Star Wars general topics

[Eagle]

But there has been such a jedi with that name. Otherwise Kenobi wouldn´t have known about him. Even not the fact that he died years before he arrived at Kamino to investigate for that bountyhunter.

[ElvisMiggell]

Can anyone say plot hole?

 

I think it's just typical Lucas trash, filling in holes with random characters because he can't be bothered to write a halfway decent story.

 

God i hate RetCon

[SOCL]

God i hate RetCon

I concur! But Lucas isn't the only one guilty: near everyone on the LucasFilm staff is guilty of it, and it wasn't until the arrival of Karen Traviss that the authors managed to stay out of that nonsense.

[ElvisMiggell]

I'm not sure SOCL, i think it happened when they started doing prequel era books. After all, before then the whole clone wars thing was a rather different affair.

 

It smacks of Lucas trying to take control. I liked the good old days when the books weren't 'cannonised' but Lucas basically said "yeah sure write what you want". Now it all seems to be back to, "yeah sure write what you want as long as it falls precisely within my overarching view of the entire saga as i may or may not have defined it when i allegedly wrote the first nine stories". Bloody control freak.

 

Not that i'm bitter or anything...

[SOCL]

That is the perfect description! :lol:

 

I suppose blaming Traviss is a little of a low (and bias) shot at that particular author for what she has done to Mandalorians and Star Wars as a whole. Regardless, I didn't notice retcons being quite so forceful and prevalent until Traviss came on the scene and very clearly declared she loves retcons--and why wouldn't she? She doesn't read (she said so herself!), much less reads any of the Star Wars literature. Her ties to the community come from what can only be a career-making contract with LucasFilm, started by the novel Hard Contact, and her close ties to the 501st. She has no emotional connection to the old-school Star Wars the way we do and no consideration of that connection. In all her interviews she comes across quite arrogantly, as though she knows what is best for Star Wars as a whole, and makes it clear that she will do precisely what she feels is best. Dragging down the entire Legacy of the Force series is only one such example of this, but her decision to dominate anything that has to do with Clones or Mandalorians is probably the worst thing anyong at LucasFilm could have allowed: it's now not a matter of what the literature says as it is what Big Brother Traviss believes it should say, retconning out the parts she doesn't like and adding in the nonsense she develops in that head of hers. These aren't tendencies I saw in any of the previous authors, to include the otherwise lacking prequel authors. Most of them were genuinely interested in making a meaningful contribution to Star Wars, even if, as you rightly pointed out, Elvis, the stories were forced into a Lucas-idea cookie-mold. The very fact you have authors like Matthew Stover (author of the upcoming Luke Skywalker and the Shadows of Mindor) believe the novels need to return to an older style of EU writing is quite telling of the state of affairs within the community itself. This isn't to say I would like a return to the nonsense of Stackpole's Bacta War or The New Rebellion or the Force Heretic trilogy of the New Jedi Order, but it shows a nostalgic sense that the post-ROTJ EU has slipped from the ideas of old-school Star Wars, once a haven for them, and fallen into the trap and pattern of the prequels. I think in many ways the last bastion of old-school Star Wars (if the post-ROTJ is not saved, and it appears it shan't be) now lies in the Knights of the Old Republic era of storytelling. We can only hope they approach that particular topic, if LucasFilm does so in novel form, with care and not quite so haphazardly as they botched the prequels and latter EU.

[Eagle]

For those who never read any of those novels, could you explain how exactly those authors corrumpied the whole story?

[Guest Scathane]

For those who never read any of those novels, could you explain how exactly those authors corrumpied the whole story?

I honestly wouldn't know but...

 

I suppose blaming Traviss is a little of a low (and bias) shot at that particular author for what she has done to Mandalorians and Star Wars as a whole. Regardless, I didn't notice retcons being quite so forceful and prevalent until Traviss came on the scene and very clearly declared she loves retcons--and why wouldn't she? She doesn't read (she said so herself!), much less reads any of the Star Wars literature. Her ties to the community come from what can only be a career-making contract with LucasFilm, started by the novel Hard Contact, and her close ties to the 501st. She has no emotional connection to the old-school Star Wars the way we do and no consideration of that connection. In all her interviews she comes across quite arrogantly, as though she knows what is best for Star Wars as a whole, and makes it clear that she will do precisely what she feels is best. Dragging down the entire Legacy of the Force series is only one such example of this, but her decision to dominate anything that has to do with Clones or Mandalorians is probably the worst thing anyong at LucasFilm could have allowed: it's now not a matter of what the literature says as it is what Big Brother Traviss believes it should say, retconning out the parts she doesn't like and adding in the nonsense she develops in that head of hers. These aren't tendencies I saw in any of the previous authors, to include the otherwise lacking prequel authors. Most of them were genuinely interested in making a meaningful contribution to Star Wars, even if, as you rightly pointed out, Elvis, the stories were forced into a Lucas-idea cookie-mold. The very fact you have authors like Matthew Stover (author of the upcoming Luke Skywalker and the Shadows of Mindor) believe the novels need to return to an older style of EU writing is quite telling of the state of affairs within the community itself. This isn't to say I would like a return to the nonsense of Stackpole's Bacta War or The New Rebellion or the Force Heretic trilogy of the New Jedi Order, but it shows a nostalgic sense that the post-ROTJ EU has slipped from the ideas of old-school Star Wars, once a haven for them, and fallen into the trap and pattern of the prequels. I think in many ways the last bastion of old-school Star Wars (if the post-ROTJ is not saved, and it appears it shan't be) now lies in the Knights of the Old Republic era of storytelling. We can only hope they approach that particular topic, if LucasFilm does so in novel form, with care and not quite so haphazardly as they botched the prequels and latter EU.

Consider this thread beaked! :twisted:

[SOCL]

For those who never read any of those novels, could you explain how exactly those authors corrumpied the whole story?

There are planning sessions held with members of the LucasFilm literature staff, who consult EU sources and the the like and then consult authors about their ideas of having a story in a certain time period. It's explained pretty well on the Star Wars websites and in the back of some of the novels, one can find interviews with the authors where they explain a lot of the details. I'm not sure exactly who comes up with the plots. I know back when Timothy Zahn was tapped to write the Thrawn trilogy, he outlined the idea and basically did whatever he wanted until he ran into a "wall" where LucasFilm didn't want him to delve. It works differently now, though, with the enlargement of the general EU, so that much of it is preplanned and requires a lot more consultation, now that there's so much history to work around/within.

 

Consider this thread beaked! :twisted:

:lol:

[Guest Scathane]

The Thrawn Trilogy... Sigh! If only Lucas would mould that into a television series...

[SOCL]

The Thrawn Trilogy... Sigh! If only Lucas would mould that into a television series...

That would be pretty awesome, but maybe better a miniseries, like ten episodes per season and only two seasons. That way the story is rich without being dragged out. I would worry (A LOT!) if Lucas were the one to make it into anything.

[Jahled]

The Thrawn Trilogy... Sigh! If only Lucas would mould that into a television series...

That would be pretty awesome, but maybe better a miniseries, like ten episodes per season and only two seasons. That way the story is rich without being dragged out. I would worry (A LOT!) if Lucas were the one to make it into anything.

 

The Thrawn trilogy was about the last bit of expanded Star Wars I could read and take on par with the original trilogy of films, before the prequals, and Jedi turning out to be Superman, faithful enough to the original films to be the logical continuation. But what SOCL says, I think GL has lost the plot somewhere along the line; Peter Jackson?

[DarthTofu]

For those who never read any of those novels, could you explain how exactly those authors corrumpied the whole story?

There are planning sessions held with members of the LucasFilm literature staff, who consult EU sources and the the like and then consult authors about their ideas of having a story in a certain time period. It's explained pretty well on the Star Wars websites and in the back of some of the novels, one can find interviews with the authors where they explain a lot of the details. I'm not sure exactly who comes up with the plots. I know back when Timothy Zahn was tapped to write the Thrawn trilogy, he outlined the idea and basically did whatever he wanted until he ran into a "wall" where LucasFilm didn't want him to delve. It works differently now, though, with the enlargement of the general EU, so that much of it is preplanned and requires a lot more consultation, now that there's so much history to work around/within.

 

Consider this thread beaked! :twisted:

:lol:

 

The shift to a more structured EU really came with the shift from Bantam to Del Ray. The nineteen-book-long NJO was the first long, over-arching storyline in the Star Wars universe as the readers knew it. Sure, everything before fit in with continuity, but it was sort of like seeing a tree by the side of the road as you drive by- it's there, it's happening, you acknowledge it, but it hardly figures into anything.

 

The X-wing novels are really the only ones comparable to the current EU setup, and some of that doesn't count- comic book characters in the Rogue Squadron books had been written by Stackpole in the first place. The stuff with Zsinj, Dala, and Thrawn,though- that all worked sort of like Del Ray does.

 

The way Del Ray puts it, they had to get darker and more structured. Bantam had pretty much let everyone run rampant with the "Superweapon of the week" in their novels. By getting all of the authors together, they make it work better. The interview at the end of The Unifying Force describes the novel writing as a group of directors who said "You must hit points A, B, C, and D, but other than that, you're pretty much on your own. Don't kill off a main character unless we tell you to."

[Mitth_raw_nuruodo]

So really, what I'm hearing is that the new books (I.E. the ones I haven't read/don't own) aren't worth buying or reading. Is that pretty much accurate?

[DarthTofu]

Not if you ask me...

[SOCL]

So really, what I'm hearing is that the new books (I.E. the ones I haven't read/don't own) aren't worth buying or reading. Is that pretty much accurate?

Which ones are you talking about? The Legacy series? Who told you that? Tofu and I seem to love them, and I have found few with too many complaints.

[Evaders99]

I still like NJO. Legacy has grown on me, can't wait until the finale.

[ElvisMiggell]

I just want a trilogy, not nine or nineteen books. It's too hard to follow everything.

 

Bring back Zahn i say!

[DarthTofu]

I still like NJO. Legacy has grown on me, can't wait until the finale.

 

HeH. My feeling on thAt man are raTher wEll known...

 

I like the odd trilogy as much as the next guy, though- a bit of a carefree, non main-character focused jaunt in the EU would certainly be nice. I like the idea of expanding the character repetuars a bit more by having some more almost entirely EU-based novels, like the X-wing books. Well, that and I also liked the old styles of looking at enemies from economic standpoints and the like. The fights against Zsinj and Isard were certainly interesting, and they wound up adding to the EU in terms of reused characters. (Wedge, Corran, Face, the Wraiths and Rogues in general, Wes Janson)

[Mitth_raw_nuruodo]

The general recommendation would be to get caught up then? I've read Joiner King(?). The first book in that trilogy. Whichever one that was. I got really busy with school, as well as Stephen King, and other various books.

[DarthTofu]

General consensus that I've heard is that the Dark Nest trilogy was a piece of crap. All sorts of dumb new powers, writing styles, dumb lines, overuse of original characters, etc. I never actually read it, though, so I can only give my opinion of Denning as an author: He sucks and deserves to die a slow and painful death for some of the atrocities that he has committed against Star Wars.

[SOCL]

It was certainly dumb, but I think that if you're going to read Legacy of the Force you should read Dark Nest, just to set the stage. Just remember while you're reading it: it's not Shakespeare.

[Eagle]

Nooo, plz don´t contaminate every Star Wars topic with all these EU novells.

[Mitth_raw_nuruodo]

I had heard that recommendation. The rest of Legacy is good though?

[SOCL]

I had heard that recommendation. The rest of Legacy is good though?

Yes. Quite.

[Mitth_raw_nuruodo]

I'll try and fit them into the list of close to 50 books I either want or am supposed to read. Getting old sucks.