Re: Wish List

[crazylegsmurphy]

Hello,

 

I'm not sure if this is OK to do around here, or if you guys really care that much...but I thought I would take a second and create a wish list based on the demo, the mods, and what I know of the full game.

 

I think it would be awesome if the DEV's could stop by here sometime and give a thumbs up, or thumbs down to ideas that we might have. That might help us get a better idea of what is planned, what is moddable, and what we can expect.

 

So to start....

 

1. Base Building / Defensive Knowledge

 

I would really like to see some form of base building. Now I understand that EAW wants to get away from that type of game and I can understand why in some respects, but as a defender, I still think it's only fair that you know where your troops, buildings, and such are prior to being attacked. As well, I think it's fair that the defender has some form of knowledge of the area since he occupies the planet.

 

The following image is a very quick idea of what I thought might work. Instead of the "movie" camera panning around planets, that space could be used to pop up a map of the planet. Then using the already built in grid system the user could place buildings and Build pads on the map where they think it would be best. If the user decided to just build the buildings without the map, then the AI would just place them where it would have anyway.

 

The enemy couldn't see this map, they would only see the standard screen showing that there are in fact buildings on the planet, but wouldn't have any other insight.

 

To me, this little bit of control would allow some strategy to take place instead of just suddenly scrambling around to try and figure out where things are when you are in battle. As well, it allows for some replay value because after a while it will become pretty easy to remember (Or write down) that on Tatooine the base is here, the build pads are here, and all you need to do to beat it is follow steps A to C to win!

 

http://www.mmmyeah.com/EAW/wish_list.jpg

 

2. Repair!

 

I've said it once, and we've all said it again. I think there will be major problems with the instant repair of ships and ground forces. I have already become frustrated as the IMP's have jumped from one planet to the next. Nothing drives me more insane then losing a battle, and a lot of ships, but taking a pretty huge chunk out of the IMP's just to have them show up on another planet a few seconds later at full strength to take out another one of my fleets.

 

This is just the computer we are talking about here. Imagine the hardcore gamers in the multiplayer world who figure out how to take two, or three forces and just keep jumping from planet to planet without any consequence? The fact is that you can't always consentrate on one ship and take it out, sometimes it just happens your force is only good enough to inflict damage.

 

To me, having some sort of repair delay would make things a whole lot more suspenseful. Imagine an IMP fleet with the intention of taking over your last base. They show up three planets out and you meet them there with your largest fleet. The battle goes horrible, and you lose the planet, but you are sure you damaged the fleet. Now the IMP's decide to push on without repair...you meet them again...BAM, you get wiped out, but you can see that they only have one SD left....and it's not doing so well.

 

Suddenly you see that one last SD heading for your base. You panic and scramble all fighters! The attack begins...your ships are taking a beating...you are sure you are going to lose...when suddenly out of your reinforcements comes Han and Chewy....they circle around and...BOOM!! The last SD goes down in flames!

 

Imagine how awesome that would be compared to the current way, which is the IMP Fleet takes out your fleet...then they show up at full strength and take out your already weak second fleet....then....well...we all know how this is going to end.

 

As you can guess, I really would like to see some form of repair or post battle delay.

 

3. Ground Force placement

 

If you take a look back to the image I posted you will see that I added a little box under the buildings. This is just a minor nit pick, but I think it would really help. As you all know when your planet population is full, the units converge in space...now they don't hide on the other side of the planet, or in a asteroid Field.....nope, they put themselves on the front lines. I will honestly uninstall this game in a second if I start losing whole fleets of troops to some multiplayer gamer who has figured out that one X-wing jumping from planet to planet (With instant repair) can take out everyone.

 

Sure you might be saying, "Well then you have to defend them better!" but honestly, when you are against the ropes, your only two planets are the only places you can build, there isn't always the option to keep them all defended.

 

I think the game needs to let the player have the reserves stored in a safe place. Have it on the opposite side of the planet, or simply on the planet. This could have a population cap as well, but at least give them a fighting chance!

 

If any of you have anything to add, please do!

 

Jeff

[Megajames]

please make sure this topic does not turn into an argument, thank you

[Ghostly_Substance]

please make sure this topic does not turn into an argument, thank you

 

And lets make sure your not a person who acts like a moderator thank you  ;D

 

edit: ok since I was unaware at what post I edited.....

Nice ideas there and hopefully you could somehow get those modded in  Well I had this idea of a scout cam which you would place and let it patrol the area as a normal sniper would. Once a unit comes into range it would make a beeping sound and give you video feedback. It would then snipe a hero (2 shots to kill a hero and one for troopers). If you dont want then it could just use its detenator to just blow up buildings undetected (if this is in ignore)  ;D

 

To clarify my quick edit, you would get 3 scouts to patrol 3 seperate areas and the scout would do what I said above (Snipe, detenate a building, and give you video feedback from another section of a map.)

Edited February 6, 2006 by Ghostly_Substance

[Megajames]

And lets make sure your not a person who acts like a moderator thank you  ;D

Ok, just trying to help the comunity, thank you  ;D

And we need to get back on topic, thank you  ;D

 

Ghostly- Sorry just re-edited back your message, thought this was my post  Damn school making me unaware.

 

Thats ok, school sucks with me as well

Edited February 6, 2006 by Megajames

[Saracen]

OK, getting back to the point at hand.

 

Every assumption about the demo has been made now. While it is too late to change the game mechanics now, it would be best if you created feedback on the full game.

 

The team, I'm sure, have already addressed these issues you have brought up. The demo in my opinion is far enough from the full game to be an issue of no real concern at this point in time. We must now focus on what the full game brings us, and not the demo.

[crazylegsmurphy]

Hey,

 

For sure, but I'm not even talking about the demo. It's been made quite clear in many ways that the no base building, instant repair, and planet pop cap are all going to be in the final game. Yes they may release a patch, but what I want to know is what issues are actually being looked at because being a starving student I can't really afford to drop $60 on games that I won't even play.

 

Right now I am torn between EAW and another unnamed game coming out soon, or just sticking to SWGB. These are the issues that I have found with the game that could be a make or break for me. Ya, of course everyone has an opinion, and there are a thousand things that people would like to see put into a game, but I think that the nice thing about these forums is that as a gaming community, if we suggest ideas, and then find a clear and concise way of letting the DEV's know that we all agree for the most part, we might just end up with an awesome game that we all enjoy.

 

With that said, I never rely on patches to fix a game, because (I'm not saying this company is like others) but I remember dropping $80 on a game called Falcon 4.0 back in the day, and by the time I saw even the idea of a patch, I was so frustrated by the game I gave it away. I just don't want to run out to the store on Feb 16th, drop $60, and come home to find the same problems that are in the demo, because I'm already getting a tad tired of the game because of the static nature of it.

[Teradyn_pff]

OK, getting back to the point at hand.

 

Every assumption about the demo has been made now. While it is too late to change the game mechanics now, it would be best if you created feedback on the full game.

 

The team, I'm sure, have already addressed these issues you have brought up. The demo in my opinion is far enough from the full game to be an issue of no real concern at this point in time. We must now focus on what the full game brings us, and not the demo.

 

The only problem is that the things mentioned in the thread starter's post are fundamental design issues that are not going to be changed come release.  We have discussed these issues with the Dev team and they have acknowledged them and told us that the way it works now is how it will be.

 

There is a very definite problem with what is being discussed here because there is 0% chance that major game engine elements will be modified post-launch.  These are going to be serious problems in any multiplayer games (and singleplayer for that matter).

 

Insta-Repair will be an exploit from the get-go.  It will be used constantly in each and every conflict.  You will see feints with capital ship heavy fleets that retreat quickly to get the free repair and come back, whitling away at your defenses.

 

There will be a detailed assault plan for each map that ships with the game because there is no possibility for changing where items are built.  Multiplayer galactic mode will be a lot more predictable on the ground and that spells boredom which will equate to lower enthusiasm for this portion of the game and lower reviews and sales as well.

 

These are serious game design flaws and if I were writing a review for this game, I would be listing these as problems with its design and not just complaining about the annoying cinematic camera.

[crazylegsmurphy]

There is a very definite problem with what is being discussed here because there is 0% chance that major game engine elements will be modified post-launch.  These are going to be serious problems in any multiplayer games (and singleplayer for that matter).

 

I'm honestly sorry if I am rehashing things that have been said to death. I understand that due to time and logistics that these elements won't be ready for the launch. If you are correct in that these issues won't be addressed at all, now or ever...then I think I may have to pass on this game for now.

 

For me the demo didn't do it. It exposed some very specific design flaws (in my opinion) that put up some major red flags for me. I know that my group of gaming friend won't stick around very long with the seemingly limited replay value. I mean, I have, like most of you some of the major mods installed, and while it's only the demo, take away all the nit picks and all that and the game basically gets really old, really fast.

 

I found myself tired of standing my troops in the open for the build pad thing. I'm tired of the space battles. I'm tired of having nothing else to do but click and drag ships to other planets. I really, really want to enjoy this game as I have been plugging it to all my friends for almost a year, but as the day draws closer I'm not sure I'm sold on it.

 

I suppose, what I am after is some sort of press release or something that list ALL of the features in the game, all of the planned patch features, and what we can expect from the game.

[deriko]

I think that the hit and run with lots of capital ships to get them repaired won't work very well. I found that when I retreated, my ships would take serious damage before getting out, and that a retreat can be very costly in the middle of a battle. So the only way to ensure that you don't lose any of your capital ships is to make sure that none of them get seriously hurt. But this wouldn't give you much time to accomplish much in the battle anyway. And while your retreating for a long 10 seconds, the defender could easily concentrate all of his fire on a capital ship and destroy it.

 

We also need to consider the population cap. I don't think that it will allow you to have enough ships to go hang out in the corner while other ships are fighting. The only ships that could get to the corner anyway would be the smaller, faster, and weaker ships. The capital ships move pretty slowly enough that it would take serious damage while trying to run away. And you can't retreat only a couple units at a time.

 

 

I do want repair in the game, I just don't think that it will be a major flaw to not have it in the game.

[crazylegsmurphy]

I hear what you are sayin. I too found that while the ships are preparing for the jump they are pretty much sitting ducks. They do take a lot of damage at this point because I think they actually stop fireing. However....I think that the "hit and run" will still work in some ways because all a player needs to do is keep the capital ships behind the fighters, and not let them get too far damaged.

 

You may have a point that the hit and run tactic won't work as flawlessly in practical battle, but I still think that it's going to cause issues when the defending force is already lacking in numbers.

[Teradyn_pff]

Well, imagine this... the enemy comes at you with 5 ISDs....   If you happen to have some Correlian Corvettes, you should be fine in this engagement, but if not... expect to lose some fighters (at the least) or even a capital ship or your starbase.  Meanwhile... the ISDs sit in a corner covering each other in case you want to attack with everything you have.... when they see you coming, they initiate a retreat.   Unless your Y-Wings avoided the Tie Fighters somehow, you will not be able to completely destroy an ISD before they can jump.

 

There are variations to this, but if you wipe out an isd's shield gen, hangar and most of its weapons... that 5900 credit replacement that the enemy doesn't have to buy because he can jump out will come back in the form of another ISD instead of a replacement or repairs for the one you damaged.

 

This just doesn't seem right.  It kind of takes away the entire "persistency idea".  It is too late to change it now, but it is not something that we can mod to correct like we can with the accuracy issue and the damage problem.  This is my major disappointment.

[crazylegsmurphy]

Damn! That sucks!

 

You seasoned gamers who know the ins and outs of how these games work will slaughter casual gamers like me! You are right though, thinking about it you have to wonder why they decided to take that element out in the first place. (It apparently was in the original code, but got axed when the focus group said they didn't like to wait for repairs)

 

Your word disapointment is an understatement indeed. What this basically means is that I probably wouldn't even waste my time playing online with a gaming community because I simply don't have the time to get into a 4 hour Galactic struggle only to have the person I'm playing against pull these sorts of things.

 

I have spent most of the day searching every forum on the net looking for answers and the best I can tell, Petroglyph has no intention of adding this feature back in....so it looks like I might be passing on this game. I mean I'm sure it'll be fun and all, but $60 is too much to spend to deal with stuff like this.

 

I guess the thing that kind of upsets me the most is that even though Petroglyph seems good with answering questions, they also seem really good at casually beating around the bush. It seems to me that basically all the gamers want is some straight forward answers as to what is in the game, and what isn't...what will be added, and what the Dev team has no intention of adding.

 

I'm not a big fan of, "Ohhhh, wait and see...we're sure you'll be happy!" because when it comes to computer games (no resale value) and the money to buy them, I really want to know how it plays, and how fun it is. I suppose this might be one of those, "Wait for the add on" games where you don't buy it until enough people have complained so they actually change it.

[crazylegsmurphy]

Will Damage always intant repair in Galactic Campaign as seen in the Demo or can we expect some form of repair?

 

Yes, but the galactic mode runs under a different time scale. A day isn't really an earth day. We wanted to take the work out and just get back to the fun.

 

That was from the Dev Chat a while ago....but, does anyone know what that even means. He answered "Yes" for both questions. I don't understand how a different time scale would make any difference. Does anyone know what this actually means?

[Delphi-PG]

All very good suggestions, thanks!  ;D

 

Interesting to see the idea about base customization.

 

You guys are aware there are penalties in place for retreat?  When initiated, the player on the retreat will take 4x damage, also ships can't be moved during this process. There a lot more too it, but I thought this would help.

 

Instant repair?  I know many of you hard core have issues, but if you have a company of 40 plus people who developed the game and love the idea vs repair overtime and 100's of focus testers from the hardcore to casual that voted IR; it's a bit hard to argue. Honestly, there are about 10 other things I'd like to see in the game before we go back and visit this as a game idea. Who's to say we won't? I just want my 10 other things first. 

[Guest]

You guys are aware there are penalties in place for retreat?  When initiated, the player on the retreat will take 4x damage, also ships can't be moved during this process. There a lot more too it, but I thought this would help.

 

4X the damage? is there a point for that? I thought that retreating was supposed to reduce losses

 

if it's gonna be like that then I'd have every man fight to the last breath and take down as many as I can

[Delphi-PG]

4X the damage? is there a point for that? I thought that retreating was supposed to reduce losses

 

It does, but requires the player to use more tactics and strategies when engaging the enemy.  If your units get away, they get away safely.  =) 

[vasuba_pff]

4X the damage? is there a point for that? I thought that retreating was supposed to reduce losses

 

It does, but requires the player to use more tactics and strategies when engaging the enemy.  If your units get away, they get away safely.  =) 

 

It actually make sperfect sense really. If your gonna suddenly decide to retreat with your fleet surrounded it makes sense your gonna get pounded. Hyperdrive isnt instant it requires plotting coordinates etc and during that time youd be very vulnerable. so delphi and the others got that part right on

[crazylegsmurphy]

All very good suggestions, thanks!  ;D

 

Interesting to see the idea about base customization.

 

You guys are aware there are penalties in place for retreat?  When initiated, the player on the retreat will take 4x damage, also ships can't be moved during this process. There a lot more too it, but I thought this would help.

 

Instant repair?  I know many of you hard core have issues, but if you have a company of 40 plus people who developed the game and love the idea vs repair overtime and 100's of focus testers from the hardcore to casual that voted IR; it's a bit hard to argue. Honestly, there are about 10 other things I'd like to see in the game before we go back and visit this as a game idea. Who's to say we won't? I just want my 10 other things first. 

 

Oh Delphi-PG you crazy guy!

 

It really does help when someone sits down and just says whats what. I suppose I'll have to wait and see....of course you all know that I'm going to buy this game regardless, and I'll take your word it's gonna be cool.

 

I did notice in the mod that when I retreated most of my ships were slammed right before hyperspace which is good. That puts my mind at ease on that subject....I just hope that you guys have something in place to stop the inst-o-repair planet jumping issue.

 

Thanks for replying...

 

*psst...keep an open mind on that base building idea, I really think it would help stop people from memorizing the bases and kicking people's butts. I mean your not technically base building, you're just placing the icons...I mean geez even if we could see that map as a defender that would be good enough in some ways*

[Teradyn_pff]

Hey, Delphi.  If the plans are not official, would it be a bad thing for you to share what those 10 things are that you would like to see?   I am sure that that would be a very good topic for discussion.

 

Guys, take this into consideration... retreat is not necessarily for the deployed forces that you have... it is largely for the forces you haven't committed to the battle (because of the pop cap).  While you can just not call them in for reinforcements and just lose the battle that way, the possibility of having some of your bigger ships survive just long enough to make the jump is that much better.

 

The one thing that I absolutely do not agree with, is the cesation of firing by the retreating vessels.  And I also think that the Empire's fighters and bombers should not be stuck with the group leaving as there would be no way to recover the fighters for the jump and their only option would be to fight to the death anyway (having no hyperdrives of their own).

 

Keep in mind people that the only thing you need to do to make the enemy think twice about retreat is to use your bombers to take out their engines at the earliest opportunity.  And if you have the enemy out-gunned and they try to jump at the outset, try to get there with your bombers as fast as you can and take out their engines while they are trying to jump.  A ship without engines is completely lost when the rest of the fleet makes the jump.... I personally think the battle aught to continue with those ships left there, but unfortunately, that is an engine design change that will not be moddable.

 

The solution to this and what I would have suggested after a small amount of playtesting would be for each ship to be able to be retreated individually.  Of course the insta-repair issue would absolutely have to be fixed before this could be done, so according to the responses of their testers and group none of it would have been implemented if it had been suggested anyway.

[Cain]

Hey, Delphi.  If the plans are not official, would it be a bad thing for you to share what those 10 things are that you would like to see?   I am sure that that would be a very good topic for discussion.

 

I imagined the game was perfect .... mmmm ....Why does Delphi want 10 things more? 

[Nevets]

My top 10 wish list:

 

10) Base customization

 

9) Hero Customization

 

8 ) More heroes/ Hero Death

 

7) More units

 

6) Persistant damage

 

5) Can include troops in ranks from planets under your control (wookiees, sullust, mon cal...not jawas or ewoks). Maybe this would only be a rebel ability.

 

4) 2+ player galactic conquest.

 

3) More sandbox play

 

2) More realism/ Using already established star wars history

 

1) Diplomacy

[Darth Tyrant]

1)After playing the demo I have to say that I wish EAW have some sort of diplomacy to take control of planets involving heroes like in rebellion, because right now heroes are only good for combat and thats it. Right now the way to take control of planets is to send a squad or two of storm troopers or rebels troopers and there you have it. It's going to become a rush war, where the fastest player that sends his troops to lots of planet is the one that is going to be ahead of the other. The only thing wrong about that system is that it gets boring, because there are no hero involvement on taking planets.

 

2) Other thing that I wish to see on EAW is some sort of quick battle like in rebellion. Controling every battle on land and space is awesom in EAW, but if you choose the glactic control option of 43 planets, you are going to get bored after taking of lets say 20 enemy planets, do the math: lets say that the enemy controls 20 planets, to take control of a planet you have to  fight two battles, one in space and one on land, thats 40 battles in total. My friends, after 40 battles, you will only whish to create the death star and blow the remaning 23 planets to hell, lol. ;D

[MerLock]

I like the game the way it is. What made starcraft so great was its balance and simplicity. No need to repair and no diplomacy. Just go in and have a good skirmish game is where it's at.

[Nevets]

The main thing I want to see with diplomacy is with diplomats or instigators you can send them to a planet before you invade. If they are sucessful and you go to capture the planet some of the enemies stuff will already be destoryed and when you land they will help your cause, it would feel much more like an uprising then when they are automatically helping one side. If you use the locals too much tho as shields or fodder then you will start to lose favor with them.

[paladinmatt5]

I would like to see more factions, each with their own strengths and weaknesses. I've heard that might be in the expansions.

 

I just think it will be great to do what if scenarios. Clone Troopers vs. Storm troopers. Rebels vs. CIS. Old Republic vs. Yuuzhan Vong. etc.

 

Maybe even throw in some playable neutral factions, like pirates, or smugglers.