1st: WTF? First of all, I don't consider an article in Time to be hard science. And even if Ray Blanchard did publish in a journal this theories, that does not make them facts. And what is the big deal that the science types and the religious types differ in oppinion on this. Is that a big suprise? I think not. It is that way with many things. Science can prove it and draw a picture to show them, but they still do not want to believe it. So why waste the effort on trying to drill it into thier heads, IMO. Agreed. 2nd: Another WTF here. This is not true. Urban Legend and corporate BS Evolution is random and unperdictable. Thats what makes it great! I understand that... I never said it did... I was merely making the point that the need for finding meaning in the things we study is a human trait. For religious people as well as scientific people. Think along these lines: how far would general scientific research have been today if the human race had never felt the need to find meaning to the world around it? The human race would not be where it is today. Which may have been a good thing....People would still die at young ages and would not live to be an average age of 75 (or whatever it is). The planet most likely would not be over populated. Science has gotten us where we are today. Not religion. So, aside fro emotions, are there any other points/questions to discuss? I saw this survey the other day which maybe of interest to this topic: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4648598.stm And some other numbers: Take Genesis literally = "creationism": USA: 45% UK: 22% Think God guided evolution = intelligent design: USA: 25% UK: 17% Favor godless evolution: USA: 12% UK: 48% "Remember that just 200 years ago a similar survey would have found a great majority, perhaps nearly all, in both countries taking the Bible literally. In all other western nations creationism has suffered severe losses to the point that no majority supports Genesis, pure selective evolution is usually accepted by nearly half the population, and large majorities accept human descent from apes and other animals. This is a historically remarkable accomplishment in a western world where only a quarter of the population has college degrees, and about 6 in 10 believe in some aspect of the paranormal (ESP, astrology, alien abductors, Bush is a competent, honest president)." ~ Greg Paul