Star destroyer landing on planets...

[Eduardo]

I know that petrogliph said that star destroyers won't land on planets, but in the list of units, the Victory class SD(or at least it is said there), can enter planets atmosphere and can directly support ground attacks...

I hope that at least the Victory class can enter a planet and attack groun from above, soooo, what do you think?

[General Ackbar]

i doubt they will be able to

[Hadoken13]

I know that petrogliph said that star destroyers won't land on planets, but in the list of units, the Victory class SD(or at least it is said there), can enter planets atmosphere and can directly support ground attacks...

I hope that at least the Victory class can enter a planet and attack groun from above, soooo, what do you think?

i would think the victory would be the best at droping off huge armies since it is stronger than dropships.also it could have a special ability that let it fire it's turbolasers and missles at the enemy base.

[Nevets]

Would like to see the Ven and Acc being able to land, since both are able to.

[Teradyn_pff]

I think if, for no other reason, this would not be implemented due to balance. In addition, we have no idea as of yet what orbital bombardment by capital ships means. Is it a minimal attack ala ion cannon of Command & Conquer, or a more realistic full on assault akin to the type of exchange occuring between the ships in space. If modelled properly, the ground portion would be a contest to see whether the attacking force can:

 

1. Land without being destroyed in transit. (Doesn't look too complete according to the videos.)

 

2. De-activate any planetary space batteries (ion, turbolaser, etc.).

 

3. De-activate planetary shields that would prevent a bombardment from doing any damage.

 

From the videos, it would appear a more gamey approach will be used where the ground battle will be more like a traditional RTS where the enemy has to be eliminated completely with ground troops and a few "special" attacks in the form of rare orbital bombardments, bomber runs, etc.

 

Back to the subject of gameplay and balance. If the above numbered scenarios were to describe the role in the game of ground attack, it would then be followed by a removal of ground forces and a general blistering bombardment from above until no enemy life remained (especially from the Imperial tactics). Basically all combat would revolve around protecting the batteries and shields or destroying them, depending on your side. It would basically be the dreaded escort/protect mission we all hate in RTS games for the defender every single time a land battle began.

 

Although I am more hardcore on putting realism in every aspect possible, I understand I need to take what I can get since the game has to sell more than the 1 copy I will buy. I am eagerly anticipating this game as it is (IMO) the modern day version of Rebellion many of us have been praying for.

 

My $0.02

[Makwu]

Couldn't agree with you more. Excerpt from my orginal post here

 

I can’t stress how important it is that the shield itself be the focal point of the battles. Once the shield is gone in star wars the battle is pretty much lost. But placing the shield generator outside the shields itself will only make for very bad gameplay while simultaneously not adhering to the star wars universe. Can you really make an argument as to why the powercore outside the shields makes any sense at all? Who would ever build defenses like that? I know that the game has not had much unit balancing and testing, but I can guarantee this is an issue that will have to get fixed before release in order for the ground battles to make any sense at all. If all one must do is land, bombard the shield generator, then bombard the troops…ground battles will have no depth or purpose. Why even have ground units? I’d land one scout speeder, take him so he can see the generator but well outside the reach of the units protected by the shield, then I’d bomb the generator. Then I’d bomb the units themselves. In order to protect against this, you’d have to start contriving rules against it. Such as only allowing the player attacking to use his bombers 3 times. Why contrive rules that are highly unrealistic to balance another unrealistic gameplay flaw? If the powercore is within the shields, then everything makes sense. Then the ground troops are needed and the game is true to star wars.

[Teradyn_pff]

Very good point. By the way. Anyone know the beta schedule on this game? Will it have an internal only beta, did it start already and I missed it, will there be different modes of beta? This is a game that I would really love to help development on because I have such a high expectation out of the final product.

[Eduardo]

Well, it would be really nice to see a star destroyer descending on a planet.

[Mistrider]

If being realistic, orbital bombardment should be VERY ricky if you have troops on the ground. for the gunners on the ships an aiming change of a 10th of a degree can equate to up to a half mile difference in where their shots strike. There shouldn't be an aiming thing, just a button that you push and pray to god that your gunners up there don't hit the wrong spot on the planet.

[Makwu]

Well we are talking about sophisticated targeting systems. Current US targeting technology allows the US to drop metal rods from space, calculating for atmospheric conditions and the earths rotation and have them land within a 5 meter area. I doubt hitting a target from a spaceship with a laser (which goes from the ship to the surface in a fraction of a second and is unaffected my most atmospheric conditions) would be much of a problem.

[Hadoken13]

Well we are talking about sophisticated targeting systems. Current US targeting technology allows the US to drop metal rods from space, calculating for atmospheric conditions and the earths rotation and have them land within a 5 meter area. I doubt hitting a target from a spaceship with a laser (which goes from the ship to the surface in a fraction of a second and is unaffected my most atmospheric conditions) would be much of a problem.

well yes but first i think mistrider's idea is a good way to balance out orbital bombard ment and second you always have to account for human/alien error.

[Teradyn_pff]

Come on now, it will be incredibly cheesy for the balance to be handled in that way when you can clearly see the accurate targetting performed in space.

[Makwu]

the proper use of shields/powercore would solve this problem. Loyalty penelties for hitting buildings and such.

[Jmaster3265]

Yeah i doubt that asl well..

[Mistrider]

The targetting systems aren't all that sophisticated. Admiral Ackbar designed a capital ship charge directed between two enemy ships SPECIFICALLY so that they would hit each other with their missed shots. I believe it was called the Ackbar Slash or some such thing.

 

Also, I believe in one of the NJO books(though it has been over a year since I read it) The New Republic forces had to place beacons for the Lusankya gunners to use as aiming points so they would avoid friendly fire.

[Foshjedi2004]

The bit about beacons is false. But the Ackbar Slash description is 100% correct. Ackbar came up with it during the battle for Endor with his cruisers coming very close to the enemy.

[Makwu]

Well let me clarify a bit. Aiming a laser at the ground from space isn't very technologically impressive, even by today’s standards. Being able to hit a target would be pretty easy. Now, this is star wars not real life. In star wars, I don’t recall any examples of a spaceship targeting a ground unit or structure. But I have only read about half of the EU. Though I do recall an example of when Thrawn was able to get a planet to lower its shields and forfeit to save time. There was (If I recall) some unwritten implication that the fleet could do very heavy damage to the planet. But how precise that damage would be was unclear.

 

Another point, which I have no seen much about in star wars is counter-measures. As targeting systems improved, so would jamming systems. Although the technology for aiming a laser at a large capital ship is rudimentary, the technology to deceive such a targeting system could be devised. Though missing a cruiser passing by you even at a high speed seems highly unfeasible under any circumstance. But hey, this is science fiction. If consensus says that in star wars, they can’t target ground troops, then I’m all for it being like that in a star wars game.

[Foshjedi2004]

the Lusaynka was only seen in 2 books in the NJO.

 

In one of them it was ploughed into a Worldship and in the other it performed Orbital Bombardment on the Yuzhaan Vong ground forces.

[Gen.Vader]

you guys here is an easy answer to deal with the cheapness of super accurate bombardments

ImpGunner: Man...im soo tired...

Rebel disguised as Imp: here have this!*gives gunner correllian ale*

ImpGunner: mmm...that hits the spot.

RebelImp:here have some more!

ImpGunner: gluggluglgug

5 HOURS LATER!

Imp Gunner: *hic*whhuell tu*hic* to opfesate thu guans!

RebelImp: hehehe*goes in escape pod*

that could be a plausible way to hassle the sophisticated systems eh?

[Makwu]

it performed Orbital Bombardment on the Yuzhaan Vong ground forces.

 

With what success?

[Mistrider]

with great success, but it was being used as a defensive measure. The YV were assaulting a Galactic Alliance base with these HUGE mountain sized creatures. So the GA ships in orbit opened fire on the attackers.

[Makwu]

Mountain sized... that leaves a lot for debate. But if you can bombard a creature the size of a mountain, then you can bombard a creature the size of an ant. It merely becomes a matter of technology. How accurate are the targeting systems on star wars ships? They can jump through hyperspace, are over a mile long, can send messages via hyperspace, and in the case of the death star, destroy an entire planet. But they dont' have the sensor strength or accuracy to target a smaller ground unit? Or at least a building?

[Mistrider]

Well, you've also got the problem of the fact that energy disperses, so by the time a laser blast hit ground it can be over 100m in diameter.

 

 

The Deathstar was the "least" in the terror department. You have the world destroyers(or some such thing) which converted any element and spat out attack craft in a fully automated matter.

 

Then there was the Suncrusher which had indestructible armor(Han Solo flew it THROUGH the bridge of an Imperial Star Destroyer and out the back of the command tower without a scratch on the craft. Not to mention that it was armed with a torpedo that when fired into a star caused the star to go nova(Kyp Durron Destroyed the Carrida system, the main stormtrooper training ground, in this fashion)

[Makwu]

Here is a short little article on the dispersion of energy weapons Here

 

The US military has concluded that energy dispersion within the atmosphere is negligible. They have been using energy weapons to shoot down tactical missiles and artillery shells (Each traveling well over 5000mph). There is little contestation that the system can be upgraded to take out nuclear warheads. I don't know the exact math, but I do know that nuclear weapons must be taken out while still in space and while moving at around 15000mph. Hitting a nuclear missile traveling through space at 15000mph with an energy weapon is far less difficult than hitting a ground target from geosynchronous orbit.

 

More info

More info 2

[Foshjedi2004]

There isn;t a massive amount of energy dispersal as Thrawn was able to get the Chimaera to do very accurate bombardment of Honoghr to prove a point in DFR.