Re: ISD lack of anti fighter weponary

[Teradyn_pff]

You can't keep you fighters back when they are auto-spawning out of the imperial ships!!!

[raydude]

Watch 'The Beast', which is about eighties tanks from the Soviet Union and you'll see just how obviously effective even those old things are against infantry. Heck, those ones even had a flamethrower on and ability to disperse chemical grenades!

 

Please do us a favor and tell us how "The Beast" ends. Actually, since it is based on the Soviet war in Afghanistan we know exactly how it ends. The Soviets, with their superior technology and firepower (aka the Empire) lose to some RPG weilding mujahadeen (aka the rebels).

[Eliminator]

Well, the SW databank doesn't list the weapons of the Imperial Star Destroyer, but it does list the Mon Cals weapons:

 

 

 

 

Homeworld:

Mon Calamari

 

Size:

1,200 meters long

 

Type:

Capital ship cruiser

 

Weapon:

Laser cannons, turbolasers, tractor beams

 

Affiliation:

Rebel Alliance

 

Associations:

Ackbar, Admiral

Mon Calamari

 

 

 

 

 

 

"The gentle Mon Calamari people brought more than their determination to restore freedom to the galaxy when they joined the Rebel Alliance. They also brought a fleet of powerful capital ships. These immense vehicles were a startling contrast to the rectilinear shapes favored by the Imperial fleet. Whereas the Imperial Star Destroyer resembles a pointed dagger in shape, a Mon Calamari cruiser lacks hard angles, and is covered with ovoid forms suggesting an organic sculpture.

Despite their smooth lines, these vessels pack an enormous punch. Turbolasers, ion cannons, tractor beam projectors and shield generators dot the flowing surface of the ships.

 

Perhaps the most important Mon Cal cruiser during the Galactic Civil War was Home One, the Headquarters Frigate that served as Admiral Ackbar's flagship, and the traveling headquarters of the Rebel Alliance after the Battle of Hoth. Home One engaged Imperial vessels during the Battle of Endor, and survived intact. Other Mon Cal cruisers weren't so lucky -- several were atomized by searingly powerful blasts from the second Death Star's superlaser cannon."

[Xenomorphine]

Please do us a favor and tell us how "The Beast" ends. Actually, since it is based on the Soviet war in Afghanistan we know exactly how it ends. The Soviets, with their superior technology and firepower (aka the Empire) lose to some RPG weilding mujahadeen (aka the rebels).

 

You're not thinking in the right way...

 

The tank actually lasts for a extremely long time. The fault in the story is the tank commander's unhinged mind and the fact that the vehicle has a couple of instances where it breaks down, suffers from a misfire, starts leaking fuel and all the rest of that.

 

The biggest problem, in the story, was that it got separated from the rest.

 

It's actually shown as quite formidable against ordinary people when it actually works! They used actual Russian tanks (and Russian helicopters) of the time, which is surprising, because the film was made in the eighties, but it certainly gives a feeling of it operating in the expected way.

 

It even has a very primitive motion sensor package, although they had to physically get out and place the equipment down on the ground in a circular arrangement.

 

The faults were in the engineering and crew, basically. Not the variety of weapons!

[Guest]

GIR spoke of point defense laser cannons, well capital ships actually are equipped with some sort of anti-starfighter weaponry. Proof of this is in the movies:

 

in ROTS= when anakin and obiwan's interceptors where flying toward the Invisible Hand, the ship itself was firing on them and you can see several laser bolts coming from various places on the hull and narrowly missing them

 

in ESB= the millenium falcon was pursued by several Star destroyers, you will notice that lasers are firing at the MC from various places on the SDs and they were accurate enough to hit or to be a near miss that implies that it had point defense laser cannons.

 

in ROTJ= when the Executor's sheilds go down the commander says to "intensify the forward firepower! I don't want anything getting through!" moments before the A-wing hits the bridge an X-wing is shot down by several lasers that were coming from the surface of the executor.

 

So capital ships should actually have suffcient anti-fighter capability 

[raydude]

GIR spoke of point defense laser cannons, well capital ships actually are equipped with some sort of anti-starfighter weaponry. Proof of this is in the movies:

 

in ROTS= when anakin and obiwan's interceptors where flying toward the Invisible Hand, the ship itself was firing on them and you can see several laser bolts coming from various places on the hull and narrowly missing them

 

in ESB= the millenium falcon was pursued by several Star destroyers, you will notice that lasers are firing at the MC from various places on the SDs and they were accurate enough to hit or to be a near miss that implies that it had point defense laser cannons.

 

in ROTJ= when the Executor's sheilds go down the commander says to "intensify the forward firepower! I don't want anything getting through!" moments before the A-wing hits the bridge an X-wing is shot down by several lasers that were coming from the surface of the executor.

 

So capital ships should actually have suffcient anti-fighter capability 

 

I would question whether they were sufficient as shown in the movies. If sufficient then the Millenium Falcon should have faced the full fury of an anti-fighter barrage. As the movie showed, it was only coming from a few places on the SD.

 

For example, WW2 aircraft carriers had the capability to shoot down fighters with anti-aircraft guns. There were a few at various points on the ship. There wasn't sufficient anti-aircraft capability though, which is why they always traveled with destroyers and cruisers which added their firepower to the anti-aircraft barrage.  Just pointing out that there is a difference between having capability and having sufficient capability.

[Guest]

you forget that the millenium falcon was also pursued by TIE fighters as well, if the SD probably didn't want to destroy it's own fighters, that's probably why it was holding back with the lasers. And you'll notice that in the other examples you see more lasers firing from the capital ships at the enemy fighters because in those scenes the fighters were not pursued by freindly fighters.

[paladinmatt5]

hm the general problem is the stone... thing it shouldn t be the source of balancing

why did they useinfantry in ww2??? because it was cheap....

so why not make VERY expensive things almighty(Moncal ISD VSD) and the Isd is extremly strong versus capital ships [like in the film] whereas Mon Cal is almighty but loses to a ISD ??????????

 

They used infantry in WW2 for the same reason they still use it today...because you will always need foot soldiers to hold ground. No matter how hi tech you get, or how much money you have, you will always need men on the ground to hold territory.

 

In real life, Military orginzations raely choose equipment that's 'Jack-of-all-trades'. The prefer specialized hardware and personal. The ISD should have minimal point defenses, but not overwhelming. It has fighters and support ships to handle fighter defense.

[Guest]

well here in real life things are kinda constricted aren't they?  well because our technology is kinda limited.

 

On the other hand having a huge "jack of all trades" space ship sounds perfectly plausible

[kingdark]

When i personaly think of a big ship like the isd, i figure it would have not ony the big weapons but also smaller stations to target the fighters.

think of han solo ships.

they need to go to a cockpit to be able to fire the weapons, but han solo is also able to fire the weapons from his place, while chewie is giving him the status of the ship.

think all the primary and secundary weapons gone.. only engines remain, should that make the ship powerless? NO!

it should have smaller stations that target the fighters!

[Joebwan]

I would question whether they were sufficient as shown in the movies. If sufficient then the Millenium Falcon should have faced the full fury of an anti-fighter barrage. As the movie showed, it was only coming from a few places on the SD.

 

For example, WW2 aircraft carriers had the capability to shoot down fighters with anti-aircraft guns. There were a few at various points on the ship. There wasn't sufficient anti-aircraft capability though, which is why they always traveled with destroyers and cruisers which added their firepower to the anti-aircraft barrage.  Just pointing out that there is a difference between having capability and having sufficient capability.

 

This is correct. The Star Destroyer is closer to an Aircraft Carrier or a Battleship of WWII era. Both of those kinds of ships were literally bristling with anti-aircraft guns, yet were sill very vulnerable to bomber attack. If caught alone and without fighter cover, even a small contingent of bombers would spell certain doom. Star Destroyers and other capital ships follow this model. There are also balancing reasons that this model is followed since a ship that could defend against all threats as well as have the firepower of a Star Destroyer would make unit force mix strategy almost meaningless as there would be only one "best choice" ship to buy.

[Guest]

This is correct. The Star Destroyer is closer to an Aircraft Carrier or a Battleship of WWII era. Both of those kinds of ships were literally bristling with anti-aircraft guns, yet were sill very vulnerable to bomber attack. If caught alone and without fighter cover, even a small contingent of bombers would spell certain doom. Star Destroyers and other capital ships follow this model. There are also balancing reasons that this model is followed since a ship that could defend against all threats as well as have the firepower of a Star Destroyer would make unit force mix strategy almost meaningless as there would be only one "best choice" ship to buy.

as there would be only one "best choice" ship to buy.

  that was kinda the point of Star destroyers. But for the sake of gameplay yes. In SW reality the empire only used other capital ships for things like patrols and whatnot.