Venator is out... Officially

[Little.B]

the game just isn't adding up to be great or awesome.

What information do you have to judge the game this way?

 

Ok. Perhaps I have... exaggerated a bit. But I am simply pissed off seeing people saying bad things about the game for the last months. I simply recall threads were people complained that the SDs do not seem to have the right amount of turbolaser batteries. I'm sorry but many people wanted this game to be a second Rebellion. But we all knew that it is not. Many people say that the are not juding the game, but be honest, they are. You are pissed of that the game does not have the content you hoped it will have. Thats okay. But just wait for the game. You will have the demo this month and then we can begin to judge. Right now we can only say that we do not like the decision but we should stop here. There is no need to blame anybody for something we have no proof that they did it. Just keep calm...

 

I also don't like that B-Wings and TIE-Is arent in but perhaps I do not miss them in the final game. Who knows? I don't.

 

we're concerned about what seems to be strong apathy on the part of LucasArts towards making this a quality game

We do not even know if this were Lucas Arts decisions. I'm quiet sure that many were decisions made by Petroglyph. Why should LA force Petro to take content out of the game? They simply tell Petro what they can use of their ideas (those which do not offense the license) and Petro uses what they want to have in. So if you want to know why this and that unit is not in you should simply ask Petro, not LA. /IMHO

[Grand Admiral Thrawn 889]

ok so what the game isn't adding up to what you expected of it but what you expect ios probably higher than anything that can be supported by the usual computer and as the game is for Widespread distribution they have to rate down what it can do to allow a medium spec pc run it with minimal or no upgrades.

[Avaris]

Lucasarts being the Publisher have every right to lay down what should go in their game. Afterall, its THEIR money thats making this game.

 

They have every right. But why are you taking our rights from us? Don't we have the right to complain if we are not satisfied with the direction of the game? As fans, shouldn't we voice our opinions about what they choose to "lay down"? Afterall, its OUR money that will be paying for the game. You speak as though they are spending a bunch of money on the game only to give it away for free. (In which case, of course we shouldn't complain). But it is THIER money making it, but the expectation is to make the money back from us, plus a lot more. So ultimately, it is OUR money. Therefore, voicing concerns (if they are listening) leads to happier fans and thus, more "profit" for them.

 

To claim that Lucasarts 'have lied' is utter rubbish. Street dates are always pushed back, games are delayed and tough decisions are made about design, gameplay, levels, what to keep or remove all the time.

 

Eh.. i dont really feel that they "lied". That is a rather silly argument, especially about the release date (Those always change). However, I feel slightly mislead when it comes to modality, scope of the game, quality of multiplayer (gamespy), importance of fan opinion, and expectations of news/information (Q&A's, Dev Diaries), and a few other things.

 

We live in a world of choice. If you don't like it, don't buy it. Its as simple as that. As for expansions. Every single decent RTS has produced an expansion. It gives us more content, its gives both the publisher and developer a boost in extra funds to make more games.

 

We live in a world of choice, I agree. Why can't I choose to complain about the direction of the game? I have not played it and there are many things I can't speak about. But, why can't I speak to the things that I do know and disagree with? I can choose not to buy it....but I am somehow being unreasonable by discussing the things I don't like?

 

And yes, expansions are good. But there should be an expectation of a complete game upon release. There is PLENTY of content in the starwars universe to make several expansions. Limiting the scope of the game to a few short years and a few vehicles isn't needed to ensure the ability to make an expansion at a latter date.

 

Lets change the record and focus on the impending release rather than debate topics that are pointless (and I can see 3 of them all about the same thing).

 

This is a discussion board. What are we supposed to do but discuss and debate? Talking about recent news is pointless? But having lengthly conversations in the "gameplay and tactics" room makes sense? We have no game, so let us talk about the things that we do have. Right now, those things are not appearing well. If the game is great, then these debates will end.

 

ok so what the game isn't adding up to what you expected of it but what you expect ios probably higher than anything that can be supported by the usual computer and as the game is for Widespread distribution they have to rate down what it can do to allow a medium spec pc run it with minimal or no upgrades.

 

But the game minimums are not at industry standards. Most major releases last year were in the 1.5-2.0 requirement. This is at 1.0 and released AFTER all the games with much higher requirements.

 

No game is released perfect. But they become over time by the help of the community.

 

So, this is a free ticket for design teams to cut corners and not live up to expectations? "Guys, we know its not what you wanted our expected...but please remember that no game is perfect. We'll make it up to you a few patches down the road. Oh, and please save up for the expansion pack. Its already 90% done and have all the units you are waiting for! So start getting excited!"

[Grand Admiral Thrawn 889]

can Bashing LEC be Kept to the LEC forums please Cain has already said that this is an Unofficial Forum that wants to Thank the Good People at LEC and PEtro for all their hard work!

[Nevets]

But please, don't make it half starwars and half something else, so that it sells as many compies as command and conquer.

Yes... I can imagine the developer meeting:

 

A: "Hey. Lets create a game, whichs development process will cost thousands of dollars but which in the end only attracts a small amount of people!"

B: "...."

 

This game is not for starwars fans. It is for somebody else.

Right! It is for everybody! This game is also made for people that love to play RTS games and not only for those that now the exact numer of the SSD turbolasers, the length of C3-POs right arm and the color of Lukes underwear when fighting Vader in episode 5...

 

All succesfull RTS out there could also have more units. But why havent they all more then 100 units? Because there is no need for it. If you want to create a game that is fun to play and not to complex (so that it is easy to learn) you have to take away content. Every game starts with more content and gets rid off a lot of content in the development process. If they would have never told about the Venetor you wouldn't miss it. I promiss. The only thing you are pissed off is that it was in before and has been taken out.

 

You are majorly wrong here star wars fans do not attract "a small group of people" If anything we are one of the largest groups of gaming fans out there (with the exception of maybe sports fans), that is how LEC can come out with a subpar game like Battlefronts and have it sell millions of copies. That is why evey moddable game out there has a Star Wars Mod.

 

Star Wars games are primarily made for star wars fans that is its directed audience. Battlefront is not nearly the best shooter out there, you don't play it for an FPS, you play it because you want to participate in star wars battles. Like wise EAW will probably not be the best RTS out there, it will attract the most people because they want to rule the star wars galaxy, not play just another RTS.

 

(The only star games that I can think of that were the top of their genre are the Tie and x-wing games and KOTOR, most Star wars games have been rip offs of other popular games with a star wars, further proof that star wars games are made for star wars fans).

 

Also about the whol balancing thing. How could it have been unbalanced if both sides got the same ship?!?!?!

[Teradyn_pff]

can Bashing LEC be Kept to the LEC forums please Cain has already said that this is an Unofficial Forum that wants to Thank the Good People at LEC and PEtro for all their hard work!

 

Thank them for their misrepresentation? What?

[Cain]

Pls. talk about the Venator or this topic will be closed and moved. Form my unnoficial sources I suspect that the Venator was really unbalanceing the game at a certain point. No clue why or how.

[Teradyn_pff]

Well, to someone else's point (can't remember who), if the Venator was available to both sides, how was it unbalancing?

[Star Wars Man]

Well, to someone else's point (can't remember who), if the Venator was available to both sides, how was it unbalancing?

lol both fire at each other at the same time and the both explode...

[Sabu113]

Personally, I'd be grateful that this is not anotehr rebellion... that is if you want to ever see another starwars RTS again.

[Teradyn_pff]

that sounds pretty balanced to me.

But seriously, the Venator being in, or not, isn't the biggest issue here. LEC is doing a very sloppy job with content control. Also, having balance issues that are so massive as to require the removal of a very well known unit this close to release is disturbing.

[MerLock]

Yep, I think they are rushing it. They should delay the release for atleast another year to work out all the issues so it'll be a big hit when it comes out with all the stuff we want.

[Teradyn_pff]

No, delaying it wont work when the problem is the guidelines or lack thereof that they are working with.

[AT-AP]

If the Venator truly isn't in, then it makes no sense to finally release several promotional screenshots with that ship in them. Doesn't this constitute false advertising?

[Teradyn_pff]

Probably not legally, but it still was a very bad, bad pr move.

[Avaris]

Is anybody else amazed at how many different ways LA and PG have found to mispell Venator? If that isn't indicative of the overall problems regarding appreciation for the license, I don't know what is. There seems to be a serious disconnect, or else disinterest, in accuracy.

 

PS: with the small number of space units (comparibly to other RTSs on the market), I don't understand why a ship wasn't added to fix a Venator imbalance issue, rather than the removal. One of the smaller MC's would have been nice.

[Delphi-PG]

with the small number of space units (comparibly to other RTSs on the market), I don't understand why a ship wasn't added to fix a Venator imbalance issue.

 

 

What other RTS with space and ground units are you referring too?

[Avaris]

Good question Delphi. I actually looks at most other RTS games, even Command and Conquer games.

 

The point of the comparrison was "tactical balance", thus "how many types of units should your army/fleet consist of".

 

To be fair to EAW, I compared number of "fighting units". So i didn't include resource units or heros (thus exludding EAW heros also). I count 9 EAW tactical units per side in a combat senerio. I can't find any RTS or any genre that has less than 10 combat units per side since warcraft 1. But, i only looked at about 10 of them. (Command and Conquer included).

 

I can go back and recount and share them numbers I came up with if you'd like to see them

[Xenomorphine]

ok so what the game isn't adding up to what you expected of it but what you expect ios probably higher than anything that can be supported by the usual computer and as the game is for Widespread distribution they have to rate down what it can do to allow a medium spec pc run it with minimal or no upgrades.

 

Playing Devil's Advocate, one could say that the game will be precisely that when they've got around to all of the expansion packs.

 

The game could be what was hoped for it, with some more time spent on it and an easier free reign: Just change the technnology tree over time and substitute some abilities for others (unending TIE factories being exchanged for the ability to shoot down incoming missiles, AEGIS-style; although I do think that such craft would probably have some type of technology to process recovered materials into weapons or craft, over time).

 

In fact, even if you wanted to jsu tconcentrate on a realistic application of military technology, an independent group of very informed people got together and upgraded 'Jane's Fleet Command' to jsut about as perfect as it could be - and they still are! It's a continuous process, but very early on they overhauled the units and capabilities with quite some ease. That's a game with two dimensional maps combined with three dimensional views. Even a cinematic option for particualr events. Not very different to this and yet that was done years ago.

 

On that, you can literally have fleets of hundreds of warships, complete with fully defensive systems and command over just about every facet, while being able to leave much of it up to an automated process, if you really want to! The computer takes care of rules of engagement for aircraft, processing how likely particular sensor systems are to detect units or individual weapons (including how stealth is affected in completely different circumstances) and all the rest. The only thing which stops it reaching something of a perfection is the mechanical construction of the thing which causes it to crash to desktop every so often, but that, too, could be fixed if they were building it from scratch today. It even modelled individual weapon loudouts for different types of aircraft to be launched from bases or ship, plus a way to stack them for different launching times (it sorely lacked an ability to create mission strike packages, but that and other things are being added to in the team's own product).

 

And you know what? It's fun! It's even more fun to create a mission as the Russians or Indians or even French and see if you can better the US navy with their inferior resources! There are ways to do it and it's more rewarding than you would have thought!

 

Combine somehting like that, which teaches you that launching thirty missiles at an AEGIS cruiser will get them shot down, forcing you to time two flights, plus ship assets just right, for several volleys of missiles to sneak in at the target from different angles, with the types of missions, situations and cinematic excitement experienced in 'TIE Fighter', complete with stuff like orbital bombardment and diplomacy and that's the sort of thing which many, including myself, originally thought might be what this would offer.

 

So, yes, it is feasable for something like a successor to 'Rebellion' to have been made and on the market, with older computer technology than what is available today.

 

Have a look for yourself on the 'Naval Warfare Project' section:

www.navalwarfare.net

 

But is what we're being offered unworthy of our time? No, of course not! It's going to be a great experience, from what we see so far.

 

Such a game could have been created, though. No doubt about that.

[Naja]

Perhaps such a game Legacy of War will manage to create.