Unit AI

[Sparky]

I know that the Enemy AI as been discusses but what about the (for lack of a better term) Unit AI. In most RTS games i have played the stances are lacking...cause there is always those few units that decide to go out on there own to chase down units and end up getting destoryed. Or Units will just sit while the unit right next them gets attacked and they don't do any thing until the enemy starts firing at them. Is there any Info on the type of stances and the variety of them? Another thing i have noticed in most RTS games is when moving units from point A to point B the usually take the shortest path, and sometimes that means going into unexplored areas and again get destroyed b/c the unit walks straight into part of an enemy base. Does any one know if you can select mulitiple waypoints to force your units to follow a predetermain path?

 

Sparky

[Teradyn_pff]

This is a good question because we haven't really (or at least I haven't found it) seen alot of details on the ground battles and the specific functions we can perform.

 

There are still some questions on building during combat. I think when we have seen it it has been in skirmish mode, but who is to know? Do you have the ability to go into the planet view and build up your base while the galactic map is going on?

 

I think we have been so giddy about the idea behind the levels of war here that we have forgotten to ask about some of the minor (but important) details.

[Samheyn]

Concerning the Unit AI :

 

Even if Westwood is one of my all time favorite game design studios I have to admit that their unit AI and pathfinding has never been the best out there in the RTS genre. But as there will be no "harvester" units it could possibly be that the AI is at least "acceptable".

 

Building :

 

Let's think about the possible options

 

1.

a) You can only build from the galactic map and buildings are placed on preset or random positions.

b) You can only buy upgrades for existing bases wich are always the same. (like echo base on hoth which could perhaps start without any surface based turrets and shield generator)

 

2. Teradyns version (I like it )

 

3. Buildings might be build in combat only and bases remain as they were left after the battle ( perhaps with the option to remain on the planetary map after the enemies have been defeated and rebuild the bases) (unlikely)

[BigInc]

Actually, I hope that in general we will have the ability to place buildings etc on the planets otherwise it takes a lot of the strategy out of the game. In most strategy games building placement is extremely important! If you place a "key" building in the wrong spot you could be more likely to loss it due to it depending on where the LZ (Landing Zone) is on the map!

 

To answer the AI questions, I would think it is almost standard for most games to allow you to set way points! I would not think it would be hard to have that functionality build in? Most of the time you should hold "shift" for example and click on the first spot you want your units to move and click a second and a thrid etc. It would definitely improve things in this area. I am just keeping my fingers crossed!

[TSKNF]

The AI looking at least useable so far

 

Remember base building is not necessariy needed for strategic depth, look at all the WW2 rts games.

[Samheyn]

Waypoints are essential to every newer RTS game imo. But it gets annoying if you have to set waypoints all the time because of the bad unit AI. I would prefer intelligent pathfinding...

 

And in fact base building is what I miss most in WW2 RTS...

[Ghostly_Substance]

Base Buidling:

Well from what I heard its pre-placed to save up time and also you can either set up harvesters or turrets so its up to you on this spot.

 

AI:

And you diss Battlegrounds lol, it had one of the features I loved such as standing in one place and actually attacking. This next feature comes from Homeworld 2, You place way point 1, then 2, then 3 and ect until your unit is where it needs to be.

[Delphi-PG]

Does any one know if you can select mulitiple waypoints to force your units to follow a predetermain path?

 

You can set single waypoints for individual units. This is a basic standard among most RTS games. The game also uses a predictive path finding algorithm that helps determine the best route to the intended destination.

 

Also keep in mind, large capital ships will try to path around asteroids fields unless commanded to specifically go through them. They will take a serious beating if they do, but it can be handy if you need a ship at a location ASAP. There is a lot of little things like this in the game, so it hard to cover everything.

[Juggernaut1985]

I'm curious also as to how the units will work in regards to "stances". It seems to be a perfectly good option, someting DoW introduced and has worked very well imo. Will EaW feature something similar?

[Foshjedi2004]

Like Rebellion you had the option to set up the formations of Ships IE Surround. In AOE2 you could set up the units in various formations.

[Swiftdraw]

I'm more worried about interactions between large units, like AT-ATs and that reb tank, and other units and terrain. In games like WH40k: DoW smaller units would brake formation to get out of the way of larger units, only to get stuck on a piece of terrian. Even then the smaller unit doesn't get out of the way completely and the large and small unit just sits there unit you manually move them around or they get shot/blown up.

[Foshjedi2004]

I think that if a unit ran into another unit they should be destroyed. That would be hilarous. An rogue ATAT crushing a legion of troops and Vader.

[Swiftdraw]

Screens show that happening is Supreme Commander... Looks so cool. Only problem is that you may under up losing a lot of your infantry support if you make an error in coordination.

[Lytyr]

Come to think of it, I'm curious about that, too. I hate it when units waste time getting into formation when you want them to get somewhere, for example - I wish there was just a "clump" option of something. I also dislike units getting stuck - very annoying. I hope unit stances will be varied, too - and maybe we can even make infantry go prone, take cover, etc. Would make for an interesting ground game, and space too (though, unless they include spacetroopers, we won't have infantry in space).

[Darkmark]

Delphi, you say the capital ships will naturally avoid the asteroid fields. In Star Trek Armada they also implemented this kind of system, however in much larger groups of ships, the outer ships would find themselves in the nebulas (in EAW the asteroid fields) simply because they were 'pushed' there by the grouped ships at the centre. My point being, I'm expecting this won't be the case for EAW... I don't like the idea that my outer grouped capital ships will get damaged if I pass close by to asteroid fields.

 

Most of my other concerns regarding unit AI are similar to Swiftdraw's concerns where he compared the unit AI to DOW, where the lesser units get pushed aside... or just refuse to move for the others. Spending valuable time getting them moving again isn't helpful when you need those seconds to 'make or break the battle'.

[Juggernaut1985]

The major concern I have is that in EVERY RTS so far when you have a group of units, the front units will close in and then stop when thy get in range leaving back units woefully out of range which really sucks to no end.

 

In DoW is you have 2 squads and one is behind the otherone, the 2 will close in, Squad 1 gets in range, but Squad 2 doesn't becuase its behind.

 

PLEASE say this is fixed somehow.

[Sparky]

You can set single waypoints for individual units. This is a basic standard among most RTS games. The game also uses a predictive path finding algorithm that helps determine the best route to the intended destination.

 

Well that is..... well unfortunate, units don't make a game for me, its the small things like this...I was hoping for the ability to divide my land forces into two while one attacks from the front the other flanks. Now when I want to attack something all my units will take the same path, oh well

 

Sparky

[Garbageben]

You can set single waypoints for individual units. This is a basic standard among most RTS games. The game also uses a predictive path finding algorithm that helps determine the best route to the intended destination.

 

Well that is..... well unfortunate, units don't make a game for me, its the small things like this...I was hoping for the ability to divide my land forces into two while one attacks from the front the other flanks. Now when I want to attack something all my units will take the same path, oh well

 

Sparky

So just take your units and divide them into task forces and use waypoints to have one attack and the other(s) to flank.

[Sparky]

So just take your units and divide them into task forces and use waypoints to have one attack and the other(s) to flank.

 

True...but it would have been easier to set multiple waypoints so you can just sit back and wait for the units to get into position...kinda like Rouge Spear or Ghost Recon...if you ever played them...if you would have only been allowed to set one waypoint then those games would have been impossible to complete

 

Unless i'm missing the point of what he said...the way he said souded to me like the unit/s will behave like the did in Red Alert...you click one spot on the map the go to that spot, if you click a spot on the other side of the map while your units are on route they will stop and start heading towards the spot where you just clicked, and ignore that fact that you want them to go to the spot where you clicked first...thats my impression of what delphi meant...please correct me if i'm wrong.

 

Sparky

[Foshjedi2004]

Like Rebellion you could sent taskforces to special points across the battle map allowing really hilarious attacking options.

[Delphi-PG]

Delphi, you say the capital ships will naturally avoid the asteroid fields. In Star Trek Armada they also implemented this kind of system, however in much larger groups of ships, the outer ships would find themselves in the nebulas (in EAW the asteroid fields) simply because they were 'pushed' there by the grouped ships at the centre. My point being, I'm expecting this won't be the case for EAW...

 

 

Oh no, the design team would freak if this was the case.

[Delphi-PG]

the way he said souded to me like the unit/s will behave like the did in Red Alert...you click one spot on the map the go to that spot, if you click a spot on the other side of the map while your units are on route they will stop and start heading towards the spot where you just clicked, and ignore that fact that you want them to go to the spot where you clicked first...thats my impression of what delphi meant...please correct me if i'm wrong.

 

 

Correct! There is a nice waypoint system in place if you would really like to micro your guys.

[Juggernaut1985]

I didn't get my question answered

 

The major concern I have is that in EVERY RTS so far when you have a group of units, the front units will close in and then stop when thy get in range leaving back units woefully out of range which really sucks to no end.

 

In DoW is you have 2 squads and one is behind the otherone, the 2 will close in, Squad 1 gets in range, but Squad 2 doesn't becuase its behind.

 

PLEASE say this is fixed somehow.

[Delphi-PG]

The major concern I have is that in EVERY RTS so far when you have a group of units, the front units will close in and then stop when thy get in range leaving back units woefully out of range which really sucks to no end.

 

Hmm, haven't seen it happen in EAW.

[Juggernaut1985]

Its happened in Generals, DoW, and even the older C&Cs. If you have alot of units, the first ones there will fire and the other ones struggle to get around them to get into range.

 

Hope this is maybe somehow not the case in EaW. Thanks Delphi.