The Return of the Soviet Union?

[SOCL]

I dont recall saying anything about Eastern European countries. I did refer to the (Far) EAST however.

 

Yeah, most East European countries are entering into the EU. I just grouped them in with those and generally ignored them consentrating on Asia or the East.

I still can't see the less-than-democratic nations of Central Asia and East Asia ever siding with Russia in any conflict, cold or otherwise, against the greater part of the Western powers. Simply put: there is no benefit to helping or joining in a losing battle. If anything, as you mentioned, most of these dictatorship will not want to join in any hostilities for the same reason you cited: to hold on to power. Holding on to power by plunging their country into a war they can't possibly win will only destabilize their nation, driving their people to extreme measures in order to combat the government. By siding with the Western powers, on the other hand, said "dictatorships" will be able to hold on to power in the form of Western-backing, such as is the case with the military government of Pakistan so constantly supported by a nation that purports to support democracy. Yes, I mean the USA.

[Lord_La_forge]

LaForge may be able to speak more to the point on this, himself living in Eastern Europe (i.e. Hungary). Why the old Eastern bloc would want to ally with Russia is beyond me.

 

Nations living closer/next to Russia hate them much better (like Ukraine and Poland...) and I can understand that. As for Hungary, we have good relations with modern day Russia (we have all the oil imported from Russia). Of course not only Hungary depends on their oil export. Gazprom is growing larger every day providing a good opportunity to get Russia back to position. I think they are/will be very strong, but still not threat at all. But anyway, if you want to calculate a worst case scenario, you should count we Russia too (an all other countries rleated with oil)

 

Besides, Hungary has about 14 tanks (T–72), apcs, and maybe 13 Gripens, 14 Mig-29 fighters, and some other smaller scout units (ok, we have over 50 Mig-21s ) I think in case of WW3, we could hold our borders for atleast an hour

 

So no, we don't hate Mother Russia. USSR was something different, it was good for boosting up economy here after WW2, but destroyed pretty much everything we believed in before, it was rather a culture shock and systematic brainwashing (even tougher than western tv)

 

Typical hungarian bad luck was, that in 1945 western forces (I think US) also approached from the south to drive the germans out from Budapest, but sadly the Prosperous Red Army arrived one day sooner Oh well, communism for 50 years for us, np. Vodka rules, Coke sucks.

[budious]

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3456456,00.html

 

Report: Israel 'blinded' Syrian radar

 

These are the same systems sold to Iran from Russia. The fact that the US, much less Israel, can hack into and effectively render their radar systems null must bug the hell out of them.

[logos]

tgf

[logos]

Why dont you guys convice Mr.Bush to play Rebellion where he can actualy conquer galaxy and satisfy his imperial needs, instead of bombing poor people in real world.

[Darth_Rob]

This thread is reserved for the Red scum (Im just kidding...I love Russia).

 

As for Bush, it's not Bush, but all Presidents. America just has a way of using its power to do what it thinks is right. We have a set ideology, and use our power on the world stage to achieve it.

[JediHunter]

As for Bush, it's not Bush, but all Presidents. America just has a way of using its power to do what it thinks is right. We have a set ideology, and use our power on the world stage to achieve it.

 

That's not only reserved to the U.S. there Rob... as I think is apparent in this day and age. And just to stick in my two cents, its not the general idea or action that makes it evil.. its the intentions. The U.S. and many other countries/groups use their power to do what it thinks is right, but its the interpretation of those actions (or inferred intention) that the media or other countries slings around convincing people of, (or truely intelligent peoples own interpretations) that give it the right or wrong spin.

[DarthTex]

Why dont you guys convice Mr.Bush to play Rebellion where he can actualy conquer galaxy and satisfy his imperial needs, instead of bombing poor people in real world.

We can't even get GL to give us the source code for a 10+ year old obsolete, lowest in sales computer game called Rebellion, and you want us to do what?

 

Don't worry about W, he'll take care of things the way they should be without bothering with the feelings of nay-sayers and whiners. You want to worry? Worry about some flaming (American) liberal like "Billary" winning the presidency. She'll run this country down the shitter quicker than a box of chocolate laxatives at a Chili cook off.

 

(*** I have more to say, but this crazy thread won't take my post if I type it all ***)

 

But I'm a guessin' your not from around these here parts, and this might make you happy

[Jahled]

She'll run this country down the shitter quicker than a box of chocolate laxatives at a Chili cook off.

 

*Breaths*

[Lord_La_forge]

tgf

 

best first post ever!

[Jahled]

tgf

 

best first post ever!

 

Less is more

[Darth_Rob]

That's not only reserved to the U.S. there Rob...

 

That is true JH. Its all about each nation following their ideologies and doing what they need to do in order to fulfill them. It just so happens that the U.S. is the strongest nation, and thus has the most power and resources to do this on such a massive scale that it attracts the attention of jealous nations worldwide.

[Evaders99]

If this world has to be a unipolar world (no fault on us if the Soviets collaprsed on itself), who would you want on top?

China, Russia, India.. ?

 

Just saying it could be far worse

[Lord_La_forge]

Just got this:

 

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/864712/crazy_army/

 

Cute

[JediHunter]

Apparently Putin doesn't like the U.S. missile defense plans.

 

In a tense start to talks on a range of thorny issues, President Vladimir Putin on Friday warned U.S. officials to back off a plan to install missile defenses in eastern Europe or risk harming relations with Moscow.

This is what concerned me..

Rice said the United States would go ahead with the program as planned.

It's almost as if we are just begging for another Cold War... perhaps thats what they want..

[Lord_La_forge]

Apparently Putin doesn't like the U.S. missile defense plans.

 

In a tense start to talks on a range of thorny issues, President Vladimir Putin on Friday warned U.S. officials to back off a plan to install missile defenses in eastern Europe or risk harming relations with Moscow.

This is what concerned me..

Rice said the United States would go ahead with the program as planned.

It's almost as if we are just begging for another Cold War... perhaps thats what they want..

 

Oh yeah, and what should I say? I live in eastern Europe :S

[Eagle]

It's almost as if we are just begging for another Cold War... perhaps thats what they want..

Who? The US-Government and their related war-industrie?

[Darth_Rob]

A Cold War could prove interesting. Maybe it will finally respark enough space interest to land on Mars...

[Evaders99]

I don't really see why a missile defense system is so threatening to them. Yes we can shoot down a missile, but if they ever attacked us - would they only use one missile??

 

Knowing us, we'd give them the technology to build their own missile defense. I wouldn't be surprised if they used it to protect their own country... (North Korea anyone?)

[Darth_Rob]

When I took an honors U.S./Soviet Relations class in high school, my teacher always told us to study the map of Russia, because we would have to go there someday to stop a Chinese invasion.

[Jahled]

A Cold War could prove interesting. Maybe it will finally respark enough space interest to land on Mars...

 

*sigh*

 

The last one wasn't that 'interesting to live through' Rob dude, largely on account of how realistic it got, with the amount of nukes concerned.

 

We can thank Reagan for more or less bankrupting the Soviet system and making wiser heads in Russia realize it couldn't compete with free market economies, despite it's rather huge military spending. It's GDP couldn't cope.

 

And that's that. Do you really think a far reduced Russia is going put it's self through all that again, when it can't possibly win?

[Eagle]

I don't really see why a missile defense system is so threatening to them. Yes we can shoot down a missile, but if they ever attacked us - would they only use one missile??

I´ve heard a report yesterday on radio. So it´ll be mainly used against iranian missiles, which, if they ever shall attack the US, are assumed to fly over Europe and the North-Pole to reach Alaska. That station will be used to take out at least some of the attacking missiles, while the others than have to be taken out by other weapon-systems before they reach North-America. Allthough Iran just has missiles which are able to reach targets in south-europe so far, I don´t see that Iran will be able to attack Alaska with several missiles in the near future. I allways had the feeling that it´s rather against russian missiles. Just think about of Russias large amount of intercontinental missiles, which still can be used against any target and you´ll never know who´s in command in Russia. Just to think of someone like Shirinovski .

[SOCL]

With so many important things in Alaska, I can see why the Russians would attack.

 

Let me repeat this: The Russian missile systems are, at best, ten years old--this is to say before the advent of "smart-bombs" on the world market, the U.S. excluded. Imagine 1991 Gulf War technology against 2007 Iraq War, crazy-military-industry-spending technology. I don't see a contest here. And the sort of repercussions Russia would get from the rest of the world would be enough to likely kill every last Russian, whether in war or through starvation, and the Russian people simply won't have that. They're not locked down like they were under the USSR--they realize that what the rest of the world can do is what they want Russia to do: prosper in a free market economy. Doing toe-to-toe with the rest of the world would be something of a damper on those hopes.

 

Cold War. No, it would not be good to go through that again. Have a hot war and be done with it.

 

Or better yet...

 

NO BLOODY WAR.

 

 

But if you guys insist on war, then go fight it yourselves! I'm sure you hadn't thought of that, eh? Or what about conscription? Would you like that? You people who call for war but won't serve have no bloody concept of what war is really like! Go off and join the Army, kick in doors in Iraq, and have IEDs go off so close to you that you think you just got your face blown off, then come tell me you want to go to war.

 

Honestly, I'm quite content not having to worry about a nuke being dropped in my backyard where my dog plays just because some overly zealous fool sneezed the wrong way in Berlin.

[DarthTex]

We can thank Reagan for more or less bankrupting the Soviet system and making wiser heads in Russia realize it couldn't compete with free market economies, despite it's rather huge military spending. It's GDP couldn't cope.

I think China learned that lesson; that'll be the next tough nut to crack

 

As for the American missiles in Eastern Europe, I think SOCL took care of that. Otherwise, I say pull 'em and let Europe fend for themselves. The EU is a big boy now and quite capable of taking care of itself (if that's what they really want).

[Eagle]

I´m not quite sure to whom´s post your comments were aiming for, SOCL. If it was to Robs post, than I have to add I grew up in the cold war. They allways told us how to act if we would have been under attack, because they knew that Germany would have been the main- or at least the first battlefield of a possible hot war, though it lied directly on the boarder to the so called "Iron Curtain", namely the former Federal Republic of Germany and the former Czechoslovakia, where lots of russian troops were stationed as well as other troops from the so called "Warsaw Pact".

 

Do we need any kind of war just to improve great things like landing on the moon? I guess not. Just think of all those great improvements which came the last ten years.

With so many important things in Alaska, I can see why the Russians would attack.

Perhaps oil and gas?

 

Honestly, I'm quite content not having to worry about a nuke being dropped in my backyard where my dog plays just because some overly zealous fool sneezed the wrong way in Berlin.

Who exactly do you mean? Hitler? Remember when it came to the war in Iraq and Germany refused to take part. With a good reason which may haven´t been mentioned that often in your media. After two world wars, where Germany was one of those states (it was one of them and not the only state), which began the first world war and started the second one, the allies decided to demilitarise Germany. We had no army for about ten years, while the red army was a serious threat for the remains of our country. In the beginning of the cold war we were allowed to have an army again, so we were enabled to defend at least our boarders. The german Bundeswehr is since than an army which purpose is still to defend and never to attack! The Allies, who feared another militarise Germany, teached us to be like that, so don´t complain if we´re now acting like that, just because Rumsfeld and Bush wanted us to take part at that war. Yesterday there was a big discussion again, if our troops still shall remain in Afghanistan, where they mainly guard those organisations who help to rebuild their country. Which is dangerous enough though being under attack nearly every day.

 

Edit:

As for the American missiles in Eastern Europe, I think SOCL took care of that. Otherwise, I say pull 'em and let Europe fend for themselves. The EU is a big boy now and quite capable of taking care of itself (if that's what they really want).

Than finally pull all your troops out of any european country, especially of germany. We don´t need them anymore here after the cold war is over. Thanks for the help. But those garrisons are much too important for any US-Governments.