Star Wars Rebellion 2: Path to Power

[steel]

Announcement of a New Project

 

This is my announcement for my own Rebellion2 project. I tried for a while to join one of the other developers working on their own but either I dont get a response or it just wont work. I recently cut my hours back at work and retarted another University degree so first year subjects are so easy that I have plenty of free time to work on this. Most days I aim to put in at least 4 or 5 hours of work into the project.

 

I have been playing around in a few different environments to create this and have been steadily working on a design document for the last few weeks and going over my old game design

books to get some ideas on how to go about this. I tried out C++ with OGRE, Irrilicht and DarkBasic Pro, and recently started with C#/XNA which has been my final chosen platform. Although this restricts Games to being deployed on Windows, XNA is a very powerful API and I am concentrate more on the game and less on the low-level details. Even though I had to learn C# for it, it was pretty easy and very quick to learn

 

Community Involvement

I hope this will become a large part of my project. Anyone willing to help out is more than welcome to help.

 

Artwork: is my biggest problem as I have had very little experience with artwork. Good 3D Models and Textures, Nice looking planet textures. All help will be welcome

Programming: Anyone competent in C#/XNA welcome. Its pretty easy to learn as well

Design: Biggest help section I reckon. A good design will be the key to making this game work.

 

Which leads me to what I have gotten going so far. Set up a GameStateManagement section to swap between the different menus and game states. Got a nice GUI window system plugin that works a treat Menu works fine and I found a really cool sample to create a sun which will look really awesome in-game I am starting work on the world now.

 

Anyone wanting to exchange ideas:

Email: mijatovic@iinet.net.au

Xfire: steel86

 

Or simply post on the forums. I usually check here twice a day. thanks guys in advance for all help

Edited February 6, 2009 by steel

[steel]

Happiness cannot describe my first awesome sun cranking out Just finished it then. Needs some touchup but looks good.

This is officially the first piece I have created for the game rather than just working on the framework

[Evaders99]

Path to Power... sounds like a bad Star Trek movie

 

But sounds cool on the project. Best of luck

[Moribundus]

This is my announcement for my own Rebellion2 project. I tried for a while to join one of the other developers working on their own but either I dont get a response or it just wont work. I recently cut my hours back at work and retarted another University degree so first year subjects are so easy that I have plenty of free time to work on this. Most days I aim to put in at least 4 or 5 hours of work into the project.

 

I feel like a ghost now. Bah.

 

[rant]

Anyway this each-his-own thing is getting really insane. It seems we have enough interested people in this community, so why can't we work together? Is it ego, vanity, fear, arrogance, or simply a lack of communication. Do we want to make this game for ourselves of for the community (as we blatantly claim)? No doubt everyone has his answers, but imho this trend of solo-working is just dragging the credibility of any fan project down. Is this what we want?

 

This isn't meant just for you, but also for me, JanDeis, David Adas, Slocket and others, who are secretly working on their own comunity projects.

[/rant]

 

Btw. the link you posted is broken.

 

Good luck and stuff.

 

PS: Sorry for the rant, I hope it wasn't too harsh. It simply reflected my frustration over the lack of cooperation in this community around "Rebellion 2".

[steel]

I PM'd each of Slocket, JanDies, DavidAdas and you as well Moribundas.

 

Not sure if all my PM's went through or anything because only reply i got was from slocket. If you are interested, i would much rather work within a team.

 

And your not the only one who is frustrated by it. I saw 3 or 4 projects all being worked on, yet there would be much more progress if we were working together. I am not

the best coder in the world but I have a hell of a lot of free time at the moment, and am learning like crazy. Still got my CG books left from University plus an abundant

supply of online documentation.

 

The best part of having more than 1 person is getting multiple inputs on the design. Will only make for a better game.

 

MSN if you got it, we can have a chat and see if we can get this going: a_w_mijatovic@hotmail.com

Edited February 6, 2009 by steel

[Evaders99]

Everytime there's an Internet project, there's always going to be heads bumping

[steel]

By the way Evaders, MORE than open to names. Considering it a working title

[Moribundus]

Hmm, I didn't get any PM from you at all.

 

It's a pity Slocket wants to work alone, since he actually seems to know what he's doing (unlike some others ) JanDeis offered to help my project couple of times, but his attention span seem to be quite short and he also has a habit of not replying to emails.

 

Check out your "outbox" folder, if your messages are still stuck there, it means they haven't been delivered (or read?), if they are in the "sent" folder, they should be successfully received by the recipient.

 

I don't use MSN (I'm google user ), but I'll write you an email.

[DavidAdas]

Steel,

 

I'm afraid that you might have meant me. If you sent me a message I didn't get an email indicator for it. So if it was our project you meant, we'd be glad to have ya. Otherwise, good luck!

[steel]

I do have a couple sitting in my Outbox... Stoopid site

 

David, email me. See above for address

[Karpman]

I was always hoping someone would have a sexual relationship with rebellion 1 and make baby.

[Razzuria]

Hi, I've been playing Rebellion since it first came out. I forgot I had signed up before. I've just reinstalled Vista and was looking for d3drm.dll so I could play.

 

I see that people are still talking about making remakes of Rebellion, but after several years, none ever seem to gain too much progress. lets face it, people need salaries to work on a large undertaking. We can't just do it for fun, we have lives.

 

I'm a software engineering student (senior) and don't have too much time to contribute, but would love to get ahold of any existing designs you've got. I have experience with XNA and have a *partially* completed XNA remake of the classic game, Wing Commander: Armada. Since working on that project, I got too busy to ever go back and finish it. However, the training I've received since has shown me better design patterns to use for the game and I hope to someday redesign my implementation for it. My extensive knowledge of Rebellion's nuances combined with my XNA and general programming skills gives me hope that I could actually see a Rebellion 2.

 

Though I can't afford to put too much time into this project before summer, I may at least be able to review your design and offer suggestions for improvement. BTW, since you are new to C#, you might want to try using my C# tutorial (designed for users with at least some C+ experience). I'm not finished with the tutorial series, but should be by spring as this is an independent studies project for a class and I have to finish it by the end of March. The few people who have been testing the format seem to think it's good, so if you're interested, I could send you a copy. The online version is still in development along with the tutorials themselves, so the only way you can use it right now is if I email you a copy. If intereted, email me at razzuria@gmail.com.

 

Anywho, whether or not you're interested in my help, good luck with your project.

~Jason

[Razzuria]

Oh, I almost forgot.

 

I too have difficulty with artwork. My solution for Armada was to copy image files of marbles off of google's image search engine. Using these are pretty cool. Also, you might try to get ahold of the image map from the original Rebellion for world artwork.

 

I know that neither of these suggestions can remain in a distributable version of Rebellion2, but once you've got a working copy of the game using simple graphic sources, then you can find sponsors or graphic artists willing to work on new artwork. Besides, the development process goes in stages. Design a framework, add a simplified -- scaled down -- game engine, prove the concept with some cheap artwork, and Rebellion2 version 0.0.1 is complete. If you are unfamiliar with software numbering schemes, do some google investigation. Rember, nobody releases the first edition anyway.

 

That's just my 2 cents worth (plus $1.65 middleman fees).

 

~Jason

[steel]

Sent you an email Razz

[nordwindranger]

hahaha if Moribundus feels like a ghost, I must be a zombie or something.

 

I'd like to give my opinion on a couple matters:

 

1. community not working together/too many projects

The rebellion 2 project that I was working on was a solo job for the simple fact that I was learning as I went, and my relative inexperience with game programming would have made it hard to collaborate on any level. Honestly I'm not sure how you could efficiently set up a collaborative programming project over the internet (but I don't really have any experience with this..). The fact of the matter is that any complex gaming project is going to take years to develop, unless if you have a large (centerally located) team, or are starting with a pre-existing engine. For example, I rewrote my project from scratch three times because my game programming knowledge kept progressing to the point that I saw huge flaws in my previous designs.

 

I'm not saying that community involvement isn't important. I think the community can definitely help with art (2d work, 3d models, sound) ideas, and playtesting, but a game has to reach a certain level of development before it is worth it for the community to commit to the project. I guess what I'm saying is that once someone's project reaches a level where it can actually simulate the rebellion experience (using programmer art/mock-up models), it will then be ready for the community to get involved in fleshing it out.

 

2. at Steel and anybody else looking for help with their project:

I'm happy to help out in a limited way. As I've got my own (non-star wars) game project that I am working on, I am not really looking to become a full-on team member, but I would be happy to troubleshoot code, or help figure out how to code specific things. My experience is mostly with C#/XNA, but if you are looking for some placeholder models, I would be happy to throw the ones from my project your way. The best way to get a hold of me would be to shoot me a direct email (should be available through my profile) or contact me through my site.

 

cheers!

[Evaders99]

Essentially there are too many chiefs and not enough indians

We probably don't all agree what's a good design... nor would we want to sit down and program "someone else's game" design.

 

This is why there are game studios - designs to make the game and programmers to implement them. Not to say that programmers don't have input, but ultimately there's a business model and a certain amount of leadership. The overhead requirement to do it generally means you need enough people to quit their day-job

[Moribundus]

hahaha if Moribundus feels like a ghost, I must be a zombie or something.

 

Good to see you alive then. I still keep occasionally checking your devblog

 

I'm not saying that community involvement isn't important. I think the community can definitely help with art (2d work, 3d models, sound) ideas, and playtesting, but a game has to reach a certain level of development before it is worth it for the community to commit to the project. I guess what I'm saying is that once someone's project reaches a level where it can actually simulate the rebellion experience (using programmer art/mock-up models), it will then be ready for the community to get involved in fleshing it out.

 

But what about community coders? If you have six coders in the community, let them work on the engine separately and choose the one that looks best is IMHO a bit silly approach (and a terrible waste of manpower). Of course everyone is (de)motivated (eg. the more solo projects are here, the more I want to quit and stop wasting my time ) by what they can see and play, so artists won't be eager to create assets for a game that is not even available for public testing. But someone needs to write that game and that's best done in more people (even if it uses programmer art as placeholders), not the other way. But every team requires a team leader, which is something this community is lacking.

 

E is right about the chiefs and indians, it appears to be the curse of these communities. I have to admit I envy you your freedom with your TWE project. I guess I'm more interested in the engine design rather than the game itself :-/ There will be enough Rebellions for everyone after all

[steel]

Think you will find is that the biggest problem is level of development for each of the developers.

 

Everyone is comfortable with what they are used to. Whether its David in Java, yourself in C++/GL and what not. I have completed 2nd year level university courses in C++ and I am still kind of worried that I cant easily follow your code. At the same time as NordWind said, most of us are learning as we go.

 

On that note, I do have the engine completed to a satisfactory level for me, and as soon as I have most of the main map done I will release to group of the active people here on the forums to recieve feedback on Design and get further ideas from everyone. It wont have the 3D map done, though with the engine well developed I will certainly be able to bring that up fairly quickly.

 

I expect that should take about 2 months so looking at an early May release hopefully.

[steel]

I dont get as much time to work on this anymore and not having access to the Internet is a pain in the ass when trying to work out how to code some things (ie XML loading in XNA so if anyone knows how please let me know )

 

But the game is moving along still

 

Basically, I have the main menu and settings for resolution done. Splash screen on the startup. After the main menu, I originally just had 400 systems looped through and created just to test how it handles. Get around 350 FPS, 400 if i remove the physics stuff which I may do if i cant find a reason to use it Memory usage sits at around 80MB with that many planets but I am pretty sure that will increase a fair amount after some time playing. I havent optimised anything at all, so that will come a bit later.

 

Each system has 3 placeholder rectangle above and to the right for characters, troops and ships which are currently not clickable (but easy to add now i know how to do it) which will bring up a list of what each list holds. Has the diplomacy bar as well as name of the system below each star.

 

I have click detection on the planets which when left clicked on it brings up a GUI Window with some basic details of the system and a placeholder for an image. That window has several tabs, one for troops, ships, facilities where you can build from. I havent completed those tabs yet but basically it will have a scroll box which will read from the types you are able to build, and display them, then a simple Quantity to build. An okay button to add it to the queue. Below this selection will show the queue of 3 boxes showing what is queued, how many, and how long till completion. Below that will be a remove button, so you can clear the queue.

 

Still plenty to do thats for sure and every time I add something it reminds me of 4000 other things I will need to add

 

In about a week or two Ill try and upload a prelim work of the 2D stuff for you guys to have a look at. I wouldnt call it a game yet, more like a pretty database but that will come with time.

 

On another note, anyone willing to throw up a nice Main Menu screen in png format would be greatly appreciated. I am not an artist by any means and 90% of what I am using currently is placeholder graphics.

[nordwindranger]

man I've got to check this more often. I'm totally hopeless at providing timely replies. I'll admit that at times I do miss working on a sci-fi game. I was thinking the other day that it would be cool to have floating buildings, like in Tribes, but they didn't have those in WW2 so I'm out of luck.

[steel]

Hi Guys,

 

Probably time I put in an update on my progress. Finally completed the Map and Team editors. This will allow up to 1000 different units for each team as well as Create and make the universe. There are probably more functions I could add to it to make making easier but in its current state it should be more than usable. It hasn't been extensively tested nor used much at all as Ive been hard at work on everything and only just finished it. Ive completed most of the engine and units as well as learnt quite a bit about graphics programming.

 

The main things I have left to do are:

Implementing the graphics of showing the universe(not incredibly hard)

Using input to move units and what not(a little hard)

Implement Missions/Research/Events(could be hard)

3D Battles(probably hardest) which i will do last.

 

What I am looking for at the moment is someone to help create the content(universe and teams) as well as source pictures for each unit and models if at all possible. Anyone willing to give it a shot, shoot me an email @ mijatovic@iinet.net.au.

[steel]

Well last time I left an update here, I just explained what I had done.

 

I am prepared to show a little more now.

 

Here is a preview picture of what has been completed in game so far.

http://yfrog.com/f/mxlatestpreviewj/

 

In about a month, I believe my 2D portion should almost be completed. From there I will test the game on multiple systems, fixing any errors that pop up. Ill also check performance and so long as its respectable then I will move on to the 3D portion. Initially, it will be released as MP only however I will be looking into adding AI. I have a couple of coders I can consult with so hopefully I can convince one of these guys to do some AI while I do the 3D

 

Specifically for testers, I will be looking for someone who has different resolutions. 1024x768 , 1280x1024 and 1920x1080 ill need to check. Those with onboard video cards may as well not bother as I highly doubt they will run the game(uses Shader Model 2) and I wont be adding code to do it.

[Evaders99]

Don't take this the wrong way. I don't want to discourage you from making an awesome game.

 

But I have to say that the floating windows makes it look like it's going be a click-fest again. As I don't see any window management, I can only speculate on the possible bad; it could be a nightmare to manage. Rebellion's primitive window management would be horrible to replicate.

[budious]

I kind of like the free floating window design, of course I would have to actually try his implementation of it for a proper assessment. If the right quick minimize features, drag to smart dock on screen, or turn mouse wheel on window title bar to collapse window (*nix) and leave bar on screen. I'd like the idea of the dockable menus so that the interface could be customized to users preference and display resolution. This design route would have to functionally superior to classic Rebellion though because that GUI did suck.

 

Ex. A dockable main menu system for Build Dialog that would list systems controlled by player, click or hover desired system and either (1) a scrollout submenu that so long as remained focus of the mouse actions would remain expanded and then collapse back into main dock, or (2) open a separate window with a quick minimize feature such as an action by clicking the mouse again outside of the window's focus. The main menu could then hide an optional auto-hide feature similar to ones in many applications, when you move the mouse near the trigger area of the screen, it reappears again. Also, preferable that these menus could be freely docked for player's preference.

 

Style wise, your current system is top-notch, coming from a LXDE desktop environment it feels very familiar already. I prefer the simplistic approach and do not waste precious development time on GUI aesthetics that only you or a few people may end up liking. Focus on the content and have the main body of the game application be the star backdrop and galactic map functioning more as a dynamic wallpaper than a game, then if you customize a plug-in interface to the application to allow external applications, or a bash terminal so I can run irssi during multiplayer... or at least supported windowed application mode, or that would be preferred default for me at least... I did get out on a rambling tangent again, you're probably not even making this for Linux but be nice if it was OpenGL and cross platform... but one can dream! Oh Rebellion II, Where oust you!

Edited September 9, 2010 by budious

[steel]

Don't take this the wrong way. I don't want to discourage you from making an awesome game.

 

But I have to say that the floating windows makes it look like it's going be a click-fest again. As I don't see any window management, I can only speculate on the possible bad; it could be a nightmare to manage. Rebellion's primitive window management would be horrible to replicate.

 

Im always open to constructive advice however I have yet to be given a viable alternative to implement. With regards to window management what do you mean? I had all those windows open more to show their creation rather than have them used. If you mean to have them minimise like in Rebellion I will certainly look into implementing that.

 

With no ideas to change the interface, I have to stick with what I know. I think people talk up Rebellions interface problems anyway, as I never once thought it was a struggle and didnt even realise it was a problem till I saw some people here.

 

I could consider merging in some windows and removing others to make it less annoying. Any other ideas?

 

In reply to budious, unfortunately coding the game in OpenGL is not an option. I used XNA which is Windows-Only and to convert to OpenGL would take far too long. The game source however, is opensource and I have no problem with letting someone take a shot at converting it all

 

You've given me some ideas as well to the interface and I will go back and try and design something. The more ideas the merrier, because I want to make it a better game for all.