not many of us old jedi left.

[Eagle]

Our government is discussing about using a filter-software especially to prevent kids of seeing things they shouldn´t. This will also affect us adults too. That´s all because of some things recently happened here, like school-massacres ala Littleton and strong Nazi-Parties and -Organisations in Eastern-Germany.

 

What about the question of Grand_Admiral_Thrawn about "A new hope" (I still call it "Star Wars" ). Never heard about it, but I can simply imagine why that may have been occured. There are some parallels about the empire and the Nazi-Regime. Soldiers of the Wehrmacht were also called "Sturmtruppen", which in english means "Stormtroopers"! Than there is an association about the Star Destroyers with german Battlecruisers like the Bismarck or the Scharnhorst. Because Lucas was inspired by their look and a SD just looks like one of these cruisers cut in half. And than of course the green uniforms of the imperial officers, which look like german uniforms of WWII.

[Mad78]

Well you can say that the Empire looks alot like (if not totally) like the Nazi regime. In the way it rose to power.

[JediHunter]

There are Nazi organizations here in the U.S. too but i dont think thats because of the internet.. i think it a little strong to prevent all access to anything like that for anyone.. but then again it was a pretty crazy regime.. anyways.. isnt there a quote something along the lines of "If one does not learn from the past, then he is condemned to repeat it." .. or something... i think its a wise thing the German government is doing, but also i think it possible to go overboard... is WWII history at least still taught?

[SOCL]

There are Nazi organizations here in the U.S. too but i dont think thats because of the internet.. i think it a little strong to prevent all access to anything like that for anyone.. but then again it was a pretty crazy regime.. anyways.. isnt there a quote something along the lines of "If one does not learn from the past, then he is condemned to repeat it." .. or something... i think its a wise thing the German government is doing, but also i think it possible to go overboard... is WWII history at least still taught?

I believe an appropriate comparison for those of us in the United States is:

-Are we taught of the massacre of Native Americans by European colonists? Or American forces following the American Revolution?

-Are we taught of the invasion of Mexico we committed before World War I?

These sort of things are known, but hardly understood and rarely taught. It's not America's most shining moment, to say the least, so I imagine the German and French governments take a similar stance in that regard when it comes to the Second World War.

[Eagle]

There are Nazi organizations here in the U.S. too but i dont think thats because of the internet.. i think it a little strong to prevent all access to anything like that for anyone..

They even want to completely forbid so called "killergames". That means any killing action against humans or humanlike beings in a computergame shall be forbidden. Because some of those teenagers who ran amok in their schools played Counterstrike or Doom. That means that it would be forbidden to buy, sell or even produce such kind of games in germany.

 

is WWII history at least still taught?

Back in the days when I´ve attended school, yes. I hope/guess so that it´s still taught in school.

 

Well you can say that the Empire looks alot like (if not totally) like the Nazi regime. In the way it rose to power.

Yes and the rise of Palpatine for more power in Episode II reminds me a little on the "Patriot Act". Maybe Lucas had that in mind. Would be interesting to know what he´s thinking about todays politics.

[Jahled]

Our government is discussing about using a filter-software especially to prevent kids of seeing things they shouldn´t. This will also affect us adults too. That´s all because of some things recently happened here, like school-massacres ala Littleton and strong Nazi-Parties and -Organisations in Eastern-Germany.

 

Which is the day freedom dies.

 

I detest what the Nazi's eventually got upto like any other normal human being, but where has it begun or end? Sure far-right racsist spackoids may be a rising problem in Germany not least, but like any Democracy, simply freedom of expression in action. Whilst I regard it as slightly retarded as a mode of political belief, it's no more retarded as people who celebrate Stalinism, Maoism, or the currant religious lunatics; the latter of which are almost completely overcast in the shadow of Islam at the moment.

 

Stalin and his ideology killed about twice as many people than Hitler, and had a profound contempt of his own people's lives. Simple look at his pre-1942 campaign in Finland; following a systematic cull of quality military officers he deployed crap soldiers from the south of Russia, completely inexperienced in winter warfare, the result of which was about 100,000 Russian deaths to about 20,00 Finns. The fiasco , many military historians argue, prompted Hitler to launch his invasion on the eastern front given the evidence of military incompetence. That the Nazi's got that completely wrong as well is further evidence of how not to run a military machine with a governance of fear, where commanders are afraid to act independently, or act on instinct or initiative. Hitler destroyed this capability in his army. Stalin countered it by sacrificing millions of soldiers and civilians with complete ruthlessness.

 

Both Stalin and Hitler, like Pol Pot, obviously simply hated human life.

 

So where do you draw the line to outlaw and ban in public? People waving the Nazi flag or some communist twat waving their's, they are equally representative of utter folly, genocide, and extreme evil. Both were unfortunate accidents of history and circumstance.

 

So will the German government be outlawing any symbols to Communism?

 

It all seems slightly stupid to me, what next? Online references to Capitalism? Only takes two or three seconds to mull..

[Darth_Officer]

it's too bad that the nazi legacy tainted the best military machine ever.

 

the Wehrmacht retreating to protect german homeland fought with inspiration. the german commanders were the most experienced tactical officers in the world at the time.

 

in the Wehrmacht was a small core of hardened Wehrmacht and waffen ss elites. as such, even in the face of full retreat were able to regroup and launch some of the most vicious and devastating counter attacks. when the marines learned there were waffen ss or ss bodyguard adolph hilter units around they would crap their knickers.

 

can't you be a little proud of that?????

[Verdex]

First of all let me say a big thanx to Officer for even changing the avatar: Thank you!

 

Then let me repeat myself: All 'easy' answers on this topic are often at best short-sighted. Although I have to say Eagle is doing a very fine job here

 

And, yes, there is a very similiar discussion about the difference of the Wehrmacht and the SS here in Germany. A few years agao, there was an exhibition about the Wehrmacht, approaching it as a more or less regular army. There was a huge outcry at first, but it set in motion exactly that discussion. And it sparked some healing thoughts, I guess, similar to the questions you guys have asked here.

 

And before it sounds too bad: The general approach towards the "Third Reich" has gotten less paranoid in the last years. Voices of rage e.g. because there is a Nazi-flag in the first "Indiana Jones" movie (and Hitler himself in the third) have gotten fewer and fewer.

In the seventies, "Kiss" almost got banned from playing in Germany because the two 's' in their bands name looked like the old SS-sign. I don't think that would even being suggested today.

 

Two generations after WWII, Germany is on a good way, I assume. But just keep in mind that the Nazi-regime was probably much more of a trauma than Vietnam was for the US. And as the recent Iraq-crisis shows, even that is still an issue, isn't it...

 

Btw, today there is a small march of idiots (aka neo-Nazis) in my hometown. They are allowed to do that and are even protected by the law of free speech. No-one is happen with the event - but I think it shows (even though in an extreme way) that free speech is far from over in Germany

[Eagle]

Eagle wrote:

Our government is discussing about using a filter-software especially to prevent kids of seeing things they shouldn´t. This will also affect us adults too. Confused That´s all because of some things recently happened here, like school-massacres ala Littleton and strong Nazi-Parties and -Organisations in Eastern-Germany.

 

 

Which is the day freedom dies.

It´s just because of some much bigger problems we have here like unemployment, health-enssurance and stuff for which our government hasn´t got any solutions yet, they tend to focus on much more lesser problems to ensure the people that they still do something. Off course it´s another lack of freedom.

 

So will the German government be outlawing any symbols to Communism?

No, they won´t. But that would be something russia had to do!

 

can't you be a little proud of that?????

No! Proud is the wrong word for that. I have respect for that, yes, but not proud!

 

Although I have to say Eagle is doing a very fine job here

Thanks! I give that back to you!

 

Btw, today there is a small march of idiots (aka neo-Nazis) in my hometown. They are allowed to do that and are even protected by the law of free speech. No-one is happen with the event - but I think it shows (even though in an extreme way) that free speech is far from over in Germany

Some radical groups like the Nazis or religious fundamentalists are quite aware of our freedom here and they use this in any way, allthough they want to fight against it.

 

And a big thanks to Darth_Officer from my side too for changing his avatar!

 

I´ve suggested him to use a pic of Rommel, who was in the Wehrmacht, a great strategist and had a leading role in the german resistance against Hitler. He was also involved in the attempt to Hitler. So if he likes to take an avatar especially of WWII, than this may be a good choice.

[ElvisMiggell]

*wanders in, twiddles thumbs, looks around*

 

Um... hey guys.

[Eagle]

Greetings!

[tacoJoemeru]

ZOMFG! its an oldie! Welcome back!

[DarthTofu]

*wanders in, twiddles thumbs, looks around*

 

Um... hey guys.

 

Didn't he come back a couple of months ago and then disappear about two days later? Right after he finished saying "I'd like to try to be an active part of this community," or something to that extent...

 

Welcome back again, Elvis. We know you never died.

[Verdex]

can't you be a little proud of that?????

 

Not really (even though I understand your point, btw) - just think twice:

 

If these guys would have been successful, one of their most prominent beliefs would have been that the country is first, the individual only second. The individual has to serve the country.

 

Now, can you imagine what they would have done to you if they found out how much time you - well, all of us - have wasted playing "Rebellion" - time you could have spent serving your country...?

[PsychoInfiltrator]

...especially as the Rebellion....

[SOCL]

*wanders in, twiddles thumbs, looks around*

 

Um... hey guys.

Speak of the devil, why it isn't the King himself! Good to see you, though I have this funny feeling you'll disappear again, akin Trej and Scath. Hope to see you around more often, mate!!

[Darth_Officer]

king, look i so old to young eyes???

yes i do. no more training do you require. already have that which you need.

 

elvis, do you still have your rebellion game? what have you been doing with all your free time while in jabba's dungeon.

 

when did you get released from the carbonite??

 

just curious.

[Jahled]

when did you get released from the carbonite??

 

just curious.

 

Mike get's released from Carbonite once a year. It takes him eleven months to recover hibernation sickness and a further three weeks to remember how to type.

 

It then takes him six days to remember what the internet is. Nice to see him around though!

[ElvisMiggell]

Ah Jahled, you know me so well... but actually it's four day!

 

Um, yeah, i know i keep dissapearing, but i'm just so damned busy all the time, and the girlfriend isn't a fan of the geekery, i'll learn her damnit!

[Zer_Teron]

 

Stalin and his ideology killed about twice as many people than Hitler, and had a profound contempt of his own people's lives. Simple look at his pre-1942 campaign in Finland; following a systematic cull of quality military officers he deployed crap soldiers from the south of Russia, completely inexperienced in winter warfare, the result of which was about 100,000 Russian deaths to about 20,00 Finns. The fiasco , many military historians argue, prompted Hitler to launch his invasion on the eastern front given the evidence of military incompetence. That the Nazi's got that completely wrong as well is further evidence of how not to run a military machine with a governance of fear, where commanders are afraid to act independently, or act on instinct or initiative. Hitler destroyed this capability in his army. Stalin countered it by sacrificing millions of soldiers and civilians with complete ruthlessness.

 

Both Stalin and Hitler, like Pol Pot, obviously simply hated human life.

 

So where do you draw the line to outlaw and ban in public? People waving the Nazi flag or some communist twat waving their's, they are equally representative of utter folly, genocide, and extreme evil. Both were unfortunate accidents of history and circumstance.

 

So will the German government be outlawing any symbols to Communism?

 

Don't forget Stalin's tactic of taking civilians from nearby towns and forcing them to step over minefields at gunpoint.

[DarthTofu]

Ah Jahled, you know me so well... but actually it's four day!

 

Um, yeah, i know i keep dissapearing, but i'm just so damned busy all the time, and the girlfriend isn't a fan of the geekery, i'll learn her damnit!

 

Damn straight, Elvis! Backhand those who aren't as dorky as us! Beat them to a pulp!

 

... Erm, wait, I didn't say that... I said... Umm, something about loving your neighbor... And crap like that... *Glances around shiftily*

[Mitth_raw_nuruodo]

Don't forget Stalin's tactic of taking civilians from nearby towns and forcing them to step over minefields at gunpoint.

I would've taken the bullet.

 

Welcome back, Elvis.

[BadSamaritan]

I am still around, if anyone cares...

[DarthTofu]

We do care, BS. We just don't show it in any way, shape, or form that you or any other life form from this planet can recognize. It helps that half of us aren't from Earth in the first place...

 

*Wanders off to his TARDIS*

[Krytos]

I am still around, if anyone cares...

 

*runs and gives BS a hug!* We all love you! *runs away into the shadows before he gets hit*