Rebellion 2?

[Master_Xan]

You might take some tips from Space Empires. That game is a little more complex than what you're going to want (for instance, you can design your own units from a list of components based on your research), but there are some handy things they do. Some of the firing controls in combat would go over well, though others wouldn't. They also allow movement of cargo in cargo ships, no matter what kind it is. A cargo vessel can carry fighters, ground troops, population, anything; of course, only a carrier can actually deploy fighters in a battle, etc. Makes sense, and it makes it easier to transfer fighters around.

 

They also list fighters by type and amount, not in a long list as in the original Rebellion. Many of the other mechanics won't transfer over well, but I think there are some things you can pick out.

[Evaders99]

In terms of an interface, I believe Sins of a Solar Empire has it down. The galaxy interface works well and puts the tactical combat + galactic view in one zoom-able interface. The only thing it doesn't have is characters, units, missions, diplomacy...

 

Would love to have research and the various submenus as part of the main interface rather than separate windows. Take a look at Sins, see if you can adapt some of their good points.

[Moribundus]

I agree with you, Evaders. The plan was to make it (eventually) entirely 3D but until then... Honestly, yeah, I am already reconsidering some of the approaches the original game took. Too many displays, too many windows, too tedious of a drag and drop system, etc. It's what is really holding me back, to be honest. And I really do think more variables (to expand gameplay) would add depth to the game.

 

Thing is I just need to come up with a new system. I have Psychology coming up next, though, so I'll otherwise ignore the teacher and develop such a system I'll post it upon return.

 

Honestly, don't say I didn't warn you.

 

There's a proverb about giving advice to people who are not willing to listen. Happy coding.

[DavidAdas]

Anywho, so I've come up with an answer to the problem you posted originally, Evaders. Let me know your thoughts.

 

In Rebellion 2, I can code a "Territory" class. It will connect and paint the areas each faction owns and I can build consequences for traveling too deep. Secondly, I can also implement way point traveling. This is something I had in mind a while ago. Instead of just selecting the planet you wish to jump to, you'll be able to select the exact route you wish your fleet to take. So you may go Coruscant to Yaga Minor to Kessel... and so on. If you do not choose a direct route, the computer will automatically generated the fastest route for you.

 

This will establish territory and enhance territorial strategy... and makes the universe a bit less assessable than it really should be. The last thing we need to do though is define the consequences for traveling deep into one side's territory. My ideal approach is this:

 

• 1. Fleet icons will move simarly to those in Empire at War. You can move multiple lines (fleets) against multiple parts of a faction's territory.
  
• 2. Depending on the size of the fleet and how far deep you intend to go, you may be detected and will become interceptable.
  
• 3. Because Rebel fleets are made up of lightweight and thus faster ships, it will be harder (depending on the size) for them to be detected.
  
• 4. Depending on planet loyalty, certain enemy planets may not alert others of your presence.
  
• 5. MOST IMPORTANTLY: Constant travel and combat will significantly degrade ship performance, requiring immediate repairs at a friendly dock.

 

Tell me what you guys think or give what suggestions you have. Would give me some cool things to work on!

[Evaders99]

Very cool ideas. I like the idea of maintenance, as long as it isn't too much micromanagement. I guess it will take some testing to determine how it will affect the gameplay.

[Slocket]

Remember espiniague missions are important to 'detect' those fleets in motion. I would leave that part of 'detection' in the game, instead of a flat out radar.

 

I do like the concept of waypoint, more limited travel. But I think a sabataque mission should be able to be done behind enemy lines just like the original and in real life.

[Evaders99]

Perhaps use the system that Empire at War uses, where Rebels can sneak through a strike force behind enemy lines. They can't send a large force, but then.. you shouldn't need to in order to disrupt critical systems.

[Moribundus]

Try writing a simple prototype of you game mechanics. It will be worth more than a thousand words and you will see, if it actually works and is fun.

 

For inspiration, here are EA's Spore prototypes - http://www.spore.com/comm/prototypes. Nothing fancy, just coloured squares and triangles

[DarthTex]

Anywho, so I've come up with an answer to the problem you posted originally, Evaders. Let me know your thoughts.

 

In Rebellion 2, I can code a "Territory" class. It will connect and paint the areas each faction owns and I can build consequences for traveling too deep. Secondly, I can also implement way point traveling. This is something I had in mind a while ago. Instead of just selecting the planet you wish to jump to, you'll be able to select the exact route you wish your fleet to take. So you may go Coruscant to Yaga Minor to Kessel... and so on. If you do not choose a direct route, the computer will automatically generated the fastest route for you.

 

This will establish territory and enhance territorial strategy... and makes the universe a bit less assessable than it really should be. The last thing we need to do though is define the consequences for traveling deep into one side's territory. My ideal approach is this:

 

• 1. Fleet icons will move simarly to those in Empire at War. You can move multiple lines (fleets) against multiple parts of a faction's territory.
  
• 2. Depending on the size of the fleet and how far deep you intend to go, you may be detected and will become interceptable.
  
• 3. Because Rebel fleets are made up of lightweight and thus faster ships, it will be harder (depending on the size) for them to be detected.
  
• 4. Depending on planet loyalty, certain enemy planets may not alert others of your presence.
  
• 5. MOST IMPORTANTLY: Constant travel and combat will significantly degrade ship performance, requiring immediate repairs at a friendly dock.

 

Tell me what you guys think or give what suggestions you have. Would give me some cool things to work on!

Those are good ideas. Have you though about adding a specialty class ship (a survey ship) that could "map" sectors for you and provide hyperspace lanes? Should you be able to "slip" past enemy lines and patrols, you could "map out" enemy territory. Also, having a specific espionage mission against shipyards or capital ships, should they prove successful would give you some hyperspace travel info inside enemy territory? Maybe a specialty class ship (a "spy" ship) that would work similar to a successful droid espionage mission, but it would give you system data on all systems within a certain distance of the target system, keeping info constantly updated (instead of multi missions like now) until you moved the ship or get detected (which would dump you into "tactical mode" should enemy ships be in orbit or have fighters, or make the system "under blockade" - as long as you use my last ideas on blockades). Just some thoughts to make things more strategic and fun.

[steel]

What about the battles?

 

Are everyone happy with how it is now where you command a battle?

 

Or would people prefer a more seamless occurance where a battle takes place on the main map and you can give orders to your units, and then go back to your campaign while they fight it out. Would give the option to bring in reinforments from the campaign map unlike the current system....

 

Just a thought.

[Evaders99]

Seamless... battles should be a part of the one game universe, not as a side event that you can auto-battle. Again, see Sins of a Solar Empire

[Moribundus]

Hmm, yes, seamless battles in Sins are cool, but the game is basically a RTS grind.

[Slocket]

I like the original turn based (stop for battles) of the original "Rebellion" (also similiar to "Total War" series). In a big strategy game I do not want to get hurried by the RTS nature of Sins. Too much annoying micromanagement on a large scale universe. Then again, I am old school, and just plain older. I like to take my time in a game.

[steel]

Would be pretty simple to implement both actually.

 

You can stop the world update routine on everything else and just run the simulation

[ToBad]

Try out this game http://www.spaceraze.com and see if you get any good ides Test to play a game in the game world Expended (a star wars world). We have plans to do a greater Star Wars world with research, troops, ships, VIP (jedi), planet buildings on planet and in orbit. A new version on the game is going out today (I hope).

 

Do you have any url to the game site?

[DarthTex]

I like the original turn based (stop for battles) of the original "Rebellion" (also similiar to "Total War" series). In a big strategy game I do not want to get hurried by the RTS nature of Sins. Too much annoying micromanagement on a large scale universe. Then again, I am old school, and just plain older. I like to take my time in a game.

I've never played Sins so I don't have a comparative reference, but with the "way" the Rebellion galaxy is setup (days of travel between systems; "day" being the smallest unit of time), it seems the original works best. Battles could take minutes or several hours to conclude (game time), so unless "reinforcements" were already traveling with the battle fleet it doesn't seem possible they would every arrive in time to make a difference. It seems to me, the galaxy would need to get "more populated" with systems and/or waypoints (space stations, etc), have a smaller time unit (a "hour"?) to make this happen, but the penalty would be more complex micro-management to be more SW "realistic"

[Evaders99]

I've never had to micromanage my ships in Sins. I let them duke-it-out using their default settings. Ships will automatically target, use special abilities, bombard facilities, etc. And the tree-view makes it super easy to manage across the galaxy. No "dozens of windows" to open, its all available in one screen.

 

Having realtime feedback is a great boost. If conditions change, I can easily move resources from one area to another.

I like how I can reinforce in the middle of a battle... I've had conditions where control is never firmly established, the several battles are on-going as you still have to deal with the economy, research, etc.

[DavidAdas]

Remember espiniague missions are important to 'detect' those fleets in motion. I would leave that part of 'detection' in the game, instead of a flat out radar.

 

Good point. Agreed!

 

Perhaps use the system that Empire at War uses, where Rebels can sneak through a strike force behind enemy lines. They can't send a large force, but then.. you shouldn't need to in order to disrupt critical systems.

That was kind of what I had in mind, really. Preserve the Rebellion's ability to hit and fade.

 

Try writing a simple prototype of you game mechanics. It will be worth more than a thousand words and you will see, if it actually works and is fun.

 

The link was interesting. As soon as I can get on to our next break and away from my insanely difficult teachers (who hired these guys??) I'll post a long script up.

 

 

On another note, my eventual goal is to make the entire game real time. Thus, ticks and turns will only be temporary. There's just a lot of testing needed to determine just how many fleet battles one will be able to control at once

 

The more ideas the better, guys! I'm sorry I haven't been able to work on it as much. Don't worry though, not a day goes by when I don't feel like crap for not attending my 'baby.' I just need damn midterms out of the way!

[ThrawnVSAckbar]

Newbie here.

I have followed and played rebellion for a couple of years and I finally joined.

Anyway, DavidAdas, i admire you for taking this one and i am very excited. I would help if i could, but i don't have any coding experience and heck, i can't even get models to work.

I do have a couple of ideas, though. I thought to add a little more complexity, you could make the galaxy rotate very, very slowely. In reality, the milky way completes a rotation every hundred thousand years or so, but you could speed it up to every 1000 days, and the mid and outer rims rotate a bit slower as it would in real life. This is just and idea, but if you did go with it, you could make it an option.

DavidAdas, you are awsome

[Slocket]

Believe it or not, in real life the galaxy rotates as a whole at the same angular speed. That means the center, mid and outer rim rotate as one. That was a huge surprise...

 

Thus the astromoners and physicst assume there must be alot more gravity to hold everything together, they call this unknown unseen mass "Dark Matter". This is no BS.

[ThrawnVSAckbar]

Really? okay. Well i figured out it rotates every 200 million years so a hundred thousand was way off.

 

I knew dark matter was responsible for holding galaxies together but i didn't think that they kept the stars in their relative places.

Well, you could still have the sectors shift a little bit because while most stars do rotate at the same speed, their positions do change relative

to one another, abiet very slowely and not by much.

 

Maybe you could add in a new facility that makes maintenence. maybe one point per turn per facility.

[DavidAdas]

Newbie here.

I have followed and played rebellion for a couple of years and I finally joined.

Anyway, DavidAdas, i admire you for taking this one and i am very excited. I would help if i could, but i don't have any coding experience and heck, i can't even get models to work.

I do have a couple of ideas, though. I thought to add a little more complexity, you could make the galaxy rotate very, very slowely. In reality, the milky way completes a rotation every hundred thousand years or so, but you could speed it up to every 1000 days, and the mid and outer rims rotate a bit slower as it would in real life. This is just and idea, but if you did go with it, you could make it an option.

DavidAdas, you are awsome

 

Haha, thank you ThrawnVSAckbar Ideas are always welcome, though -- so keep suggesting! As for a rotating galaxy? While I actually could do it, I'm worried that it might clog up an additional processing thread and slow the game up. Something that runs as a constant background task often has that effect. But I might be able to do it as an extra visual option...

 

Anyway, just to let everyone know, I've recently hit back that spurt I was going on about a month ago and am now back on track! During BioPsych., I had this crazy idea on how to handle missions in events in real time and before I knew it, I was coding again. Not much aesthetic stuff but important progress nevertheless.

 

The only holdup is the equations to determine success on any given mission. I don't believe we actually know what the original equations were and... well, to be honest, even if we did I doubt I'd use them anyway. So in short I need to develop new algorithms. If any of you would like to contribute to this in any way (such as suggesting possible variables or actually developing an equation yourself) I would love you forever.

[Slocket]

Have you looked at RebEd mission editor? There is a TB editor in there that shows and changes what the orginal Rebellion probability Tables are. They were based on (and this is in the manual) a score and look up tables. The score was based upon the agents and decoys trying to get through each was tested against the foilers/enemy forces detection.

 

Diplomacy mission was based only on up on diplomacy stat and planet loyality. Sabotague based upon combination of espinague and combat skill rating. etc. But those mission can be foiled by detection checks by enemy forces on the planet upon entering the system, and while on the ground. What the actual algorythms were and are is a guess.

[steel]

Anyone put any thought into which era to use for Rebellion2?

 

Sticking with Reb1 Era?

 

I was thinking maybe pre-ANH or post-ROTJ would be good as well as the original post-ANH would make good scenarios.

[Evaders99]

Allow the ability for multiple eras? Too complicated?

At least, allow some kind of setting on where to start... pre-Galactic Civil War and post. The appropriate infrastructure and settings should allow for different starting point for gameplay.