Rebellion 2?

[DavidAdas]

Without further adieu, I'd like to officially announce that development has begun on "Rebellion 2" (name subject to change). As of now, it is currently being programmed in Java, as I personally feel as though Java can best handle the addiction to frames the original seemed to have

 

This is what we have planned:

 

1. Ground Units - We would like to see all combat units, not just main characters, gain experience upon success. We would like for you to be able to name your units, too.

2. Starships - You will be able to add main characters to flight groups. For instance, you can attach Wedge to an X-Wing, and that X-Wing will gain a significant bonus. You will also be able to set which fighters will be in which flight groups now, too. And yes, we're also adding Gunboats.

3. Capital Ships - We want to add more (maybe 4-5 for each side). Also, you'll be able to set up their formation and which flight group they will belong to beforehand. Other suggestions?

4. Resource Management - Each planet will now display how much of a given resource it produces per turn and we will have a separate window to tell you where those resources are going. Sadly, no more limited minerals. There's a essay's worth in why, so if you want to know just PM me.

 

The code itself will be posted by mid-June on our SourceForge page for the game. I will announce it at that time but for now:

https://sourceforge.net/projects/swrebellion2/

Is the official link!

Edited June 2, 2008 by DavidAdas

[rammer3]

Very interesting ideas , for my part i would ask for more than just 4 different fighters per side ,at least 7 should be right including TIE Advanced (not the X1 but the Avenger), Assault gunboats ,Missile Boat, E-wing ,Z-95 Headhunter, T-wing ,R-41 Starchaser, etc, and the possiblities for changing the stats for each of the ships ,just like the RebEd program can do it.

Thats all for the moment.

I Am Interested

[Grand_Admiral_Thrawn]

You are certainly not the first person(s) to undertake the challenge of creating a new Rebellion game, and I very much doubt you will be the last. That said I do wish you the very best luck in your endeavour and I hope that you'll update us on any progress that is made. Also, beware of lawyers. With how large a cash cow the Star Wars franchise has become I'm afraid LucasArts is unlikely to take infringement upon their territory lightly.

[Evaders99]

We have a whole list of ideas and forum for them. That's why this thread has been moved

 

Best of luck on this project

[Moribundus]

Hmm, that's the fourth Rebellion 2 project so far

 

Wouldn't it be better to team up with someone, eg. Slocket if you don't want to change the game core (or me, if you're more ambitious )?

 

Well if you really want to work solo, I wish you the best of luck (and lots of patience and determination).

[DavidAdas]

I find your lack of faith... disturbing. No, but seriously. If there are any programmers in this community, they can agree with me in saying that 90% of Rebellions methods are very simple in design and easy to recreate. I suppose I should wow you with an example though. Below, I will write up a quick method that'll be a rubric for diplomacy missions. It is going to call on other methods of the missions class which obviously aren't present, but you'll get the general idea:

 

 

//Method to return the success or failure of diplomacy mission

public void diplomacyCheck()

{

 

int diplomacy = character.getDipomacyRating();

 

success = chanceMethod(diplomacy);

 

while (character.isOnMission){

boolean success;

if (success = true)

{

int planetDiplomacy = planet.getDiplomacy();

planetDiplomacy++; //Planet's rating goes up.

diplomacy++; //Character's rating goes up.

 

SuccessMessage message = new SuccessMessage(); //Success message.

}

 

else (success = false)

{

FailureMessage message = new FailureMessage(); //Failure Message.

}

}

}

 

 

Bam! We've just finished making diplomacy missions. Of course, there's tweaking to be done, but still. I will be posting up every inch of my code once we're officially started. It'll be completely open source, so you are all free to contribute. But for whomever said that all we have is total conversions? Not anymore.

[Evaders99]

The concepts may be easy, but creating the infrastructure is going to take the most time. Hope your team will be able to put in the effort.

[Moribundus]

I find your lack of faith... disturbing. No, but seriously. If there are any programmers in this community, they can agree with me in saying that 90% of Rebellions methods are very simple in design and easy to recreate. I suppose I should wow you with an example though. Below, I will write up a quick method that'll be a rubric for diplomacy missions. It is going to call on other methods of the missions class which obviously aren't present, but you'll get the general idea:

 

I do not lack faith, I'm merely saddened that instead of working on one big community project together, everyone's trying to make their own dream game. I created my project in the hopes that more people will join, but I wasn't so lucky (I admit my PR skills are also to blame).

 

Bam! We've just finished making diplomacy missions. Of course, there's tweaking to be done, but still. I will be posting up every inch of my code once we're officially started. It'll be completely open source, so you are all free to contribute. But for whomever said that all we have is total conversions? Not anymore.

 

I can't be wowed so easily The main flaw in your method is in using the "while(onMission)" construct, which would effectively block the whole game until the mission is completed. Using some kind of event scheduling is more desirable, although more complicated (just a detail ). Also you mustn't forget about network synchronisation and cheating prevention...and when you're done with that you'll probably realize that your dipomacy method is a considerable mess

 

However don't let me turn you down, if you have the right skills ad determination, you can make it. And open source is a good way to go

[Jahled]

Resource Management is the bugbear of the game; the outer rim (unexplored sectors?) is completely crap as a concept, also if you guys are serious abolish the 'natural disaster' from the game, and you will be everyone's friend.

 

Seriously, elements of resource management make no sense, like how a system can be blokaded by an an unarmed Heavy Transport are simply stupid

[nordwindranger]

Hmmm I would have to say that some of the game mechanics are actually quite difficult and involved. For example, here the "fleet" code from my old Reb2 project. This code managed a collection (or fleet) of ships, and mostly dealt with handling orders from the alliance

 

http://nordwindranger.com/codeDump.aspx

 

In either case I will be interested to read more about your project. Please post a website if you have one, or just keep us updated

[DavidAdas]

I can't be wowed so easily The main flaw in your method is in using the "while(onMission)" construct, which would effectively block the whole game until the mission is completed. Using some kind of event scheduling is more desirable, although more complicated (just a detail ). Also you mustn't forget about network synchronisation and cheating prevention...and when you're done with that you'll probably realize that your dipomacy method is a considerable mess

Well, you are certainly right I only put in there what I felt was necessary to prove my point. There are other considerations that were not put there such as the code to handle multiple methods (for the while loop). As for the network aspect, I'm not entirely sure how to approach that quite yet. There's multiple ideas but I'll wait and see how large the game gets.

 

 

Resource Management is the bugbear of the game; the outer rim (unexplored sectors?) is completely crap as a concept, also if you guys are serious abolish the 'natural disaster' from the game, and you will be everyone's friend.

 

Seriously, elements of resource management make no sense, like how a system can be blokaded by an an unarmed Heavy Transport are simply stupid

 

Well, I agree with the natural disaster part. But seeing as how the planets will have static resources, there wouldn't be a reason for those anyway. And as for Heavy Transport blocks, while I do agree, I'd have to see how everyone else feels about that before I go doing it. It's a game mechanic at this point and thus can be a touchy subject.

 

In either case I will be interested to read more about your project. Please post a website if you have one, or just keep us updated

First off, nice code! Some great ideas I hadn't thought of.

 

I will be posting it all up on a site once finals are over with They end this Friday. By that Monday I hope to have the classic "auto-load" menu (with Imperial March) working and maybe even have it open the GUI for the game.

[DarthTex]

Below, I will write up a quick method that'll be a rubric for diplomacy missions. It is going to call on other methods of the missions class which obviously aren't present, but you'll get the general idea:

 

 

//Method to return the success or failure of diplomacy mission

public void diplomacyCheck()

{

 

int diplomacy = character.getDipomacyRating();

 

success = chanceMethod(diplomacy);

 

while (character.isOnMission){

boolean success;

if (success = true)

{

int planetDiplomacy = planet.getDiplomacy();

planetDiplomacy++; //Planet's rating goes up.

diplomacy++; //Character's rating goes up.

 

SuccessMessage message = new SuccessMessage(); //Success message.

}

 

else (success = false)

{

FailureMessage message = new FailureMessage(); //Failure Message.

}

}

}

 

 

Bam! We've just finished making diplomacy missions. Of course, there's tweaking to be done, but still. I will be posting up every inch of my code once we're officially started. It'll be completely open source, so you are all free to contribute. But for whomever said that all we have is total conversions? Not anymore.

Although my "coding skills" are obsolete (anyone remember ENIAC?), I still have some good ideas for those willing to update the game. I would hope that there would be several possible variables added to the success/detriment of diplomacy missions. In my opinion, an Imperial diplomat with a fleet in orbit is always more persuasive than without ; also, getting a successful espionage mission on the planet should provide some "info" to help sway opinion (and of course a failure, if detected, would reverse progress). Constructing facilities on planets that employ the populace should also increase support (and scrapping just the opposite); maybe tie in some "prestige" to the facilities to give better positive responses, i.e. it's better to work at a construction yard or shipyard, etc. than let's say a mine or refinery. And if R&D is done on the planet, another bonus.

 

I applaud you on your ambition, and only hope didn't bite off more than you can chew. Like mentioned earlier, many have stated lofty goals, too lofty; and the weight and length of the project crushed them before they got too far. If you do have a "team", then you are at a better position to spread the load and avoid the crush of "hopelessness". Good luck, and I can't wait to see your progress. I'll volunteer to be a sounding board for ideas, as that's probably all I would be able to handle.

[DavidAdas]

ENIAC? Heh, Turing-machines are always bad ass, no matter what generation you are from

 

Now that I think about it, though, you're right. Diplomacy will need to be re-evaluated for sure. I like your idea of using your fleet as the classic "big stick," that is quite good and wouldn't affect balance. After that, though, we need to decide how effective diplomacy should be or for whom it should be used. I always felt that the Imperials should have an alternative to diplomacy (let's be realistic here...) but again, that'd be a change I could only make if the community agreed.

 

And yes, I certainly am biting off more than I can chew, but that is why this will be open source. I'm also hoping to rely on the community for other things. For instance, I suck royally with photoshop. If someone here can help me make event photos, menus, character portraits, et cetera... It'd save me hours of frustration There's also modeling, sound clips, and of course those who have a wealth of ideas to capitalize on (such as yourself). So feel free to pitch in whatever you can!

[DavidAdas]

I have good news. Characters are almost completed. I've merely used the characters from the previous game, but I'm loading their information using .CSV files (meaning you will be able to make your own in the future). I will have a blog and the code up in a day or two.

 

It will be built like this inside the .CSV:

 

boolean isKnownJedi;

int Diplomacy;

int Combat;

int Espionage;

...

 

You'll be able to make your own by just inserting the information you want into a text file

Edited May 5, 2008 by DavidAdas

[DavidAdas]

http://swrebellion2.blogspot.com/

 

This is a makeshift blog I have up for now. My code is not yet up mainly because I need to properly comment it. Once it is, everyone is free to have a field day. Also, is there any character you'd specifically like to see in the game? Just want some ideas.

[Jahled]

1. Ground Units - We would like to see all combat units, not just main characters, gain experience upon success. We would like for you to be able to name your units, too.

 

Outstanding! This is something someone worked on here when I first joined that sadly came to naught. I assume this also involves troop regiments and fighter squadrons to some degree? That would be seriously ace, and would make logical sense. Be great fun to allocate names to such elite squadrons as well.

 

3. Capital Ships - We want to add more (maybe 4-5 for each side). Also, you'll be able to set up their formation and which flight group they will belong to beforehand. Other suggestions?

 

Stear clear of the more fanciful 'super ships' is all I can think of as friendly advise; Eclipses and Soverigns simply destroy gameplay; so nothing as dramatic and comical (excuse the pun) as twelve mile long targets for fighters as a personal observation.

 

 

4. Resource Management - Each planet will now display how much of a given resource it produces per turn and we will have a separate window to tell you where those resources are going. Sadly, no more limited minerals. There's a essay's worth in why, so if you want to know just PM me.

 

This sounds interesting, and is the one element of the game that you might have observed seriously pisses me off. I don't play the game on it's original settings simply because the 'Outer Rim,' is so crap; Oh the joys of discovering a system capable of supporting a single mine! But on a larger scale it simply doesn't make any sense, or game play enjoyable. With RebEd you can adjust the system settings of the energy for Coruscant and the Alliance Headquarters planet, are you able to modify this so all factors with every system are perhaps potentially modifiable? I would be able to have a mighty fine sleep after ten years obsession with this game if system in the galaxy had at least fifteen energy slots, to build with.

 

And no natural disaster. Ever. Wipe that from them game. Adjust the added resources/energy option, and with far greater frequency; make the galaxy much more logical as a place of economic development. It just might help the AI more fun to battle against as well.

 

I can only raise my hat to you fella. I've been playing this game all weekend with Darth Tex's new galaxy configuration, and am simply left amazed how I still love the game so much

[Slocket]

Good to see a nice team of fresh grads to work on this game. As for me, I am not up to date on code used today. I am still stuck back around 8 years ago; so my skills are very limited. I am just plotting along with basic Win32 GDI, Direct 3D, and OpenAL for sound mixing. Nothing fancy. Basic windows like 2D gaming as the original but higher resolutions.

 

I really wish you the best, always good to have alot of people going on it; eventually something may happen true!

Edited May 8, 2008 by Slocket

[DavidAdas]

http://www.adasgames.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/rebellion2.rar

 

Extract the program to Program Files, else it wont work right. And I hope that the program files folder is on your C:/ drive lol. Find the dist file folder inside the Rebellion 2 folder and click on the .JAR file there. It should open up.

 

The code itself is quite ugly and is in need of a revamp. If you hit options though you'll see what I'm doing with the characters. Had to change my original idea for the .CSVs because they slowed the program down. I was hoping to avoid showing it as it is now because it's somewhat sloppy, but I needed to prove I wasn't being lazy lol.

 

Any improvements or suggestions to the code? Would be glad to hear it!

 

If it doesn't work... cut me some slack heh. Super-duper-way-before-beta-alpha-gamma testing here, yanno?

[Moribundus]

First, what if I don't have a C drive at all (runing Linux as my primary OS)? Did you consider using relative paths instead of absolute ones? Eg. "soundfiles/sound clips/001.wav".

Also why don't you put them into another CSV file, so that your project is completely data driven (let's say NO to hardcoded limits )

 

Second, the way you treat resources (creating object when you need it and then releasing it when it goes out of scope) is unsuitable for a resource-heavy application like computer game (profiler will confirm it ) It is better to pre-load all required resources at the start of the program (or specific section like tactical simulator) and then just reuse them. This was probably slowing you down, when you were using CSV files.

 

I also noticed that you're storing whole lines from the CSV file in memory and parse them each time character's name/skill/etc. is requested, which is also a bit ineffective. If you extracted those data when loading the file for the first time and then store it in some more machine readable structure (special class), it woud be faster.

 

And make sure you don't abuse Swing too much, it's not exactly fast GUI library (quite on the contrary )

 

Hmm, another option worth exploring (if you really don't want to use CSV) might be to use database to store you resources in (perhaps SQLite, nothing big).

 

And finally, have you considered putitng you code to some publicly available SVN (or GIT) repository?

 

Well this was my criticism, hope it helps. And happy revamping

[JeZuS]

lol, bugger. I just spent an hour or so fleshing out how I wanted to load/save/default and mod the galaxy and reasources. I thought I would use XML and .NET serialization to do most of the hard work for me.

 

But now, I changed my mind. I want to save the image resources and stuff all in together so I might give the DB method a go. Embedded firebird perhaps. Even the extra overhead of requiring a tool to create mods with will still be easier in the long run.

 

At least the class structure still works! Additionally the move will bring me back into native code in which I am more familliar anyway.

 

Pointless post I know, but I felt I needed to tell someone

[DarthTex]

http://swrebellion2.blogspot.com/

 

This is a makeshift blog I have up for now. My code is not yet up mainly because I need to properly comment it. Once it is, everyone is free to have a field day. Also, is there any character you'd specifically like to see in the game? Just want some ideas.

Since you're working on characters first; don't put a limit to the number of characters per side. Maybe make it open ended in some way (read until EOF?). Are you planning to have multiple factions (i.e. pirates, other mini-fiefdoms, etc.). The reason I ask, maybe you can have characters that could be recruited by more than one side; make it a "first come, first recruit" type of scenario. Also, if the ever go "traitor" you can actually get them to switch sides. Each faction would start off with their "core" personnel plus a few minor characters. If things go "bad" for your side, you might lose half your minor characters. Just an idea. But at a minimum, having the possibility of being recruited by either side could make for some interesting play (i.e. what if Lando worked for the Imperials, just hypothesizing).

 

Getting rid of a hard limit to the number of anything (characters, fighters, troops, ships, etc.) would be a big bonus IMHO. Keep up the good work!

[DavidAdas]

lol, bugger. I just spent an hour or so fleshing out how I wanted to load/save/default and mod the galaxy and reasources. I thought I would use XML and .NET serialization to do most of the hard work for me.

 

But now, I changed my mind. I want to save the image resources and stuff all in together so I might give the DB method a go. Embedded firebird perhaps. Even the extra overhead of requiring a tool to create mods with will still be easier in the long run.

 

At least the class structure still works! Additionally the move will bring me back into native code in which I am more familliar anyway.

 

Pointless post I know, but I felt I needed to tell someone

 

Heh, it's okay. It's input nevertheless, and it's always welcome I find that other's ideas are what best inspire my own. That's not to say I steal ideas... but simply that, in programming, there's always just one or two blocks that we can't get passed without some inspiration.

 

Since you're working on characters first; don't put a limit to the number of characters per side. Maybe make it open ended in some way (read until EOF?). Are you planning to have multiple factions (i.e. pirates, other mini-fiefdoms, etc.). The reason I ask, maybe you can have characters that could be recruited by more than one side; make it a "first come, first recruit" type of scenario. Also, if the ever go "traitor" you can actually get them to switch sides. Each faction would start off with their "core" personnel plus a few minor characters. If things go "bad" for your side, you might lose half your minor characters. Just an idea. But at a minimum, having the possibility of being recruited by either side could make for some interesting play (i.e. what if Lando worked for the Imperials, just hypothesizing).

 

Getting rid of a hard limit to the number of anything (characters, fighters, troops, ships, etc.) would be a big bonus IMHO. Keep up the good work!

 

There will certainly be no limit to the number of characters per side. In fact, I'll just go ahead and start up the GUI that'll allow you to modify/add more characters to the game. As for multiple factions, though, I very well could add multiple factions, but I'd do that simply as a game modification once the entire game is complete (as it would take a considerable amount of time to code that). I'm a bit indifferent about making a few characters recruitable by either side because it'd take away the player's option to decide at when to start recruiting. I may add it as an additional game option though for sure!

 

I do like the idea of pirates in the outer rim though. Very much like the barbarians in Civilization 4. Would make colonization a bit harder, which I think the game does need. I'd make that an additional option as well.

[DarthTex]

... I'm a bit indifferent about making a few characters recruitable by either side because it'd take away the player's option to decide at when to start recruiting...

Has there ever been a decision? I start recruiting immediately every game, the only thing to decide is how many people are going to be tasked to do it. Why would you want to wait? You need those characters for vital functions (especially R&D)!

 

The choice I see is whether you put a number limit per side to keep things balanced, or make it get as many as you can. Which works out well if you have characters that could be recruited by either side.

[Jahled]

This all sounds very exciting! The potential for characters actually switching sides would be fantastic; Luke or Leia seeing the Dark would be ace, or Crix or Kyle seeing the light, ah yes, this sounds ace.

 

The prospect of loads more characters becoming available would make game play much more enjoyable, given the AI is a bit clumsy with allocating Admirals and Commanders in my experience, however much you try and help it with editing. Loads of Generals all over the place, would also be ace, and also the potential for having no real limit for all our favourite personalities from the Star Wars universe.

[DavidAdas]

Has there ever been a decision? I start recruiting immediately every game, the only thing to decide is how many people are going to be tasked to do it. Why would you want to wait? You need those characters for vital functions (especially R&D)!

 

The choice I see is whether you put a number limit per side to keep things balanced, or make it get as many as you can. Which works out well if you have characters that could be recruited by either side.

 

Note to self: Update journal immediately.

 

Yes, the game will have a game-type which will mix up diplomacy a bit. Some will be recruitable by both sides and some wont. You'll also be able to mod who can and who cannot, but this is only an additional game-type as it is (an extra option) but it will be there

 

This all sounds very exciting! The potential for characters actually switching sides would be fantastic; Luke or Leia seeing the Dark would be ace, or Crix or Kyle seeing the light, ah yes, this sounds ace.

 

The prospect of loads more characters becoming available would make game play much more enjoyable, given the AI is a bit clumsy with allocating Admirals and Commanders in my experience, however much you try and help it with editing. Loads of Generals all over the place, would also be ace, and also the potential for having no real limit for all our favourite personalities from the Star Wars universe.

 

Yes. We are actually exploring some AI ideas here. Lots of fun stuff to come soon. I hope to have a small package to demonstrate what we have together very soon. Aesthetics are kinda making things difficult (frames and pretty pictures) so it'll be a few. Keep a light out for us though!