Cool Rebellion Nuances

[Danish]

I just edited Thrawn's leadership to 200. With the emperor's throne effect that becomes 300. At this leadership I discovered a subtle yet intriguing effect. Actually the rebels had attacked Coruscant. With their @!&*ed fighters they blew away my star destroyer and with no planetary defenses I was literally caught with my pants down! So they assaulted me and I'd forgot to assign a general. Five of my six stormies and a few army regs were slaughtered. Now the way the AI assaults you is once per day. Then it repeats the next day. So I decided to take a look at what was left. One measly stormtrooper regiment. After that his highness was off to boot camp. And then I saw Thrawn sitting around doing nothing. I had nothing to lose so I made him general. Now the troop stats are the same as vanilla rebellion both for the rebels and the imps. Next turn general Thrawn's leadership proved so effective that an entire buttload of assaulting troops met their maker. I mean five rebel armies and three fleet regs were pulverized by a measly storm reg. Now that's quality leadership. Like I said there were no system defenses other than the lone stormy. Then the rebels repeated this stunt again and again, every time attacking with 8+ regs and the lone stormy duked it out and lived to tell the tale. I didn't have any training facilities and wasn't in a position to train more troops. I actually lasted 200+ days as the rebels relentlessly assaulted Coruscant to no avail. Bless that Thrawn and his outstanding leadership. Coruscant would've been sacked without it.

If you have an exact formula of how leadership affects the three roles of admiral, general and commander feel free to post it.

[Danish]

I decided to tweak the GenCore shield energy to give assualting ships more of a chance. The way I figured was to make it 16. This way two victories with two bombers each could just crack this nut. A very doable thing if you happen on two VSD's in the same sector. Building bombers and dragging a victory to the relevant fleet's easier than building one right where you need it. So I planned to go on a rampage bombing all those pesky loner GenCores. But there was a nuance the emperor hadn't foreseen. The dreaded Y-wing. What's it for anyway you ask. This: the rebels gathered an escort carrier with 3 Y-wings(6 bomb value), 3 Xings(3 b-value), dreadnought with an x-wing escort(3 b-value) and 5 corvettes(5 b-value) for a total fleet bombardment value of 17. Then they attacked one of my systems with a shield and 8 army regs. Remember the shield energy is now 16. The rebel fleet just had an edge. So they bombard me and wadda'ya know they got an army reg! Next day another bombardment and another regiment bit the dust. I don't know about you guys but I like this sort of cat and mouse. It revitalizes the game experience and lets me appreciate where all the programming effort into making the AI went. It seems the AI can calculate just how much punch it needs in a fleet to crack open a tough nut, in this case a shielded planet.

[Danish]

People often complain how the empire lacks sufficient diplomats. The answer is that it doen't need many. It rules through fear of force where acts acts of diplomacy may often be synonymous with intimidation. I found Halowan as a neutral with three shipyards. I had no diplomats in sector and I couldn't afford to pass up the opportunity. So what the hey, I landed some troops. Lost a reg to an LNR. Now the garrison needed was 8 and I had only 5 troops on planet. Needless to say it went into uprising. I could only shift two more troops from nearby garrisons. So I had Klev and Screed on the assaulting fleet perform a Subdue Uprising. After 8 days the uprising ended and the garrison requirement was 4. Then I chanced a look at the popular rating. It had actually moved to halfway. Then I realized something. Here was an indirect way to conduct diplomacy. So I naughtily moved 4 regs to the orbiting fleet and the g-requirement jumps to 8 again but the PR stays put. So i move the regs back on system and Subdue again. In ten days they've regained control with a new garrison req. of only 2. So I rinse and repeat and pretty soon no garrison requirement whatsoever and PR bar to reflect that. So I learned to use two characters with high leadership as a substitute for one diplomat. Difference is its faster, you gain leadership points that are hard to raise otherwise. High leadership provides wonderful bonuses in command positions. The trick is to have one less than the garrison req. of troops in position. Then the mission proceeds fast enough. Also as the empire, earn two leadership points and get one free, courtesy the imperial throne effect. Looks like the sneak's got an eye on you after all. So with troops, intimidating generals and a fleet to deploy them you'll all set to go. Hang diplomacy!

[Danish]

Using RebEd to boost tractor range I found that tractors are in fact used against fighters. Coupling two ISD's and "surrounding" the fighters with double lon-ranged tractors you can 'hold' the pesky vermin in place and deal the thrashing they deserve. Also with sufficient range retreating ships are locked from turning their facing. That means even near the hyperspace jump point on the tactical map a ship caught in a tractor can't escape. Makes fights a little fairer and a lot more interesting. Remember rebel cruisers can gang up on an ISD and do the same, so be careful.

[Slocket]

Interesting find! Anthing to spice up the game and AI is always cool.

[budious]

People often complain how the empire lacks sufficient diplomats.

 

The secret is that if Emperor is on Coruscant then all Imperials have 50% leadership bonus, use it to incite uprising missions in same galaxy where your agents are trying to turn neutral or strengthen Imperial loyal planets. The two missions both influence diplomacy and planets within the same galaxy likewise influence each other, you can easy chain a few missions together across planets which eventually create a chain reaction in which several planets change faction on a single turn. Diplomacy requires a high diplomacy and incite uprising requires high leadership, both mission types will influence diplomacy, just think of the other as negative diplomacy.

[Slocket]

It is a bit odd that the Alliance is not better at "Incite Uprising" mission than the Imperials.

 

After all, the Alliance faction are the 'rebels' and should be very good at inciting a rebellion by definition.

 

I would like to change that so it is (for the Remake). Rebels are good at diplomacy (already are) and "Incite Uprising Bonus" as long as they have their HQ intact.

 

The Imperials would be good at military ways of subduing an uprising. Why waste words when you got a big stick?

[Master_Xan]

That's a cool way to do diplomacy! I'll have to give it a whirl in my next game.

 

My trick for Imperial diplomacy is using my big stick. Bombard a planet's defenses, then leave. Often it will slightly increase in diplomacy, to your advantage. Risky unless you have command staff though; otherwise you're more likely to hit a mine and loose influence than you are to gain it.

 

Also, if you fight a really large space battle, the systems in that sector will be affected. Remember, this is only a factor in large battles. I think it's based on how much damage you do to their forces, vs. how much you take yourself. So even if you loose, if your kill ratio is good enough (based upon the AI value of the units involved, not on straight-up number of losses), then you still get the diplomacy boost. If your kill ratio was too poor in a large battle, you loose influence.

 

Of course, the simplest way is to find a planet which requires a garrison. Bombard the planet, it will go neutral or switch sides... and every other system in the sector will also be affected.

 

Here's another interesting tidbit: it's much harder to assassinate than abduct. Which makes no sense whatsoever. So if I have a bunch of characters I've captured but want dead, I put them all on something quick and fairly weak (like an assault transport) and send it into the biggest nest of enemies I know of. When the ship blows up, there is a chance the captured personnel on board will be killed. Particularly effective in killing characters with low combat ratings. I'm not sure, but I *think* the speed at which the ship is destroyed also plays a part in their chances of death.

 

I've also noticed a few ways to cheat. The AI is set up to build infrastructure first, units second. If you bomb the snot out of a planet or two, the AI will use a good junk of resources rebuilding; this can be a significant delay in their shipbuilding programs if you bomb enough planets. Of course, it also wreaks their production, too.

 

Another way to cheat is to bombard neutral planets to slag. Obviously, you do this only in a sector you don't want; it will turn the sector over to the enemy, but as you bombard each planet (or invade and scrap for a resource bonus before abandoning the planet), the AI will spend all their resources on building up their new systems... which means they aren't building many ships, and a great deal of their personnel will be deployed to the new sector (which you are ignoring). Very handy to distract them for a couple hundred days. Or you can pick off personnel as they arrive in sector, which also lures their ships there where you can destroy them instead of hunt them down. Also handy to get their marauding fleets to leave your systems alone.

[Danish]

You guys probably know this already but I only just found out: there is a way to increase the net maintenance a galaxy can provide. Just think of a value that you think a mine-refinery pair 'should' provide. Say instead of fifty you want it to produce five hundred maintenance. You can do that. Just halve this number and, using rebed, put in a 'negative' value for the maintenance used by the mine and refinery. So I put 250 in the mine maintenance field and, placing the cursor on the left, I added the negative sign. Hit Ok. Then re-enter the facility tab and repeat for the refinery. Start rebellion and voila! Instant maintenance. Can you say unlimited power !

Anyways I also found that if you got too greedy and set the unit maintenance too high the net value becomes too large and the MP counter reads 'MAX'. I found it interesting; the programmers actually anticipated the emperor using the dark side to make mines and refineries produce more MP. Hey Mon Mothma can do it too!

So if you do set up your galaxy like this maintenance ceases to be an issue and raw materials finally become more important. Guess its time to crank up those production rates to one!

As a final thought, its hard to be creative with using this. One idea is to make mines produce three or four times as much MP as refineries. It gives you an incentive to develop those unused raw materials. Otherwise you might as well remove mines from the game, since refineries can do the same. I thought of making the bombardment for mines 10, making them immune to bombardment. That way your hard work doesn't get wrecked. Like make refineries cheap but mines really expensive. Then first you develop your economy using refineries, and then gradually phase them out in favor of mines. Or just make both of them really expensive (high RM) . That way the core systems finally mean what they ought to. Pre-existing infrastructure for the empire that is hard for the rebels to compete with. Let them run. They'll soon starve, since it'll take forever to set up new mines and refineries. They'll have to scavenge for that occassional colonized world in the outer rim bringing meaning to their diplomats. That's why I now set the hyperdrive of the correlian corvette at 60. Hey its supposed to be a blockade runner. Like in the movies, its supposed to carry personnel. Han can't be the chauffeur all the time.

[Danish]

Tractor power works a bit wierdly. I've found these values using rebed on an ISD and corellian corvy.

 

ISD tractor Sublight engine rating

2 ---------------------------------- 5

3 ---------------------------------- 9

4 --------------------------------- 12

5 --------------------------------- 16

6 --------------------------------- 21

 

This means that when the ISD tractor power is set to 2 it can stop the corvette with a SLE of 5 but not 6. Also note that sometimes the tactical display shows no engine power but the ship does still move, be it ever so slowly. Anything less will bring the ship to a dead halt. Note that ships thoroughly under the power of a tractor (dead stop) cannot escape into hyperspace! Ships only slowed down can. I've increased the tractor range of the ISD to 120. This way two of them can arrest a corvette and prevent escape of atleast one ship. The rebels tend to flee in the face of imperial might. Use their cowardice against them. If they'd fought it out atleast they'd've taken some ships with them. Ofcourse carriers and the like don't stand a chance against even a single ISD so it might not be such a great idea after all.

Any idea on how the tractor power is calculated is appreciated and comments are welcome.

[Slocket]

Well my post just went into cyberspace hell.

 

Simply Speed is slowed downed linearly by the tractor power. Corvette is 6. ISD is 3 for tractor. Thus one would slow it down to 3. Two ISD would stop one exactly.

[budious]

Well my post just went into cyberspace hell.

 

Simply Speed is slowed downed linearly by the tractor power. Corvette is 6. ISD is 3 for tractor. Thus one would slow it down to 3. Two ISD would stop one exactly.

 

Quite correct, I used to do this often. Easiest way to demonstrate a ship hold is, by your example, place the two ISDs into a taskforce. Set the taskforce formation to surround (as opposed to standoff) and target the corvette. The ISDs will position themselves equally off each side of the corvette catching in between and you'll see a blue tractor bubble engulf the ship. It will be froze in place and the ISDs will pummel it into space dust.

[Danish]

There is a fun way to play rebellion that most players overlook (yes even against the AI). And that is political manipulation. The incite uprising mission. Usually when one tries to win over a planet via diplomacy it takes quite a while (in the neighbourhood of 30 - 50 days) even with a high diplomacy skill. And that's just for neutrals. You want an enemy planet you gotta conquer it. Then you have to diplomacize that solid bar, all the way to your colour. You're looking at tying up your character for 75 - 100 days. Yet there is another way to perform this 'diplomacy'. Try this out step by step, exactly as described.

 

1. Gather two to six characters with high leadership. Two is fine but it goes considerably quicker with more.

2. Take over the desired planet as you normally would. If it was entirely in the other side's favour you'll have a garrison of six troops.

3. Now move one, I repeat one, troop back onto the assaulting fleet. It'll go into uprising. The garrison requirement will read twelve. Don't panic.

4. Now assemble a subdue uprising mission with two to six high leadership characters. Launch.

5. Note the counter. Within 8 - 16 days the popular rating will suddenly jump a small but definite amount in your favor. The uprising will end.

6. Open the troops tab. The garrison requirement is now 5.

7. Rinse and repeat. Each time you move one troop off and your team's effort brings the system back in line.

8. Eventually you only need one troop for garrison. Now diplomacize.

 

Sometimes the team is so effective you don't even need diplomacy. Particularly if there is other activity in the sector. This will have the planet under your control in roughly half the time as regular diplomacy. It also gives your non-diplomats something to do. This method is particularly useful for the empire as they tend to be short on diplomats. While one could theoretically use spec forces they tend not to work as well. Another thing worth pointing out is that its much easier for your subdue team to crush the uprising when they almost have enough troops to quell the insurrection. Its much harder when they lack the necessary troops. Its easier when your troops need just a little help from your officers. Ofcourse you could use the full garrsion requiement. And that would work, but then you don't get the political benefit. Think of it this way, when your planet needs just one more troop to put down the uprising your officers lend a helping hand by moving the political bar a tiny bit in your favour. Instead of supplying the missing regiment your personnel instead make your presence on the planet a bit more agreeable. If you try to put the uprising down with just a couple of troops this won't work. Even after a long whille. Infact the uprising will fester until it destroys your troops.

 

Returning to the topic of inciting insurrection, the game manual doesn't quite emphasize the value of decoy characters. While it states that the only attribute of value on such a mission is leadership that isn't entirely accurate. Let me explain. While leadership is definitely important, what most people don't realize is that this is politics we're talking about. The various troops and generals stationed on that system have a political effect on that system. Imperceptibly small but there nonetheless. Same goes for events elsewhere in the sector. Even parking a fleet in orbit has an effect. As does blowing away troops on an enemy planet (sectorwide). This complex interplay of variables is hard to understand or pin down. But its there. Here's my recommendation for successfully inciting an insurrection every time.

 

1. Choose a planet you desire. Many resources, facilities etc.

2. Assemble a team of two to six high leadership characters and two to four spy/combat types.

3. Can you gain control of the orbit over the planet? Prevents your guys getting caught by an enemy fleet. An espionage mission helps to find generals on the planet. Generals are dangerous to the health of your personnel. If not, that's fine.

4. Now launch a single massive incite mission. All the leaders in the primary and all the covers in the decoy.

5. Cross your fingers and take note of the clock. Your leaders will 'push' that popular sentiment bar ever so slowly in your favour and your covert guys will be busy murdering enemy troops.

6. Finally the system will turn. If you are in orbit you might just catch enemy personnel trying to flee.

 

Also note that there's a reason you're putting so many characters in the decoy (and it has to be characters not spec forces). While they prevent the real mission from being discovered as usual, they're also upto something else. While invisible they're actually helping kill off enemy troops. Maybe that's why this technique works so well. Troop destruction is politically favourable to your side. Just look at what a planetary bombardment can do. Combine that with simultaneous effort from high leadership types and it sets up a chain reaction that really swings public sentiment in your favor.

 

Some advice.

Kill/Abduct the general if you can. Makes this mission go way faster.

Save before sending the team. Your characters can and will get killed of there are many troops or a general.

Jedi are great decoys. Use them if you can.

[Danish]

I know most of you people know this already but I just thought I'd add this neat little tidbit for those who don't know. To trigger Jabba's Palace just use rebed to lower Han's stats to say Espionage 10 Combat 10, or whatever floats your boat. The bounty hunter's jump on him quicker than you can say sithsapwn. One can almost picture Han going, "Hey, its not my fault". And so it isn't. Nobody could predict the emperor would use the dark side to hamper Solo's abilities.