ElvisMiggell Posted June 11, 2003 Share Posted June 11, 2003 Not convinced about the two hour thing. Yes it's supposed to be an hour between shots, but that doesn't specify how big the ship is... Elvismiggell. Strike me down and i will become more powerful than you can ever imagine... Nu kyr'adyc, shi taab'echaaj'la Not gone, merely marching far away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOCL Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 SOCL (what's that short for anyway)There's a thread called "What does SOCL mean?" in the forum "General Discussion" (I hope it's still there and open). PM me if that doesn't help. Not convinced about the two hour thing. Yes it's supposed to be an hour between shots, but that doesn't specify how big the ship is...Point! SOCL: Putting the BE in BEAK.Read the Forum Rules - Welcome the New Members - Rebellion Reloaded - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scathane Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 How big which ship is, the DSII? Why does that matter? (believe me, I've scrolled through this thread but I couldn't find anything about the DS size ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOCL Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 How big which ship is, the DSII? Why does that matter? (believe me, I've scrolled through this thread but I couldn't find anything about the DS size )I think Elvis got two separte threads confused (I do that a lot too and in agreeing with him, I showed that). SOCL: Putting the BE in BEAK.Read the Forum Rules - Welcome the New Members - Rebellion Reloaded - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igorimp Posted June 13, 2003 Author Share Posted June 13, 2003 Death Star II was 160 km in size. But I think it doesn't matter how large the target ship is, because: 1 DS shot can destroy a planet of cca 12756 km (Earth) while rechargeing for 1 day. Since the number is for our planet, I guess the blast can take away a planet twice that size to be sure. Now, if we divide that avg. number by 24 (number of hours a day), you would get a figure that would say that a DS can, once every hour, destroy a starship of up to 531,5 km (that's twice it's own size). That would essentially mean that the superlaser would be enough recharged to fire at a classical capital (cca 2 km) starship PRACTICLY LESS THEN EVERY MINUTE! However, that's not realistic! I think the recharge rate has nothing to do with target size, but power requirments. Think this, a simple blaster bolt requires a certain amount of energy, regarthless of wheater that same blast destroys a starship or simply damages it. In addition, I think a ONE HOUR rate is realistic, as the bloody station has to COOL DOWN from fireing. The entire station is basicly build around the superlaser and the amount of heating and radiation that thing produces would be big enough to MELT DOWN the bloody thing after four one-minute firings. (the thing costs billions and it MELTS DOWN?) That would be a bit realistic ending to the battle - the Rebels providing the Imps so many targets to shoot at that the station overheates and melts into Endors orbit... There is only one life;There is only one truth;There is only one EMPEROR'S GRAND PLAN. By the way, the Emperor's not dead... he's just resting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOCL Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 Hey, guys, I think igorimp is offically part of the BEAK Imperium. SOCL: Putting the BE in BEAK.Read the Forum Rules - Welcome the New Members - Rebellion Reloaded - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElvisMiggell Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 True, true, but you could easily argue that it was able to fire somewhere between every 10 - 30 minutes. After all, the shielding has to be such that a planet destroying blast won't melt it, so something many thousands of times less powerful shouldn't be anything like as much of a problem. Elvismiggell. Strike me down and i will become more powerful than you can ever imagine... Nu kyr'adyc, shi taab'echaaj'la Not gone, merely marching far away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igorimp Posted June 13, 2003 Author Share Posted June 13, 2003 What the (BLIP) is a BEAK Imperium?! Elvis speaks truth in regards of shielding, but because the Death Star manual from West End Games mentions one hour, I've taken it as a focus point. We could argue about this for ages as there are arguments for both sides, but in the end it all comes down to LucasFilms sloppiness in designing the films and not really underlining them with any real technical data or info. Sad, really. There is only one life;There is only one truth;There is only one EMPEROR'S GRAND PLAN. By the way, the Emperor's not dead... he's just resting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOCL Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 Elvis speaks truth in regards of shielding, but because the Death Star manual from West End Games mentions one hour, I've taken it as a focus point. We could argue about this for ages as there are arguments for both sides, but in the end it all comes down to LucasFilms sloppiness in designing the films and not really underlining them with any real technical data or info. Sad, really. Yes, just like many other things in the SW universe, the Death Star has been problems in the fact that GL and his staff did not watch out for the little mistakes that we, the fans, would later go crazy over. Trust me, I've had my fair share of breakdowns over problems in SW throughout these forums (Scath, Trej, and Jahled will probably agree). What the (BLIP) is a BEAK Imperium?! Do you really want to know?... SOCL: Putting the BE in BEAK.Read the Forum Rules - Welcome the New Members - Rebellion Reloaded - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scathane Posted June 14, 2003 Share Posted June 14, 2003 For once, I'd like to be on GL's side... True, there's a lot of stuff in the movies that's not quite right with regard to continuity... But on the other hand, Star Wars has become quite a complex universe... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOCL Posted June 14, 2003 Share Posted June 14, 2003 For once, I'd like to be on GL's side... True, there's a lot of stuff in the movies that's not quite right with regard to continuity... But on the other hand, Star Wars has become quite a complex universe...I suppose I can see how GL could get lost in the SW universe. And then again, most people think he's as much a hardcore fan as we are, but if you really look at him and how he talks about SW and how he acts about...he's really not: he just cares about his movies, the rest he disregards. SOCL: Putting the BE in BEAK.Read the Forum Rules - Welcome the New Members - Rebellion Reloaded - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igorimp Posted June 14, 2003 Author Share Posted June 14, 2003 igorimp wrote: What the (BLIP) is a BEAK Imperium?! Do you really want to know?... OK, I guess not... As for GL, he may be a fan of his own movies, but not to the extent that is needed to sort out details. I think it should be his duty, as the creator of this world, to sort out all details before publishing his material. That way, millions of fans won't have to break their nerves discussing minor details in forums like this... There is only one life;There is only one truth;There is only one EMPEROR'S GRAND PLAN. By the way, the Emperor's not dead... he's just resting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOCL Posted June 14, 2003 Share Posted June 14, 2003 As for GL, he may be a fan of his own movies, but not to the extent that is needed to sort out details. I think it should be his duty, as the creator of this world, to sort out all details before publishing his material. That way, millions of fans won't have to break their nerves discussing minor details in forums like this... My words exactly. Okay, the BEAK Imperium is something around here. BEAK stands for Boring Explanations And Korrections (yes, we realize the irony to korrections), but don't worry, it's not truly an insult to anyone else put me. It's all rooted in a LONG explanation--which was, apparently, boring--I gave back when I first joined over ranks and rank insignia, and how the forum rank insignia are wrong and should be corrected. I am the Grand Imperator of BEAK, the leader of all of this. Scath could probably fill you in even better than I.Speaking of the forum ranks, I e-mailed JediIgor at last to see what he says about correcting them...now I'm awaiting a response.... SOCL: Putting the BE in BEAK.Read the Forum Rules - Welcome the New Members - Rebellion Reloaded - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igorimp Posted June 14, 2003 Author Share Posted June 14, 2003 My master! I now realize I belong to the BEAK Imperium! Your words have spoken directly to my heart and I now see my true loyalty. Let us join our BEAK forces together... and we can smite the BEAK forces that rule this world - yes, I'm talking about Trekkies; for there are no greater BEAK-ers then them... Hmm, what does that say about us?! We're not really ANYTHING like them, are we??????!!!!! There is only one life;There is only one truth;There is only one EMPEROR'S GRAND PLAN. By the way, the Emperor's not dead... he's just resting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOCL Posted June 14, 2003 Share Posted June 14, 2003 We're not really ANYTHING like them, are we??????!!!!! Of course not! We are better than those darn trekkies! Excellent, a BEAK apprentice.... SOCL: Putting the BE in BEAK.Read the Forum Rules - Welcome the New Members - Rebellion Reloaded - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Likinsman Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 I have two things to add to this discussion.First: Glandry, Obi-wan was trained by Yoda before he was taken as a padawan by Qui-gon.Second: Concerning time of the battle and Death Star recharge rate, In the book Essential guide to Vehicles and Vessels it states that the Second death star's super laser could be recharged in a matter of minutes instead of hours. I hope this info isnt to late but o well. GGGGRRRRLLLLLL!!!!!!!-Chewbacca Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igorimp Posted July 25, 2003 Author Share Posted July 25, 2003 You may have a point about the Death Star (I haven't really looked through the essential guide), but the question that raises is whether the Essential Guide or the Death Star Sourcebook is more correct on the matter (read: Del Ray Books or West End Games???)... Personnaly, I take it all with a grain of salt if it's not from LucasFilms... There is only one life;There is only one truth;There is only one EMPEROR'S GRAND PLAN. By the way, the Emperor's not dead... he's just resting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scathane Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 It's never too late to add interesting information, Likinsman! With regard to you point and igorimps answer, that's exactly the point of discrepancy, now isn't it? Most unofficial sources on Star Wars (such as the Technical Commentaries) consider the movies to be the authorative source. Not surprisingly, because this is what Star Wars originally is. Apart from that, I find it hard to believe that this kind of technological advance to be discovered within three years of the original project (the DS I)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoShek Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 Ok, here goes what will be considered a very unpopular opinion: Imp fans: Stop beeing such whiners! "Oww, our glorious powerful Empire is kaputt! No fair! We should have won!" Of course the Rebels won. Who could possibly want a different ending? Vader and the Emperor slaughter or capture the heroes, annihilate the Alliance and happily go on blowing up peaceful unarmed planets along with billions of innocent people? The idea is enough to make you sick. The good guys alway win. Since when do action movies or fairy tales have to be realistic? I for one would rather enjoy an unrealistic happy ending showing how good ultimately triumphs over evil than trot out of the cinema convinced that all efforts are in vain, because the evil empire is just too powerful. The almighty Empire squashes the puny but virtuous Rebels who never had a real chance in the first place. Great story. I´m sure millions would flock to the movie theaters to watch three entire films about this. *sarcasm alert* I also find the nitpicking tiring by people quoting some reference that was put together years after the film by peolpe who did not have to worry about making a movie people enjoy. Although they contradict the original story (the films) somehow they are considered more acurate than the real thing. I honestly think GL doesn´t have to take the rap from them. Its much easier to criticise later than come up with a compelling story. In my opinion there´s always an explanation even for the seemingly improbable. At leas the Thrawn Theory tries to make sense out of the "facts" of the imperial defeat at Endor instead of crying "We were robbed!". To me there were probably just too many mistakes made. Maybe the Emperor made his trap a little TOO inviting by reducing troops on the Endor moon, maybe the imperial fleet pulled their punches to relish the imminent victory more ("I think you overestimate their chances!"). IT SIMPLY DOESN´t MATTER. The story goes that way its moot to whine about it. If you can´t live with tha battle of Endor, maybe you should just watch TESB over and over and pretent ROTJ didn´t happen. So , rant over .... Assassinate me for it, but this needed to be said. Anyone who wants to get back at me for this is invited to stomp my Rebels in a game of Rebellion. I´m not very good yet. Here goes nothing! - Lando Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scathane Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 The good guys alway win. Since when do action movies or fairy tales have to be realistic? I for one would rather enjoy an unrealistic happy ending showing how good ultimately triumphs over evil than trot out of the cinema convinced that all efforts are in vain, because the evil empire is just too powerful. The almighty Empire squashes the puny but virtuous Rebels who never had a real chance in the first place. Great story. I´m sure millions would flock to the movie theaters to watch three entire films about this. *sarcasm alert* You're right... Sometimes we don't give GL enough credit for his creation. We all diss the prequesl and yet we're all looking forward to what Episode III will bring us... OkI also find the nitpicking tiring by people quoting some reference that was put together years after the film by peolpe who did not have to worry about making a movie people enjoy. Although they contradict the original story (the films) somehow they are considered more acurate than the real thing. I honestly think GL doesn´t have to take the rap from them. Its much easier to criticise later than come up with a compelling story. I applaud you, for indeed it is! nevertheless, I do like the Star Wars Technical Commentaries, since Saxton takes the what if approach... He's simply saying: Let's look at how the movies portrayed it and see what the consequences would have been, if it were a real, physical universe. Moreover, he takes the movies as the primary authority. In my opinion there´s always an explanation even for the seemingly improbable. At leas the Thrawn Theory tries to make sense out of the "facts" of the imperial defeat at Endor instead of crying "We were robbed!". What was that Thrawn Theory again? So , rant over .... Assassinate me for it, but this needed to be said. No, no, I think you're right... although I'll probably assassinate you verbally in some other thread anyway for the sheer fun of it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceRogue1 Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 I agree completely.These guys think everything in the SW movies has to live upto THEIR expectations of REALISM.Are you guys fucking insane. You are arguing over the REALISM of a SCIENCE FICTION MOVIE, that claims it is not real, so GL can do whatever he wants in the movies, cuz he invented SW.AND the DS2 could fire in a matter of minutes, the battle didnt last that long.Also you ppl SHOULD know that the Executor and other ISDs hardly fight, because the Emperor wanted to show his "surprise". Remember Piett telling his men to not fire.Also if u watch the movie, u WONT see 10,000 Stormys, whoever made that up is a fool and there were PLENTY more ewoks. and really, we hardly see Stormys hit a target, apart from the very first gunfight on the Tantive IV.People should also see the Ewoks do get toasted on the ground, but once Chewie gets the AT-ST, the imps have not way to win, because they wouldnt fire on their own AT-ST. All this comes down to "good guys win" theory.I have to admit i love the ROTJ ending.So all you Imps, just watch ESB for your glory days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoShek Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 I agree completely. Thanks for your support but I was hoping for some harsh criticism to get a discussion going. So: come on you Imps. P.S.: Also I think "fucking insane" is a little over the top. Here goes nothing! - Lando Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoShek Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 ... although I'll probably assassinate you verbally in some other thread anyway for the sheer fun of it! Take your best shot! You will need it. Here goes nothing! - Lando Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Likinsman Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 Im not reallly trying to argue over how the battle was unfair or technical readouts of a battle station, its just hard for me to find anyone to discuss and show my knowledge of Star Wars and EU with. My friends are stuck playing Halo. GGGGRRRRLLLLLL!!!!!!!-Chewbacca Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trejiuvanat Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 The DSII could reacharge in matter of minutes. but the Ackbar Slash made it more difficult to use the DSII in the battle. The battle did last more than just minutes...The essential guide is from Del Rey and Lucasbooks. Scath, you should read the Thrawn Trilogy, you really should...And Ace: Moderate your language...WE argue about how realistic ROTJ was, but what about the ending of TPM, or the ending of AOTC or ANH??? Only Hoth was realistic enough... http://www.swrebellion.com/~jahled/Trej/banner.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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