Past or Future?

[Guest Scathane]

I was just answering Jahled's question...

Indeed it's outside the topic... i shall punish myself then. No more ice-cream for today Trej. please it's so hot here just a bit... No, Trej no more ice-cream....

Okay this will remind me of not getting off topic again, and since I won't be eating Ice cream I think i'll take a cold shower.

By the way, how hot is it in Costa Rica currently?!

[SOCL]

By the way, how hot is it in Costa Rica currently?!

It's probably as hot as Puerto Rico, tropical and humid with a nice breeze. But then again, I'm speculating. And who better to answer the question than someone who lives there and who had the question addressed to them. So, without further ado. . . .

 

 

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Trej? . . .

[ElvisMiggell]

It's really hot in my office if that helps?

 

Um, I quite like the way that the NJO stuff is headed at the moment, but really I'm a total fan who'll take whatever he can get!!!

[SOCL]

It's really hot in my office if that helps?

 

Um, I quite like the way that the NJO stuff is headed at the moment, but really I'm a total fan who'll take whatever he can get!!!

I know what you mean. I'll take it as it comes because, ultimately, that's the way it is. Of course, there's no denying it, we all have our wants and hopes that it'll turn out different. For some of is it's that hope that we won't see the Executor crash into the second Death Star, for others it's that hope of not seeing Solo frozen in carbonite. But it comes as it comes and, happily, it usually comes to point we can all be happy with (except the prequels . . . the quality of which is still in debate).

[Guest Scathane]

Agreed: come what come may...

 

With regard to the prequels... I still think that you had a valid point with regard to your cousins, SOCL.

[SOCL]

Agreed: come what come may...

 

With regard to the prequels... I still think that you had a valid point with regard to your cousins, SOCL.

Thanks! Well, I just seem to be getting around of agreements and "good job" (etc) today.

[Guest Scathane]

Well, let's be honest: a lot of us feel that the prequels were mediocre or we give it another sobriquet of incompetence... I personally feel that we have to admit that for us, Star Wars is episodes IV to VI... Just as the fact that for some people Sean Connery is the real james Bond and for others it's Roger Moore.

 

Personally, I feel that the prequels are good movies... Nevertheless, I feel that GL has lessend the contrast between black and white, the juxtaposition between good and evil. Episodes IV to VI were rather archaic: we had a masked villain in black and a hero in white (at least in the first two he wore white). There was a princess, a scoundrel and a walking carpet whose aaibaarheidsfactor (a typically Dutch word which means huggability factor) is off the scale... I mean, compare that to: a queen whose chosen by the people, midi-chlorians, an immaculately conceived, the galactic senate, Gungans in general and Jar-Jar Binks in particular... Then, to top it all off, GL puts in a tatooed villain in black who doesn't talk much..., and he kills him off after his first appearance!

 

Beside that, in episodes IV to VI, the prequels were a time of legend... Now that we actually get to see that legend, we discover that we might have liked it more as a legend. Nevertheless, I feel that GL isn't doing a bad job, I just think he should think certain things through before putting them up on the white screen...

[Trejiuvanat]

I couldn't have said it better, Scath. It's the demythification of the Clone Wars. After that sentence in ANH I had always thought of the Clone Wars as an epic conflict, Jedi vs. clones, for that matter, not just clones versus battledroids.... That was quite disappointing.

 

In Costa Rica the rainy season has started so it's raining all over the country. Here in the Central VAlley the temperatures down's to 26º, in the dry season it's up to 31º. WE are 1500m above the sea level. It's horribly humid and there is a breeze that brings more humidity, we are almos t always above 85%.

[Guest Scathane]

I couldn't have said it better, Scath. It's the demythification of the Clone Wars. After that sentence in ANH I had always thought of the Clone Wars as an epic conflict, Jedi vs. clones, for that matter, not just clones versus battledroids.... That was quite disappointing.

I don't quite follow you there, Trej...

 

In Costa Rica the rainy season has started so it's raining all over the country. Here in the Central VAlley the temperatures down's to 26º, in the dry season it's up to 31º. WE are 1500m above the sea level. It's horribly humid and there is a breeze that brings more humidity, we are almos t always above 85%.

85% moisture in the air???!!!

[Trejiuvanat]

Probably lots of my neurons (the few I had) fried at the beach. I meant to argument further that the prequels are mediocre. I always envisioned the prequels as some legendary epic fight, not just a masterplan behind a group of separatists that fight with stupid battledroids. When Kenobi answers to luke's question regarding his participation in the CLone Wars Kenobi says something like: "Yes, I was once a Jedi Knight, just like your father."

If I had been GL I would have started Ep I with the clone wars and have them end in Ep III. As I mentioned elsewhere I have written my own version of EP I and have already the whole outline for the rest.

 

Yes, 85% moisture in the air. that's pretty low here, in some places you usually get as high as 98%.

[Guest Scathane]

Yes, 85% moisture in the air. that's pretty low here, in some places you usually get as high as 98%.

How do you keep from drowning?

[Trejiuvanat]

I don't know? I guess we may have some Calamarian genes in here...

[Guest Scathane]

I don't know? I guess we may have some Calamarian genes in here...

Now I understand why you became Vong... Anyone of us would break down and cry upon discovering s/he was a Calamari... Not Trej, though: he became Vong...

 

By the way, are you sure you aren't mixing things up with Mon Costarica?!

[SOCL]

Back to what you were saying earlier, Scath: I do quite agree that it was far better and more interesting to have people dropping hints about the Clone Wars and the past than to actually see it. Sure, we all want to see the Clone Wars and what-not, but sadly that ruins many great ideas and visions we had about it and the mystical mystery of STAR WARS is, ultimately lost. I also liked reading Heir to the Empire, Dark Force Rising, and The Last Command and read a few hints here and there about the past (pre-Empire) and the Clone Wars. I was, obviously, curious to know more, but when I got more information, the subject became utterly dull and I lost interest almost completely. That's why I particularly dislike anything that is pre-ANH simply because of the fact that GL tries to explain something that should not be explained and is better left to the imagination of fans. He tried to explain too much and now . . . well, displeasure.

 

It's kind of how it is with most of my stories. I wrote a story called The End; it was quite short and centralized on the main character (named Char) who had been part of a gang once in his life and then had decided to leave. The story tells of his struggles in the last two years of his life and how the gang hunted him down until death. On a suggestion (which I agreed to) I wrote up a prequel to that entitled The Median, which takes place roughly a year before the events of End. Even so, there were MANY, MANY, MANY hints of a en enormously important past that only I, the author, knew and the reader was left to invision as s/he wished to. I left the story as was, but more and more letters and nagging came in, along with more and more suggestions for storylines for a past. So, I eventaully, against my will, gave in and started drafting up the first story The Beginning. How did it turn out? Well, let's put it this way, this story series (eventitled simply The B M E) ended up going from my favorite piece of literature I had ever written to a vexatious task! Simply because I went back and wrote down what I all ready knew in my mind to be the past, I ruined the story for myself. Luckily, I did not release any of it so my readers--though they continue to vex me for the story--have not had it ruined for themselves.

 

My point is that everyone has a different way of seeing things. I imagined the Clone Wars as Jedi vs. clones. I also imagined the clones as being many, many Madolrian clones who wore the armor (that seen sported by Jango and Boba Fett). I imagined them as being genius tacticians who could have easily wiped out the Republic had it not been for some lucky moves and decisions made by the government. I never imagined seeing clones as actually being Fett (much less Boba Fett being a clone himself), fighting on the side of the Republic, and dressed up in pre-stormtrooper armor! What the hell? I mean, stormtroopers were meant to be special and tough, striking fear into everyone (or so it seemed when Ben Kenobi was talking about them in ANH). They weren't suppose to be the regular army! So now another situation rises where the value of a stormtrooper has decreased in my mind and the value of a regular Imperial trooper (the guys in black uniforms and big, black helmets) has decreased to the point of janitorial status!

 

Honestly, I'm glad Lucas made STAR WARS, but in my personal opinion, I believe he should be the owner and producer and let the directing be done my good directors! I mean, look at TESB and ROTJ! They were directed by different people and look at their success! Along with that, I read an interview with Mark Hammil that said that "back in the day" during the making of the original triology, GL always had a critic on-site who would make sure nothing stupid got by. I mean, for goodness sake, the critic almost didn't let "the Force" pass into the movie! And now, look: midi-chlorians, a cool-looking (quiet) villian slain almost instantly, good clones, a "flying" Yoda (not bad, just unexpected), Kenobi as the apprentice of someone who's not Yoda, Gungans (in general), Jar-Jar (in particular)! The list goes on!!! GL won't allow a critic around anymore because he's (according to sources) like a little kid who doesn't like other people telling him that somethings sounds stupid. With GL it's: my way or the highway. Simply put: he needs someone to keep him in check, even if he is the owner!

 

I wonder what will happen to LucasFilm after GL's death? Maybe those in the company are just waiting for him to "pass on" to make a third triology (way in the future) or release a new and improved prequel triology (kind of a like a SUPER special edition). Not exactly the most correct theory, but an idea, nonetheless.

[Trejiuvanat]

I agree with you SOCL on the lots of things that GL messed up with by making the prequels.

That's why I started writing my own. Clones vs. Jedi, with chars that were mentioned in the EU, Nejaa Halcyon, Ylenic It'Kla, Rostek Horn. I even have a clone of Kenobi around. Even Thrawn and the Outbound Flight, Doriana, Anakin with a dad (he's dead), Palpy is the senator to Coruscant (that helps explain his anti-alien bias).

GL made this new prequels out of commercial purposes, Jar-Jar's in there, because for four-years olds he's a funny char, anakin is a kid, because 10 years old will easily identify with him, kenobi's there for girls between fifteen and twenty, lightsaber, fighter and certainly padme nabierre for the rest of us.

I too had heard that the cloens would be wearing fett's armor, i heard of a water planet in the movies, i heard that bespin would be there, lots of thigns simply disappeared or were altered just to attract more public, and not only sw fans who have read books, ans seen the movies zillion times.

 

SOCL, would you start a forum like: What the prequels could have been for us to discuss any ideas we may have had for the prequels. I could do it, but I may eventually be having a monologue.

[Guest Scathane]

I'm sorry, but I feel you guys are gravely oversimplifying things. Sure, GL made the movies to be a commercial succes: you think he made the first three just for fun???!!! If there is any real difference, it's probably that the first three movies were much more unique and innovative. When GL first rounded up an SFX group and told them he wanted a science fiction movie with full motion battles in space, they declared him mad. How different it is today, when we can see science fiction and full motion space battles every day.

 

For the rest of it: I believe that episodes IV-VI were more archaic, more classical. These episodes rely heavily on medieval imagery. You're right when you say that GL demystifies things in/by the prequels. However, I don't agree that this is alway a problem. I personally feel that it was brilliant to see Yoda in a saberfight.

 

I must admit that I don't like what GL did to midichlorians... But I feel that it is different than the previous example: in IV-VI, GL asserted the Force as something mystical, almost religious. In the prequel, he turns it into something biological, that's a huge difference for something (the force) that's one of the key elements of your theme. In this instance, I don't even feel it's demystification but just plain wrong. On the other hand, how do you think magic would have been regarded in the days when it was used normally?

[Trejiuvanat]

The whole mythification is one of the things I didn't like. The original trilogy has this whole medival aura around it. I had expected the prequels to be more epic, more legend than reality, and not simply a desmythification, picturign the clone wars as any modern war, picturing palpy's rise as hitler's in 1933.

Just as a side comment what do you think of Chewie in EP III?

 

""We get our preliminary first draft of the script next week, which we're very excited about," says Producer Rick McCallum, who is currently overseeing the preparation of Fox Studios in Sydney, Australia. In just over two months, the stages of the motion picture facility will be the used for shooting Episode III.

 

"We're currently on schedule to begin on or around June 30, finishing some time in September," says McCallum. Already, the crew down under has enough information from George Lucas to begin construction of environments, props and costumes.

 

"After that George will be rewriting to a more formal first draft and will keep revising right up until the start of shooting," adds McCallum. "The story he wants to tell is firmly in his head. All the details are stored away in there, without a lot of influence from anyone else. He's been talking a lot about how this movie fits with Episode IV in some very cool and unexpected ways."

 

It won't be until the summer (or technically, the southern hemisphere's winter) that the actors arrive in Australia, but already Stunt Coordinator Nick Gillard has met briefly with both Hayden Christensen and Ewan McGregor in the US. "Hayden is coming shortly to begin massive rehearsals, stunt rehearsals. We expect Ewan in the next 4-5 weeks. He's starting to work on all the fight sequences in the movie which I think will be extraordinary," he said.

"

This is out of the Star Wars Homing Beacon

[Guest Scathane]

The whole mythification is one of the things I didn't like. The original trilogy has this whole medival aura around it. I had expected the prequels to be more epic, more legend than reality, and not simply a desmythification, picturign the clone wars as any modern war, picturing palpy's rise as hitler's in 1933.

Well, to put the magic-remark in another way: how do you think the days of legend looked in their own time? That's inherent to legend and myth: they can only be what they are because you regard them from the future...

 

Just as a side comment what do you think of Chewie in EP III?

What of it? I am not quite sure how he's going to serve the story...

[Jahled]

"The story he wants to tell is firmly in his head. All the details are stored away in there, without a lot of influence from anyone else. He's been talking a lot about how this movie fits with Episode IV in some very cool and unexpected ways."

 

I would be a bummer if George got wiped out in a car accident.

[Trejiuvanat]

Nah, he's got enoguh Spaarti cloning cylinders to prevent that.

 

AS to Chewie, I don't know either how that furry carpet would fit the story, perhpas aiding Obi-Wan or Padme to leave Coruscant or soemthign like that.

I don' tlike it, but well....

[Guest Scathane]

Nah, he's got enoguh Spaarti cloning cylinders to prevent that.

 

AS to Chewie, I don't know either how that furry carpet would fit the story, perhpas aiding Obi-Wan or Padme to leave Coruscant or soemthign like that.

I don' tlike it, but well....

Precisely... If he's going to get Chewie in, then he's bound to get questions again after episode III... I mean, it's the same with R2D2 and C3PO... (the question there was why Vader doens't seem to recognise C3PO in the movies, when the prequels clearly state that he made them...

[Trejiuvanat]

I agree with you on that, GL has screwed up big with that kind of stuff, it seems as if he had forgotten details of the original three movies...

Like the Obi-Wan Yoda thing, YOda was supposed to be Kenobi's master, there was no Qui-Gon.

[SOCL]

(the question there was why Vader doens't seem to recognise C3PO in the movies, when the prequels clearly state that he made them...

Of course, he should have recognized his one protocol droid out of a hundred BILLION in an entire galaxy. I can see why Vader might not recognize C-3PO. A good question is this: Kenobi, in Episode II, has an astromech droid. But in IV he says: "I don't recall every owning a droid". I don't mean he sould have been able to identify his astromech from any other, but the fact that he clearly said he never owned one. I doubt he meant literally never owned one, but more of he never had one in his possession (which he clearly did in AOTC). Along with that, why did neither C-3PO nor R2 recognize Kenobi? Were their memories cleaned somewhere between the movies?

[Trejiuvanat]

a memory wipe could occur... but how would you justify chewie? it's just stupid.

[Guest Scathane]

(the question there was why Vader doens't seem to recognise C3PO in the movies, when the prequels clearly state that he made them...

First of all, SOCL, you're quoting Trejiuvanat here... It was I who made the original remark, though...

 

Of course, he should have recognized his one protocol droid out of a hundred BILLION in an entire galaxy. I can see why Vader might not recognize C-3PO.

I don't. He made C3PO for crying out loud! In watching the movies, you may have noticed that C3PO actually has a personality..., which makes him distinguishable. If your point were valid, I could just as well say: "Of course, SOCL should recognise his one mother out of 1 billion in the entire world." There being a lot of something doesn't mean we have to choose from them all, it's called recognition, SOCL.

 

A good question is this: Kenobi, in Episode II, has an astromech droid. But in IV he says: "I don't recall every owning a droid".

No, it isn't a good question. Where is it said in Episode II that he owns that droid?

 

I don't mean he sould have been able to identify his astromech from any other, but the fact that he clearly said he never owned one.

Pay attention here, SOCL... You're stating that Obi-Wan is clearly stating that he never owned a droid...

 

I doubt he meant literally never owned one, but more of he never had one in his possession (which he clearly did in AOTC).

Here you're stating that you don't think that he meant literally having one in his possession...

 

To summarize: if someone clearly states that he doesn't recall owning something, then why do you think they don't actually mean having that something in their possession?

 

Along with that, why did neither C-3PO nor R2 recognize Kenobi? Were their memories cleaned somewhere between the movies?

Finally a good question... GL has answered some question about this on the Jedi Council somewhere. I believe it were safety precautions indeed that made them so.