Star Wars Infinities

[UlicHorn]

So the other day I came across my old trades of Star Wars Infinites and I remembered how excited I was to read Empire and Jedi too which got me to thinking. What do you guys think would be some good changes they could've made in the prequel movies that could've made a good Infinities?

[Jahled]

So the other day I came across my old trades of Star Wars Infinites and I remembered how excited I was to read Empire and Jedi too which got me to thinking. What do you guys think would be some good changes they could've made in the prequel movies that could've made a good Infinities?

 

Goodish post. But: Well the first thing that's sort of in your face is in one of the Infinities comic books Yoda plunges a Death Star into Coruscant there-by killing billions of people, and dare i mention what would realy happen, the enitre planet... sooo, not so a wise Jedi Master concerned about life etc.

 

In general, my personal belief is that the various comic interpretations of the Star Wars saga are simply pathetic; from glory boy Rogue Squadron-kill-at every-panel-without-appropriate-losses, to the the shear grandiour of the crap that is Dark Empire...

 

Just my own own five pence...

[budious]

Star Wars should have never grown past the original trilogy, that was the only time I ever enjoyed or respected the storyline. The special edition followed by the prequel trilogy destroyed all former praise I had for it as a kid.

[Jahled]

Star Wars should have never grown past the original trilogy, that was the only time I ever enjoyed or respected the storyline.

 

The problem is that the expanded universe was allowed to grow so foolishly. A simple comment from Ben about a TIE fighter has made all Imperial starfighters by definition crap in the expanded universe, and for the crapest of logical reasons. Figure:

 

Yay squadron, you're of to face the mighty rogue squadron today, you've no shields, no hyperdrive, in fact no real estimatime of surviving, SO GOOD LUCK! Sort of works in the long run for a galactic empire.

[DarthTofu]

What, are you saying that TIEs should be the equivelant of X-wings in speed and have shields and a hyperdrive, Jahled? Personally I liked the Rogue squadron books/comics... But then, I am a Stackpole fanboy, so...yeah. Some stuff, like the protected characters whom you know for sure will survive, gets annoying, but they still have increadably abilities to portray the flying abilities of an ace pilot.

[budious]

My assumptions (as it appears on film) from the original trilogy are that the standard Tie Fighter, while unshielded, appeared to have great agility. An X-Wing is going to slaughter it on a head to head engagement, but once the fight gets close quarters, the advantage falls to the Ties which can out manuever the X-Wings in a dogfight. Therefore, Imperial mass production... low cost, large quantities, expect to take some losses in initial engagement, and ace pilots dogfight in close quarters.

[BrianLara]

budious im in chat room ready to go on that multiplayer. my PM's either havent been working or you havent been checking them.

 

lets go!

[DarthTofu]

Actually, now that I think about it, according to the movie one would think that niether was shielded seeing as many X-wings are blown up from a single shot or two.

[AdmiralToguroAni]

I think a lot of the EU stories, at least the ones I've read, are better than the movies. Well, the prequels and RotJ at least. I loved Dark Empire, as it expanded on Palpatine's character somewhat. My favorite Star Wars story, not counting ESB, is Shadows of the Empire. I loved every page of it.

 

Oh yeah, if any of you havent read it yet, I highly recommend the one-shot comic book "Star Wars: Purge." It explains how the whole Vader hunting down the Jedi thing got started, and is a really good story.

[BadSamaritan]

to the the shear grandiour of the crap that is Dark Empire...

 

The Darm Empire trilogy was one of the best parts of the EU. And it makes perfects sense thanks to George Lucas and his prequals. Only good this Lucas has done since the original trilogy.

[Jahled]

I'm actually of the belief that in the three prequals we get to see the 'evolution' of advanced fighter design, and it is skewed to prototype TIEs. Look at the fighters in RotS, especially in the opening battle. The clones are in what looks like prototype X-Wings, especially with the 'lock wings,' command, whilst our two Jedi are in unmistakable early TIEs; the wing design, and the front view port. This along with comments from Imperials in a New Hope, like 'they're nothing but antiques,' lends belief that in George Lucas's mind that the TIE was a far superior fighter.

 

You have to ignore the expanded universe, which GL has completely ignored, to see this though I guess...

[BadSamaritan]

Is some ways, the TIE is a far more advanced starfighter. It is faster, and far more manuverable, than many of the rebel starfighters, excluding the A-wing. And the TIE-Interceptor is faster and more manuverable than the A-wing (I think).

 

The probelm is, TIE fighters lack sheilds, which is there largest drawback. Because of this, TIE pilots rarely are able to live long enough to become the superior starfighter pilots the Empire thinks they are.

 

Also, when you look at the novels, movies, and comic books, how often to rebel starfighters get smacked by TIE laser cannons? If it weren't for sheilds, the rebellion would have had starfighter losses far worse than the empire did, because of the simple fact that TIE fighters are better fighters. Even the great Wedge Antilles would have fallen well before Endor.

 

Sadly, due to the fact that the Empire had to build such a massive amount of Starfighters to keep everyone under control, that putting sheilds on all of their TIE fighters would become a financial nightmare (This has been discussed here before.)

 

Also due to the financial strain of needing such a large starfighter force, TIE fighters lacked the armor of most rebel starfighters, so that even a glancing blow to a TIE from a laser cannon could prove disasterous. Yet another drawback to the TIE fighter.

 

Now, two TIE designs were tested, which eliminated all of these problems. The TIE-Advance, which Darth Vader flew in ANH, and the TIE-Defender, which is seen in the EU. But if you look at the EU, the mentioning of these starfighters is also normally followed by the mentioning that Imperial high command deemed them far to expensive for realistic production. It wasn't until after the peace was signed between the NR and the Empire that the TIE-Defender saw any serious production numbers, and the TIE-Advance never made it beyond the prototype stage.

 

(Jumping around a bit here)

 

Now, let's say the Empire did install sheilds on all of its' basic TIE0starfighters. Due due the frequency of Rebel starfighters being hit by TIE lasers, we already know TIE starfighters are better in two separtments, speed and manuverability. If they had sheilds, which would give TIE pilots a fair shot at surviving and becoming even better pilots than they already were. This gives them a severe edge over even the rebel A-wing. Now all the rebel starfighters have over the TIE is a hyperdrive, and torpedo/missile launchers.

 

You know, I think I am done.

[Darth_Rob]

I think one the the reasons the Empire had TIEs was that they were cheap. All of the Rebel starfighters were equipped with shields and a hyperdrive. But the TIEs had none of that. They were cheaper, and could be mass-produced. That was the advantage the Empire had- it outnumbered the Rebels in dogfights.

[AdmiralToguroAni]

Looking at the movies, I'm going to agree with Tofu that X-wings don't appear to have shields, or at least they have very weak ones that don't do anything. The EU did screw over TIEs, it seems.

 

Of course the EU also gave us Xizor, Mara Jade, Thrawn and Clone Palpy, so that makes up for it.

[DarthTofu]

Of course the EU also gave us Xizor, Mara Jade, Thrawn and Clone Palpy, so that makes up for it.

 

... Not in my opinion, in fact, far from it... *Zahn hatred boils forth*

[UlicHorn]

Geez, start a conversation about alternate history choices and I end up launching a full scale EU fight. Heh, I'm impressed.

[Underdog]

Its all about mentality Tie pilots believe shields are for cowards, and suicidal attacks are an honorable was to die. Remember there brainwashed just like storm troopers and to them the TIE is the top of the line for civilized modern space combat. Rebels can think is the difference and shields is what I would pick. It all depends on the pilot anyway skill, tactics, and training is what wins. Plus in A New Hope out of all the fighters that get killed by Ties there is only 1 the other 6 or 7 are killed by Vader in the Tie Advance and those are mostly old Y-wings anyway. And Wedge and Luke both take glancing shots from regular Ties.

[Evaders99]

I doubt it was suicidal attacks. You are talking about the Imperial Navy here, pilots would have been trained to use their great maneuverability to defeat enemy fighters. And they are designed to be used in a swarm of other TIEs, supported by a carrier or other base.

They just aren't designed to be one-man platforms like the Rebel fighters.

[Jahled]

Geez, start a conversation about alternate history choices and I end up launching a full scale EU fight. Heh, I'm impressed.

 

Our pleasure! I had something meaningful to say about you're original post, but have at this moment in time forgotten what it was. I will return when it returns...

[Underdog]

Ya but any swarm tactic usually results in massive casualties for the swarmers. Be it bees, Japanese, Russians, WWI, or Tie pilots. It may get the job done but just because it works does not make it superior.

 

TIE fighters were typically employed en masse to make up for their shortcomings. Speedy and maneuverable, these fighters are nonetheless fragile. Though hard to hit, even a glancing blow can destroy a TIE.

Though TIEs presented a formidable challenge to pirates and civilian craft, the skilled pilots of the Rebel Alliance made short work of them in combat. The Alliance workhorse, the T-65 X-wing starfighter, continually bested the TIE in numerous engagements. As the Galactic Civil War raged on, the standard TIE arsenal was supplemented with more advanced and specialized craft, such as the fearsome TIE interceptor and the dedicated TIE bomber

[DarthTofu]

Still, in a swarm situation a dupe fired torp can take out a couple of TIEs, in addition to screwing up some of their flight patterns enough that they crash. Huge chain reaction- I mean, you saw all the TIEs in ROTJ- only real way to get rid of that many of the things!

[zehnwaters]

I have Infinities for the Episodes II and III. I have one for Episode I, but I never fleshed it out. Be warned, however, they're practically books. Also I wrote them for the SW RPG so there is no real resolution...:

 

When a Confederacy terrorist blows up the Republic centers of power (ie the Senate Chambers and such), the Republic government falls apart. With out the strong leadership of Supreme Chancellor Palpatine the star systems quickly fall under the control of the fledgling Confederacy. In an attempt to keep the galaxy under control of a government based on morals the Jedi, along with the Atarian Rangers form a government called the Adari. Though the Jedi officially are "neutral" in the whole transaction.

 

With the government in shatters the few Senators who survived the bombing (ie, they were at least 5 miles away comfortable in their apartments) rally together and head up a new Government. Senior or influencial Senators comprise a sort of Governing Council while the other Senators retain their old roles. The Governing Council of the Adari consists of Council Member Padmé Amidala of Naboo, Council Member Bail Organa of Alderaan, Council Member Mon Mothma of Chandrila, Council Member Garm Bel Iblis of Corellia (who was on the verge of resigning in protestation of the Military Creation Act), Council Member Zikri Yab'ra of the Bothans, Council Member Bonmi-Ro Sen of the Cerean, Council Member Gol Viridux of the Duro, Council Member Oth Sult of the Kel Dor and Council Member Jela Tualin of the Twi-Lek.

 

But because of the gaping hole in a central governing power many factions spring up: The Corporate Sector, The Adari, the Confederacy, The Alliance of Nobles, and finally a loose alliance of outlaws.

 

People flee to the regions of space that are controlled by the powers they agree with most. The Jedi try with great effort to keep peace amoung the warring people and rescue Force-Sensitives from the other factions. Amid all of this strife is happiness. Anakin finds that Senator Amidala happened to have had a double in the Senate chambers when it exploded. They form the relationship that they did in the movie and are quickly, and quietly, married. Luke and Leia are born a year later but the happy couple is split up by an attack on Tatooine while Anakin was rescuing his mother. Each manages to save a child. Anakin takes Luke with him while Amidala takes Leia and Shmi with her.

 

Anakin is captured by the Confederacy and taken to Count Dooku. Anakin, despite being tortured, manages to hide Luke's Force-Potential until they can escape. He and his son roam the galaxy, looking for Amidala and Leia. Amidala however had made it back to the Republic and Leia was trained by the Jedi. Luke meanwhile was trained by Anakin.

 

Han, an orphan, ended up in basically the same profession and met Chewie when a Slaver tried to kill him. He saved the Wookies life and he vowed a Life-Debt. Mara was rescued from a horrible fate when Anakin saved her when her planet was under attack

 

Anakin and Padmé are seperated about five years. But once they were reunited Luke and Leia were both taken on as Padawans by Anakin who refused to allow anyone else train Padmés children.

 

Shortly after the formation of the Adari Governing Council, founding member Padmé Amidala resigned for personal reasons and was replaced by a Wookie Senator (the one from Episode I...ya know! That one!). This came with some relief for non-humans throughout Adari space since it now meant that non-humans out numbered humans in the Council (a topic that can be explored by the PC's if you wish). Only she and Anakin knew of her pregnancy and she soon disappeared from public life to her home on Naboo. Anakin managed to find time in his busy schedule to be there when his childen were born but shortly thereafter had to leave.

 

Count Dooku in the mean time had managed to gain support of the Corperate Sector and now controlled a great deal of the business world. Without his master Dooku decided it was time to exert his authourity as the new Dark Lord of the Sith. Aboard his flagship the Invisible Hand he broadcast spiritualistic messages to the populace, acting as though the Sith were a benevolant Order who had been demonized by the Jedi, explaining that the victors are the ones who write the history books. He would pit the Jedi and the Adari against the Sith and the Confederacy.

 

Dooku, now finding himself the Master, decided to find himself a suitable apprentice. He selected three young women and have pitted them against one another for his approval. Each must prove that they are worthy some way or another. Once they have his favor they will be sent to kill the one who has his least favor. If they win than they are sent to kill the last apprentice, if they fail than the apprentice they were sent to kill is sent to kill the remaining apprentice. The last one standing...er...'wins'. (I'm not changing Aurra's stats, if you want different ones you'll have to do them yourself.)

 

With the deaths of Jedi Master Yarael Poof (who died just shortly before the Senate bombings) and the Even Piell (who died in the recent battles against the Confederacy forces). The Jedi Council suddenly found itself two members short. The new members were polar opposites but both brought interesting points of view to the table. Jocasta Nu and Thracia Cho Leem. Jocasta was strict and forbidding while Thracia was caring and compassionate. Both were there when the Council heard Anakins request to reinstate Jedi marriage. The Councils decision was 7 to 5 in favor, due mostly to Anakin and Thracia's passionate arguments. (You may dictate it as you would but for me, this is how the different Council members voted: Yoda: for, Mace: against, Yaddle: against, Plo Koon: for, Depa Billaba: against, Eeth Koth: for, Jocasta Nu: against, Adi Gallia: for, Thracia Cho Leem: for, Oppo Rancis: against, Saesee Tiin: for, Ki-Adi-Mundi: for)

 

Anakin brought hope with him when he returned. The Chosen One was still alive! But that was not all, he knew the location of the lost Katana Fleet. The crew had been driven mad by a plague and were all dead. The Adari seized the chance for serious military might and recovered the ships but were unable to suitably crew them.

 

It was not long afterwards that the Clones were soon discovered by Anakin and Obi-Wan (or your groups heroes, but for the sake of my 'story' it was said heroes). Though Order Sixty-Six was also found out and soon deleted. By this time the Kaminoans had developed better ships and so the ARC Fighter, the V-Wing, Kuat Systems Engineering Eta-2 Actis Interceptor and the Venerator-Class Star Destroyer as well as Acclamator-Class Assault ships first seen in the Battle of Geonosis. This combined with the two-hundred Dreadnaughts of the Katana fleet meant that the Adari finally had the military that they had been so sorely lacking in.

 

Fearful of the Adari's wrath Dooku initiated his first military act. Using his horde of ships, Dooku sieged Kamino but was defeated. Dooku ordered the Trade Federation to upgrade their vast ships (they’re twice the size of an Imperial Star Destroyer!) since their lack of weapons had lead to their defeat at the hands of the Adari and so much of the cargo space was taken out and replaced with weapons, shields and better armor.

 

* * * *

 

What if...? Yoda and Obi-Wan took the Palpatine on together? I believe they would want to corner Vader first while he was in an out of the way place. They knew he was gone but not to where. So they asked Padmé who refused to tell them. Yoda then decided they must deal with Palpatine then and so the two headed off to stop the Emperor.

 

Meanwhile Padmé goes off to seek her husband on Mustafar, but without her stowaway, like in the movie.

 

So Yoda and Obi-Wan meet the Emperor in his office where he, as in the movie, catches Yoda off-guard with his Sith Lightning, but Obi is there to block it with his lightsaber. So begins the epic duel. It takes them into the Senate chambers where a Senate Pod hits Obi-Wan while he attempting to get above Palpatine. The Emperor then focuses his attention on the person he considers his real foe: Yoda. But Obi-Wan isn't dead, or even unconcious. Indeed he is in a prime position to kill Palpatine. As Luke put it: Overconfidence was his weakness. Obi-Wan leaps down behind the Emperor who spins around but not in time. He hits Kenobi with lightning but it's to late Obi-Wans lightsaber is already sticking out of his chest. Both combatants collapse, Obi-Wan into the Senate pod, Palpatine over the edge and down into the abyss. Yoda comes to Kenobi's aid in time as the flux of death energy dislodges the pods.

 

Across the Galaxy Anakin is greated by his wife who confides in him what the Jedi had told her, just like in the movie. His only response: Where are they? Padmé is taken of balance, she had expected denials, instead her worst fears were confirmed. But something different happens. Obi-Wan isn't there to make it seem like Padmé had betrayed Anakin. Instead Anakin feels Palpitines death through the Force but has the wherewithal to realize it wasn't his wifes fault. She begs him to come back with her and agrees to let Anakin set her up as the new Emperor, secretly knowing that without Palpatines influence, which only now did she realize how great that influence was, she would be the only one with sway over him. This would give her a great advantage and possibly allow her to bring him back from the brink.

 

But on the way back to Imperial space Padmé goes into labor, yet doesn't die. After the birth of her twins Padmé comes to a realization and begs Anakin to disappear with her. To leave everything behind and simply disappear. Fearing for his children Anakin agrees. (He was afraid that Obi-Wan and Yoda might take them.) So they end up on Tatooine where they live for some time. The Empire is fragmented. There is still a dictator, Tarkin, but without Inquisitors, Hands and other such Force-Using assasins the Jedi manage to successfully go into underground. Obi-Wan, Yoda and a few others band together but can't seem to find Anakin.

 

Anakin, in the meantime still hasn't given up his Sith teachings but isn't nearly as influenced by them as he would be. It isn't until he explodes at a 5-year-old Leia that he finally realizes just how wrong he had been about the Jedi and seeks his redemption by joining the fight against the Empire....

 

The Jedi league managed to salvage their reputation among the Rebel Alliance enough to actually start training new Jedi. The Order, it seemed, was still alive and without, as was mentioned, a whole-hearted search team of Force-Using assassins they managed to regroup under the very capable leadership of 1/6 of the Jedi Council. Obi-Wan and Yoda were soon astounded when the very person they had been hunting for six years returned with two children in tow. Anakin Skywalker had, with the help of his family, managed to pull himself back from the brink...for the most part. His emotions were still volitile and easily flew out of control, but something held him ground and he often was heard talking to himself. It isn't for a while that they find out that Anakin is actually speaking with Qui-Gon who appeared to his old friend in order to help him back to redemption.

 

With the full-fledged aid of the Jedi and former Senators Amidala, Bail Organa and Mon Mothma charismatically leading the political front the Alliance grows far more rapidly than it did in the original time-line.

 

With the combined help of so many systems the Rebellion builds a mighty fleet in a matter of six years. This fleet is spearheaded by the Jedi, just like the Republic so many years ago. Luke and Leia are now 11 and are being trained by the best of the Order, Anakin has opted to stay out of his children’s training, knowing full well of his mistakes and tainted past. Luke and Leia have already shown amazing talent and are progressing remarkably fast. But Anakin has stopped growing. His fall to the Dark-Side had shaken him and he was, for a very long time, afraid to use the Force in case he ever fell again. For one and half years he barely called upon the Force. It wasn't until Obi-Wan finally showed him that he had been forgiven that Anakin found the courage to become the Jedi that he was meant to be.

[Trejiuvanat]

Interesting stories, the Episode II alternative is really interesting, the Episode III variant seems a tad exaggerate, while the turn of events is possible they are not likely. But they are interesting reads.

[Master_Xan]

The original movies couldn't contain all the tactical information about TIEs and Xwing abilities. The movie can only be so long. I would assume that some of the Rebel fighters destroyed took hits before the fatal hit the movies show. I'd look at other LA productions to correctly determine the abilities of a fighter. Like Xwing vs. TIE or the TIE Fighter games. In Rebellion, Xwings are far superior to TIEs one on one, but they are significantly slower, longer to build, and take more to maintain. Particularly when you look at TIE Intercepters, the Empire has a far superior fighter then the Alliance.

 

TIEs don't have hyperdrives or missiles because they don't need them. They are designed to be launched from another ship, meaning there is always another ship around to provide those roles. Really, if you've got an ISD around, you probably don't need to have missile launchers on all your fighters, and with a launch platform like that you don't much need hyperdrives. These luxuries would only slow the fighter down, make them more costly, and require additional supplies (like missiles) to be shipped all over. They aren't much needed for the combat that TIEs typically see, so they don't make sense.

 

Shields are also a luxury not needed by TIEs. They would cause a power drain, making them slower. If you're slower, then you'll be hit more often, requiring more shield power... its a never-ending spiral of doom. The Empire got out of that spiral by removing the shield system altogether. Yes, a glancing hit can easily destroy them. But they outnumber the Alliance, meaning there are fewer people shooting at them, and they are faster and more agile, meaning there are fewer hits. Add in the intense training pilots receive, and they are superior in most ways for the type of combat they see.

 

Personally, I don't like the shields on TIE Defenders. When I play TIE Fighter, I almost disable the shields when I'm in a Defender. I put that power to better use for my engines and weapon recharging, leaving only a tiny bit devoted to shields in case somebody sneaks up on me when I'm not looking. This kind of limited shield system is what I as a pilot would have prefered, allowing for the speed and agility of a TIE but allowing me a moment of inattention so I could survive when I'm firing at somebody and his wingmate surprises me with a double-twist, dropped thrust and he gets a shot off at my rear before I can juke him.

 

I also liked the alternate histories. You might just inspire me to think up my own alternatives (though I'd probably be thinking more about NJO alternatives, as the prequels and originals are fairly well picked over by now). A good read.

[DarthTex]

Master_Xan wrote:

 

... Personally, I don't like the shields on TIE Defenders. When I play TIE Fighter, I almost disable the shields when I'm in a Defender. I put that power to better use for my engines and weapon recharging, leaving only a tiny bit devoted to shields in case somebody sneaks up on me when I'm not looking. ...

 

 

What a waste (*** skakes head ***). I like having the shields & keep those babies fully charged (as much as possible). When you get involved in a big furball (dogfight), the last thing you want is for some stray shot that was meant for somebody else, to cross the galaxy and then ruin your day. When you're behind a rebel ship with shields, you have to take them out first to kill your target. While you're whittling down his shields, all of his buddies are taking pot shots at you. Also, I like to use the shields as a laser cannon backup battery. When your laser power starts to drop off and you can't wait for the recharge; drain the shields some to top off your laser cannon power Usually at mission start I turn shields & lasers way up to get as much charge as possible. When it's time to engage, I'll put shields at "normal" and lasers "up 1 or 2" to keep charging. If/when the lasers are fully charged, I'll drain some into the shields as time permits. I usually don't use the tractor beam too much though.