No, wrong Sith lord. I'm talking the guy on yavin, thus a gijillion-year-old Sith Lord. And all living things except uzhan Vong exist in the force (Why the hell the Yuzhan Vong don't is anyone's guess... Unless it says why later in the NJO books... Really have to get past Dark journey...). Anyway, if you see someone and they don't exist in the force, then they are either A) a holo or B) not really there. You can detect non-force-users, but you can't detect people who hide themselves in the force. See, if you can't sense them in the force, then you know that they're wrapping it around themselves. See? Or can you at least pretend to see so that I can finally say "See, look, I won an argument with somebody, see?"

What does Exar Kun Have to do with the discussion?

 

Closing down one's force presence doesn't make you invisible to the force it just makes it seem as if you don't Draw on the force. ie. Not a force user.

 

I was using the Jensaarai as an example because because they are roughly on par with Corran's skill. I didn't say anything about the Ancient dead Sith Lord, but if you wan't me to go into it...

 

Yavin is full of life of all kinds that don't draw on the force like a jedi does. If Corran closes down his presence in the force he shows up as just another life form to the sort of low strength passive detection that Kun used to keep an eye on things when he wasn't busy.

 

Using the same technique Luke had shown Streen to shield his mind against picking up the thoughts of others, I was keeping my presence within the Force as undetectable as I could.

(Not 100% perfect, but effective.)

I retreated to the center of the small courtyard, then unveiled my presence. I pushed my sphere of responsibility out, but had barely gotten it two meters before Kun appeared and swallowed my reflection in the obsidian stones of the pedestal.

( He's awake! )

 

So, as the Jensaarai used the force to try and find him he appeared as just another human on the street. When he drew on the force durring a battle against Rogue Squadron though, the Jensaarai immedately detected him. Just they wern't powerfull enough to tell exactally where he was.

 

Palpatine or Vader would have been powerfull enough to track down somone that had shown themselves or were actively using the force.

 

( Does anyone else think this is getting off topic? lol )

 

For the NJO stuff, I'm fairly certain it had something to do with the evil 1999 invention of Midichlorians. George Lucas invented them so that the Vong could be stripped of them by their living homeworld, rendering them invsible to the force.

Which is stupid as far as I'm concerned. But it's GL's decision to make.

 

( You can pick up a Rock with the force. It's not alive! It doesn't have Midi-chlorians, but you can still pick it up. The Vong are almost a negateve to the Force as far as regular Jedi are concerned. The midi's just don't explain the whole thing adaquately. Lucas Books really dropped the ball on that one. )

I had best stop now. I'm getting Prequel-Rage.

No, no, see, a human still stands out distinctly. If you read anything that has to do with the force, like the Young Jedi Knight books (Yeah, I was young when I read them) you will see creatures identified through the force. Thus if you draw the force around you so that it doesn't expand, you cannot be detected through the force, which makes you seem to not be there.

Hmm... Ok. I never read the Young Jedi Knights series.

 

That does seem out of place witht he rest of the stuff I've read over the years but then again the writers could have been forced by GL to re-invent how the force works again.

 

Different writers have different ways of portraying things. This type of skill was never really used in the NJO books so I don't know as much about it as I might. If you could post some quotes that'd be cool.

 

Even though it's now completely off topic.

In a fight to the death, I'm going to have to give it to Palpy. When they were on the floating platforms, I think it was obviously Palpy who had the upperhand. He was pushing forward with the force while Yoda was falling back. Perhaps if they were in the Geonosian Arena, Yoda might win, but we have to take it as one of Palpy's strengths that he's smart enough to get to advantageous ground (Anakin can tell you all about how important the high ground is). Even if they're exactly tied in power, heck, even if Yoda IS a little stronger, Palpy is a better strategist, can see the future, AND isnt afraid to fight dirty. I can't see him losing that battle.

 

On another note, this conversation leads me to an interesting thought: looking at the Dooku Vs. Yoda battle in Ep.2, I'm led to believe that Dooku could have won if he hadnt been worn down by Ani and Obi. Therefore, if Yoda is about as strong as Palpy and a fresh Dooku could be as strong as Yoda, then in a fight, Dooku might actually stand a chance against Palpy. He is, after all, the only other guy in the movies we see using Force Lighting! Maybe thats one of the reasons Palpy had him killed by Anakin. He didn't want to be usurped by his apprentice, so why not get good, loyal, Anakin to take Dooku's place? Well, he was good and loyal until the shaft thing....

 

Anyway, back to the regular topic

I dunno, I always thought that Episode two was a load of ****, ****, ****, ****, ****, and more ****, which makes me disregaurd everything mentioned (Size matters not. Does that sound familiar, Yoda?!?!?!?!?) So I would have to say that Yoda should have kicked Dooku's ass from Geonosis to Adumar and back again.

Palpatine is stronger. the sith lord is always stronger than any 1 jedi. hands down. and the fact that he "fights dirty" makes no difference. if your fighting to the death, you fight to win.

I agree. Evil is a very powerful force to be reckoned with. Palpy would crush Yoda like a green grape from your grocer's produce section.

I'd still remain with the movie's POV. None is more powerful than the other.

Palpy would crush Yoda like a green grape from your grocer's produce section.

 

I bow to your masterful use of the English language.

We have a rather interessting tie here.

11 for each of the poll possibilities.

It seems that the Emperor has now taken the lead. I have a feeling that we're nearing the end of this race. Fortunately the right person is winning

I dont know. I was a fool and kept it as an on-going poll. If only it could stop now, with the Supreme Galatic Emperor as the inevitable winner...

But Windu is stronger than the emperor, according to the movie. He should have killed the emperor, if Anakin did not appear.

Palpatine was counting on Anakin to come in just at that moment, giving him the final bit of "evidence" that the Jedi were trying to take over. I'm more than confident that the Emperor could have squashed Windu. I think it was stated in Episode II that Yoda was the strongest power wise, where Windu was the most skilled with a lightsaber... I might have that backwards.

Something I will add, Palpatine and his various followers remained utterly hidden and completely unoticed as their schemes orchestraited the Republic's demise, and may I add the Jedi Knights. The art of subtefuge was strong with Palpatine. Against an entire order of force-sensitive Jedi Knights, it was the Sith who triamphed, there being but two (at the best of times). So who is ultimately 'stronger?' Yoda admits 'all is obscured by ty the dark-side,' but with Mace Window ultimately does nothing about this instinct. Palpatine, in the meantime orchestrates a conflict in an excuse to create a military machine capable of not just taking out the Jedi, but being seeing to do so by ending the conflict he engineered with an Empire of peace and stability. Who is the genius? He ends up ruling the galaxy, and Yoda, as muttered I did earlier, ends up living in a swamp probably watching fireflies in the evening for amuzement, whilst twitching his ears.

Jahled wrote:

 

... Yoda, as muttered I did earlier, ends up living in a swamp probably watching fireflies in the evening for amuzement, whilst twitching his ears.

 

But I bet his stress levels were very low! Without the shackles of galatic responsibility, he was free to meditate and expand(?) his knowledge of the Force. And since the Emperor, Darth Vader or any of the Empire's minions could never find him, he could just sit back, sip his drink, eat a couple of bugs and watch the sunrise/sunset (whichever he preferred). After personally having a high level stressful position for years, it's nice sometimes just sitting back and being a "peon" .

He has a point there. Where Yoda dies of natural causes, Palpy gets chucked down a shaft where he explodes, and Vader get's fried to Death by his own master... sort of. Maybe Yoda had a forshadowing of the future and knew of the twins, or something? Maybe he knew that he was not the one who was to end the war or something and held back.

Bah! The fact is that if Yoda and Palpy were trapped in the Thunderdome (two men enter, one man leaves!), then Palpy would have fried Yoda against the wall until he was a pile of wilted lettuce.

If you're speaking of the same Thunderdome a la Mad Max, then you're woefully wrong .

...he could just sit back, sip his drink, eat a couple of bugs and watch the sunrise/sunset (whichever he preferred).

Do you think you could see the sun set and rise through the mist on Dagobah?

Ah, but I do refer to such a place! Though it could have been worse. I could have mentioned a scenario where they are dueling to the death on Waterworld...

/me shudders. You leave Sci Fi channel original movies out of this! Next thing we know "Dark Light" comes into play, or some other ridiculously innacurate Science Fiction movie! Really, who watches the ones that have such crappy acting, terrible lines, and messed up physics engines in the primarily digital fight scenes? Oh, wait a second... My question personally is when Yoda starts talking backwards... he speaks with inconsistancy- I think he has good speach in episode two, but backwards in episode one.

who watches the ones that have such crappy acting, terrible lines, and messed up physics engines in the primarily digital fight scenes?

That kinda film can actually be rather amusing to watch. Example Skeeter so ridiculously bad that its funny.

Umm, no, see I was making fun of the "Star Wars" movies, sort of there.