Some things aren't logical...

[Eagle]

When you watch all of the six Star Wars movies, than you find out some things they did in the prequell trilogy which didn't fit to the classic one and aren´t logical nor they weren't explained in any of these movies.

 

For example, why has Yoda go into an exile? Just because he didn´t defeated Sidious/Palplatine? He could have helped the rebellion or the opposition like Luke later did. After nearly all jedis were killed he should train new jedis. But instead of that he went off and lived on a swampy unknown little planet and left the whole galaxy to the sith. Doesn´t sound really logical, isn´t it.

 

Than we have Leia who mentioned in "The Return of the Jedi" that she has memories of her deceased mother aka Padme Amidala-Skywalker. But as we all could see was that Padme died right after the birth of Luke and Leia. Leia was a baby there and allthough she has jedi-powers within her, even she can´t remember things they´d happen at her birth.

 

Another example is the story about Jango and Boba Fett. Boba is an identical clone of Jango. While Jango used to fight with two Blaster-Pistols, Boba prefers to use a sawn-off Blaster-Rifle. Maybe it was more common to fight with pistols in the days of the old republic. But if you have got genes of a gunslinger than you would use that too. In the "Clone Wars" movies you can even see a clone-comander who prefers fighting with a pistol the same way that Jango did. Allthough he isn´t a 1:1 clone of him. So why doesn´t Boba fight like that?

[DarthTofu]

I'll give you the first two, but the third I won't give you any of.

 

We are a product of, yes, our genetics, but also of our environment. The ability to fight with, say, a pair of blaster pistols, is an aquired trait. That is to say, it's something that you learned to do. The fact that the you in one scenario would learn to use blaster pistols rather than a rifle is immaterial when applied to a totally new scenario for growing up. Boba was young when his 'father' died, and as a result he learned relatively little from Jango.

 

It's akin to how a sports star can have a child who goes on to persue a career in astrophysics- the fact that someone in your genetic line learned to do something does not give you a genetic disposition toward having the ability to do that.

 

Granted, this is all assuming that Boba had none of Jango's memories inprinted in him, which he probably didn't seeing as it would be very odd raising yourself and talking to yourself, now wouldn't it?

[ElvisMiggell]

When you watch all of the six Star Wars movies, than you find out some things they did in the prequell trilogy which didn´t fit to the classic one and aren´t logical nor they weren´t explained in any of these movies.

 

For example, why has Yoda go into an exile? Just because he didn´t defeated Sidious/Palplatine? He could have helped the rebellion or the opposition like Luke later did. After nearly all jedis were killed he should train new jedis. But instead of that he went off and lived on a swampy unknown little planet and left the whole galaxy to the sith. Doesn´t sound really logical, isn´t it.

 

I think it's supposed to be something to do with the fact that Yoda knew Darth Sidious was going to hunt down all the Jedi and exterminate them, and he and Obi-Wan knew that Luke and Leia would be there only hope, so they had to keep a low profile.

 

Than we have Leia who mentioned in "The Return of the Jedi" that she has memories of her deceased mother aka Padme Amidala-Skywalker. But as we all could see was that Padme died right after the birth of Luke and Leia. Leia was a baby there and allthough she has jedi-powers within her, even she can´t remember things they´d happen at her birth.

 

I think this is supposed to be a mixture of impressions of her real mother, Amidala, through the force, in later books we see women who are pregnant with force sensitive kids getting strong impressions from them, even when in the womb. It may also be that Leia is confused with her adoptive mother, who we know has has several miscarriages, which i imagine would leave her pretty unhappy from time to time.

 

Another example is the story about Jango and Boba Fett. Boba is an identical clone of Jango. While Jango used to fight with two Blaster-Pistols, Boba prefers to use a sawn-off Blaster-Rifle. Maybe it was more common to fight with pistols in the days of the old republic. But if you have got genes of a gunslinger than you would use that too. In the "Clone Wars" movies you can even see a clone-comander who prefers fighting with a pistol the same way that Jango did. Allthough he isn´t a 1:1 clone of him. So why doesn´t Boba fight like that?

 

I think that's a genetics vs environment thing. Having read the Clone Commandos books it shows how the clones develop very different personalities from each other, all the same physioplogically, but distinctly different at the same time.

[Darth_Rob]

I agree with EM. Yoda had to hide out so that he could the new generation. If Palpy got wind of Yoda helping the Rebellion, he would have had Vader out after him in a second. Yoda just couldn't it.

 

As for Leia, I think she probably got confused at a young age with memories of the Organas. The question is, how much did the Organas tell her? Did they tell Leia that her mother died during childbirth, or that she died while she was young?

 

As for Boba, it might have had to do with technology. Maybe the blaster rifle proved to be a more powerful and accurate weapon than two pistols. Also, since Boba was aged naturally, he had more time to develop his own unique personality.

[turtle]

Yoda went on a self imposed exile cause he knew that the jedi were being hunted and killed. More then that hunted by one who knew the way the Jedi thought, their philosphies and how they would react. If he had tried to help as EM mentioned Palpatine would've figured it out and the hunt for Yoda probably would've become a priority over all other jedi.

 

You ask why he didn't train more jedi instead of going into hiding. I'm not sure that would've made much of a difference. By training more jedi all yoda would've been doing is giving Vader and Palpatine more Jedi to hunt and kill. More then that in training them unless you were constantly in motion it probably would've eventually lead Vader and Palpatine to Yoda and his new trainee(s).

 

I don't know or care why Leia says she remember her mother. Although it might to some that conversation to me has little more meaning than Luke trying to find an easier way to tell Leia that they are brother and sister.

 

Boba Fett using a sawn off rifle as opposed to two blasters could show a changing of the times as much as anything else. When Jango hunted it was a time of relative peace (I know there was a war going on towards the end of his life but it was just warming up) and people probably weren't expecting to be hunted or shot at. Boba hunted during a time of open war and chances are many people were now more frequently wearing some sort of protective wear for safety. I haven't read many books but I'll ask this question anyway....do we know for sure that if he can't use two blasters or just that he chose not to?

[Eagle]

Why Yoda went into exile still isn´t logical for me. He managed once to infiltrate Coruscant and nearly finished Sidious. He could have fought him together with Obi Wan. Vader wouldn´t be that powerful at that time as he did become later. So if Yoda and Kenobi first killed Vader together, killing Sidious would have been also to manage. Isn´t it one of the main-duties of a Jedi to hunt down the Sith? So they´ve just decided to hide in their places on the a.. in the space, grow old and maybe senile (Yoda ) and getting weaker every day. While Sidious and Vader can build up a galaxy-wide empire without any disturbance.

 

Like turtle I´ve never read one of these novels and I´m not sure if I ever will. I´m looking for explanations of things that happened in the movies. So what belongs to Boba, I see that in the way the movies were made. You´ve got a character and you´ve got another one which is a clone of the first. So if the first one made other experiences than the second isn´t that important for the plot itself. If you got two characters who should be identical than they should act the same. And there are stories in the "Wookiepedia" which tell about clones who had got memories of Jango, which is unlogical too. Like just mentioned, you can´t clone memories. But if those people of Lucasfilm or whoever tells the story that way, Jango should have used a blaster-rifle too. And besides these two blaster-pistols he used in the movies just looked like, hm, uhm, girly girly!?

[Darth_Rob]

Vader wouldn´t be that powerful at that time as he did become later.

 

Actually I think Vader would have been quite a force to reckon with at that time. It was during this time where he was full of anger (at many things, including himself) and fear. He was extremely powerful in the dark side after his battle with Kenobi on lava world.

[ElvisMiggell]

I think it's a shame some of you don't read the books, i don't think i can emphasise enough how superior they are to the films.

[DarthTofu]

Some of the books are superior to the films- for instance, Revenge of the Sith. The Classics, though... Those I think are great and aren't going to be improved terrifically by novelization- they rely on visual effects in a lot of places.

 

Now the EU- that has some good, some bad, and some "WTF is wrong with you?" books. (Lack of continuity annoys me, as well as how it compounds when one author has a lack of continuity with another who had a lack of continuity with another... Such as Star by Star with Dark Journey with Destiny's Way so far as squadrons and Dovin Basals are concerned)

[Jahled]

I think it's a shame some of you don't read the books, i don't think i can emphasise enough how superior they are to the films.

 

The other way round for me. My experience of anything other than the movies tends to turn me off Star Wars, though some of the antics of the prequels pushed me dangerously close (supersonic Jedi etc).

 

Darksaber got thrown into the Mediterranean from a boat in Spain, Ironfist abandoned on a tube train half way through. Then there's the completely daft themes that echo as 'cannon' throughout the expanded universe, like rebel fighter superiority when in both films and the original novelization they are described as 'antiques,' in comparison to their Imperial counterparts. That and forcestorms devouring twelve mile long spaceships, galaxy guns, suncrushers, fleets of Star Destroyers shoved through hyperspace by the combined efforts of teenage Jedis, etc. Nah.

 

I'll stick with the movies for my enjoyment of Star Wars and forgive George Lucas for the occasional inconsistency.

[Lord_La_forge]

I think it's a shame some of you don't read the books, i don't think i can emphasise enough how superior they are to the films.

 

The other way round for me. My experience of anything other than the movies tends to turn me off Star Wars, though some of the antics of the prequels pushed me dangerously close (supersonic Jedi etc).

 

Darksaber got thrown into the Mediterranean from a boat in Spain, Ironfist abandoned on a tube train half way through. Then there's the completely daft themes that echo as 'cannon' throughout the expanded universe, like rebel fighter superiority when in both films and the original novelization they are described as 'antiques,' in comparison to their Imperial counterparts. That and forcestorms devouring twelve mile long spaceships, galaxy guns, suncrushers, fleets of Star Destroyers shoved through hyperspace by the combined efforts of teenage Jedis, etc. Nah.

 

I'll stick with the movies for my enjoyment of Star Wars and forgive George Lucas for the occasional inconsistency.

 

I've read the Zahn books and the New Hope. I don't see why they should be better then the movies. The Thrawn trilogy is really great, but only because we already have the "images" in our head, which we got from the movies.

It's pretty clear to me, that SW itself has a movie experience. GL's world needs to be visualized with all it's stuff in it. Even these 3 new movies he made are actually forming the whole star wars galaxy. As for the "bugs" like Leia knew her mother and such... I think they are simple little mistakes, that only we (hc swr fans) could spot or even be insulted by them.

[Lord_La_forge]

I think it's a shame some of you don't read the books, i don't think i can emphasise enough how superior they are to the films.

 

The other way round for me. My experience of anything other than the movies tends to turn me off Star Wars, though some of the antics of the prequels pushed me dangerously close (supersonic Jedi etc).

 

Darksaber got thrown into the Mediterranean from a boat in Spain, Ironfist abandoned on a tube train half way through. Then there's the completely daft themes that echo as 'cannon' throughout the expanded universe, like rebel fighter superiority when in both films and the original novelization they are described as 'antiques,' in comparison to their Imperial counterparts. That and forcestorms devouring twelve mile long spaceships, galaxy guns, suncrushers, fleets of Star Destroyers shoved through hyperspace by the combined efforts of teenage Jedis, etc. Nah.

 

I'll stick with the movies for my enjoyment of Star Wars and forgive George Lucas for the occasional inconsistency.

 

I've read the Zahn books and the New Hope. I don't see why they should be better then the movies. The Thrawn trilogy is really great, but only because we already have the "images" in our head, which we got from the movies.

It's pretty clear to me, that SW itself has a movie experience. GL's world needs to be visualized with all it's stuff in it. Even these 3 new (not that good) movies he made are actually forming the whole star wars galaxy. As for the "bugs" like Leia knew her mother and such... I think they are simple little mistakes, that only we (hc swr fans) could spot or even be insulted by them.

[JediHunter]

My experience of anything other than the movies tends to turn me off Star Wars, though some of the antics of the prequels pushed me dangerously close (supersonic Jedi etc).

 

Yea Jahled.. I'm with you on that.. I got real pissed seeing that.. it made me wonder why the hell it was never used before and why the hell didnt Obi-Wan use it when trying to get to Qui Gon and Darth Maul.. instead of getting trapped in that red field thing... that led to his masters death.. utterly convenient.. anyways.. i wont get started...

 

 

Why Yoda went into exile still isn´t logical for me. He managed once to infiltrate Coruscant and nearly finished Sidious. He could have fought him together with Obi Wan.

 

But think about it this way Eagle... if they both went back and perhaps were killed?... then Luke and Leia would have NO chance instead of SOME chance... and I think Yoda knew this.. if Obi-Wan and Yoda had been killed, Luke would have never become a Jedi.. and all would have been lost... I think it was preservation since defeat was a possibility..

[DarthTex]

While Jango used to fight with two Blaster-Pistols, Boba prefers to use a sawn-off Blaster-Rifle. Maybe it was more common to fight with pistols in the days of the old republic. But if you have got genes of a gunslinger than you would use that too.

Well, I think others pretty well covered them all, but I would like to add ... gunslinging YEE HAW! Have you ever seen the movie Quigley Down Under? There's a good line at the end of the movie, I think it would apply here nicely

[Eagle]

No, Tex, unfortunately I allways missed that movie when it was on TV, but I got to watch it now after you´ve mentioned that.

 

Another thing which isn´t that logical is why just Threepio got a mindwipe while Artoo didn´t. Allthough an astrodroid isn´t able to talk to humans without any help from translation-computers or Protocoldroids, there might be still a danger that somebody was aware of where this droid came from and to whom it belonged. Or it could´ve just told it to Threepio in a kind of smalltalk, "... and btw, Anakin Skywalker turned into Darth Vader and he has a son and a daughter, who is now under protection of Senator Organa. I know you don´t remember that, so don´t tell anybody you crappy piece of golden junk.":mrgreen:

 

...and, ahh, yeah, gunslinging! Why isn´t any whip used in Star Wars? Ahh, yes, they needed it for Indiana Jones. But I can remeber that there was a female character in a 80s comic, who fought against Luke with a whip. She was a cyborg and maybe even a sith. I can´t remember that anymore. Got to find that comic again. Maybe somebody else of our oldtimers can remember that.

[DarthTex]

No, Tex, unfortunately I allways missed that movie when it was on TV, but I got to watch it now after you´ve mentioned that.

Quote from Quigley Down Under:

 

Elliott Marston: [O'Flynn and Dobkin prepare Quigley for an old-fashioned duel] I seem to remember you're not too familiar with Colonel Colt's revolver, so this will be your first lesson. Don't worry. Mr Dobkin and Mr. O'Flynn will ensure that it's a fair contest.

Elliott Marston: [Marston starts walking backwards] I'll just back up a few paces... And to your left a bit, that's it... Now you're right in front of my old pistol target.

Elliott Marston: [Marston slips his coat back to reveal his holster] Some men are born in the wrong century. I think I was born on the wrong continent. Oh, by the way, you're fired

Matthew Quigley: This ain't Dodge City. And you ain't Bill Hickok.

Matthew Quigley: [Quigley shoots Dobkin, O'Flynn and Marston before they can even aim their guns, then walks up to a dying Marston] I said I never had much use for one. Never said I didn't know how to use it.

 

...and, ahh, yeah, gunslinging! Why isn´t any whip used in Star Wars? Ahh, yes, they needed it for Indiana Jones. But I can remeber that there was a female character in a 80s comic, who fought against Luke with a whip. She was a cyborg and maybe even a sith. I can´t remember that anymore. Got to find that comic again. Maybe somebody else of our oldtimers can remember that.

Actually that's too modern for me to remember

[Eagle]

Lol! That looks like a must to watch this movie.

[Jahled]

My experience of anything other than the movies tends to turn me off Star Wars, though some of the antics of the prequels pushed me dangerously close (supersonic Jedi etc).

 

Yea Jahled.. I'm with you on that.. I got real pissed seeing that.. it made me wonder why the hell it was never used before and why the hell didn't Obi-Wan use it when trying to get to Qui Gon and Darth Maul.. instead of getting trapped in that red field thing... that led to his masters death.. utterly convenient.. anyways.. i wont get started...

 

What I meant by Supersonic Jedi was what we were introduced in AotC and RotS to a concept of the Force that virtually went against the 'mysterious mysticism,' we were earlier introduced to in the original movies; hints and subtle displays of power, completely ruined by Yoda not least doing his John Woo bit in subsequent movies, which simply didn't look or feel right. That and Jedi apparently being Supermen/women capable of John Woo feats of agility and violence (which I personally can't stand in cinema). I got the impression the the whole concept of being a Jedi was much more spiritual and subtle than the apparently John Woo influenced exaggerated martial arts antics, from the original movies.

[Evaders99]

Well I believe that represents the different between the classic trilogy and the prequels. It was deliberate. Different times call for different measures.

Even the Jedi order was confused by the situation... becoming the soldiers for the Old Republic. There were many Jedi that were changed by the war. Yoda tried to beat Siduous with overwhelming force, but obviously the Sith were prepared.

 

This very much parellels Knights of the Old Republic... in a galactic conflict, where do the Jedi stand. Do they fight? Do they use diplomacy? Do they do nothing?

[Eagle]

What I meant by Supersonic Jedi was what we were introduced in AotC and RotS to a concept of the Force that virtually went against the 'mysterious mysticism,' we were earlier introduced to in the original movies; hints and subtle displays of power, completely ruined by Yoda not least doing his John Woo bit in subsequent movies, which simply didn't look or feel right. That and Jedi apparently being Supermen/women capable of John Woo feats of agility and violence (which I personally can't stand in cinema). I got the impression the the whole concept of being a Jedi was much more spiritual and subtle than the apparently John Woo influenced exaggerated martial arts antics, from the original movies.

I totally agree! Once you see him walking with his stick like an old man and the other second he makes high jumps and saltos. That wasn´t just unbelievable to watch it was also rediculous. All people laughed in the cinema as they saw that.

http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/4656/yodatag11rmhl7.gif

Thats just something Lucas liked to do because he was able by the help of ILMs computers. When I think back at the Yoda-Puppet in "TESB", that looked much realer than these animated ones. Allthough you are able to do some FX by the help of computers, you shouldn´t do that everytime, Mr. Lucas.

 

When I watch the lightsaber-fights in the old trilogy they lack the agility of course. But they are still very dramatic.

[Darth_Rob]

Exactly. I prefer the puppets, costumes, and models (for ships and vehicles) to the computer animation.

[Evaders99]

I'm sure Lucas would have used today's computer technology to make the classics if he had them. It was insistant on waiting until the technolgy caught up to do the prequels. Even look at the changes he did to the Special Edition versions.. and then to the DVD releases.

[ElvisMiggell]

GL sometimes seems a bit like a teenager let loose with all the latest gadgets. The problem is, i would say i can't fault his entusiasm, but his attitude to money makes me a cynic.

[JediHunter]

What I meant by Supersonic Jedi was what we were introduced in AotC and RotS to a concept of the Force that virtually went against the 'mysterious mysticism,' we were earlier introduced to in the original movies..

 

Ah k.. see.. a bit of a shocker to most of you maybe.. ive only seen AotC maybe twice and RotS once.. so i dont remember them all that well... but i have seen Phantom Menace quite a few times... and what i thought you were talking about.. as you could tell... was the super fast running Qui Gon and Obi Wan did at the beginning of the movie.. and never shown again.. even when the times called for it... but going on.. as Evaders mentioned it was a different time that called for different measures.. and GL backed it up with saying that its a younger time with the Jedi in their prime so we are going to see things we've never seen before.. such as spectacular duels... but whether or not any of that justifies the BS of Yoda walking feeble one minute and then all agile and matrix-esque the next is a different story... but ill leave that up to y'all.. i never found a justification though.. hehehe

[Eagle]

as Evaders mentioned it was a different time that called for different measures..

Not to think about Alec Guiness as Obi-Wan Kenobi doing saltos like his younger beeing or even Count Dooku did. I don´t think that people wanted to see such kind of martial arts-like lightsaber-fights. Todays movies are just cut so fast that you like to watch something which is a bit slower like the old lightsaber-duells between Vader and either Obi-Wan or Luke. And as a star wars-fan you expect such a kind of fight and not a Matrix-style.