U.S. 2008 Election

[DarthTex]

As for this, which I managed to overlook:

Ah, the young liberal brainwashing propoganda. I'll put this to bed with one person: Condoleezza Rice (she's a double minority; female & black). I'd vote for her in a heartbeat over McCain. It's not the sex or race SOCL, it's the platform. And "conservative" works best in my opinion.

I don't think I accused you of being a racist, Tex, and it's quite unfortunate you saw that in what I wrote...

Well, let's see ...

As for your question LaForge, I do not agree at all with what Tex says. This nonsense about it "not being the right time" and so forth is a load of conservative rhetoric we hear which I suspect has some rooting (but perhaps for not all conservatives) in racism or simply a fear of minorities. ...

Appears to me I read it right the first time

[SOCL]

Well, let's see ...

As for your question LaForge, I do not agree at all with what Tex says. This nonsense about it "not being the right time" and so forth is a load of conservative rhetoric we hear which I suspect has some rooting (but perhaps for not all conservatives) in racism or simply a fear of minorities. ...

Appears to me I read it right the first time

 

Tex, reread what I wrote, especially what I bolded and italicized text:

This nonsense about it "not being the right time" and so forth is a load of conservative rhetoric we hear which I suspect has some rooting (but perhaps for not all conservatives) in racism or simply a fear of minorities. ...

[DarthTex]

Well, let's see ...

As for your question LaForge, I do not agree at all with what Tex says. This nonsense about it "not being the right time" and so forth is a load of conservative rhetoric we hear which I suspect has some rooting (but perhaps for not all conservatives) in racism or simply a fear of minorities. ...

Appears to me I read it right the first time

 

Tex, reread what I wrote, especially what I bolded and italicized text:

This nonsense about it "not being the right time" and so forth is a load of conservative rhetoric we hear which I suspect has some rooting (but perhaps for not all conservatives) in racism or simply a fear of minorities. ...

I just assumed you threw me into the lot with the "other" evil conservatives

[SOCL]

I just assumed you threw me into the lot with the "other" evil conservatives

Long time to reply, I know, but...

 

Tex, if I had meant you, I promise you I wouldn't have hesitated to call you out.

[Jahled]

I think a Republican not at the political mercy of the religious or neo-con right, with a hard head, might at actually serve the the United States; and hence the world, with a little more effect than the Democrat squabbling I observe with some despair. We live in genuinely quite dangerous times, what Syria and Iran are trying to stir in Lebanon against it's democracy is simply further evidence of a world completely alien and abhorrent to me.

 

As an outside observer, and given the current US military commitments, I can't agree with immediate withdrawl from Iraq, so can't seem to wish either Democrat in the Whitehouse.

 

My vote here was wrong, earlier

[Darth_Rob]

I completely agree with you there J. Those who keep talking about a withdrawal from Iraq now are insane. The U.S. started this mess in Iraq, and to just up and leave it now would be horrible. It would only increase the instability of the already fragile government in place there now. Unfortunately, the continued occupation of Iraq is for the best right now.

 

What the government here needs to do is stop squabbling over the war in Iraq and to figure out a way to get over the energy crisis we are facing. The "Age of Oil' is coming to a close, I think, and the world needs to move on. The government should be looking more into alternative forms of energy like ethanol (not the best for the environment, but at least its renewable), electric, and hydrogen. The fact that the United States has such an interdependence in regards to fulfilling its energy needs is its greatest weakness, and rather than trying to lower oil prices, the concentration should be on starting to break away from that energy source.

[DarthTex]

What the government here needs to do is stop squabbling over the war in Iraq and to figure out a way to get over the energy crisis we are facing. The "Age of Oil' is coming to a close, I think, and the world needs to move on. The government should be looking more into alternative forms of energy like ethanol (not the best for the environment, but at least its renewable), electric, and hydrogen. The fact that the United States has such an interdependence in regards to fulfilling its energy needs is its greatest weakness, and rather than trying to lower oil prices, the concentration should be on starting to break away from that energy source.

The US has "gobs" of oil to drill, it's just the uber-tree huggers & their $ to politicians that prevent us from getting at it, plus even "thinking" of building infrastructure (pipelines, refineries) for it. There hasn't been a new refinery built in the US for over ~30 years because of the laws & regulations (unless, of course you're willing to wait the 10+ years for it to be constructed and pay double whatever the price of gas is when it finally comes online). Even as I type, China and Nigeria are preparing to drill off the coast of Florida for oil! The US could be oil independent; the question is will we pay until it is possible, and how long will it last?

 

Ethanol is NOT the "renewable" resource it's made out to be. It actually take more energy to process & deliver it than it's worth. Plus, there's the drop in the "food crop" to make it. Some would say it is immoral to make fuel from food crops when there are people starving in the world. I just don't think it's smart to use more energy to make it than what it will produce. Plus it is said to generate more CO2 "green house gas" that oil based gas (if you fall for that global warming scam). Even the environmentalists are having second thoughts on wind farms (another "renewable" energy source), as having oversized avian cuisinarts isn't all that nice for the local bird populations. I'd prefer nuclear myself (fusion should it ever be perfected, but as a necessary evil fission). Ever since Three Mile Island everybody is scared out of their wits (just a small reminder: technology has advanced in the last ~30 years!). (I shudder to say this next sentence, but ...) France has ~80% of its power needs from nuclear power. (** knocks on wood **). With more nuclear generated power, it would be possible to have "fleets" of electric vehicles such that the "oil beast" would be off our backs. Of course the conspiracies that come out are that "Big Oil" is surpressing technology and influencing politicians along with the auto industry to keep this from happening. Maybe ...

[Jahled]

Yes, I am a fan of Nuclear Power as well, when handled sensibly, it's clean and can be environmentally friendly. Arguments saying it's not are surely shadowed to the damage fossil burning has done, either directly or in the long run (where I suspect I may disagree with you Tex, my friend )

 

We can't be that far off Fusion either, we just have to have faith in the development of the technology.

[Darth_Rob]

The US has "gobs" of oil to drill, it's just the uber-tree huggers & their $ to politicians that prevent us from getting at it, plus even "thinking" of building infrastructure (pipelines, refineries) for it. There hasn't been a new refinery built in the US for over ~30 years because of the laws & regulations (unless, of course you're willing to wait the 10+ years for it to be constructed and pay double whatever the price of gas is when it finally comes online). Even as I type, China and Nigeria are preparing to drill off the coast of Florida for oil! The US could be oil independent; the question is will we pay until it is possible, and how long will it last?

 

In that case, nuke the hippies! I know that once the Alaska pipeline was built in the 1980s it caused the decline in the price of oil. But I still think that the US society is too dependent on oil, where the loss of it would be catastrophic.

 

As for ethanol, I still think it can be a convenient renewable resource. Some crops, especially switchgrass, are going to yield more energy than others like corn and sugar. Switchgrass is not something people can eat, so it will not cut into food production, and you will not have that feeling of wasting food. Sure, some farmers will stop growing food crops in order to shift to switchgrass, but the country has to much land that there is plenty of space for more farms to sprout up and be profitable.

 

What it comes down to is that oil is just there, and when its gone its gone. Nuclear power is an interesting concept, but I dont think it would be a good source of power for personal vehicles. I just cant imagine a bunch of nuclear reactors driving down the road. Though I guess you can argue the same thing for hydrogen. And ethanol does have its problems in terms of its extensive production process. I just think that world governments have to start planning now for the future.

[DarthTex]

...Nuclear power is an interesting concept, but I dont think it would be a good source of power for personal vehicles. I just cant imagine a bunch of nuclear reactors driving down the road...

Good gracious Rob! With the way Americans drive, the country would be destroyed by the end of the day!

 

What I was trying to get across was to have more nuclear power plants (better than the old ones that we're still allowed to use ... so far) to generate electricity, so the population can have electric cars I'm sure we'll never totally get rid of gas or diesel, but oil imports could be dramatically reduced if city/urban settings used electric vehicles (where short range driving is the majority).

 

Nuclear cars?! You crack me up Rob!

[Darth_Rob]

HAHAHA!

 

In that case, I totally agree with you Tex. I guess I thought your senility was kicking in and you wanted a nuclear holocaust on the interstate...

 

"Dr. Tex, or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Atomic Car Bomb"

[Jahled]

...Nuclear power is an interesting concept, but I dont think it would be a good source of power for personal vehicles. I just cant imagine a bunch of nuclear reactors driving down the road...

Good gracious Rob! With the way Americans drive, the country would be destroyed by the end of the day!

 

Yes quite!

 

What I was trying to get across was to have more nuclear power plants (better than the old ones that we're still allowed to use ... so far) to generate electricity, so the population can have electric cars I'm sure we'll never totally get rid of gas or diesel, but oil imports could be dramatically reduced if city/urban settings used electric vehicles (where short range driving is the majority).

 

^this^ with trumpets, I have no idea if this is would be feasible in rural America (which is very large), but is a practical solution in urban centres at least for the time being. Getting people into small electric hybrids in London is more or less working as a solution to chronic congestion not least, given such cars are exempt from the 'congestion charge' levied at vehicles travelling through central London, and people are switching; with the exception of the wealthiest areas where the school run seems to still involve the apparent need of four by fours fuel guzzlers by thoughtless middle-class types who 'feel safer' in vehicles designed for the countryside.

[DarthTex]

"Dr. Tex, or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Atomic Car Bomb"

That has a nice ring to it Rob!

[Jahled]

Did I ever express my laughter, btw, when I received an email from my dad who lives in Ontario in Canada, ranting about the price of petrol? I think it was when I used to be a chauffeur controller in charge of the various S-class Mercedes models in the late nineties before I signed up to this site; and had to do stuff like juggle sending some of them out on jobs on account of their fuel intake and how much was made on each job. Off the top of my head we only had two S-class 600's on the fleet that were more or less tied up with the Spice Girls, which I didn't have to concern myself with to much; but a couple of S-class 500's I did have to sending them anywhere in the City of London; given they were liable to get stuck in traffic, burning money; even if it was for a director of Chase Manhattan or Deutsche Bank being driven only as far as City of London Airport. Tricky times.

 

The laughter set in, after such a day juggling these fuel consuming beasts, when he revealed he drove a 7.2 litre four by four. Class dad! It was soon reduced to a frown, however when I looked at the pictures of his car, and house in the snow; (with my little bro, aged about ten ) and I understood.

 

Such vehicles have a purpose; just not in the centre of cities, logic would dictate.

[Eagle]

So I don´t know if it´s already official yet, but it looks like that Hillary Clinton steps back from her candidacy. Is that for sure now? Than people will have the choice between a well known but old man and a much younger candidate which they claim as unexperienced. Which is a poor argument, because also McCain has never been President of the United States, so he´s also unexperienced.

 

But back to Hillary. Some will be rather disappointed that she´s stepping back, especially some women. Because she could have been the first female president. On the other side there will be also some who will be just more than happy, like our all Rob. Isn´t it?

 

So Rob, this is for you than:

[Evaders99]

Which is a poor argument, because also McCain has never been President of the United States, so he´s also unexperienced.

 

No one is saying he has experience being president. The argument is experience as a politician and Congressman.

 

John McCain, since 1982

two terms as a Representative in Congress, 4 terms as a Senator in Congress

 

Barack Obama, since 2004

one term as Senator in Congress

 

Experience is everything - how to get things done. I actually believe McCain has a position that he will stand on if he is elected President. I doubt Obama will be so strong in the office, relying on what his advisors say is popular rather than what he truly believes.

[Darth_Rob]

It will indeed be a national holiday when Hillary announces that she is dropping out. Unfortunately, I don't think its an official stance by her yet. She still sees herself in the running. Grrr...she makes me so mad.

 

But I gotta agree with E on the whole Obama inexperience thing. He has not served the federal government for anywhere near as long as McCain has.

[SOCL]

I don't buy this "experience is everything" bit. The two commanders-in-chief (i.e. Presidents) of the United States generally considered the "best" (and I don't want to get into an argument about this--it's a consensus bit) are Abraham Lincoln who led the USA through the Civil War and Franklin D. Roosevelt who led the USA through the Second World War. Neither one of them had any military experience. Then we have President Kennedy who handled the Cuban Missile Crisis with grace bordering on genius, never letting it escalate to the catastrophe of warfare, and he had about as much experience as Barack Obama. Or what about Ronald Reagan, a man who has acquired near-deity status in the USA, especially among the more conservative elements of this country: he was an actor. Yes, he may have been Governor of California, but I have serious doubts the current conservative elements of this country would even think of nominating someone with that same background.

 

Sometimes new blood is necessary.

[DarthTex]

It will indeed be a national holiday when Hillary announces that she is dropping out. Unfortunately, I don't think its an official stance by her yet. She still sees herself in the running. Grrr...she makes me so mad.

 

But I gotta agree with E on the whole Obama inexperience thing. He has not served the federal government for anywhere near as long as McCain has.

Don't worry about it Rob, just think of it this way: the longer she stays in the race, the more her and Obama attack each other rather than McCain. McCain's been doing the presidential campaigning for awhile now, and they're still at each other's throats. When the convention is over with (Obama should get it, but it will be ugly regardless with Hillary or Obama supporters), then they only have a couple of months before the election to actually campaign against McCain.

 

If Obama wins the presidency, prepare for the worst taxes & unemployment this country has ever seen since the Great Depression. We'll have to change the name of the country to the United Socialists of America

 

(Just my opinion SOCL)

[SOCL]

I rather like that. It would be nice to see some social democracy, or democracy at all, instated after the "fascist shift" (to use the words of Naomi Wolfe) this country took under the current Administration. That's also just my opinion, Tex.

 

 

To be quite honest, I can't wait until this is all over. Hopefully come December, when the matter is over with and all the dust has settled, all this political in-fighting and bitterness will go away, or more likely decrease. The tension is a primary reason I don't hang around these boards quite as much as I used to, so when this election is all over, I'll be very happy.

[Lord_La_forge]

Nice to see, that nobody changed views over the past months I wasn't here LOL

[DarthTofu]

Clinton is dropping out. She said that she's waiting to do so until Friday, and that at that time she will endorse Obama. Question: Why the heck is she "waiting" until Friday? Is she planning to continue pushing for the Presidency until Friday? If she's already announced her intention, this is really just, to quote the media, "forty-eight hours of turmoil."

[Eagle]

Nice to see, that nobody changed views over the past months I wasn't here LOL

Nice to see that this thread brings at least some of the "lost sons" back. Wb, LaForge.

 

@Tofu

That´s indeed a good question! I also wondered about that and I believe that it could possible that there are maybe some contracts running out or something that way.

[Darth_Rob]

All I know is that she is gonna try her damn best to get on Obama's ticket as VP. I hope he's not that stupid. He should go with Edwards, who endorsed him awhile ago.

 

I wouldn't put it past Hillary to "off" Obama during his term so that she could take his place. She's pure evil, and way to power-hungry to be running the nation.

[DarthTofu]

Hillary will totally try for the VP spot. And you know what? She won't get it. The polls show that she's way too controversial. Go for Edwards, Obama!