SM's Episode III Critical Analysis

[Stellar_Magic]

Well, considering the amount I have to say and the fact I want to give the other members of the community the chance to throw rocks at me I thought a new topic would be best. I would also like to note that I have no qualms with spoilers in this forums and if you haven't seen the movie you might want to back up.

 

Now onto the critic...

 

Actor Performance:

 

The actors playing both Kenobi and Palpatine pull through and succeed in delivering remarkable performances. Still they manage to avoid stealing the show when they are involved. It's clear that Kenobi is the hero of the film despite Lucas's portrayal of Anakin as the hero in his statements.

 

Both Natalie Portman and Hayden Christenson demonstrate an improvement but they're still left in the dust compared to the others. The 'sentimental' scenes aren't quite as painful and more of it is clearly due to the director's writing not the actors themselves.

 

Christopher Lee's character doesn't have a chance to really develop any further which seems to be an incredible waste of an actor.

 

Technology:

 

I may surprise you by what I'm saying but the film actually provides a clearer link to the less advanced nature of technology in the preqeals.

 

The starships clearly are lessed advanced in many ways and this is quite well demonstrated by one of my favorite scenes in the opening sequences of the battle over Coruscant. You see the crew of the ship loading and firing their weapons out weapons ports on the ship's side. This is reminiscent of the way sailships used to batter away at each other. In the OT these emplacements have been replaced by turreted equipment which seems to have been much more effective. Still there are limited explanations as to why the prequeals feature starfighters with missile technology as advanced as they demonstrate.

 

Battle Sequences:

 

While several of the battle sequences are quite impressive visually its clear that those that created them didn't take the time to plan them out. Tactics and strategy seem to play no part in the engagements. Everything seems to be a wild melee witch missiles and blaster fire going everywhere. There is no progression from one stage of the engagement to another. The OT displayed a remarkable ability to show tactics and strategy in the fights which took place, this film like all the Prequeals is clearly lacking in that regard.

 

Pacing:

 

Oh dear, Lucas tries to go hyperwar. Everything happens far to quickly in my opinion and most of the action seems to be placed at the very start and from the middle to the end. The film noticably slows down when it switches to the scenes attempting to shore up the Anakin-Padme relationship. The action sequences should have been spread out even if it required an additional hour.

 

Several scenes should have been longer: The talk between Padme and Obi-wan about Anakin's fall, Palpatines declaration of an Empire, Yoda and Palpatine's duel, Obi-wan and Anakin's duel, Dooku's fall, and the Battle for Kashyyk. Each individual sequence in a scene should have been longer. There should have been at least five minutes between swipes simply to engage the audience more in the situation.

 

Continuality Errors: Ooops...

 

Anakin states that the council has never in its history had a Jedi on it without becoming a master upon being placed there.

Error-

In Episode III one of Council Members is a Knight.

 

When Vader is first sat upright his hands are shackled up by his shoulders, in the next shot their down by his waste.

 

Individual Scene Critics:

 

Opening Combat Engagement: The Battle of Coruscant:

Despite the enormous mass of ships in the engagement the characters never seem to be under all that much threat. Sure they had to shake a pair of missiles and some droids, but I've got to ask. Where are all the CIS starfighters? Surely they'd be engaging in dogfights all the way to their target. Secondly, who is in command of the mission? We'd care more if more characters were under threat so put another Jedi Council member in charge of the fleets actions or...better yet. Put Tarkin in command of the Op.

 

The Dooku vs. Anakin Duel:

It's way to short and one sided. Dooku should have lasted a lot longer, and maybe it would be even better if he said a couple more lines!

 

The Battle of Kashyyk:

We all know why they put this in, to show Chewie but guess what he's got one arf and thats it. The battle should be longer and Chewie should have an actual role to play instead of just a name drop by Yoda. The droids are launching an amphibious assault, perhaps lucas could look at Saving Private Ryan to pull in what the battle would be like for them.

 

The Anakin vs Obi-wan Duel:

Length, almost right. My main problem is that the characters should be saying something, we need to see the friendship really breaking down. Surely Anakin would at least taunt Obi-wan.

 

The Yoda vs Sidious Duel:

Yoday said in ROTJ, "Beware the powers of the Emperor or suffer your father's fate you will." Or something along those lines. Well Palpatine didn't demonstrate any exceptional powers. He's got great TK and Lightning but we've seen those before. Yoda escapes mostly unscaved. The willy little man ends up with a draw. Yoda doesn't seem to be beaten which is what we should see for him to be forced into exhile.

 

Other Remarks:

Generally with some rewritting the story could be on par with LOTR, if someone else was behind the reigns. The possibility of real heavy emotional weight was visible but not used. The 'sentimental' scenes stumbled and fell and Obi-wan's friendship isn't developed much further then from AOTC. Nice try Lucas.

 

Oh, and I didn't complain abotu the renanimating midiclorians because they fit so well into Rapora Wars as did the remarks about 'misreading' the prophecy.

[Trejiuvanat]

I can agree with most of what SM said, after seeing it a second time I can start to reform an analysis.

 

I'll try to organize what I though was well done and what was missing.

 

Coruscant Battle: As SM said, strategy is missing. It doesn't have to be Zahn-like Thrawnish strategy, but simple and effective (think ROTJ). If not for the crawling text one wouldn't know that the Seps are actually trying to escape.

 

A Neimoidian here asking his troops to avoid the bulk of the Republic FLeet, and a ruthless Tarkin instructing all ships to block all possible exits, while a handful of daring Jedi execute the primary objective.

 

Dooku: Dies too quick. More taunting during the duel, but the face of recognized betrayal when Palpy ask Anakin to kill ihm is priceless. A waste of a good actor in a role that coudl have done miracles for the prequels.

 

Coruscant plottin' and lovin': As I said elsewhere the calmer, more sentimental scenes needed more development, though the acting could possibly not stand up to it, I would have prefered a longer more emotive dialogue between Padme and Anakin, a more tempting Palpatine. More Organa, too. There's plotting everywhere, and no one knows who too trust. (What if: We know Anakin loves, Padme but they don't share the same political view. Bring Organa along who is a nice guy and does have the same political views as her. Create a miniature love triangle, that will make Anakin doubt of the Senator and reinforce his faith in PAlpy.)

 

Utapau: A great setting, vertiginous, good for a wild chase in an unusual terrain. Griveous was a disappointment. He is arguably the best appliance in the Sep household for blending or making puree, but not for a villian. A silly way to go out.

 

Kashyyyk: If Geonosis was Iraq, then Kashyyyk was Vietnam. An amphibian environment, with savage wookiees. It could have been played out longer, and not only the beginning of the battle and stormies surveying for Yoda in the aftermath.

 

Coruscant and back again: Knd of uncomfortable with all chars returning to Coruscant for anything, I couldn't see any other way, I did but that's a rant for another sectoin. Jedi Temple sequences were good, as was the 'arrest' of Palpatine. The declaration of the Empire should have been longer, and perhaps some more of the Order 66 deaths, they were well done.

 

Duel Time: At times annoying to be switching landscapes, at times good to see the parallelism of the duel of fates. master vs master, knight vs knight, there's finally balance in the Force, though the prophecy was obvioulsy misread. Good duels, though more taunting from Anakin to OBi-Wan would have been welcome.

 

Closing scenes: Appropriate, short succint, tying together what needed to be tied. -Or better yet: TIEd (love those fighters near the DS).

 

Overall critics:

Padme: She has a greatly reduced role, and though Nat isn't the best actress, PAdme being in the center of Anakin's evil may have requires some more scenes.

 

Actoin: as I said elsewhere and SM has noted it too, too fast-paced. Too much going on, for two hours. But I guess Lucas was afraid of making this a three hour movie.

 

Villians: Dooku goes out too quickly and GRiveous is a chicken in a droid's body. Once Palpy reveals himself, Dookua dn Griveous are distant memories.

 

Everyone's favorite droid duo: They were necessary to the storytelling of the OT, then at times they were used not only for humor, but to represent a subconscient for the main chars (Luke mostly). There is a few scenes when they do actually talk about what a character (namely Anakin) is feeling. R2 action can be cheap at times, but I really prefer that too Jar-Jar. Arto can always make me laugh.

 

The Prequel's ending:

 

A good ending, but a compressed one. Which confirms my thoughts that Lucas gets better if given enough time. ANH was a process of at least 11 different scripts, he took his time to 'debug' everything in the first story. I doubt episode i underwent a similar cleansing. If the prequels had undergone a similar and thorough elaboration, the prequels would have gained much more quality.

 

There a lot of good stuff in ROTS, and there were hints of smart stuff in eps I and II, but they were in the raw. Not yet carved out as the OT was.

 

[whatif]Episode I is a good platform fort he political plot, but other wise it is useless. If finding an older Anakin had been incorporated into the beginning of AOTC and that would have been the first episode, with ROTS being fattened and split in two, the prequels would have been laid out better. The good things of the prequels needed far more screentime, screentime that was wasted in a blockade to a planet that no one actually cares for.

 

Lucas many times seemed hesitant to build in more elaborate stuff into the movies. Afraid of kids not really understanding it, perhaps? In Eps II and III to add a Minister of War which could have been Tarkin, woudl have deepened the schism between the Jedi and the Republic. [/whatif]

[Grand_Admiral_Thrawn]

Actor Performance:

 

The actors playing both Kenobi and Palpatine pull through and succeed in delivering remarkable performances. Still they manage to avoid stealing the show when they are involved. It's clear that Kenobi is the hero of the film despite Lucas's portrayal of Anakin as the hero in his statements.

 

Both Natalie Portman and Hayden Christenson demonstrate an improvement but they're still left in the dust compared to the others. The 'sentimental' scenes aren't quite as painful and more of it is clearly due to the director's writing not the actors themselves.

 

Christopher Lee's character doesn't have a chance to really develop any further which seems to be an incredible waste of an actor.

 

I agree almost 100%. Obi-Wan and the Emperor were by far the best actors in the film, and I would even go so far as to say that Ewan shone the brightest. Hayden and Portman were indeed markedly improved, Hayden especially. I think he was more comfortable with his role this time and his lines were written better. I've never really found Portman to be that impressive in these films.

 

As for Duko... well, I think people are trying to make him into a bigger character than he was meant to be. He and Maul were only meant to fill the apprentices seat until the end of RotS, and I thought it best that they dealt with him quickly rather than dragging his demise out until most of the way through the film. They could have given him more lines or extended the duel a little, but it wouldn't have added anything to the story, so keeping it short and sweet probably worked better.

 

Technology:

 

I may surprise you by what I'm saying but the film actually provides a clearer link to the less advanced nature of technology in the preqeals.

 

The starships clearly are lessed advanced in many ways and this is quite well demonstrated by one of my favorite scenes in the opening sequences of the battle over Coruscant. You see the crew of the ship loading and firing their weapons out weapons ports on the ship's side. This is reminiscent of the way sailships used to batter away at each other. In the OT these emplacements have been replaced by turreted equipment which seems to have been much more effective. Still there are limited explanations as to why the prequeals feature starfighters with missile technology as advanced as they demonstrate.

 

I also found the shell-like ammunition of the larger guns striking, and it does reflect well against the weapons twenty years later.

 

As for missiles: the Empire was more into saving money, so that explains why TIE Fighters lack missiles. The Rebellion was cash-strapped, so they were forced to use them sparingly. Or maybe fighters evolved to the point where missiles weren't as effective? I suppose we'll just have to pick the explaination we like best.

 

Battle Sequences:

 

While several of the battle sequences are quite impressive visually its clear that those that created them didn't take the time to plan them out. Tactics and strategy seem to play no part in the engagements. Everything seems to be a wild melee witch missiles and blaster fire going everywhere. There is no progression from one stage of the engagement to another. The OT displayed a remarkable ability to show tactics and strategy in the fights which took place, this film like all the Prequeals is clearly lacking in that regard.

 

I found the battles to be reminiscent of 19th century combat. The two sides simply form up and throw themselves at one another. Remember, there hasn't been a real war since the formation of the Republic, so tactics have had a long time to degrade. By the OT we see that the Empire has perfected it's tactics. We also know that the Jedi have no regard for the lives of the clones. In the opening scene we see Obi-Wan simply use them as meat shields so he and Anakin can get onto the enemy ship (which is also why they weren't harried very much, answering one of your points below).

 

Pacing:

 

Oh dear, Lucas tries to go hyperwar. Everything happens far to quickly in my opinion and most of the action seems to be placed at the very start and from the middle to the end. The film noticably slows down when it switches to the scenes attempting to shore up the Anakin-Padme relationship. The action sequences should have been spread out even if it required an additional hour.

 

Now, I don't want to be nit-pickey, but you say the action happens at the "very start, and the middle to the end". So that leaves us with a small lull between "very start" and "middle". If there was nothing but action there wouldn't be any plot. There had to be a spot to develope events, and I think Lucas chose a good spot.

 

Several scenes should have been longer: The talk between Padme and Obi-wan about Anakin's fall, Palpatines declaration of an Empire, Yoda and Palpatine's duel, Obi-wan and Anakin's duel, Dooku's fall, and the Battle for Kashyyk. Each individual sequence in a scene should have been longer. There should have been at least five minutes between swipes simply to engage the audience more in the situation.

 

I agree that the battle on Kashyyk was far too short. There should have been more fighting. more to do with Chewie etc.

 

However, I again point out that extending the rest of them wouldn't gain anything. Obi-Wan and Padme talking longer would just be five extra minutes of her not believing him. He knew he couldn't convince her and had resigned himslef to simply stow away to get what he wanted. We also know that she truly didn't believe him until she had talked to Anakin in person, so more of "I don't believe you, he's a good person" would gain nothing.

 

Yoda and the Emperor... well, there could have been a bit more there, just for entertainments sake, but I don't think anything was lost with it the way it is.

 

The declaration of the Empire would have dragged out a bit. One can only say so much before "And now there is the first Galactic Empire". Unless it was extended after that point, which would have been more clapping...

 

Continuality Errors: Ooops...

 

Anakin states that the council has never in its history had a Jedi on it without becoming a master upon being placed there.

Error-

In Episode III (I'm guessing you meant I or II) one of Council Members is a Knight.

 

After looking at all of the Jedi from the council during Episode I (those that I could remember their names) on StarWars.com, I haven't found reference to a Council member not of the rank of Master.

 

When Vader is first sat upright his hands are shackled up by his shoulders, in the next shot their down by his waste.

 

I hadn't noticed this. I'll have to pay more attention next time.

 

Individual Scene Critics:

 

Opening Combat Engagement: The Battle of Coruscant:

Despite the enormous mass of ships in the engagement the characters never seem to be under all that much threat. Sure they had to shake a pair of missiles and some droids, but I've got to ask. Where are all the CIS starfighters? Surely they'd be engaging in dogfights all the way to their target.

 

Obi-Wan had ordered the clone pilots to cover them, which basically meant "die so we don't". I also had the impression that most of the battle was happening well away from where Grievous' ship was.

 

Secondly, who is in command of the mission? We'd care more if more characters were under threat so put another Jedi Council member in charge of the fleets actions or...better yet. Put Tarkin in command of the Op.

 

The battle raging around the heroes was actually pointless, so we didn't need to know who was in command. We do know that Obi-Wan was in command of the mission to rescue the Chancellor. I think having Tarkin play the small roll he did worked best It shows us how close he was to the Emperor. If the Death Star was as far along as it was at the end of the movie, he must have been building it for some time (which means it took more than 20 years to build the first Death Star).

 

The Dooku vs. Anakin Duel:

It's way to short and one sided. Dooku should have lasted a lot longer, and maybe it would be even better if he said a couple more lines!

 

Maybe more fighting, but any more dialogue would have dragged it out.

 

The Battle of Kashyyk:

We all know why they put this in, to show Chewie but guess what he's got one arf and thats it. The battle should be longer and Chewie should have an actual role to play instead of just a name drop by Yoda. The droids are launching an amphibious assault, perhaps lucas could look at Saving Private Ryan to pull in what the battle would be like for them.

 

Definitely. This should have been more than a footnote and an excuse to put Chewie in the movie. I also think it would have been funny to see a droid walking across the beach and picking up it's severed arm .

 

The Anakin vs Obi-wan Duel:

Length, almost right. My main problem is that the characters should be saying something, we need to see the friendship really breaking down. Surely Anakin would at least taunt Obi-wan.

 

I thought this duel was just right. It was very similar to the Vader vs Luke duel in ESB. Mostly fighting, only a little dialogue.

 

The Yoda vs Sidious Duel:

Yoday said in ROTJ, "Beware the powers of the Emperor or suffer your father's fate you will." Or something along those lines. Well Palpatine didn't demonstrate any exceptional powers. He's got great TK and Lightning but we've seen those before. Yoda escapes mostly unscaved. The willy little man ends up with a draw. Yoda doesn't seem to be beaten which is what we should see for him to be forced into exhile.

 

At first I thought it was a stalemate too, but we get the impression that Yoda had given his all once he fell to the bottom of the senate chamber and we see that, though he had a little scare, the Emperor still had pleanty of pep left. If Yoda had of continued there was a good chance he woulnd't have made it out alive. By making his exit when he did he basically ensured he would be able to take some role in the rebellion agianst the Empire, though he wasn't sure what that role would be until the twins were born.

 

Other Remarks:

Generally with some rewritting the story could be on par with LOTR, if someone else was behind the reigns. The possibility of real heavy emotional weight was visible but not used. The 'sentimental' scenes stumbled and fell and Obi-wan's friendship isn't developed much further then from AOTC. Nice try Lucas.

 

I agree with out here. I had the impression that Anakin and Obi-Wan were more like father and son than brothers, and there was pleanty of oppertunity for emotional tie-in that were taken advantage of.

 

 

There is something I'm a little confused about here. People (not just SM, but those in the other thread) have been finding faults in this film that where in the OT as well.

 

Scenes were too short? Look back at the OT. With the exception of the Battle of Hoth (all of the main players were in one place there) there is so much scene jumping it's not funny. In ANH we jump from Luke to Vader to the Droids to Vader, to the Droids to Vader, to Luke and the Droids, to Vader etc. We have the same Luke/Vader/Han and Leia happening in ESB (though at a slower rate for sure) in ESB, and then it picks back up in RotJ (slow in the start, faster during the Battle of Endor).

 

For a beter idea, compare the duels in this movie to those in the OT. I'd say Anakin vs Obi-Wan is about as long as Vader vs Luke in ESB. Yoda vs Paplpitane is probably as long as Luke vs Vader in RotJ. And I'm certain Mace vs Palpitane is about as long as Obi-Wan vs Vader in ANH.

 

As for lulls in the movies: the first half of Bespin, everything at Jabbas Palace until Luke comes in and anything in the Ewok town. I'd say RotS did a good job of avoiding boring parts.

 

I think that if the OT were released for the first time today you would all find the same faults in it as you have in RotS. It's not fair to hold one movie to a different set of standards than it's peers. If we are to judge RotS we must judge ANH, ESB and RotJ by the same standards.

 

Just a last note. There is one continuaty error no one has picked up on yet: how is it the Emperor is deformed by Force Lightning, but Luke comes out with little more than a singed shirt and some ruffled hair?

[Paul]

I have just read an interview with Ian McDiarmid in which he explains that the Emperor is NOT changed by force lightning, but merely showing his true form for the first time. As a Sithlord he always has looked this way, he has been showing a front to win over Anakin and fool the casual observers.To Quote him" The Emperor that you see in the last film looks like he does because he is very old and very evil-It is what he always looked like." Ian McDiarmid-Grand Moff Conway

[Darth_Rob]

I'm glad to hear that. That definetly makes more sense. The Emperor was just so consumed by his hate that it must have deteriated his body. But now I just wonder if Palpatine was a native from Naboo (he was the senator), and how he actually got mixed up in the Dark Side in the first place.

[Mad78]

Being a Senator means he would not be at Naboo at all tie. And maybe he met the Sith bfore becoming Senator.

[Jahled]

Well, i've just seen it and am still in a state of Star Wars New Movie shock, though I must confess to having enjoyed it; and much more than the last two episodes.

 

I thought the first half of the film was a little messy and confused about up to the point where Palpatine reveals himself to Anakin, then in takes off. Without wishing to spoil anything for thoughs yet to see the film, several bits at the end made it for me, especially as someone who has been more or less obsessed with this entire Star Wars thing since 1977.

 

Darth Vader (obviously), but crying in frustration, suit and all, when Palpatine tells him something*, and the Star Destroyers hovering infront of something* with Palpatine, Vader, and an almost younger Tarkin; but especially with the Star Destroyer crew, crew-pit and all.

 

Me liked it.

 

*Being vague

[Vero]

For all the people wondering why Yoda ran away from the emporer during their duel....read the book. *Spoiler ahead*

 

In the book it said that Yoda realized that he was training himself and all the jedi to fight the Old Sith nemesis and improving on that. The New Sith so to speak had been making up new tactics and such since they lost the first war. Yoda realized he had no chance to fight against this new power that he had no training against and so therefore found it easier to leave then to be killed. Of course this is coming from the book so i dont know if this is all true but its where i got my information

[Skynxnex]

You have to understand, Lucas has set that movies rank the highest followed by novels in terms of the canon hierarchy. Since the movie didnt violate what was written in the novel it is safe to assume that that is the reason why Yoda left. Also, one should keep in mind that the Emperor had been using a 'shroud of the darkside' that seemed to limit the jedi abilities. This is in reference to certain quotes from AOTC.

[ElvisMiggell]

Oh soooo good :D

[NIIIC]

Being 2 days now since I saw it, every time I think about it, my pessimist vision of that film gets better. Having also seen the Clone War Anim. I find it even better. So now, I think that I really quit liked it.

 

Both Natalie Portman and Hayden Christenson demonstrate an improvement but they're still left in the dust compared to the others. The 'sentimental' scenes aren't quite as painful and more of it is clearly due to the director's writing not the actors themselves.

 

I agree. In E. I and II, Padmé is a women who is ready to day fighting for the freedom of her people. I E. III, she is some fuss put of a princess who doesn’t know what she wants.

 

Pacing:

 

Oh dear, Lucas tries to go hyperwar. Everything happens far too quickly in my opinion and most of the action seems to be placed at the very start and from the middle to the end. The film noticably slows down when it switches to the scenes attempting to shore up the Anakin-Padme relationship. The action sequences should have been spread out even if it required an additional hour.

 

Several scenes should have been longer: The talk between Padme and Obi-wan about Anakin's fall, Palpatines declaration of an Empire, Yoda and Palpatine's duel, Obi-wan and Anakin's duel, Dooku's fall, and the Battle for Kashyyk. Each individual sequence in a scene should have been longer. There should have been at least five minutes between swipes simply to engage the audience more in the situation.

 

I absolutely agree, I think that that is what really pissed me off. And some scenes that seemed interesting like the battle in the Jedi Temple were just simply cut out. I also really regret Kashyyk and Ren Var, which we see a glimpse of during the 066 order.

 

Opening Combat Engagement:

The Battle of Coruscant:

Despite the enormous mass of ships in the engagement the characters never seem to be under all that much threat. Sure they had to shake a pair of missiles and some droids, but I've got to ask. Where are all the CIS starfighters? Surely they'd be engaging in dogfights all the way to their target. Secondly, who is in command of the mission? We'd care more if more characters were under threat so put another Jedi Council member in charge of the fleets actions or...better yet. Put Tarkin in command of the Op.

 

I found it to confusing, and the back ground didn't help at all. And what a pity 90% of that battle is trying to take some stupid small droids of Obi's fighter. I also thought it was altogether to easy, the space part and the part entering Griveous' ship

 

The Anakin vs Obi-wan Duel:

Length, almost right. My main problem is that the characters should be saying something, we need to see the friendship really breaking down. Surely Anakin would at least taunt Obi-wan.

 

The Yoda vs Sidious Duel:

Yoday said in ROTJ, "Beware the powers of the Emperor or suffer your father's fate you will." Or something along those lines. Well Palpatine didn't demonstrate any exceptional powers. He's got great TK and Lightning but we've seen those before. Yoda escapes mostly unscaved. The willy little man ends up with a draw. Yoda doesn't seem to be beaten which is what we should see for him to be forced into exhile.

 

I thought the length of the two battles was perfect, not too short, but not too long and repetitive. I liked very much the "discussion" between Obi and Anakin at the end before he burns. The Palpy vs. Yoda battle was awesome, but I just can't understand why Yoda left, I mean P. was in a quite desperate situation, hanging over a 50 m drop plus the two of them had lost there sabres, so they were quite equal. Mostly that Yoda merrily got up and started crawling in vent pips.

 

Dooku: Dies too quick. More taunting during the duel, but the face of recognized betrayal when Palpy ask Anakin to kill ihm is priceless. A waste of a good actor in a role that coudl have done miracles for the prequels.

 

I agree, in E. II, he manages to hold up against Yoda, not for very long but a bit anyway, there he is kill by a not master Jedi in about 2 min. what hapend to him, did he get a cramp???

 

Coruscant plottin' and lovin': As I said elsewhere the calmer, more sentimental scenes needed more development, though the acting could possibly not stand up to it, I would have prefered a longer more emotive dialogue between Padme and Anakin, a more tempting Palpatine.

 

I think Lucas should have done it much longer and with way better scrip. I also think Anakin was a bit easy to get to join the dark side. I quit like Trej's idea of having what is important in E. I added to E. II and having E. III split up into two.

 

Utapau: A great setting, vertiginous, good for a wild chase in an unusual terrain. Griveous was a disappointment. He is arguably the best appliance in the Sep household for blending or making puree, but not for a villian. A silly way to go out.

 

I thought G. Griveous was a very powerful siborg that masters a bit the Force and that managed to kill four Jedi at once, I didn’t think he was some cuffing robot that having four swards get killed by one Jedi who had one sward with no great trouble in 2 min.

 

Jedi Temple sequences were good, as was the 'arrest' of Palpatine. The declaration of the Empire should have been longer, and perhaps some more of the Order 66 deaths, they were well done.

 

Yes for everything. One thing I can't understand, Yoda is supposed to be the wisest and most powerful Jedi, and Windu the second, why is it that Yoda can't win against P, but Windu would of if Anakin hadn’t come?

 

Everyone's favorite droid duo: They were necessary to the storytelling of the OT, then at times they were used not only for humor, but to represent a subconscient for the main chars (Luke mostly). There is a few scenes when they do actually talk about what a character (namely Anakin) is feeling. R2 action can be cheap at times, but I really prefer that too Jar-Jar. Arto can always make me laugh.

 

I found the little fight batwing R2 and the two Super Droids a bit to funny, it was a bit ridiculous. and I didn’t think it was good that the Fed Droids were communicating between each other out loud, I mean they are robots, you would have thought they have an intern communication devices.

 

 

I think that if the OT were released for the first time today you would all find the same faults in it as you have in RotS. It's not fair to hold one movie to a different set of standards than it's peers. If we are to judge RotS we must judge ANH, ESB and RotJ by the same standards.

 

No, you have to judge them one different scales for the simple reason that there has been a 30 years gap between now and ANH and the most incredible technology advances. Plus, ANH was a film made by some discreet young man, and RotS was made by the same man but with 30 years more experience and a budget that was a least the triple. And of course, it is the last one, one would expect hi to put every thing he had in it.

 

To finish: First, I really recommend to anyone who hasn't seen it yet to be shore they have seen the Clone War Animations, I has to go with the film. Second, it is a very good film, but if you go in expecting some thing equal or superior to the OT, like I did, you will be disappointed, but if you go and expect something at the level of the prequels, like Mad did, you will find it excellent. Tired, I found that the tree mane sabre battle (Windu vs. Palpy, Yoda vs. Palyp and Obi vs. Anakin) are the best in the SW saga. Fourth, I am still very disappointed with the space battle. Fifth, I found that the technical side of the film was excellent.

 

Hope I haven't repeated my self or been to long.

[blixxard]

Hey all. Signed up to the forums as you all seem like a good bunch + I play supremacy …rebellion!

 

I thought the film was fantastic it really did fill in the gaps.

 

The opening scene you are welcomed to the battle around Coruscant which is fantastic. My understanding is that the separatist ships drop out of hyperspace and begin to engage the ships surrounding Coruscant, as more of the clones leave the ground to help with the space battle general grievous sneaks in behind and captures palpatine.

 

I have to admit some scenes were short and jumping back and forth trying to keep up. Therefore some of the scenes would have had to been kept short, Lucas must have cut a lot out the film. I have seen stills of a young Mon Mothma and ships flying out from the death star. Once can hope that the DVD will have a bundle of extras.

 

One of my favourite links was when most the systems clapped at palpatines speech about giving him more powers and the birth of the empire. Then of course in episode 4 Moff Tarkin says ‘we keep the systems in check with this death star’ (along those lines) Which means the systems fear being destroyed. Finally when death star I is destroyed many systems rebel...queue star wars supremacy/rebellion. I just thought that was a very good link.

 

Anyway brilliant film and brilliant assessment of the film Stellar_Magic

[Stellar_Magic]

After looking at all of the Jedi from the council during Episode I (those that I could remember their names) on StarWars.com, I haven't found reference to a Council member not of the rank of Master.

 

According to the Essential Guide to Characters Ki-Adi-Mundi was only of the rank of Jedi Knight until shortly before AOTC.

 

I'll be the first to admit that the Original Trilogy has its own share of writting problems, I mean, come on Ewoks? Most of the Original Trilogy's seeming grandier is our own imbellishment. What makes the Prequeals seem so bad, their competition. If you looked at other films released in the 1970s Star Wars stands alone. If you look at today...

 

Lets just say Lucas has competition now. LOTR, StarGate, Sci-Fi's remake of Dune. Every one of them competes with Star Wars, no wonder if you compare Star Wars to say LOTR it falls flat on its face.

 

*SM hunkers down behind a pillbox and awaits a storm of weapons fire.

[Trejiuvanat]

*Charges weapon.

 

I agree with you about the OT having its own problems, Ewoks being the greater of them all. But Ewoks are there for a reason: There was no money to make Wookiees, even the name Ewok is a deformation from the name Wookiee. (Say Wookie many times rapidly).

 

SW now has competition, that's right. But that's not the only thing. Lucas is kind of dephased, why was the Podrace a flop? Because no one was really interested in seeing a galactic adaptation of Ben Hur in Star Wars, only Lucas who wanted that particualr Roman Reference in his movies, combined with his interested for car races.

 

Lucas also seemed hesistant, I think, because of the prequels taking up the plot into politics. In the OT he could mask the message of the movies better, now it is much more obvious: Powerful private economies, versus a Republic of mistrust and decaying moral value, combined with a powerful warmachine, and an powerhungry leader.

 

Acting which is something we keep complaining wasn't that great in the OT, at least in the beginning: IT was Cushing's and Sir Alec's acting that kept the boat floating, opposed to a whiny acting by Hamill. It got better, which was to be expected, as has happened in the PT. Ewan has improved in everymovie, and both Nate and HAyden have improved. Liam neeson did a very good job in Ep I, and McDiarmid scenes were always the best in most movies, Smitts (Organa) really could have used more screentime.

 

Except for some details, and that never-a-knight-in-the-council-stuff, Lucas kept with the continuity (we know he has not ever read a novel, so we cannot drag them in).

 

Even so, I think the prequels are still above average combined to the competition, excepting LOTR of course. But the PT was above Matrix, above Dune, Stargate, the latest Star Trek stuff.

[Mad78]

***deactivates blaster's safety catch***

 

Anything can be better than Matrix and Star Trek

[Grand_Admiral_Thrawn]

Sure there were some things that could have been added to this movie, but it wouldn't have made sense to have five movies two hours in length, and one somewhere around four hours

 

Since some people seem to think these movies shouldn't be pitted against the OT, and that they are of a different class, let's compare RotS to the LotR movies:

 

If one were to take the RotS novel and adapt it 100% to film you would have a movie the lenght of LotR movies (individualy), somewhere around the three to four hour mark. If you did the same with the LotR novels you would have three movies around the six hour mark. What Lucas did was cut out anything that didn't advance the plot as it was established in bot the first two PT movies and in the OT.

 

Let's reflect on what could have been had he done what many of you suggest:

 

More in-depth opening battle: So, we see something more along the lines of the Battle of Endor. Entertaining? Of course! Who wouldn't want to see that. But then, the battle wasn't really the point, was it? We know Paplitane was in charge of the droids, so the whole battle was nothing more than one step in moving his plans forward (ie. eliminating Dooku). The plot focussed on Obi-Wan and Anakin. If we saw more of the battle we would hear complaints that breaching Grievous' ship was dragged out too much.

 

Longer Duels: Seeing as these were by-far the longest lightsaber duels in any of the films I think this is moot. However, I too would have liked a little more action between Dooku and Anakin, but again, nothing is really lost as it is. There is only so much you can do in a "sword" fight without repeating yourself.

 

Now someone (NIIIC?) mentioned the Jedi Temple. I think there was a reason for cutting it short. I too would have liked to watch Anakin waste some Jedi scum, but how many Jedi were actually there? Many of them would have been taking part in the war with only a handful left at the Temple. I think the real reason for cutting this scene short was that no one wants to watch Anakin cut down a bunch of children, who probably were the most numerous.

 

Jumps around/Too fast: This film is faster paced than the other five, but again, you're trying to watch Anakin, Obi-Wan, Padme, Palpitane, Grievous and the Jedi Council, all of whom play major roles. I think he covered everything pretty well. If we look at other movies, like LotR, there are maybe two or three (max) groups that we are watching constantly.

 

Kashyyk too short: Yes, it was. This is almost as bad as midichlorians.

 

 

All that said, there was something I really liked: the Jedi Prophecy. In the end we see that Anakin does bring balance to the Force, just not when the Jedi Council thought he would. First he eliminated the Jedi, and then in RotJ he deals with the Sith as well. He was just a little more thorough than the prophecy stated .

[Trejiuvanat]

About that last thing, I agree with you, he balanced the numbers between the Sith and the Jedi. With each side having one master and one knight.

 

Also about the opening battle, I tend to agree about focusing too much on tactics would deviate from the Anakin and Obi, but at least one scene before they actually enter the Invisible Hand about teh strategy in battle would have been better. Instead of too much buzzdroids.

 

After seeing ROTS once again (third time's the charm?) I find the verbal interaction of Dooku and Anakin appropriate, there was not much to say to each otehr, but in the Obi-Anakin duel I really found it too lacking in teh verbal duel, they fight 'sliently' for too long. I guess Lucas wanted to avoid 'one-liner' pauses and cuts to the Senate Duel, but there were plenty of moments where Anakin could have taunted Obi more. (That Clone Wars line: As for your wisdom, you are not Qui-Gon Jinn, would have worked or something else to make Kenobi face that he did fail him and put more wight into his admission of failure. But oh well.

[Stellar_Magic]

***deactivates blaster's safety catch***

 

Anything can be better than Matrix and Star Trek

 

I agree wth the Matrix but not the Star Trek, Star Trek has had its own share of good stories albiet they only occur occasionally.

 

Perhaps after seeing the movie for the second time it would get better, it didn't.

 

I figured out another thing which bothered me about Episode III. Natalie Portman's Character is now in her late twenties, but she acts like a pregnant sixteen year old. Her character seems to have reversed in terms of maturity and is actuall less mature in Episode III then II.

 

I must retract a statement I made earlier, Vader is restrained correctly during the entire scene, its only in the trailer that his fists are level with where his shoulders are.

 

Perhaps I can show you how I think the opening battle sequence could have been made better...

 

The sequence begins as it does in the film with Anakin and Obiwan entering the engagement above Courscant...

 

Anakin called out as his sensor display lit up, "There's Grievous's command ship. The one thats covered with vulture droids."

 

"I see it," Obiwan spins his starfighter as a wing of droidstarfighters and diagonas move to engage, "Commander, form your squadron behind us."

 

"Roger General Kenobi," The clone starfighters form up behind the two Jedi, "Set S-foils to attack position."

 

"Anakin, go right through them," Obi-wan called across the radio as he switches his s-foils to attack position and begins firing at the oncoming swarm of droid starfighters.

 

Skywalker accelerated, throwing more power to his engines and slipped in beside his master, "I'm right with you." The Droid starfighters scream toward them firing. Several break after the first past and swing around to come in behind the two Jedi. The clones blast them as well as a number of the oncoming droids.

 

A Confederate Cruiser maneuvers into a blocking position in front of the Jedi starfighters. Obi-wan sees it, "Uh oh. General Tarkin, are you seeing this?"

 

"Yes General, more ships are maneuvering to block your path. We've got starfighter launches from the Trade Federation Ships. Commander, suppress the cruiser's fire."

 

"Roger General, Squad, braking thrusters, attack pattern Alpha." The Clone Starfighters decelerate and begin firing on the cruiser. The Anti-starfighter defenses begin to return fire and one after another of the starfighters is blasted in the return fire and by the starfighters which are maneuvering to engage. The Jedi Starfighters slip past the cruiser unnoticed.

 

You understand what I'm saying, putting strategy and Tarkin into the engagement would be easy, I guess Lucas was just lazy.

Edited May 22, 2005 by Stellar_Magic

[Skynxnex]

Ok I just saw the movie myself.

 

 

Now there are some spoilers that follow so if you havent seen the movie..HAVE NOT SEEN THE MOVIE DONT CONTINUE READING MY POST.

 

Ahem.

 

 

I felt that the movie was...cut...very weirdly. It seemed to jump around which left me wondering..wtf? Haha. Anyway, George seemed to cut this movie in a very odd way.

 

He still had cheesy lines going on...ugh.

 

Another nitpick of mine..he seemed to make it almost more kiddy in my opinion. Dammit. This movie got a pg-13 rating and now the fricking droid fighters in space got voices? So dumb. The battledroids also had dumb voices too. Thankfully Jar Jar was more or less non-existent.

 

Also Lucas seemed to get Ian Mcdiarmid ( the emperor) some stupid lines like when Dooku is fighting Anakin. Also the saber battle was not long enough between these two. Lucas really really should have tried to copy Return of the Jedi and have Dooku taunt him more and that sort of thing. Then Anakin finally breaks free with his anger and then win. I sort of had that pictured in my mind. There were so many elements of that from Return that I dont see why he didnt try to imitate that more. With that said, some things were kind of cool. I thought seeing Anakin become more dark and so on was cool. To me it was clear that Palpy could have beaten Mace. He gave in way too easily and I know the reason why was to have him convert Anakin over.

 

Lets see, the fight between Yoda and the emperor should have been better done in my opinion. To me it seemed like an almost stalemate. Yet in the novel it made it more or less clear that Yoda knew he couldnt win.

 

Oh well. It was fun to watch but I will admit overall I was disappointed. I was hoping some of the cheesiness had been lost.

[Guest Scathane]

After watching the movie, I must say that I liked it. Then again, I must admit that I didn't have high hopes, considering the first two episodes. My two cents, then...

 

I thought that several scenes were too short, such as the space battle at the beginning, the battle of Kashyyyk and the duel between Anakin and Dooku. The sentimental and dialogue scenes tended to mirror them in being somewhat over extended, making the movie somewhat slow at times. Criticism, however, should be mainly directed at the plot, in my opinion.

 

Again, Lucas has provided us with a thin-plotted movie, which, by lack of depth, leaves the viewer with a lot of questions or at least the perception of some scenes being unlikely to have actually taken place.

 

In the opening scene, we see a space battle as a result of the capture of Palpatine. What's lacking here first off, is a motive (or at least an alleged motive) for kidnapping him. What did the separatists hope to achieve by capturing the Senator? Or what did the jedi think the separatists hoped to achieve? Of course, I can make some things up myself, but it would have greatly added to the plot if this had been explained in the movie itself: doing so, the viewer would have had an idea of the strategic course the separatist forces were taking. An unlikeliness to the scene has to do with the scale of the space battle. In approaching the capital of the known universe, you do either of two things:

 

1. You want to capture the leader (as the movie states). You normally do this by inserting a highly specialised task force that goes in and out quickly and unnoticed until it's too late. You don't, however, put forth a fleet that is either capable of competing with the planet's forces and fleet or just too small to do so, knowing you'll lose it in advance.
 
2. You conquer the planet (as the size of the separatist fleet suggests they should have done). If you have a fleet big enough for the space battle we saw in the movie, then why not have troop transports just behind and conquer the entire planet? Why satisfy yourself by capturing their leader?

Moving on, then, I wonder how it is possible for the jedi to conclude that Palpatine has to relinguish his emergency mandate, whereas they themselves are, as it seems, fully authorised to send clone forces to Kashyyyk on their own. Who was the supreme commander of the clone forces: Palpatine or the Jedi Council? Nowhere, in any movie, is it explained satisfactorily how the positions of Palpatine and the jedi council relate to each other. The only thing the movie states is that Palpatine is authorised to prolong the war and that the council can autonomously send forces into war.

Following through on this: how is it possible that the jedi council accepts a jedi knight to sit in on the council solely by mandate of senator Palpatine?! First of all, it would seem much more likely for the council to meet in a periodic war council with Palpatine in person. Secondly, if Palpatine were to send a delegate, how is it possible for the jedi to accept that he sends one of their own knights? It would seem much more credible if Palpatine had sent a political delegate. There may be reason to explain this, however, the movie lacks these.

 

A third unexplained thing... Yoda says he has good ties with the Wookiees... How? Why? The council says that they can't afford to lose Kashyyyk... Why? What's so important about Kashyyyk?

 

A third argument for lack of plot is that Kenobi states twice that he regards Anakin as his brother. Not any of the three prequels shows how this bond came to be or how this friendship develops. I find this to be a great hole in the storyline. If Kenobi felt this way, then, surely, Anakin must have felt something mutual... But no, Anakin rather easily betrays his 'brother' and walks over to the dark side. We don't see any of the real struggle that must have been going on inside Anakin.

Another example of this lack of struggle is his cnversation with his other friend, Palpatine, who rather calmly states that he is the big bad Sith Lord. Anakin accepts this just as calmly, reports him to Windu just as calmly and then all of a sudden decides he has to save Palpatine. Moreover, Anakin states clearly that it is not according to the code to kill Palpatine. So, in effect, he's done nothing wrong by attacking Mace. However, after he's attacked Mace and Palpatine killed Mace, Anakin gives over to Palpatine as if his concept of following the jedi code has plunged him into darkness... How odd...

 

A last argument is, of course, General Grievous (who featured as a laughing stock to say the least). Where did he come from? If he was this big bad general, then why didn't we hear from him before or at least hear some mention about him in the movie about past feats? The answer of course, is because there weren't any. He was made up on the spot. The making of Episode III special clearly shows this as Lucas asks a team of designers to give him a new bad guy for Revenge of the Sith. He wasn't conceived before Episode III.

 

A shimmer of light for the saga, then: Palpatine tells Anakin that Darth Plagueis the Wise was able to form life from midichlorians... Is Lucas suggesting that Anakin was conceived by Plagueis?

[Skynxnex]

Some of your points Scathane I want to point out were addressed in the novel or the cartoon.

 

For example, in the novel I think it was hinted that Dooku was to be given amnesty and the blame for the atrocities such as Base Delta Zeroing planets would be blamed on General Grievous since he is the overall military commander. Dooku was also under orders on the ship not to kill Anakin, the goal was for him and Palpatine to turn Anakin to the darkside. Unfortunately, Dooku didnt realise until the end there that Palpatine was tired of Dooku and wanted him gone. Thats why when Palpatine orders Anakin to kill him Dooku looks at him with this look of betrayal.

 

I will admit though that unless you read the novel or saw much of the cartoon you wouldnt understand what all was going on.

[Grand_Admiral_Thrawn]

I think that we should also remember that much of the "incompitence" on the part of both factions can be chalked up to Palpatine. The fleet in the opening sequence was used in place of a tactical strike team to capture the chanceller because Palpatine didn't really want to be captured, but he had to make it look like the CIS gave a good effort. This might also explain the lack f tactics. Blasting in and out makes more sense speed wise than engaging in a tactical battle.

 

I think that's the trouble with the way the plot was organized. Wereally don't know how much of what happens was at the orders of Palpatine/Sidious.

[Guest Scathane]

Some of your points Scathane I want to point out were addressed in the novel or the cartoon.

That may be so, but I am criticising the movie, not the novel or something else. It's plain nonsense to say the novel explains certain things. Moreover, it's not common practice. Peter Jackson, for instance, wouldn't have been able to say that the novelisation of LotR explained certain things, had his movies received bad criticism.

 

Dooku was also under orders on the ship not to kill Anakin, the goal was for him and Palpatine to turn Anakin to the darkside. Unfortunately, Dooku didnt realise until the end there that Palpatine was tired of Dooku and wanted him gone. Thats why when Palpatine orders Anakin to kill him Dooku looks at him with this look of betrayal.

Even so, this seems strange when even jedi seem to be aware of the fact that there are never more than two sith... Consider Yoda's remark in TPM. In this light, it would have been more logical to Dooku to have been given the assignment of killing Anakin.

 

I will admit though that unless you read the novel or saw much of the cartoon you wouldnt understand what all was going on.

Which is a bad argument for a movie. Imagine how you would have reacted if other movies would've had this, such as Jurassic Park, Silence of the Lambs, The Quiet American etc.

 

I think that we should also remember that much of the "incompitence" on the part of both factions can be chalked up to Palpatine. The fleet in the opening sequence was used in place of a tactical strike team to capture the chanceller because Palpatine didn't really want to be captured, but he had to make it look like the CIS gave a good effort. This might also explain the lack f tactics. Blasting in and out makes more sense speed wise than engaging in a tactical battle.

Even so, for a general as allegedly notorious as Grievous, it's strange that he agreed to this. Turning up with a fleet just small enough to lose the battle is sheer stupidity; anyone could have guessed something strange was up...

 

If Palpatine wanted his capture to be sabotaged, he could easily have directed a strike action against one specialised vessel.

 

I think that's the trouble with the way the plot was organized. Wereally don't know how much of what happens was at the orders of Palpatine/Sidious.

Which is exactly my main point of criticism: the movie doesn't give the viewer enough insight in the deeper motives...

[Skynxnex]

Some of your points Scathane I want to point out were addressed in the novel or the cartoon.

That may be so, but I am criticising the movie, not the novel or something else. It's plain nonsense to say the novel explains certain things. Moreover, it's not common practice. Peter Jackson, for instance, wouldn't have been able to say that the novelisation of LotR explained certain things, had his movies received bad criticism.

 

 

 

Well, some people when I left the theater after seeing the Fellowship of the Ring went and said, "Is that it?". Some people didnt read the book it seems and therefore didnt understand what all was going on. Also, I will admit there were somethings that Jackson did which I didnt like, I have read the books numerous times and he split the movies rather oddly. Shelob for instance and a few other factors which were odd. Oh, the sword which cut Sauron, that sword was already reforged but in Return of the King they make a big deal out of making it again.

 

Dooku was also under orders on the ship not to kill Anakin, the goal was for him and Palpatine to turn Anakin to the darkside. Unfortunately, Dooku didnt realise until the end there that Palpatine was tired of Dooku and wanted him gone. Thats why when Palpatine orders Anakin to kill him Dooku looks at him with this look of betrayal.

Even so, this seems strange when even jedi seem to be aware of the fact that there are never more than two sith... Consider Yoda's remark in TPM. In this light, it would have been more logical to Dooku to have been given the assignment of killing Anakin.

 

Well you have to remember, the Jedi dont know much about the Sith. Also, see that seems logical to you but not to me. Palpatine and Dooku know how logical it would be to get Anakin to turn. In the novel again, one of the reasons why Palpatine was kidnapped was because Dooku was going to be given amnesty. The Empire would still get formed and supposedly Dooku was to help train darkjedi. Anakin was supposed to be one of those dark jedi. Dooku didnt realize that Palpatine was in fact going to supplant Darth Tyranus with Darth Vader. Again I refer to the novels, in one of them about the clone wars, Dooku orders General Grievous to not harm the Younglings. Why not? Because Dooku knows in the future the war will be over and he wants to train the new dark jedi.

 

I will admit though that unless you read the novel or saw much of the cartoon you wouldnt understand what all was going on.

Which is a bad argument for a movie. Imagine how you would have reacted if other movies would've had this, such as Jurassic Park, Silence of the Lambs, The Quiet American etc.

 

 

Unfortunately, I do think it is a bad argument but you have to remember. The Clone Wars cartoons came out for a reason. They filled in the gaps between Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith. In fact the cartoons literally ended where Revenge of the Sith starts up. It was part of Lucas' effort to sort of create this epic saga. I will say this though, a book helps to fill in gaps in terms of what we saw on screen and what is actually happening. We can for instance get into a characters mind and see what they are thinking. This is why for instance I know that Mace didnt really win when he and Palps were fighting. He wasnt even sensing Darth Sidious' fear but Anakin's. Sidious KNEW he wouldnt die or lose.

 

I think that we should also remember that much of the "incompitence" on the part of both factions can be chalked up to Palpatine. The fleet in the opening sequence was used in place of a tactical strike team to capture the chanceller because Palpatine didn't really want to be captured, but he had to make it look like the CIS gave a good effort. This might also explain the lack f tactics. Blasting in and out makes more sense speed wise than engaging in a tactical battle.

Even so, for a general as allegedly notorious as Grievous, it's strange that he agreed to this. Turning up with a fleet just small enough to lose the battle is sheer stupidity; anyone could have guessed something strange was up...

 

Grievous had no choice really. In the cartoon at the end he was ordered by Sidious to launch an attack on the Republic capital. This is also the result of a new Separatist offensive which sends the Republic reeling. In a way it does make sense, if by capturing him they can force a negotiation or a diplomatic move they can end the war. The only thing is, Palps again knew which way he wanted the war to go. See, he had to make the repuhlic think they were going to lose otherwise he couldnt get more power voted to him and so on.

 

If Palpatine wanted his capture to be sabotaged, he could easily have directed a strike action against one specialised vessel.

 

I am not sure I understand this part.

 

I think that's the trouble with the way the plot was organized. Wereally don't know how much of what happens was at the orders of Palpatine/Sidious.

Which is exactly my main point of criticism: the movie doesn't give the viewer enough insight in the deeper motives...

 

And I agree, also it should be noted that in an interview...and the link escapes my memory at the moment, but in this interview someone asked Lucas about this Darth Plagueis who was some kind of super powerful Sith Lord about his power to use the midichlorians to create life. And Lucas said he intentionally left it vague for us the audience to figure out on our own. Was Anakin created by Plagueis? Or was it something that Palpatine was just saying. I am inclined to think that maybe Plagueis did create him. In the movie Palpatine admits he doesnt have the power like his mentor did, but together he and Anakin could discover it on their own. Or something to that effect.

[Guest Scathane]

Well, some people when I left the theater after seeing the Fellowship of the Ring went and said, "Is that it?". Some people didnt read the book it seems and therefore didnt understand what all was going on.

Agreed, but that didn't make the movies lack plot to the extent that they also lacked depth in the way the SW prequels do.

 

Also, I will admit there were somethings that Jackson did which I didnt like, I have read the books numerous times and he split the movies rather oddly.

Which hardly has anything to do with plot, depth or lack thereof. Moreover, I suggest you read the saga yet another time, because:

 

Oh, the sword which cut Sauron, that sword was already reforged but in Return of the King they make a big deal out of making it again.

The sword was reforged in the books as well:

 

"And here in the house of Elrond more shall be made clear to you," said Aragorn, standing up. He cast his sword upon the table that stood before Elrond, and the blade was in two pieces. "Here is the Sword that was Broken!" he said.
 
The Lord of the Rings - The Fellowship of the Ring, Book Two, II: The Council of Elrond by J.R.R. Tolkien, HarpersCollinsPublishers 1991; pages 263 & 264
 
The sword of Elendil was forged anew by Elvish smiths, and on its blade was traced a device of seven stars set between the crescent Moon and the rayed Sun, and about them was written many runes; for Aragorn, son of Arathorn was going to war upon the marches of Mordor. Very bright was that sword when it was made whole again; the light of the sun shone redly in it, and the light of the moon shone cold, and its edge was hard and keen. And Aragorn gave it a new name and called it Andúril, Flame of the West.
 
The Lord of the Rings - The Fellowship of the Ring, Book Two, III: The Ring goes South by J.R.R. Tolkien, HarpersCollinsPublishers 1991; page 294

Again I refer to the novels, in one of them about the clone wars

And, again, I point out that my criticism is directed towards the movie, not towards the novel.

 

Unfortunately, I do think it is a bad argument but you have to remember. The Clone Wars cartoons came out for a reason. They filled in the gaps between Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith. In fact the cartoons literally ended where Revenge of the Sith starts up. It was part of Lucas' effort to sort of create this epic saga.

True, but none of the other movies has an animated bridge and I’m still of the opinion that one should be able to view the six movies as an independent story. Moreover, I personally thinks that an animated series like Clone Wars decimates the epicness of the saga, rather than add to it.

 

Grievous had no choice really. In the cartoon at the end he was ordered by Sidious to launch an attack on the Republic capital. This is also the result of a new Separatist offensive which sends the Republic reeling. In a way it does make sense, if by capturing him they can force a negotiation or a diplomatic move they can end the war. The only thing is, Palps again knew which way he wanted the war to go. See, he had to make the repuhlic think they were going to lose otherwise he couldnt get more power voted to him and so on.

Well duh! But was Grievous in fact ordered by Sidious to launch an attack on Coruscant with a fleet small enough to lose the battle and to make people think that you really had other plans than capturing the senator?

 

I am not sure I understand this part.

Palpatine could have sent Grievous in a specialized commando vessel which is better designed to a abduction mission. He could then easily have leaked information to the Jedi, who would have sent two tyo rescue Palpatine. Capice?