Unit Experience- Why Not??

[Nevets]

Instead of having unit experience, at least you can have improved armor, weapons, and shields. At least that's something to customize your ships. Also, as PG has said, they die so fast, that it isn't worth it. Heroes are the real "experienced" units in this game. The commanders also add something to your army's ability to fight.

 

Yea, and not even heroes don't have experience. That would even be a plus. Luke gaining experience through the jedi ranks would be fun, as well as with mara jade.

 

And I don't know about you, but I can keep an ISD an At-At a mighty long time. Units like this should definitely have experience. Also with units gaining experience maybe they wont die so quick.

 

I would like improved armor, weapons and shields. Would definitely add a more customizable aspect to the game that is lacking.

[Darthscharnhorst2]

 

I would like improved armor, weapons and shields. Would definitely add a more customizable aspect to the game that is lacking.

 

Yes.  I would knock off those stupid one time upgrades that you have to research EVERY BATTLE in favor of giving experienced troops the bonuses.  This was a serious flaw in my opinion.  I think the dev team did a good job with the real time combat, but really screwed over the strategy

[Wiking_pff]

And I don't know about you, but I can keep an ISD an At-At a mighty long time. Units like this should definitely have experience. Also with units gaining experience maybe they wont die so quick.

 

Me too. The argument that they die too quickly is BS. Sure, stormies die quick, TIEs die quick, ISDs, AT-ATs and even VSDs can last a long time.

[The_talented]

Well, I started a post and it got way too long, LOL.  So here's a slightly shorter version...I do get carried away sometimes, LOL.

 

For me, EAW is a very good game.  It however, is not a revolutionary game that I think should win awards although it probably will since there most likely won't be another rts this year for EAW to be compared to. 

 

The thing is though, all or most of the better RTS games of previous years have certain features that fans have come to expect will be in future games.  Unit experience is one of them.  When you leave such features as unit experience out of the newer games, it's kinda like making a basketball game with no free throw feature, a football game with no play clock, a racing game with no hand brake, a FPS game with no jumping ability.    Sure you can have fun playing those games without such features if your the type who enjoy arcade style game play, but you definitely will miss them because they have become features gamers expect to be there and have grown accustom to.  The first thing you'll say if they aren't is that such and such game had that feature and a brand new 2006 game with today's better technology doesn't have it.  Come on, what's up with that, especially with all of todays copy and paste features a lot of other developers seem to use for games. 

 

The debate that units die too fast is clearly a reason why the feature should be in the game.  Units that have survived multiple encounters (like Vader's 501st whom were considered the best troopers in the imperial army, second to only the emperor's hand), should gain an edge over a freshly new produced unit.  Without such a feature it's like saying that (in real life terms), a army platoon fresh out of boot camp with no war experience is just as good as a veteran platoon who fought in 3 wars before them.  we all know that isn't the truth or else there wouldn't be any need to give ranks to different platoons or personnel.

 

Also, I know people love the cinematic feature and the devs are proud of that as well, however, when you look at it, all your simply doing is watching the computer play itself since you can't command your units in that view.  For me, I like to issue a lot of quick commands during combat and I don't have time to sit back and watch the cinematic view if I'm playing a serious game.    So the cinematic feature is a nice bonus, but should never have taken priority over the most basic and expected features for the game.  I can understand diplomacy not being in the game as it's not a staple feature of a RTS, but unit experience has been for many years and I can't recall a RTS game that doesn't have it in some form or another (hey, I haven't played them all).

 

So in my opinion, experience or rankings for units should have been in the game.  For those who's units die really quick, then I would think that an experience feature would help you to spend a little time using more strategy and tactics.  Only reason I say this is because I can play and have quite a few units survive multiple battles without losing a single unit from their squad and all I have to say is that it's because of the strategy and tactics I use.  Should an experience feature be in the game, then those units would probably be elite or highly ranked units in my games and every bit, no matter how little counts in a strategy game.  Sometimes 5 points of health or a .5 second recharge is the difference in winning or losing a battle or war just like 1 second on the game clock in basketball or 1 yard short of the goal line in football (Pittsburgh vs Rams, Superbowl anyone?).

you... your kidding right? shorter?

[Dorkthehunter]

Sometimes 5 points of health or a .5 second recharge is the difference in winning or losing a battle or war just like 1 second on the game clock in basketball or 1 yard short of the goal line in football (Pittsburgh vs Rams, Superbowl anyone?).

It was definately the Tennesse Titans versus the Rams!!! My team won! Yey Rams! Btw, it was Mike Jones of the St. Louis Rams that made the game winning tackle.

 

Anywho....since it seems to me that the average Imperial units last longer, it would be unfair for the Rebels for the game to have unit experience.

[The_talented]

It was definately the Tennesse Titans versus the Rams!!! My team won! Yey Rams! Btw, it was Mike Jones of the St. Louis Rams that made the game winning tackle.

 

Anywho....since it seems to me that the average Imperial units last longer, it would be unfair for the Rebels for the game to have unit experience.

i really think everyone is overplaying that game ending.... it was actually more like 2-3 yards when he was down... the whistle was blown when he reached the one...

[Dorkthehunter]

i really think everyone is overplaying that game ending.... it was actually more like 2-3 yards when he was down... the whistle was blown when he reached the one...

I think you're right. Also, when the Steelers, my third favorite team, played my second favorite team, the Indianapolis Colts, in the 4th quarter there was something like that. Gerome Bettis, one of the best runningbacks in the game, fumbled the ball on the one yard line, and the Colts ran it back for 30 yards. They got past midfield. Then they almost made a touchdown on 3rd down(the guy dropped it in the end zone :'() And then they missed the field goal by a mile.  :'(

 

Anywho.....like I said before, the Imps would have an unfair advantage with the experience.

[R2-Opus2]

I think experience could matter more if persistant damage were in.  It'd help to apply more worth to units I feel.  And/Or, lump everything this thread is about and merge it with the capabilities of the commanders, this way, your managing less units overall, and just managing commanders (and perhaps whatever their ratings are i.e. where you might then deploy them in the conflict).

 

The way I figure it, the commanders can be better focal points for this kind of thing.

 

- Want your ships to be healed/repaired a little faster after a battle? Assign a commander

- Want to have overall unit health improved? Assign a commander

- Want persistant accuracy and sight bonuses?  Assign a commander

- Want to be able to selectively retreat certain damaged units without retreating from the overall battle to bring in fresh units in their place?  Assign a commander

- Want weapon hardpoints to slowy regenerate/be rebuilt or hangers to spawn fighters faster?  Assign a commander

- And anything else I forget just now

 

Point is, some of these characteristics already exsist (granted, probably not very noticable on the face of things), but I think this area could be better improved.  I mean, if the units themselves aren't to be lended experience over time, might as well make it a commander issue.  Let these units gain experience instead and translate this better to all the units under its command.

 

Then, there's more worth to the academy and constructing them, and after which there can be balance tweaks in terms of how much these commanders should cost to create.  Personally, if even a fraction of the above worked and mattered a little more noticably, I'd jack their costs up another thousand or so.

 

I thought Force Commander did an adequate job in this regard, i.e. experienced units over time would see 1, 2 & finally 3 red bars next to their unit icon.  The units themselves might still seem throwaway in a sense, and yet, not so much with a commander assigned to a particular group.  It'd be those we'd be paying more attention to anyway.

[The_talented]

yeah but if i remember correctly force commander spiraled as soon as it was available, but true i am all about the unit experience... it makes it all that much more realistic. but also... they should have some effect on the units taht are build where they are stationed... units that have more experience at a high enough level should be able to make units of the same type that are being built there stronger, but not as strong. 

 

Also when a unit group reaches the highest level, they should be able to become  transferrable commanders. the unit group should have the option to disband and go lead other fighter units of the same type OR stay together as an elite unit. if they break up, they will be able to give other units boosts to their stats. but if they sta together, they would become an elite unit being the hardest thing to kill or something like that... i dunno

 

Just an idea

[R2-Opus2]

Well I suppose unit experience can remain even without the commander, but mostly what I was putting forth was that some of those capabilites, probably should remain under the column of commander abilities.  Otherwise I think we'd siphon too much worth away from their aspects to a point where a commander wouldn't necessarily be needed.  Basically, that to use them might mean all the more difference in battle performance than straight up unit experience.

 

What I would do, just to use the Force Commander "experience bars" analogy again:

 

- Find the differences between 1 red bar'd unit acting alone vs 1 red bar'd unit plus 1 red bar'd commander.

 

The reason I didn't particularly care to delve this deeply is because I think it'd take that much longer to tweak out all the balance issues over all unit types vs just giving the experience to the commanders.

 

But going back to that example, what could the experienced unit be able to do without the commander's presence?  I'm thinking slight accuracy improvement but no health or sight improvement for example.

 

Point is, even if you have unit experience, what becomes of the role of a commander now?

[Venrai]

Heros are mainly completely unbalanced usually, they need a better style for this game.

[The_talented]

...Gerome Bettis...

 

"J"erome Bettis....

Well I suppose unit experience can remain even without the commander, but mostly what I was putting forth was that some of those capabilites, probably should remain under the column of commander abilities.  Otherwise I think we'd siphon too much worth away from their aspects to a point where a commander wouldn't necessarily be needed.   Basically, that to use them might mean all the more difference in battle performance than straight up unit experience.

 

What I would do, just to use the Force Commander "experience bars" analogy again:

 

- Find the differences between 1 red bar'd unit acting alone vs 1 red bar'd unit plus 1 red bar'd commander.

 

The reason I didn't particularly care to delve this deeply is because I think it'd take that much longer to tweak out all the balance issues over all unit types vs just giving the experience to the commanders.

 

But going back to that example, what could the experienced unit be able to do without the commander's presence?  I'm thinking slight accuracy improvement but no health or sight improvement for example.

 

Point is, even if you have unit experience, what becomes of the role of a commander now?

 

...what?...

[Nevets]

Anywho....since it seems to me that the average Imperial units last longer, it would be unfair for the Rebels for the game to have unit experience.

 

This is completely balancable and should be no reason to not have in the game.

[R2-Opus2]

...what?...

 

What what?

[The_talented]

What what?

I  said what first....

[Nevets]

And you know, when you think about it, the Rebel units should be the ones that last longer. They Imperials mass produced and didn't care how long they lasted. The Rebels are suppose to be more careful with what they use and maintain them longer. They are the ones experience should most affect.

[The_talented]

he does make a good point...  ...there are more elite units in the star wars storyline for the rebs than there are for the imps

[Dorkthehunter]

he does make a good point...  ...there are more elite units in the star wars storyline for the rebs than there are for the imps

But not at this time. That is my good point.

[The_talented]

But not at this time. That is my good point.

 

true, but this is the point where the good, elite units are created/formed(such as rogue squadron or the 181st), i was under the impression that if unit experience was going to be added, that it would be added in the expansion, which, i beleive, will take place sometime after the era that empire at war took place

[SirNuke]

Persistent damage would not work well with the current game balancing, and personally I can only think of one time were it may have made a moderate difference in how the game played.

 

However for unit experience, I think that would be a very nice touch.  For basic units, nothing too fancy, some simple system like in C&C.  For heroes, perhaps a system where you can upgrade their abilities as they get more kills (and potentially lose these some of these abilities if they get killed).

[Nevets]

 

 

However for unit experience, I think that would be a very nice touch.  For basic units, nothing too fancy, some simple system like in C&C.  For heroes, perhaps a system where you can upgrade their abilities as they get more kills (and potentially lose these some of these abilities if they get killed).

 

Excellent idea, if we can't get hero death like some of us want, there should be some penalties for having them die.

[Dorkthehunter]

Excellent idea, if we can't get hero death like some of us want, there should be some penalties for having them die.

 

There is. You don't have them until they return.

[wherryj]

I more or les agree that they could have inserted some system. That way you would be forced to protect your more experienced units more. Also, it could be usefull when the mod community insert the retreat options of individual units, to retreat a unit when its too damaged.

Another thing,

SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER

**

when you play as imperials in the campaign, yo need to use a capital ship to tractor beams leia ship. Now, the first time, i disabled her engines and she was still able to jump to hyperspace

END END END END END SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER

 

I've never understood how a unit with disabled engines, or even a unit that is totally disabled by an ion pulse, can enter hyperspace.  These are issues that are changed possibly for "balance", but really depart from canon.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The point is, that when you disable a ships engines it should NOT be able to jump to hyperspace

[Stellar_Magic]

Well Reality of Rebellion will add training levels, when its released you'll get a good idea just how a experience system could work in EAW.

[El Duderino]

Here's an idea. Probably stole it from another game, but who cares..

 

How about being able to choose certain squadrons/groups of your army, and train them for a specific purpose?

 

Mainly I'm thinking land here, say training Stormtroopers to do certain things, for example training a sniper squad, or a demolitions squad, instead of just having one set type of unit. I realise the Rebels kind of have this, but even then it could be improved, with their skills improving and the unit growing and becoming stronger.

 

And another idea (I'm freeforming here, can you tell??) would be being able to mix and match your elite units, so you'd have one great squad which would eventually grow and be a hero unit, with morale boosts to other troops it fights alongside etc. as it has become famous.

 

I realise this would probably be very hard to put in a game, but would it not be extremely cool to train your own Wraith Squadron- or Delta Squad-esque group?

 

Please don't flame me for this, as I realise it's almost definately a fantasy. Still, one can dream..