Hardpoint health vs tactical health - important question for modders

[Zarkis]

I noticed that the tactical health value for ships with destryable hardpoints doesn't correspond to the sum of all the hardpoint health values. For example the Nebulon B has a tactical health of 3600, but if you sum up all the hardpoint health values you only get 1300 hitpoints.  In game a ship is killed after the last hardpoint is destroyed. So what stands tactical health in the ship xmls for? Is it only used for smaller ships which don't have destroyable hardpoints?

[kingdark]

good question.. i have no idea actualy you could try change it into zero and see whap happens

[Prophion]

It's just a guess, but it's possible tactical health is the sum of the shield and hardpoint health.

[kingdark]

so i you change it to zero, it should be destroyed after 1 hit?

[dw333]

exactly, harp points are the health!

 

if you remove the target/destroy/health for the hardpoints then the tactical health is the true value! actually works fine like this (no hardpoints), and is alot or will be alot easier to add new models, until all new models added have hardpoint models.

[Cain]

Here is what I did:

 

Added in WTME v6.9.2

 

-Starbases build costs credits increased - with Level 5 costs now 10000 - level 1 costs 2600, etc.

-Starbases build time seconds is from 250 sec (level 1) up to 800 sec (Level 5).

-The Desth Star costs 40000 credits and the build time is 1310 sec (around 20 minutes on slow)

-The MC costs 6000 and the ISD costs 7500 both are builded in 300 sec (5 min on slow)

-The ISD has now power to weapons ability.

-The MC and ISD weapons hardpoints have now more healt points HP (ISD from 325 to 425/MC from 425 to 525)

-The ISD Shield Hardpoint has now 625 HP from 325.

-Increased camera zoom range by 30%-50%.

 

Since it upseted me how easy a capital ships loosed all his firepower to torpedos that can go true shilds ... So basicaly the bardpoint beeing sepearted from the ship (as strength) was destroyed pretty easly...now it is more realistic.

[Tauron]

Now there remains the question why torpedos and missiles go through shields. In all previous SW games (X-Wing, Tie Fighter, etc.) as well as the movies these weapons did a lot of damage but were not able to penetrate shields. I wonder why Petroglyph changed that. That's not SW!!!

And if torpedos penetrate shields why the heck would anyone use something like puny lasers  ???

 

Though Im glad that the game is so moddable

[1stStrikeRecon]

Missile Weapons penetrate shielding because shields generally have two layers: Ray Shielding and Particle Shielding. Particle shielding protects the ship from radiation and objects, and tends not to be as strong as Ray Shielding. Ray Shielding blocks lasers, but is not turned on most of the time because it drains energy alot.

 

The SW Flight Simulators choose balance over lore-canon specificity in terms of shielding. In the movies, it becomes far more difficult to discern the damage these weapons do as you never clearly see them hitting anything with shields.

[MistenTH]

Spent over 2 hours and finally figured it out.

 

Tactical health only matters if your ship has NO targetable / destroyable hard points.

 

The moment your ship has a hard point, its hull health is the hard point total.

 

If you want to simulate innate hull strength, give the ship a hard point that is destroyable but NOT targetable.  Then give that hard point however much health you have.  Now, even if all visible hard points are dead, the ship can still take some damage before exploding.

 

Actually, the Tactical health does play a part in certain settings.  In my case, I gave the Assault Frigate another turbolaser, but set at destroy/target NO.  In this case, even after all the hardpoints died, the frigate continued to take damage until the tactical health value.  However, I didn't use this as it leaves an invincible target reticle that I could not remove.  If you remove the reticle display data, then the tactical health is not factored in.  So I did not use this method.

[Joebwan]

I noticed that the tactical health value for ships with destroyable hardpoints doesn't correspond to the sum of all the hardpoint health values. For example the Nebulon B has a tactical health of 3600, but if you sum up all the hardpoint health values you only get 1300 hitpoints.  In game a ship is killed after the last hardpoint is destroyed. So what stands tactical health in the ship xmls for? Is it only used for smaller ships which don't have destroyable hardpoints?

 

is basically "hull" health. When hull health is depleted the ship is destroyed. If a ship has hard points and if all the hard points are destroyed a ship is also destroyed. Hard points have their own health and for the most part, if a ship has hard points, then those take damage rather than the hull. There are (or were) some exceptions to this where damage would be applied to the hull rather than to a hard point and this was making ships too easy to destroy in certain cases. This is why TacticalHealth will typically be higher than the sum of the health of the destroyable hard points the ship has.

[Tauron]

@ 1stStrikeRecon

 

Not only in the flight sims. Also in the SW literature I know, shield did not work solely against beam weapons.

From a logical point of view: why bother with beam weapons when all particle weapons can penetrate shields?

"Hmm, that Droideka has strong shields, but that won't help him against my .44 Magnum  ;D"

 

I don't know about the shields in the SW pen&paper rpg. But if you have sources to prove me wrong, let me know.

I'm not sure that the shield effects are consistent thru the whole SW universe (books, movies, rpg), but as a Tie Fighter veteran I'm used to a certain shield effect 

[DragonShadow]

Missile Weapons penetrate shielding because shields generally have two layers: Ray Shielding and Particle Shielding. Particle shielding protects the ship from radiation and objects, and tends not to be as strong as Ray Shielding. Ray Shielding blocks lasers, but is not turned on most of the time because it drains energy alot.

 

The SW Flight Simulators choose balance over lore-canon specificity in terms of shielding. In the movies, it becomes far more difficult to discern the damage these weapons do as you never clearly see them hitting anything with shields.

 

Also, you can't fire projectile weapons with particle shields activated (otherwise missiles launched would blow up inside the shields.

 

And do you think a 44 magnum can hurt something made out of metal?

[Tauron]

Let's get physical  ;D. Then you couldn't shoot beam weapons with activated ray shields either  But that's a general problem with nearly all implementations of shield technique throughout all kind of sci-fi. The most common solution: shields only work one-way. But this is up to the creator of the particular universe. Another universe may have other laws.

The beams in Star Wars are nor lasers nor any other kind of electromagnetic wave, as they do not travel at lightspeed. So are they made of particles  ???

But back to the hardpoints: if the shields block all attacks, then the importance of the shields is much greater and the one of the hardpoints is reduced. Big ships with strong shields would last much longer than they do now. That would require a whole new balancing 

[dw333]

didnt read all the posts, but you can make missiles and torpedoes hit shields by changing it in projectiles.xml