Multiple Bombardments On Same Day

[kleaverjr]

This is of particular importance for Multiplayer, since the speed of the game is wherever the lowest setting is on either computer.

 

When bombarding a planet, does multiple bombardments result in more damage if on the same day?

 

If it does, I find it a bit unfair, because it takes a whole day for any sabotage mission to "take effect" and if there are fleets that are days away, by the time they get there it is too late.

 

At least with SIngle player mode, you can speed up the clock to get the fleet there.

 

Ken L.

aka Darth Siditious

[Darth_Rob]

Yeah. If you bombard several times in the same day, it will cause some major damage. So if its on a slow setting, and it takes the fleet a while to get to the planet under bombardment, it can be totally destroyed within one day before the fleet can arrive and break the blockade.

[DarthTofu]

The best way to prevent this is with two or three gen cors and a KDY series II or I. A KDY battery will always prevent the AI from bombarding, and your opponent in multiplayer will probably have to devote some time and resources to sabtoging it before they try anything.

 

Be warned, however, that if you only have one shield to prevent bombardment, the enemy can still assault the surface, so it's always a good idea to have troops stationed on the ground. At least if they all get killed, they might take a few assaulters with 'em!

[budious]

In fact this used to be heavily abused when multiplayer of this game was popular. A fleet with strong bombardment level attacking the same planet enough times after destroying structures continuing to attack planet can destroy unit blocks making the planet unusable for rebuilding. The slang for this was "Suncrushing" and many of people had tantrums over this being done in games. Usually, it's best to have a predetermined set of do's and don'ts for playing this game in multiplayer. Among "Suncrushing" is "HQ Colonization" and "Ghost Fleeting" and "Fake Espionage" which are other questionable methods of cheating the game engine in multiplayer.

[kleaverjr]

Could you elaborate on those other terms. I want to make sure I am not "violating" any multiplayer protocol's with my gameplay.

 

Ken L.

aka Darth Siditious

[Darth_Rob]

Im pretty sure that HQ Colonization refers to placing the Rebel HQ in the outer rim systems, rather than the core systems. But thats just my guess. As to the other terms, Im not entirely sure.

[kleaverjr]

Wouldn't keeping the Rebel HQ in the Outer Rim be the most logical strategy? Every game I have ever played as the Alliance (single player mode) the HQ starts off in the Outer Rim.

 

One thing I never have understood about the way the game starts is the Rebel HQ is not on Yavin. Since the game "starts" immediately after the Battle of Yavin, wouldn't the HQ start out in Yavin.

 

Ken L.

aka Darth Siditious

[dulljackieboy]

"Sun-crushing" (great term, btw) is not cheating. It's not even impolite. Anything allowable within the game mechanics must be expected as a matter of policy by either party. The idea of war being a gentleman's game has always been fatuous, though there was a period around the American Revolution where the British really (stupidly) tried to make it so.

 

And as for daily double (or triple, or quadruple) bombardments, I recommend spacing your bombardments out over 2-3 days if possible. I've found that the first military-target bombardment is successful at killing off troopers, mostly, but multiple in a day can result in unintended destruction of construction yards, mines, etc (you'd hope Imperial-era technology could at least match modern selective targeting capabilities), which often results in popular support on the bombarded planet turning solidly in the opposing side's favor. My experience suggests that high priority targets (like an devout enemy system with a high number of shipyards) is better handled with a combination of bombardment (for the troops) and sabotage (for the facilities). Even if you can't sway the locals to your point of view, you don't want to piss off their neighbors any more than you have to.

[Darth_Rob]

Wouldn't keeping the Rebel HQ in the Outer Rim be the most logical strategy? Every game I have ever played as the Alliance (single player mode) the HQ starts off in the Outer Rim.

 

One thing I never have understood about the way the game starts is the Rebel HQ is not on Yavin. Since the game "starts" immediately after the Battle of Yavin, wouldn't the HQ start out in Yavin.

 

Ken L.

aka Darth Siditious

 

Well, the way I see it is this (btw, if what I say was proved wrong, please let me know).

 

The game starts immediatly after the Battle of Yavin. However, Mon Mothma is already in the game, at the HQ (wherever it is). Also, I think Mothma was involved with the Rebellion during the events of ANH.

 

This leads me to assume that the Yavin moon was not the Rebel HQ, but just an above-average military base.

 

Either that, or there were various Rebel cells that had just never met up yet. Maybe Leia's group on Yavin 4 had not had the opportunity or intention of joining forces with Mothma. Didn't Bel Ibis (sp) do something similar, where he led a rebel cell that was not aligned with Mothma (due to his suspicions of her intentions)?

[budious]

"HQ colonization"

 

Basically what I refer to is the ability to use a medium transport if spawned at Rebel HQ to place a troop on nearby uninhabited rim system. Move the HQ to the planet, when it arrives a population is created. Put the troop unit back on the transport and go to the next planet following a stepping stone pattern until you have colonized the entire rim sector that the HQ spawned in... then move on to another rim sector if you want.

 

"Ghost Fleeting"

 

Create an existing fleet on ships at a location. From within the ship browser view of the fleet, select multiple ships you want to create into a new fleet. Move the selected fleets to a new system location. Now browse the fleet view of the destination system, you will notice a stationary fleet icon in which all the ships are in transport to the location. You can now drag the fleet icon to another system location and shift the landing area of the fleet in hyperspace. This can be abused of course in many imaginative ways

 

"Fake Espionage"

 

Not sure if it is "cheap" thing to do but involves using espionage missions of any unit type capable and immediately aborting the mission. This reveals any current incoming ships to the system of which the aborted espionage mission took place.

[Darth_Rob]

I never realized that thing with the HQ. So whenever you move the HQ to a uncolonized system that has just one troop regiment, it will turn 100% loyal as if you built a facility of some kind there?

[budious]

Bingo! Yes, Exactly! You win a cookie!

[Verdex]

"Anything allowable within the game mechanics must be expected as a matter of policy by either party."

 

I totally agree! After all, this is Star WARS, not Star KINDERGARTEN

[budious]

LOL... yeah, lets see you hold that opinion after I ghost fleet for an entire game. I'm sure you'll be pissed off at me within 10 minutes.

[kleaverjr]

I still don't understand ghost fleeting. If I'm understanding it, you create a fleet, and when I would espionage a planet, it looks like a fleet is there, but you are able to transfer ships to another created fleet?

 

It wouldn't bother me one bit cuz I don't rely on that kind of intel. I always make sure I have a sufficient force to handle whatever you might be able to throw at me.

 

Or am I still misunderstanding what Ghost Fleeting is all about?

 

Ken L.

aka Darth Siditious

[budious]

No, ghost fleeting allows you to move the destination of a fleet arrival while the fleet is in hyperspace. Basically I could launch a fleet from Yavin and lets say that fleet's destination is Corsin in 100 days, well 98 days into the trip, I suddenly move the destination to Coruscant and circumvent any defense you have prepared for me at Corsin and hyperspace directly into Coruscant. That is ghost fleeting.

[kleaverjr]

Ok...But how can you redirect the destination. ANy time I try to move a fleet that is hyperspace I get the "i'm sorry, units in hyperspace can not receive orders, blah blah blah". So what am I doing wrong? Even though I hvae no plans on using this.

 

Ken L.

aka Darth Sidiitious

[budious]

As I stated originally...

 

"Create an existing fleet on ships at a location. From within the ship browser view of the fleet, select multiple ships you want to create into a new fleet. Move the selected fleets to a new system location. Now browse the fleet view of the destination system, you will notice a stationary fleet icon in which all the ships are in transport to the location. You can now drag the fleet icon to another system location and shift the landing area of the fleet in hyperspace."

 

But to be more specific... you have to select the ships from the fleet browser, not the fleet icon, and move the highlighted ships to a destination other than the system the ships are currently located at. Alternatively, you can queue a large construction of ships to build to a destination other than the location of the shipyards. Say you build 10 corvettes and make the build fleet destination across the galaxy. You will have a standard fleet icon but the contents will either be completed ships arrived, completed ships hyperspace, or ships in construction. You can move the mix of the ships from their destination location to a secondary destination by moving the fleet icon.

[kleaverjr]

So the Fleet itself is not in Hyperspace, just ships being added to a "new" fleet, that is under construction, and as long as one ship is under construction I can more the fleet destination to anywhere I want? I think I am catching on now.

 

It doesn't really matter to me because I tend to think defensively from the beginning and assume the worse case scenario that you will be sending a huge fleet to a particular location (like coruscant) and I don't rely on intel to tell me what is going on with enemy fleet movements. I now do intell (espionage) on my own planets to help detect enemy missiosn especially those of sabotage and abduction/assisnation. Though I still have not found a way to stop Solo. Even though when I play the AI sometimes, he gets captured. Yet during multiplayer, I had over 30 garrison troops and a general in both the fleet defending coruscant and on the planet, ran espionage missions, and Solo STILL succeeded.

 

Ken L.

aka Darth Sidiitious

[budious]

No, the construction example was just the easiest way to illustrate the concept in game. It does not require ships under construction, you can take a complete stationary fleet and utilize the bug by selecting all the ships within the fleet and creating a new fleet including all the ships to a new system location. It creates a stationary fleet icon with all ships contained within as hyperspace status. The stationary fleet icon can now be moved and the travel time will be updated to represent the move to the ships in hyperspace. I don't know how many other ways to explain it. Go try it in game as I have described it and you will understand.

[Verdex]

LOL... yeah, lets see you hold that opinion after I ghost fleet for an entire game. I'm sure you'll be pissed off at me within 10 minutes.

 

Yeah, maybe, even probably. But what I like about Rebellion (as one of many points) - there has always been a way to countermeasure tactics, so to speak

 

But: I, too, prefer games that build on strategy and not on firepower. That's lame. The point here is THAT IS POSSIBLE within the game's limits and therefore allowed

[DarthTex]

It doesn't really matter to me because I tend to think defensively from the beginning and assume the worse case scenario that you will be sending a huge fleet to a particular location (like coruscant) and I don't rely on intel to tell me what is going on with enemy fleet movements.

How can you defend against a huge fleet at every single one of your systems? That's darn near impossible

 

Let's say I'm the Empire and at Coruscant I have the following ships in Fleet 1: 1 SSD, 4 ISD's 4 VSD's, 6 Carracks, 10 Lancers, 4 Escort Carriers & 4 Star Galleons. All ships are loaded with Tie Interceptors and Imperial Army units. Now when I see the list of ships in the fleet icon, I select all of the ships EXCEPT for one, say the SSD. I right click the selected ships and move (or confirmed move) them to Sluis Van (the location of a Rebel Super Shipyard system). The SSD of Fleet 1 is stall at Coruscant, but now Fleet 2 is enroute to Sluis Van. The Imperial "fleet icon" showing up at Sluis Van is not the Imperial "fleet icon in hyperspace", it's the Imperial "stationary fleet icon" (Note: the "icon" shows the miniature stationary ships, while within the ship list all of the ships are in hyperspace). Now, you as the Rebels see this incoming fleet (plus the 56 Tie Interceptors & 32 Imperial Army units). I don't think every single Rebel system can defend against this fleet. You as the Rebel commander move lots of fighters and ships to Sluis Van, and construct multiple Gen Core's and LNR's to defend your Super Shipyard system. Everything is in place to defend against the Imperial fleet with a couple of days to spare. Then the Imperial fleet arrives over Kothlis (the Rebel Super Construction Yard system) instead, easily crushing it's defenses and assaulting the planet, while all of your forces are at the wrong planet! What you didn't see was me moving the Imperial (stationary) fleet icon off of Sluis Van and move it to Kothlis. Since the "icon" is stationary, the ships in hyperspace somehow figured out some means to change course without exiting hyperspace. Something you shouldn't be allowed to do, hence a "bug" that can be exploited.

 

Once the fleet arrives at Kothlis, it can't ghost fleet again. You can pick a subset of this fleet, and do ghost fleeting with the subset of ships, but not the whole fleet. Is that a little bit better to understand?

[kleaverjr]

I only defend key systems. Instead of being spread out all over the place.

 

Ken L.

aka Darth Siditious

[budious]

That won't work because your opponent is just going to pick away at your resource production left unguarded. You need to use Espionage Abort to monitor incoming and to anticipate landings so you can move the defense to the system to protect it. Place the defense at a central system within the sector so the travel time is minimized to any other system within the sector is the best plan and don't get lazy on espionage.

[turtle]

I'm a little confused by the explanation of 'ghost fleeting' too.

[RogueIce]

I'm a little confused by the explanation of 'ghost fleeting' too.

 

Open up a fleet. Now, control-click multiple ships in the window, then move them to a new system. You'll notice that the new fleet icon this creates does not have the blue hyperspace glow. This means you can drag that icon around and change the destination while the ships are still in hyperspace.

 

As an example for a use of this, consider the examples given of when an opponent finds your inbound fleet through espionage and moves forces to counter it. Well, under normal circumstances you have two options: take your licks and fight them (if you think you can win and/or they have gravity wells) or retreat (if they lack gravity wells). With "ghost fleeting" you have a third option: avoid it altogether and send your fleet somewhere else; either to another enemy system they're not expecting your fleet at (since it's after all already inbound) or even send it off to one of your own systems to preserve it.

 

It's an exploit because, as the rules of the game go, "orders cannot be given to ships in hyperspace" as the droids are so fond of saying. So if your opponent sees a fleet in hyperspace going somewhere, he is logically going to assume it will indeed show up on the day it's supposed to. But instead, you used a bug to circumvent this rule and leave him waiting on ships that will never appear. While somebody who knows about and has experience with this trick can probably plan around it, anyone who doesn't know about it (I didn't until I saw it here) is going to be in for a rude awakening when it's used against them.