Population Caps

[RogueCommander]

Im behind having a pop. cap. but just one that is higher. If the pop.cap is too low it is only a matter or time before everyone uses the same fleet formations because it is the most effective.

[WhiteSkull]

People are forgeting you have to protect your planets, and we have no idea how long it takes to build ISD or MC i mean if you own 10 planets 3 are set as shipyards and all 3 are making ISD while the rebles have the same with 3 yards making smaller ships for all we know they will have 3-4times the fleets ships the emprie will allowing them to strike sevral worlds at once to your 1 with yuor big bad ISD

[Teradyn_pff]

I don't think balance is good at all when it means that a Mon Cal Cruiser is going to be designed to stand toe to toe with an ISD. The only possible way that should go for the Mon Cal is the fact that they have redundant shielding and their fighters should be able to take out the ISD's fighters and go to work on taking out its hardpoints. Not counting fighters, it shouldn't even be a contest. This is balance without cookie cutter, you balance a force based on what they bring as a group, not unit to unit.

 

Mind showing me the hardcore facts from LA where this should not happen?

 

from the few books i read the MC could infact standup to a ISD because of the extra shielding.

 

Also your ausming again(something you are doing alot of the past few days) that the MC is not being designed to be weaker then a ISD and that the x-wings and y-wings will not make a ISD vrs a MC a balanced fight.

 

If you are talking about the EU books... blah, don't bother. For one thing, they are all over the place with their stuff, and another is that this game is not based around the EU.

 

As for the Mon Cal's shields, they are not necessarily stronger than an ISD’s, just more redundant so they are less likely to completely fail from overloading. The truth of the matter is that the shielding on a MC and ISD are not that different in terms of strength. Their weaponry is the big difference.

 

My assumption (learn to spell please) is based on all of the disappointments we have had so far, and more importantly, on quotes that we have had from developers stating their views on balance vs. staying true to the Star Wars universe as much as possible.

 

Um, as for showing you the hard core facts... ever heard of the Star Wars technical commentaries? Take a gander and then come back. That source outlines this and a whole lot more much better than I could ever hope to. Here is a link if you are unable to find it: http://www.theforce.net/swtc/. Also, go here for specific discussion on the Mon Cal Shields and ISD Shields respectively: http://www.theforce.net/swtc/mcc.html#shields and http://www.theforce.net/swtc/isd.html#shields. Another interesting set of info to consider is the weapons section for each.

[Teradyn_pff]

The problem is that with this pop cap, they are setting up the scenario of even numbered force conflicts between the Rebellion and the Empire as the norm! Who the heck thinks that is true to Star Wars in any way whatsoever?

 

All I can say is that this is one of the first things I will mod for myself. I will open the pop cap up to something ridiculous so I can find what my computer can handle.

 

The main problem I have with the way they are doing the pop cap for space is that it is a set number and it won't be set up to be affected by the pop cap upgrades that ground forces will use. Ideally I would want to mod the game to give the space portion the same pop cap upgrades that the ground portion gets.

[WhiteSkull]

just more redundant so they are less likely to completely fail from overloading.

 

To me that is stronger.

 

My assumption (learn to spell please) is based on all of the disappointments we have had so far

 

I not been dispointed yet.

 

 

 

 

ever heard of the Star Wars technical commentaries?

 

Looks like a fan site unless i am missing the 'offical" seal some where, so the info can be wrong.

 

 

 

On the ISD-II subclass the turrets are identical, and each carries four turbolaser barrels on either side of a central partition. Therefore each battery has eight barrels and there are 32 of these guns on each side of the ship, for a total of 64

 

 

As far as the weapons your site shows ISD2 having 32 guns per side for 64 main guns.

 

Numerous other cannons are distributed over the brim, dorsal and ventral planar surfaces of the ship.

 

So they say the ship has many common cannons but fail to list numbers.

 

 

This result is reasonable compared to the statistics of 29 turbolasers plus 36 ion cannons stated in A Guide to the STAR WARS Universe

 

looks like the MC has 30 or so main cannons on each side but use ion cannons with turbo lasers plus carries better fighters in the form of x-wings so again i dont see any hard proof that the MC should not be able to hold its own vrs a ISD2.

[Teradyn_pff]

Actually an ISD II should decimate a Mon Cal (assuming we are talking about the generic Mon Cal and not MC-90 or something). I am referring to the ISD as the ISD II will not be in Empire at War.

 

The "officialness" of the technical commentaries is not the main issue. Take a look at the sources he bases his observations on. Another point is that he uses the films to form the basis of his arguments, something I suppose EU fanatics will feel is the main flaw in the entire site.

 

At any rate, we know that Petroglyph has some issues with their adherence to Star Wars with the whole shield generator thing.

[Ishmael-PG]

Hi guys,

 

FYI, a Mon Cal will lose to an ISD, due in part to the compliment of fighters and bombers that the ISD carries and the Mon Cal lacks. Bombers are highly effective at taking out hardpoints on larger ships...

 

However, there are strategies to help even the fight... which you'll have to play to discover!

[Delphi-PG]

[WhiteSkull]

FYI, a Mon Cal will lose to an ISD, due in part to the compliment of fighters and bombers that the ISD carries and the Mon Cal lacks

 

See Teradyn you got worked up for nothing

 

Are there more then one type of MC in the game or do we have 1 version?

[Teradyn_pff]

Heh, WhiteSkull, this is what I mean by having the information vs. not having it.

 

Welcome to the boards, Ishmael-PG! I am very glad to see another Petroglyph face in here, as are we all I am sure.

 

[Edit] Horrible with the spelling of the names, I am.

[Hadoken13]

Naja dont try and cuss your way through messages. The W word isn't needed Improvise

so i can't say whore? is prostetute ok?

[Teradyn_pff]

Well, I don't see anything wrong with that word, Hadoken13. Although, I don't know what it is you were trying to spell.

[Hadoken13]

Well, I don't see anything wrong with that word, Hadoken13. Although, I don't know what it is you were trying to spell.

i am aware of the fact that i cannto spell...it makes me sad!

anyway thank you petro peoples please don't let the people on the forum depress you!!!!!! I STILL LOVE YOU!!!!!

petro=<3

[Teradyn_pff]

Well, I don't see anything wrong with that word, Hadoken13. Although, I don't know what it is you were trying to spell.

i am aware of the fact that i cannto spell...it makes me sad!

anyway thank you petro peoples please don't let the people on the forum depress you!!!!!! I STILL LOVE YOU!!!!!

petro=<3

 

Don't take that too hard, Hadoken13. I was making a joke.

 

Anyway, I hold any animosity I have for Lucas Arts, although I still don't approve of the Broadside. I don't know of anyone that has been bashing Petroglyph directly anyway.

 

A perfect example:

 

If the demo is completed as it has been reported, who do you think the release of it is waiting on? That's right... Lucas Arts. Petroglyph is not sitting on it laughing at us, they are waiting for Lucas Arts to finish going over it with a fine toothed comb (probably making sure it is not moddable) so that it can be released.

[Ghostly_Substance]

Naja dont try and cuss your way through messages. The W word isn't needed Improvise

so i can't say w*****? is prostetute ok?

 

lol Well it helps with convos or the cusswords would make discussions less constructive

 

Wouldn't the Empires pop cap be different then the Rebels? Empire goes more for quantity

[Garbageben]

I just thought I'd add, to the discussion, a screenshot.

 

http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/images/2005/108/reviews/925180_20050419_screen009.jpg

 

That looks to be a decent sized fleet to me.

[Phantom_pff]

could use another patrol ship or two, but ya looks good.

[Teradyn_pff]

That is only 7 ships. Not worthy of an invasion fleet, you know? What would you do against 5 mon cal and a lvl 5 space station?

[Naja]

That's also a very old picture.

 

There are pictures where we see persistant dead bodies on the ground. Surely, we can reason, things have changed between the screenshots of yore, and the screenshots of now.

[EJM]

Doesn't matter, the screens just capture a second of a battle, those bodies could have been there for just like 5 seconds and they're gone, and if the old pictures of the game we see fleets of 10 ships and docents of fighters, then that would'nt be changed, let's have some faith.

 

Why always say the bad part of it, let's see the good, also, if we haven't played the game, how can we say that it will be bad?, after all (talking about the Pop Cap), Delphi did mention something about "Secrets" with the Pop Cap, and he said that it will not hiner us as we are thinking.

[Vader89]

I HATE pop caps, but as was said earlier hopefully they will be modifiable through the XML files. That'd be nice

[Dorkthehunter]

I HATE pop caps, but as was said earlier hopefully they will be modifiable through the XML files. That'd be nice

 

Delphi already said that it won't affect us that much! Why are we still complaining about it?

 

I'm fine with a population cap. as long as it doesn't interfere with the strategy of the game(this one won't)

[Psycho Mantis]

Perhaps you can bring a fleet that exceeds the 20 unit pop cap, but only 20 units can be on the field at once. More than that may not be managable. Think about it, yeah, having 100 ISD's at once would be cool, but there would be no way to manage them all. For instance, in RTW, you can only have like a dozen units at a time. More than that would be unwieldy. However, more units can enter as some are destroyed/retreat.

 

So like, say you bring in a fleet of like 15 ships, and as some are destroyed, more enter the battle as reinforcements.(like in RTW)

 

So, a fleet of 100 ships would defeat a fleet of 30 ships, but not all of them would fight at once.

 

...at least, I hope so.

[felixforever]

mantis's idea is a good one, but for some of us with high end pc's mabey add a option to change the cap to something larger like a adjustable slider u can set for what your pc can handle

[Phantom_pff]

Maybe, by 20 pop cap IT means only 20 different types of ships???