Fleet Arrival Knowledge Ruins the game

[BaronFel]

Hi guys I'm just new here but me and my friend have been long time Rebellion players (I remember getting the shakes reading the manual on the bus home from skipping Uni after the purchasing on it's first day out) despite the fact it's so frustrating ( Surely a couple of months more work could have made this game trully great)

 

What make's it basically impossible to play in MP we find is the fact that you can see that Enemy Fleets are going to arrive before they even get there ( How ridiculous is that). How can you surprise attack? You can't stop your fleet once it's in Hyperspace so the enemy just acculmulates all there forces in the sector maybe get anouther fleet from a close sector send in an Interdictor and wait. Once they arrive they are crushed unmercifully and unable to escape. The enemy should have had no idea they were coming and be devastatingly surprised.

 

As the rebels Surprise Attacks and Stinging raids should be the order of the day. Quick in and out's before the Empire can react.

 

Also Fleet Battle's should be commited to for a minimum of 3-5 minutes before the enemy can Hyperspace back out. Not instantaneous escape with no consequence for poor tatical decisions as the game allows. You can't tell me that no conclusive space battles were ever fought in Star Wars until the arrival of Gravity Well Ships. It's resonable to expect it to take a few minutes for the computers to calculate a Hyperspace jump otherwise they'll "Fly right through a star" apologies fanatic's if that quotes a little incorrect but you get my jist.

 

There's plenty of other small errors that could have been fixed in days by Lucas Arts had they cared enough and hadn't just abonded this game after realease like a naughty child they were ashamed of.

 

It's so close but also so nowhere near there.

 

Surprisingly it's still outstanding good fun. It has Star Destroyer's how couldn't it be.

 

Can anyone help me with these issues? Do the total conversions help and are they good fun?

 

Is there a way to turn off Fleet Arrival Knowledge?

 

To pre-empt yes I did search and found nothing on this topic.

 

Cheers Guys I was stoked to find this Website I thought no one cared about SWR.

 

Baron

[R2-Opus2]

The only methods I've seen, and I'm not sure I'm totally accurate on this, about preknowledge of fleets...On worlds where I might have a Jedi or something, sometimes I get some preknowledge of a fleet approaching, but many times its something I overlook if I have a lot going on.

 

Most other ways I think are espionage to find those things out. I suppose one way to cut down "preknowledge" to some extent is to alter the abilities of your espionage specops. By limiting them that forces you to rely on your 30 characters only You could also probably lower the attributes of your probe/recon specops. The one area I don't think you can do anything about though is the diplomatic states that sometimes give you info...If a world isn't all the way in your favor, info will leak out from time to time even if you have no specops or characters running missions to 'em.

 

However usually I leave things as is for the most part, instead relying on having some fast fleets, and some slow ones with more punch. The reason I think that your running into trouble if your playing lots of multiplayer is that chances are, everybody uses fast fleets for just such a reason as you sited, trapping the enemy. When your playing against a player and they've gotten their interdictors, odds are unlike going up against the AI, they'll have more than one in their fleets.

 

With just AI, you only need enough fighters to keep your fleet alive long enough to knock out their interdictor no matter the size of the enemy. Even if they have a juicy target that has characters onboard, I usually hit the interdictor(s) before anything else and assess things after that point.

[BoShek]

Frankly, I don´t see the problem. You only get info about incoming fleets from spying. If the enemy fleet is headed for one of your planets you have to spy on your own planets *and* get the timing right. Although there are players who regularily do that I find it difficult and tiring to keep up the constant spy missions. In my experience it´s rare to know where the enemy will arrive.

 

As for "ruining" the game: This site exists because everyone here is convinced that SWR is a fantastic game even with all its flaws. If you truly think it´s "nowhere near there" maybe it´s the wrong game for you.

 

As for withdrawal from tactical battles: On the one hand you advovcate hit-and-run attacks for th Rebels on the other you complain that a fleet can immediately withdraw. I find that inconsistent. The option to withdraw is what makes hit-and-run possible until the arrival of interdictors later in the game. After that battles tend to get decisive. I don´t see the problem here either.

[BaronFel]

Thanks for your replies guys

 

I'm starting to doubt my own sanity now I've dragged out my copy and have a big MP session planned with my flatmate to re-assess the game and it's problems. I can saftly say though that me and my friend never send out spying missions really other than to find planets or occasionally check defenses, to be honest we are far to lazy but we constantly caught each other's fleets because the symbol of a incoming fleet was there. I will recheck my facts in our game and reply but because that was the reason we stopped playing in the first place I'm pretty sure.

 

In reply to Boshek

 

The preknowledge is really just ruining multiplayer and since the Hard setting isn't hard enough it's frustrating.

 

However, you misrepresent me by using half a quote I said "It's so close but also so nowhere near there" meaning yes I do love this game (As I also stated straight after that quote) but mourn the fact that with a little more time and love by Lucasarts it could have been a true classic, all the hard work was done but a little more polishing a tweaking could have made it so great. Is there ever a better idea for a game than a Star War's Space Stratedgy game. Answer NO. Why do they ignore such great potential and when they made the attempt why not see it through, improve Rebellion and make a sequel even better.

 

If you don't like to talk about the problems of Rebellion then I apologise. Faults and all though it's one of my favorite games, what can I say I love Star Wars.

 

With "Hit and Run" what I am trying to portray is that if a fleet jumps into a system without any knowledge of the opposition then why should they be able to run away when they discover they are outnumbered without any penalty. If there was a time limit on escape ( Say 2-3 mins) then you would have to be very careful about where you sent your fleets or you could suffer a mauling for poor choices. This would make Recon far more important and make trolling the Systems in search of an easy kill a thing of the past

 

In the books, films and games the Rebel Strike's where carefully planned attacks based on Intel with the emphasis on taking advantage of an opportunity and then escaping before the main Fleet arrived. Perhaps to prove my point where in any of the Star Wars stories did the Rebel Fleet Hyperspace straight to Coruscant just to see what was there and on finding a death star and the fleet just decide to mosey off in twenty seconds with a few shield dents curtisy of five tie fighter shots.

 

Anyway Cheers Guys I'm stoked I found this site like I said and I'm not trying to step on toes.

 

Baron

[R2-Opus2]

In a sense there is a penalty for poor choices....letting the battle go by on the automatic setting rather than in tac mode Sometimes the AI makes odd choices. If you want more mauling action, maybe play more automatic battles hehe

 

But seriously, we do care about the game obviously, and enjoy disussing how it could be better. I really hope given how technology has advanced since the first game, that they would consider an update/sequel myself. I'd prefer it in the classic civil war times like this is, but I'd play one in the Anakin/Obi-wan/Old Republic time frame if it was comparable but better.

[BoShek]

I didn´t intent to say "love it or leave it" just point out that it is a great game regardless of its faults. Sorry if it sounded a little harsh. Of course it´s one of the functions of this board to discuss those faults.

 

I will keep an eye on the game for preknowledge of fleets in my games and check if I remember correctly.

[BaronFel]

Hey guys

 

I was looking through Rebedit which really is an outstanding little edit program and will help me fix some of mine and my friends pet gripes (He goes on and on about the Sullustion's High Detection making Spec Ops immpossible I'll fix that in a jiffy)

 

 

I also we'll introduce a timer for our battles and work some sort of honour system now if we can just sort out the fleets.....

[masterjojobinks]

It has been my experience that the only true way to get the fleet arrival knowledge is to do an espionage mission to your own planet. The current game I am playing against the AI, I am looking specifically for fleet arrival knowledge so I can run, if need be. (I am slowing catching up with the huge advantage I gave the Empire) Now as my fleets get larger (much larger, completely unbeatable by the AI) I do notice that my fleet will serve as a detection field that spans several planets. I can hyper into say mon calamari and if any fleets are going to arrive on any of the closest planets to mon calamari I will detect them. You might try lowering the detection value of all the ship in the game using rebedit. The transport ships seem to have the highest. Just a thought.

[BoShek]

Now as my fleets get larger (much larger, completely unbeatable by the AI) I do notice that my fleet will serve as a detection field that spans several planets. I can hyper into say mon calamari and if any fleets are going to arrive on any of the closest planets to mon calamari I will detect them. You might try lowering the detection value of all the ship in the game using rebedit. The transport ships seem to have the highest. Just a thought.

 

Is that for real? Looks like I´ll have to invest in a few ´sports!

[Texas_Fett]

I've always found that as my activity in a sector increases, the greater chance I have of detecting enemy fleet movements. And not necessarily into that same Sector either.

 

For example, in the beginning of the game as the Rebels, I'll move most of my forces off Yavin, as well as Wedge, Chewie, and Jan Dodonna. I leave Han, Leia, and Luke there to recruit, since Yavin is always 100% loyal, thereby ensuring a better success rate for my recruitment missions. Now, I tend to send thse forces and characters to either the Sluis sector (with Mon Calamari) or to the one containing Byss (can't remember the name, though). As they complete espionage missions, I start collecting data on Fleet movements both INTO the sector as well as OUT of it. Right around day sixty I pack up Han & Co. since that's when I detect a fleet heading their way, despite the fact that no espionage was done on Yavin that could've detected it, nor was there a fleet or other units that could've detected it.

 

Another theory I've always assumed was in effect was the information from informants. How many times have you opened that message and looked at hte system only to see absolutely NO change from the last time you opened it? My guess is that traitorous characters and informants clue you in to fleet movement with some messages. Then there's always the "jump in system, fight off the fighter garrison, check the system display and see a fleet of unknown configuration heading your way," followed by gradual leaks of information. Okay, now I know it's two star destroyers...okay, now I know that they both only have one fighter squadron...okay, now that have a full troop complement. What can i say You can't explain everything.

 

As for your multi-player frustration of announcing your fleet movements, I assume this is in relation to you attempting to attack an enemy system, not simply moving your fleets between friendly or neutral systems, correct? If that is the case, then I would suggest moving your fleet to a friendly or neutral planet in the vicinity of your target FIRST, and then execute a shorter jump to your true target. Not only will this eliminate the "Gravity Well Ambush" and force concentration by your opponent, it will help you catch him with his pants down if he's not actively running espionage missions on ALL of the planets, and if he is he won't know WHICH planet you're planning on hitting. Avoid long hyperspace jumps at ALL costs, even if it's between two friendly planets. No sense in tipping off the enemy.

[R2-Opus2]

I remember one instance during a diplomacy mission I had just canceled right after the planet turned to my side, I saw a fleet on its way. I didn't run an espionage mission, so it must have had to do with either 1) the character or 2) the popular support factor.

 

Even though the pop support was a tad over half/half in my favor, I still got that information.

 

It should be noted that it's quite possibly the character, when I'd seen that phenomenon last time, I had Mothma, Leia, & Han among others running that diplomacy mission. I had even seen the same thing "before" the planet turned to my side w/no espionage missions going on there.