Books

[Mitth_raw_nuruodo]

I finished The Dark Tower today. I still recommend that entire series to any and all readers, especially King fans.

 

@Rob: You mentioned discussing the ending. What did you think about it?

[Darth_Rob]

The following is a synopsis of Stephen King's The Dark Tower. Thus, it includes mad spoilers on the final book of the great series. Read at your own risk.

 

I, for one, was actually disappointed. I mean, I started reading the series a long time ago. The first Stephen King book I got was The Wastelands (my parents got it for me at a garage sale), so I had to go back and buy the previous books to go in order. After Wizard's Glass, there was this huge lull of years, and I had thought that King had given up on ever finishing Roland's tale. But I was so moved by the series that I gobbled up King's other works.

 

So anyways, when Wolves of the Callah came out, I said "holy crud, he's back" and read it up. Shortly after, he released the last two. By this time I had of course re-read the entire series (in order to remember the story from oh so long ago), and I was sooo nervous reading The Dark Tower. I mean, I knew he was gonna get there. I just didn't know what was in store. I had several wild and crazy ideas. I was so excited I finished the book in 3-4 days or so. Anywho, I remember reading the chapter where he finally enters the Tower. He walks around and re-experiences his life. I was fine with that, it was cool and understandable that this oh-so-great Dark Tower would have the ability to replay his life before his eyes. Then, of course, he gets to the end, and is unceremoniously dumped outside, back to the beginning of the story. I couldn't believe that that was the ending that Roland had drawn for himself.

 

I liked Susanna and Eddie's ending, how the three of them wound up chilling in the same dimension/reality. But I was deeply upset with Roland's lot in life. I mean, not for nothing, but this seven-story saga, spanning years and years and years in King's writing career (the first book was released in 1982- the year I was born, and the final book was just finished in 2004), ends up being a retelling of a story that has apparently happened over and over and over again, and will continue happening.

 

So why does Roland suffer this fate? Is it because he lived such a horrible life, abusing everyone and anyone throughout his existence just to reach the Tower? Will he have to keep enduring this struggle until he wises up and realizes he has to get there without sacrificing the well-being of his friends? What do you think, Mitth?

[Mitth_raw_nuruodo]

Dark Tower Discussion to follow, contains spoilers, read at own risk: Rob, Roland's got Eld's Horn now. It will happen this one last time. Never again. In all fairness to King, he warned you not to read what happened in the Tower.

 

I was upset with the ending at first. After I kept reading I decided that it was the best ending for it. In all his "dreams" he finds the Unfound Door, it changes to Found, and he starts over because he hasn't learned hi lesson yet! If you don't learn from your mistakes, you are destined to repeat them. I'm guessing/assuming that in all the previous times he lived those years he never really cared about those he brought along with him. This time he warmed up, and now, after all those practices, here is his performance: opening and closing nights rolled into one.

 

There was more I had intended on saying, but I can't remember what anymore...

[Darth_Rob]

More on the Dark Tower...

 

Yeah, I remember him having a new artifact that he didn't start with the last time. But how do you know that because he has the horn that its gonna be the final adventure?

 

And I seriously doubt anyone heeded King's warning. I mean, how can ANYONE read though that great series, get to the Tower, read his message, and be like "oh, I don't want to know what King intended to happen, I'll just make up my own ending"?

[Mitth_raw_nuruodo]

More Dark Tower:

This is your promise that things may be different, Roland--that there may yet be rest. Even salvation.

A pause, and then:

If you stand. If you are true.

I'm guessing you can't/don't remember that.

Edited July 8, 2007 by Mitth_raw_nuruodo

[Evaders99]

The Unifying Force did seem a little forced. There were certain stories that needed to be concluded, but I felt that The Final Prophecy built up something that never got realized. It wasn't particularly bad book, but it left some stuff that could have been resolved. They probably figured they would leave it for the next books.. Dark Nest and then Legacy.

[SOCL]

@Tofu, you couldn't be more right--it does feel forced, which is likely why I'm actually having such a hard time getting into it. Whereas before I read one novel in two days or so, The Unifying Force has taken me four days so far, and I'm only on page 356... Truth be told, it feels as though the Yuuzhan Vong War and the general story arc of the entire NJO was forced to close, not actually brought down. The sudden retreat from Mon Calamari to Coruscant and the ensuing battle...well, it feels as though the authors had written themselves into a corner and, like The Last Command, they had to force the ending, so it doesn't feel natural in any way. Quite unfortunate. I believe the The Unifying Force should have been a trilogy or so of novels wrapping up the end, not this sudden cliff.

 

And I haven't even finished it yet.

[DarthTofu]

Have you gotten to the part where it explains why the Vong have no Force presence yet? If you have, then you get to read the black text!

 

The Force was stripped from them? Oh, come on! That's just retarded! Stripped from them? STRIPPED FROM THEM?!? Everyone else alludes that there's more to the Force than the Jedi know, that the Vong just exist in a differant spectrum, like ultraviolate light to the human eye, and you go off and says that they were stripped of the Force?!? The Force is life. Without the Force, there is no life! Having it stripped from you and surviving is just... Argh! *Headdesk* I hated that so passionately....

 

One thing that I will say I liked about Unifying Force was that J.L. used other people's characters in his books. Too many other authors will only mention them- person X from the novel before this one walked through the door and then left. Jagged Fel is probably the only exception to that one.

 

J.L. was good enough to give the characters more than three-sentance cameos, and that helped a lot for the overall novel.

[SOCL]

Sadly, because of sites like this one, I already knew essentially everything that was going to happen in the NJO, deaths and the aforementioned Vong/Force issue included, I simply didn't know how it happened.

 

 

SPOILERS follow:

 

I must say, I was thoroughly disappointed by the way Shimrra died--very suddenly and anticlimactic, as well as Onimi's brief reign as the undisguised Supreme Overlord, not to mention his own sudden and somewhat let-down of a death. In any event, the novel was good, but not that good. The ending to the war I felt was far too rushed and brought the Yuuzhan Vong history to a rather strange conclusion with the sudden acceptance, but then again, real-world history has shown that strange things happen, so I'm not adverse to accept these things, Vong/Force issues included. It's not the way I would have done it, but then, I'm not the author, nor do I work for Lucasfilm or Del Rey. They do it their way and I'm willing to go with it because, fact of the matter is, I can't change it. My final verdict on The Unifying Force: 3.5 out of 5 stars. Better than an average Star Wars novel (3), but not that much better.

 

Alright, enough rant.

 

Now I can breathe deep with relief (heh, a rhyme) for I have at long last COMPLETED THE NEW JEDI ORDER! A task six years in the making!

 

WOO YAY!

 

 

So, what to read next? I'm considering blazing on, forward in Star Wars history to the Dark Next Crisis, but all this talk of Zonama Sekot and such had me curious to read Rogue Planet, however; I get the impression Rogue Planet doesn't so much focus on Zonama Sekot, the Far Outsiders (Yuuzhan Vong), and Vergere as it does vaguely allude to the NJO in the midst of a completely separate story. For those of you who have read Rogue Planet, and without spoiling it for me (without proper warning), is this a correct assessment, or does the novel warrant a reading?

 

In any event, my "default setting", if you will, is set to move on to The Joiner King (and I'm looking forward to it!), but I figured Rogue Planet is, at least by my understanding, significantly tied to the NJO. In many ways, reading it would round out all of the parts of the NJO (save the short stories Emissary of the Void, The Apprentice, and Or Die Trying, none of which actually catch my attention), at least the novel/published portions. Reading Rogue Planet would give me a breather before I dive into the Dark Nest trilogy, which inherently sets the stage for the Legacy of the Force novels. Even so, I'm at something a cross-roads here and would like some feedback/opinions on how perhaps to proceed.

 

 

Some other Star Wars book news:

The official character (Dramatis Personae) list for the upcoming Death Star novel was released. On the list, and this will certainly amuse Paul as much as did me, is a certain copper-red-haired Admiral we all love. Highlight further if you just can't wait! DAALA!

Edited July 9, 2007 by SOCL

[tacoJoemeru]

Well... If your looking forward to the next trilogy.... Don't highlight this.....

 

Them, and their author, are by far, the worst.... In my own opinion, of course...

 

I own all three.... But, I bought them just to keep up on the story....

 

However, I did just buy four good books. The Krytos Trap, Solo Command, Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader, and Rebel Stand.

[Darth_Rob]

More Dark Tower:

This is your promise that things may be different' date=' Roland--that there may yet be rest. Even salvation.[/i']

A pause, and then:

If you stand. If you are true.

I'm guessing you can't/don't remember that.

 

The thing is that that does not imply that this next round will be the final one. At the very end, after Roland is back to square one and he realizes he has to live it all over again, he begins to forget. Thus, within a few moments he would forget the warning, and would not do much differently. That's my thoughts.

[DarthTofu]

From what I've heard, the Dark Nest trilogy is not enjoyable. BadSamaritan read it and complained the whole way through of the random new material that was suddenly canon, as well as reinterpretations of previous canon and giving some character dissproportionate amounts of power.

 

I skipped 'em and broused the wookiepedia articles on all persons involved, so I now know pretty much what happened, and I'm not sorry that I skipped it.

 

As for Rogue Planet: It was tied into the Vong war as an afterthought according to the interview at the end of my copy of Unifying Force. Vergere is never mentioned by name except as a Jedi who dissapeared. She was retconned as that Jedi during the Vong war.

 

I read some of it back when it first came out, and even then I felt it was rather poor writing.

[SOCL]

Yeah, that's the same impression I got (about Rogue Planet) and I've heard the same sort of negative stuff about The Joiner King. Still, I'm going to go ahead with Dark Nest. I'm interested to see how the Chiss figure into all of this. I'm already 40 or so pages in, but it's not really all that well written--so far, at least. I'm trying to stay optimistic. It's only three books, then it's on to Betrayal!

 

By the way, is anyone else excited about Luke Skywalker and the Shadows of Mindor? (2008 release)

[tacoJoemeru]

Yep, sounds good.... But its a year away...

 

I got the Darth Bane book when it hit paper back, it was a good five bucks.

[Evaders99]

Dark Nest just seems to be the setup for Legacy. I think its worth reading, at least to give you a better notion when "stuff-hits-the-fan" later on.

[Mitth_raw_nuruodo]

@Rob: You make a good point. My thought is, If not this time, then soon.

 

Dark Nest just seems to be the setup for Legacy. I think its worth reading, at least to give you a better notion when "stuff-hits-the-fan" later on.

I'll keep that in mind next time I'm in a book store w/ money to spend.

[JediHunter]

So ok, kinda carrying on from my movie theater post... and i'm not trying to be offensive here.. im really curious... what is the appeal of the Harry Potter books? I don't get it. I mean I find them to be children's books.. why does everyone like them so much? As I said in the movie thread, I understand the appeal of the movie.. but not the book. With a movie its nice to have your mind numbed (so to speak) and just relax and take in a cool movie with nice action scenes or fantastical creatures etc... but a book that you have to concentrate and sit down and take your time to read word by word.... just seems to me can be spent better on more interesting books... i know its me.. and my stupid opinion.. so.. why am I wrong?... anyone?

[SOCL]

I'm with you, JH. Rather like the Young Jedi Knights books. I constantly had to remind myself I wanted to understand Jacen, Jaina, Lowie, and Tenel Ka better for when I read the NJO, Dark Nest, and beyond... Even so, it was horrendous reading books intended for children half my age.

[Jahled]

Even so, it was horrendous reading books intended for children half my age.

 

Emm.. that actually sounds like the entire expanded universe..

 

*flees*

[SOCL]

Even so, it was horrendous reading books intended for children half my age.

 

Emm.. that actually sounds like the entire expanded universe..

 

*flees*

May not the entire expanded universe, but great swaths of it.

[Evaders99]

This is probably the most honest criticism of NJO I've seen .. (from a person that actually has read the books and not just nagging at simple stuff like who-dies, Vong are cliche, etc)

 

http://www.theforce.net/books/story/Looking_Back_And_Thinking_Forward_107088.asp

 

What are your thoughts? Anything you guys want to see from Del Ray?

(I personally like Tor as well, many good authors like Orson Scott Card)

[Darth_Rob]

Has anyone ever read the series Riverworld? I was looking at it on wikipedia and it sounds interesting.

[DarthTofu]

My opinion of that guy is that he could stand to expand his mind: I think that, above all, the New Jedi Order was different than what we were used to, but not necessarily bad. The fact that he considers Tatooine Ghost to be one of his favorite novels eats at me, even though I haven't read it, because it's by Troy Dennings (*Hatred*).

 

All sorts of NJO & LotF spoilers will follow, so read at your own risk. I'm not blacking it because most of us have read the full series, now.

 

When Anakin died I certainly was upset and felt a sort of sense of "No! He has to come back somehow!" but that's ultimately realism. People die in wars, and ultimately Anakin, the warrior, for lack of a better term, of the Solo children, was at the most risk of dying- if he lived, everybody was ultimately safe. Killing off characters like that was part of what broke that sense of whimsy in NJO, and that really helped make it better for me.

 

He complains about Jacen being the new hero, but I think that he was ultimately the right hero for the right crisis; the Yuuzhan Vong weren't evil, they were just obsessed with their mythology of war and conquest and were out on a religious crusade. Jacen can recognize that, and ultimately he helps to take the galaxy back to a state of peace through peace with the Yuuzhan Vong, and finds it in himself to essentially "Fight without fighting"- Converting the poisons Onimi (sp?) floods him with to nothing.

 

As for Zonoma Sekot: Okay, that one I can't argue with him on- that was weak, as was just kicking the Yuuzhan Vong out. I really didn't care for that at all.

 

So far one of the strong points of Legacy of the Force has been that tie-in with the prequels. There's a perverse sense of it being mirrored, but in a fully new way. As Luke puts it in one of the novels, Jacen isn't turning to the dark side because he's selfish, but because he's selfless. The huge moral grey areas throughout let you know just how hard this is for the characters as they have to wonder who to support in a war that ultimately seems to be between good guys with bad guys intermixed.

 

Usually I'd agree with him that these novels might work best as either three separate trilogies or one author's full work, but in this case each one brings something new to the table that balances the books as you go; Allston has his great characters development that gets into every one's head, Traviss has her political experience to show how politics affect everything, and Dennings has that sense of despair to add, such as when he made us think he was going to make the Millennium Falcon blow up in Tempest. He was more bearable for that novel, at least, and he only has two more that he gets to write, thank goodness!

 

Ultimately I like the new direction Del Ray went in. Do I disagree with a choice or two of theirs in authors? Oh, hell yes. If there had been a vote on them based on first drafts of their books I'd still be screaming, "No! Please, no! Please, dear FSM, no!" over one in particular, but I think that they've done a great job bringing new Star Wars to the world of the novels without making it the banal new super weapon of the week that Bantam suffered from.

[SOCL]

Not to call you out on it (and I didn't read past the spoiler warning because you mentioned LOTF), but, Tofu, isn't that "I hate Troy Denning, thus I won't read Tatooine Ghost" mentality a little close-minded? It's the same sort of behavior I see coming off of people who have never read the novels, even with the deaths of Chewie and Anakin aside; a total unwillingness to try. As someone who originally despised the NJO with a passion, I can say, once I actually read the series, I rather enjoyed! The fact that it was completely coordinated, down to the last character, really helped make sense of an increasingly chaotic galaxy, as we saw during the Bantam era of novels (what is dubbed in-universe as the "New Republic era"). There was saw because author going off in their own directions, sometimes just ignoring entire plot lines, characters, or anything else to pursue their own vision. With the aid of retcons, we now have a much clearer picture of how all those matters tie in to the great Star Wars universe, but the sort of direction Lucasfilm and Del Rey have taken with the NJO and subsequent, I believe it makes everything much more bearable, and thoroughly enjoyable. Your favorite character won't simply disappear from novel to novel just cause the next author doesn't like him, and plots-lines will be resolved. Take the Dark Nest trilogy and Rayner Thul's disappearance in Star by Star as a perfect example!

 

I rather applaud Del Rey for undertaking what is quite possibly one of the most, if not the most difficult franchise series in all of bookdom! ( ) If Del Rey were to be handed the contract again, I would actually be quite pleased, but it seems likely they won't, if only to give someone else a try, and to appease those disgruntled fans who shied away from the novels just because of the NJO. In time, most of them, I believe will come around, albeit a little delayed. I can't be sure I would want to see Wizards of the Coast get the contract, even if the Ye Olde RPG books were much fun. Simply put, I'm not sure I would want Star Wars to be associated with the mega-fantasy elements of Dragonlance and Forgotten Realms. The mega-fantasy bit gave an interesting take on Star Wars in Vector Prime with R.A. Salvatore, but it was simply not an enjoyable novel--and my opinion has nothing to do with Chewie's death because I didn't mind that at all, and actually thought it rather fitting.

 

TOR and Baen, at least I believe, are far Star Wars-ish that Wizards of the Coast. Granted, elementally, Star Wars is more parts fantasy than fiction, but it certainly isn't Frodo Baggins and Gandalf fantasy. Then again, it's also not Starship Troopers and War of the Worlds sci-fi either. I suppose the attraction of the Star Wars publishing line being associated with a classic part-SciFi, part-fantasy titles like Dune, and authors like Kevin J. Anderson and Aaron Allston might taint my view some, but it simply seems like a more Star Wars-y atmosphere than goblins, trolls, wizards, dragons, and elves. But then, I enjoy old-school, down-to-earth sci-fi like Heinlein much more than I do mega-fantasy, so...

[DarthTofu]

Damn you and your logic, SOCL. Now I have to go read Tatooine Ghost just to appease the voices in my head... You bastard.

 

Now, as you said before, not to argue with you, but I think there were some character dropping issues. Sometimes a character wouldn't have an explicit removal from the plot- take Droma for instance. He was very active in Agents of Chaos, but come Balance Point he completely disappeared, having nothing to his credit but Han saying something to the extent of "Fine!" and walking away until the Force Heretic books. I personally quite liked Droma, and was sad to see him written out in such a way.

 

The same thing goes for Corran Horn. He was cameoed in Star by Star, Enemy Lines, and a few others, but ultimately he was only just barely present in them, whereas with Dark Tide he was a main player, as well as in Edge of Victory II and The Final Prophecy. That kind of nagged at me, as if the authors were afraid to touch the character for fear of messing with Michael A. Stackpole and Greg Keyes or something like that.

 

If anybody gets the contract besides Del Ray, I really want it to be Baen- that ought to ensure that Allston is still writing for Star Wars! Well, that and they have a lot of experienced SciFi writers on their team... Still, I very much like what Del Ray has done, and hope that they keep on doing it.