Re: New Vader

[Captain Data]

Facts about Vader

 

- He's incredible strong in the Force. In his final combat with Luke he was not defeated by Luke - Vader was defeated by Anakin. His internal conflict weakens him badly and so he was not able to defeat his son.

 

- Anakin was loyal to Palpatine. Vader was NOT that loyal to Sidious, there is our conflict back again. When Vader kills Palpatine it was Anakin killing Sidious (uhhhh headache !) Anakin has learned that Palpatine was true evil and had to kill him. NOT Vader. Vader would only kill Sidious if his Son joined his side ... (headache again).

 

- Crippled but NOT weakened in the Force, Vader was STILL the most powerful Sith. He could easily kill Sidious by Lightsaber-Duell or by Force.

 

 

Now bash me for wrong facts if there any

[Nevets]

Uhmm ... he IS still capable doing lightnings, because he can grip too. Implants do NOT decrease the power of a Jedi, and even do so: WHY can Vader still grip someone if both Arms removed ? Maybe Vader don't want to use Lightings or Sidious was a bad teacher

 

Force grip does not involve electricity. Since his implants were robotic the electricity caused by the force lighting would have ruined his arms. One of the reasons why Luke was able to handle the force lighting a lot longer than vader. Vader's life support was blown.

 

Anakin had much more potential (midichlorian wise) than palpatine. Did Anakin ever reach his potential? I don't think so, he was still to young and emotional. On Mustafar darth vader lost his limbs making him much less manuverably, he was also put on life support. These greatly reduced his power and made him unable to reach his true potential. This disapointed palpatine, when he saw the oppertunity to take Luke as an apprentice he couldn't pass it up and would have surely taken out Vader once he accomplished this.

[DragonShadow]

Since force lightning is manifested in the air just in front of a Sith/Jedi's fingers, wouldn't that mean it wouldn't come into any contact with the body? Besides, we're not strictly talking about electricity here, we're talking about raw Force energy.

[WarHawk_pff]

I'm pretty sure it would be dangerous regardless.

[Darth Vader]

Force lightning channels the force through the body, actually, so it would have blown up vader's support system. And vadfer wanted to destroy palpatine, actually, in ESB he tells luke to join him and overthrow the emperor.

if you look here at the "Bahind the Scenes" section

http://starwars.wikicities.com/wiki/Darth_Vader

you'll see what I meant, about him being twice as powerful as the emperor...

[Uranium - 235]

Oh yeah?

 

So how about when he absorbed Han's blaster shots through his robotic hands in Cloud City?

[WarHawk_pff]

he didn't absorb them, he blocked them with a force barrier I believe.

[Nevets]

you'll see what I meant, about him being twice as powerful as the emperor...

 

You mean this?:

As Anakin, he had the greatest known midi-chlorian count (a measure of Force-aptitude) in the Galaxy, surpassing both Yoda and the Emperor's count. However, after all of his limbs were severed and he was severely burned on Mustafar he lost much of his Force potential. As Darth Vader, Anakin was believed to have had roughly 80% of the strength of the Emperor. Had he sustained none of his injuries on Mustafar he would have been twice as powerful.

 

He was twice as powerful. In the suit he is only 80%.

[Darth Vader]

I think that the suit however limited him and his abilities... however apart form the powers, can someone mod the eyes of the mask in order to color them black instead of red?

[eatcarrotsnow]

Reading this post hurts the Star Wars fan inside me.

 

First of all, Darth Vader IS NOT A JEDI ...

 

Follow my lips: Sssssiiiiith.

 

Yes, Darth Vader was a SITH alter-ego to Anakin Skywalker.

 

They were physically in the same body, yes, but Darth Vader is another "mind", another person to say the least. Even the "Dark Side" Anakin was not doing things the same way Vader did.

 

Darth Vader doesn't use full front attacks and raw power. He uses intimidation and brings fear in his ranks and the whole Empire. You HAD to respect Vader and NEVER disappoint him, or you had some nice Force Choke up your sorry self upon giving a report of your failure to him.

 

Vader followed the Emperor's will without questioning, and Vader was also a great commander. With all his powers he could have probably landed alone on Hoth and taken the whole Rebel base by himself.

 

But no, the Galactic Empire invades planets, create orbital blockades and use raw military power and great numbers to create fear amongst the known Galaxy, and whoever wants to oppose them will get the challenge of their life.

 

Vader was NOT a wuss in Return of the Jedi. He followed orders from the Emperor.

 

I mean ... Jesus ... the Old Trilogy's lore is around since 1977 and up to nowdays there is still people around that THINK they know all about it.

 

And sorry about my English I know it's not the best out there, I'm not English myself. I'm just trying to point out some Star Wars lore facts.

 

You're absolutely incorrect.  First, Jesus isn't in Star Wars.  He is in the Christian Bible.  These are entirely two separate things.

 

Second, Jedi is the an overarching class of person in the Star Wars universe.  Sith is a sub-class of Jedi.  Both are force users.  Both are diametrically opposed to the other.  You can be a Jedi without being a Sith; you cannot be a Sith without also being Jedi.  By your own argument, watch episode III again.  Palpatine makes it clear to Anakin that the Sith and Jedi are the same, only the Sith use parts of the force that Jedi do not.  This part or the "secrets" he alludes to is "the dark side."

 

Third, as far as the two minds in one person, you make this way too complicated. There is no split personality going on. Anakin is Vader and Vader is Anakin.  There is no one mind awake, one mind asleep.  The whole story is about a guy falling from grace and then his redemption.  It was not, insert new diabolical personality in place, then substitute with original.  Vader is simply a new name, designating that he is Sith.  He's still Anakin, only he's now fallen from grace, consumed with anger, and totally evil.  Oh, and the most bad*** Jedi ever! Go try your new age religion crap somewhere else, it's not a part of Star Wars or Star Wars Lore anywhere.

 

Fourth, anybody that has watched any of the films can sees the clear wuss factor of Vader in Jedi.  He's ready to take Luke and overthrow the Emperor in Empire, then a few years later, decides it is useless to resist the Emperor.  What, is the Emperor going to take his Jello pudding pops away if he doesn't obey.  The Vader from Empire would have brought Luke with him to the Emperor to kill him, not to hand him over to the Emperor.  Why would Vader be so stupid to not know that the Emperor simply wants another lackey to replace him.  Also, Vader kills the Emperor in the end anyway, which proves my point that Vader is better, faster, greater, more powerful than the Emperor in the first place, and Luke in the second.  Vader could kill the Emperor whenever he wants from day one; he chooses not to.  Why?  Ask Lucas because I don't know.

 

Finally, to top it all off, you obviously have never listened to a thing George Lucas has said about any lore that comes from outside the movies.  According to him, none of it counts, but since none of it messes with his movies, he doesn't care.  It's a cash cow too, which he does care about.

 

So take your supposed and incorrect "Star Wars lore facts" and do some research.

[Zenoth]

You're absolutely incorrect.  First, Jesus isn't in Star Wars.  He is in the Christian Bible.  These are entirely two separate things.

 

That was obviously an expression in the given context. Maybe you were trying to be sarcastic. If you tried to bring some humor then you failed at least to my eyes.

 

Second, Jedi is the an overarching class of person in the Star Wars universe.  Sith is a sub-class of Jedi.  Both are force users.

 

Agreed. 

 

Both are diametrically opposed to the other. You can be a Jedi without being a Sith; you cannot be a Sith without also being Jedi.

 

Completely agree. See ? We share common opinions (and facts) !

 

Third, as far as the two minds in one person, you make this way too complicated.

 

It is not complcated for me. If it is for you, then what can I possibly do or say about that ? Sorry ?

 

There is no split personality going on. Anakin is Vader and Vader is Anakin.  There is no one mind awake, one mind asleep.

 

You make this way to simplistic (yeah yeah you can give me the same answer I gave you for your "too complicated" comment), and that's not just in my opinion.

 

According to StarWars.com's Databank (which you can as well may not consider as official or cannon to your eyes), Darth Vader began life as Anakin Skywalker. Right there, it implies two different personalites, to say the least.

 

"His wife, Padmé Amidala, followed Anakin to Mustafar, to plead for him to return from the dark side." (from the Databank's information regarding Darth Vader).

 

Indeed. If we follow your ... facts, or should I say theory, that Anakin is Vader (and vise versa), then explain me why Anakin (since Vader is Anakin, so Padmé must have talked to both of them, or actually only one, the original Anakin, going by your sayings) completely ignored his loved one's plea to return from the Dark Side (which completely consumes your original personalities and morals), and even Force Choke'd her without expressing any sort of remorse whatsoever ?

 

It wasn't Vader that killed Padmé then ? I do believe it was.

 

But if you still don't, then, what can I say more, nothing I fear.

 

There is a slipt personality. But to the point that saying one is "awake" while the other is "asleep" is simply viewing the subject in a simplistic way, as I believe.

 

It's very subtle, and at the same time so obvious.

 

That's exactly why Darth Vader (or ... Anakin, according to you) said himself to Luke that Anakin Skywalker (the very name itself) "means nothing to me" (said by Vader in Return of the Jedi when Luke surrenders himself to him after meeting with the Ewoks).

 

If Darth Vader said "means nothing to me", then who's "me" in there ?

 

And if I recall correctly, Luke answers him "you've only forgotten". Then to that answer, Vader responds "It is too late for me". So, politically speaking, he ... "agreed" to the theory of the forgotten "Anakin being/personality/mind", but recognizes himself as another "person", another being, although sharing the same body.

 

One could even say that the Dark Side of the Force gives an impression of a major depression.

 

Vader is simply a new name, designating that he is Sith.  He's still Anakin...

 

As I said, it may come down to a matter of opinions ... but at least according to what can be considered "cannon proof", you'd be right, but wrong at the same time.

 

And the bottom line here is that perhaps none of us can be entirely and absolutely 100% right.

 

Oh, and the most bad*** Jedi ever!

 

Oh, and that's probably why you said he's a wuss ? Go figure ...

 

Go try your new age religion crap somewhere else, it's not a part of Star Wars or Star Wars Lore anywhere.

 

Who's talking about religion ?

 

Talking about a person having potentially two personalities makes that not only a subject of "religion", but "new age" as well ? Man you gotta have to tell me what are "new age" subjects combined with religion aspects. But don't you think it wouldn't be part of this thread's main subject anyway ? I think we should stop right there with this.

 

And as far as "part of Star Wars lore anywhere" goes, it does at StarWars.com, and the movies.

 

Also, Vader kills the Emperor in the end anyway, which proves my point that Vader is better, faster, greater, more powerful than the Emperor in the first place, and Luke in the second.  Vader could kill the Emperor whenever he wants from day one; he chooses not to.  Why?  Ask Lucas because I don't know.

 

And despite all what you think about Vader being "bad ass", it makes him a wuss at least in Return of the Jedi still ?

 

Oh well I guess we all have our own definitions of someone being "bad ass" and being a "wuss".

 

Finally, to top it all off, you obviously have never listened to a thing George Lucas has said about any lore that comes from outside the movies.  According to him, none of it counts, but since none of it messes with his movies, he doesn't care.  It's a cash cow too, which he does care about.

 

Well, what you think about George Lucas is also a matter of personal opinions. If you think he's a cash cow, then perhaps that's good for you, who knows really.

 

So take your supposed and incorrect "Star Wars lore facts" and do some research.

 

That's what I did.

[ShineDog]

i agree with the other guy.

 

the dark side corrupted anakins personality, it didnt make him scitzophrenic. anakin choked padme because he was going mad with rage and grief and deluded ideas of her betraying him, not because his alterego was taking over him.

 

so yes. anakin is vader. anakin went bad. this is not an oversimplification, this is you reading faaaar too much into this.

[Zenoth]

Everything is relative anyway.

 

What is "far too much" for you might just be "simplistic" to me. And vise versa.

 

And considering Mr. Lucas didn't imply neither via movies' scripts or interviews that Anakin is indeed Vader without any alter-ego whatsoever, all we can do is speculate, as usually simple things are prefered over complex ones.

[DragonShadow]

"Anakin Skywalker" and "Darth Vader" are both the same person, just as "Palpatine" and "Darth Sidious" are the same and "Count Dooku" and "Darth Tyranus" are the same. "Darth Vader" is a Sith title given to Anakin Skywalker when he turned to the dark side and became a Sith Apprentice. Those are the facts. If you disagree, you're wrong, and you should plain DEAL with it!

 

Anakin Skywalker chose to turn to the Dark Side, before there was any Darth Vader. Think on that for a couple of minutes...

[Zenoth]

"Anakin Skywalker" and "Darth Vader" are both the same person, just as "Palpatine" and "Darth Sidious" are the same and "Count Dooku" and "Darth Tyranus" are the same. "Darth Vader" is a Sith title given to Anakin Skywalker when he turned to the dark side and became a Sith Apprentice. Those are the facts. If you disagree, you're wrong, and you should plain DEAL with it!

 

Hmmm *knocks head*, hello ? Somebody's here ?

 

I am NOT saying that Vader and Anakin are NOT the same !

 

I am saying that there is a CONFLICTING situation between TWO PERSONALITIES within the same person, being originally Anakin Skywalker. I am talking about an ALTER-EGO, which by definition MANIFESTS itself temporarily or indefinitely !

 

I KNOW they are "the same", I'm just saying THEY ARE CONFLICTING between EACH OTHERS ! Which in turn could make one say that at the same time they are NOT the same since NONE of the TWO "Entities" completely overrun the other. So that Darth Vader is neither entirely Anakin nor his Dark Side "alter-ego", and that takes place for a long period of time, until around Return of the Jedi (and perhaps before through books or things I possibly missed since I'm not perfect), where the true, original Anakin Skywalker, the "good" one began to fight his way to the surface, up to the critical moment where he saw his very son being burned down to dust by his "Mentor"/"Master", which of course he couldn't take anymore, and by KILLING the Emperor, he delivered himself from the grips of the Dark Side that was brainwashing him.

 

Don't tell me Anakin would have wholeheartedly chosen to turn to the Dark Side if he KNEW he'd see no remorse by killing his beloved Padmé, if he KNEW he'd  cut part of one of his son's arm, or if he'd have to fight against his son in the first place. If he KNEW he'd even threaten to turn his daughter to the Dark Side (in Return of the Jedi). You don't, you can't forsee such things. Visions of horrors. You fall to the Dark Side. Plain simple. To me anyway. And that I can deal with it even with pleasure.

 

I am sorry if I didn't make it clear enough from the beginning. I'm trying my best to explain myself since English isn't my native language, and I freakin' take the time to search for words to defend the stance on the subject of Darth Vader being or not being Anakin at the same time, and especially being a "wuss" or not.

 

Anakin Skywalker chose to turn to the Dark Side, before there was any Darth Vader. Think on that for a couple of minutes...

 

"Skywalker was seduced by the dark side of the Force. His boundless abilities fueled a sense of pride that hastened his fall. He chafed under the rigid strictures of the Jedi Code, and would discreetly transgress from the Jedi teachings to suit his wants. Despite it being forbidden, Skywalker secretly married his love Padmé Amidala. It was his deep-rooted concern for her safety that became his greatest weakness, one that the Sith Lord Darth Sidious was able to exploit." -StarWars.com Databank

 

One don't wholeheartedly "chose to turn to" the Dark Side. You fall to it. It's not the same thing. The result is the same, but the way it is done is different. Man I'm repeating myself here.

 

If a Jedi could deliberately chose to "turn", there would be no need of a Sith Master in the first place. He could just from one day to another suddenly decide "hmmm, alright today I'm gonna go Dark Side baby because it rules, I want to, cya Jedi suckas !!!". I mean c'mon ...

 

A Sith Master exploits the weaknesses of a force practitioner (that wasn't turned to the Dark Side already of course) so that the subject succombs to the Dark Side. All those years of Star Wars literature and entertainement were useless to some still today as it seems. Why do I still have to explain this. It's stated on the web-site for God's sake, and even mentioned by characters in the movies, such as Obi-Wan Kenobi in Episode IV and VI if I recall correctly (telling to Luke that Vader was seduced by the Dark Side, he never said "he chose to turn to"). You're being seduced by the Dark Side "offerings", then you fall to it.

 

Oh well, I'm trying to post facts from the Star Wars web-site and movies, I can't do more.

 

Further than that it's a matter of opinions and speculation.

 

I stop here. I see no use of more discussion on the subject.

 

And I apologize to the thread's creator for deviating from the main subject. That's my fault.

[DragonShadow]

Hey, yeah, this was about a Vader model...lol...talk about wandering off course... :

[Bryant_pff]

Attack of the Fanboys

[DragonShadow]

You bet!!! ;D :

[reddogzl]

hasn't this gotten way off topic?

[Nevets]

Yea, I think it is about time I move it to the General Star Wars forum.

[Darth Vader]

actually I wanted to know is someone could make the alterations I asked for.. I enjoyed the discussion however it was very illuminating

[DragonShadow]

I enjoyed the discussion however it was very illuminating

 

True...in answer to the question, probably.

[Darth Vader]

yet, it is possible to modify him?

 

I mean, blackened eyes ( ala ESB or ROTJ)

and Force Lightning