clearance necessary between them and the ground to drop ordinace and keep from hitting the ceiling at the same time.

Judging by their actions in ESB and various comics, they can bomb from relatively low altitudes. And the shield on Hoth appeared to go at least a couple of kilometers above ground, judging by the flightpath of the snowspeeders. If the Rebels could have airsupport like that, then the Empire only needed to get something similar inside the shields to do the same. They might simply have chosen the "ground only" option due to time constraints. The AT-AT line-of-sight was pretty far.

[Dorkthehunter]

Going back to the topic of shield generators and placement. The shield generator on Hoth was for the planetary shield, it was inside it! There was no shield on the ground protecting Hoth. Same on Endor. There was a shield around the DS2 and the shield generator was on the ground.

[AT-AP]

Yes, but the Rebel team had to pass "traffic control" to get through it in their shuttle, and the novelization describes the generator powering a shield for both the DS II and the forest moon it's situated on.

[JanGaarni]

Going back to the topic of shield generators and placement. The shield generator on Hoth was for the planetary shield, it was inside it! There was no shield on the ground protecting Hoth. Same on Endor. There was a shield around the DS2 and the shield generator was on the ground.

But the reason why the DS II was surrounded by a shield projected from the moon surface, was because the DSII's own shields wasn't operational yet. The number 1 priority on the DS was to get the weaponssystems, and most of, the Superlaser, online.

 

EDIT: Hmm, I'm gonna leave this here, but I don't think I read your post correctly (I really should stop posting stuff when tired. )

[Teradyn_pff]

Going back to the topic of shield generators and placement. The shield generator on Hoth was for the planetary shield, it was inside it! There was no shield on the ground protecting Hoth. Same on Endor. There was a shield around the DS2 and the shield generator was on the ground.

 

The shields on the first Death Star were not able to block the rebel fighters from penetrating them with their ships. Remember the scene at the end of ANH where they mention "passing through the (magnetic?) shield". The properties of this shield and the one around the second Death Star seem to be different because the falcon and its accompanying escorts could not fly into the superstructure before it went down. The shuttle Tyderium? could not land on the moon either without the Executor having the shields lowered for them.

 

As for Hoth, if there was a complete planetary shield that could protect the entire planet like the shield that prevented Tyderium? from even landing, how would the probe droid get on the planet, let alone get close enough to the generator to scan it? It must have been an electromagnetic shield that would not prevent ships passing through it. This brings the issue of why didn't the Empire use bombers and tie fighters up again though. They did in rebel strike but games fall after movies canon-wise always.

[Garbageben]

I think they raised the shield on Hoth after they realized that the Imperials had found their base.

[Zer_Teron]

Actually the Hoth shield didnt cover the entire planet, just the Rebel base. Also it wasn't up all the time cause the energy emmisions would be detectable.