VA Tech Tragedy & Gun Debate (from world conflicts)

[budious]

So outside of the gun debate... all the news networks seemed to be focused on how to profile people in the future who might be potential school shooters. Wait, so let me get that right, the same group of people who want to profile asain loners and black jacket caucasians won't let us profile middle easterners on airline flights. What gives?

 

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Some students on the popular social site Facebook have started a group honoring and offering sympathy to Cho Seung-Hui Cho. Currently there are 50 members. The group name is Eternal Rest Grant Unto Him, O Lord: Cho Seung-Hui

 

http://wcbstv.com/topstories/local_story_107170729.html

[Lord_La_forge]

Jahled, certainly it's safe for everyone to have a weapon. Aside from the obviously strange circumstances of Switzerland where they keep weapons indoors for military use only, the rest of the world's individuals should very obviously carry firearms! Look at Somalia, Afghanistan, and Iraq: everyone there has their own firearm, and we all know that those are the safest countries in the world!

 

Yay for world safty!

 

Okay, another eurooean raising his voice I'm sticking with Jahled's and SOCL's thoughts exactly. Of course, guns don't kill people, people kill people.

But the "old west, way of the cowboy" is just ridiculous. I do understand why Paul votes for guns, but again it isn't a real solution. If you are not protected by the police/law against criminals, it's obviously the fault of the organizations and maybe the whole government. If so, I wouldn't live there either. You must arm yourself to feel safe? Sad.

 

My country is about the size of NY, so I wouldn't dare to make any compersions, but we do have a lot of violent crimes here too. We also have some school brawls, some teachers and students fighting, revolts on the streets, and many east-block maffia activities, yet very few gunshots.

Here, criminals simply don't have guns (right, not coutning in the maffia).

 

Even for the police, it's almost forbidden to use guns at almost every situation.

Here, every form of lethal weapon is forbidden to us. Only hunters can own hunting guns. If I would live in the US, were anybody can own firearms, I would certainly have mine too, in that form I can understand it. And I don't see a chance of getting this problem solved there. Maybe sell pepper guns?

 

I can't agree with JHunter either. Yes he was rather sick to shoot those people brutally. But he didn't need to buy the gun illegally, he had it already! Or he could buy it any time. So have you tried to get a gun that way? It's not that easy. Atleast here, where it's the only way to get a firearm, it's quite hard to get one. You really need to know some guys from the maffia (I had the chance once to met really bad guys) or some other gangs to get one for really much money (as they are smuggled into the country anyway).

It's just to easy to shoot somebody in the US (technically).

 

We also have these types of guys for sure, but they don't have guns man. Maybe it's the same in his mind, but the results can't be the same, so NO I don't agree if you say, sick people will always find their way to do so. With legalized firearms, you give them a chance to do so.

I'm sure, most citizens with guns do feel responsible for the community. But just imagine some real bad scenario where your girlfrined cheats you with your father, besides you are kicked from the job, and got totally drunk for some nights. It will be always an easy thing to point-and-pull. You can shot your whole family before you realize what you did. And if you do at the end, you can always shoot yourself to ease the pain. It's so easy.

[SOCL]

Some students on the popular social site Facebook have started a group honoring and offering sympathy to Cho Seung-Hui Cho. Currently there are 50 members. The group name is Eternal Rest Grant Unto Him, O Lord: Cho Seung-Hui

 

http://wcbstv.com/topstories/local_story_107170729.html

They are not "honoring" him, budious, they are forgiving him. I've seen these groups on Facebook and they are not intended to honor or agree with what he did, they are Christian-founded groups which, as the saying goes, "forgive their enemies." Forgiveness is not a bad thing, and is actually the mark of a strong soul, especially in a violent crime such as this. The kid was mentally disturbed, very sad, I think, and though I have more sympathy for the victims of this tragedy, I am also sad about this kid's reaction to his own pain. I don't believe in revenge, I find it very un-Christian, so I really don't hold grudges against most people, and though I wasn't directly affected (though the George Mason community has been crawling with cops and a lot of people here, so close to Tech, are traumatized), most seem to have the sense to realize that there was a reason for this situation, not just random act of a violence. It was premeditated, but you watch the video this kid put out, it is very obvious that this kid needed help and not a gun and death. I have a funny feeling that some serious therapy and probably a few hugs could have saved this kid. I say this because my own pop's a therapist and we see these sort of things all the time in the Army--people on the verge of snapping who just need some attention, some kindness, and some love.

 

 

Good to see you around, LaForge! Very few of the old-oldies still wandering about this place. I didn't realize there was a mafia presence in Hungary! What sort of a mafia? I mean, do they have a political intent/founding like others in Eastern Europe, or is like most mafias interested in racketeering?

[Eagle]

I hate to bring this subject down even more, but I just got off the phone with my girlfriend. Apparently one of the victims who was killed was a girl my girlfriend went to highschool with. They knew each other through the drama club. She is pretty shook up about it, knowing that she knew someone involved in that.

Sorry to hear that, give her a hug for me.

 

If you´re german and you like weapons you either have to go to the army or to a local shooters-club ( I hope you call it like that in english ). Both isn´t that easy, because they don´t take everybody. A couple of years ago we had an amok-run on a school. That guy was in a shooters-club and owned a couple of guns. After that incident, people who own guns should have kept their guns locked in a cupboard at home. Now we got another amok-run a couple of months ago and they now talk about that members of a shooters-club should leave their weapons there.

 

So these guns could only be used when you come to the club-house to shoot some rounds. So if you like weapons it should be enough to own them and use ´em only in a secured area like a club-house, where guns should kept locked for savety of course. This should also be a good solution for the U.S. There´s really no reason that everybody has to sleep with his gun unless you´re a soldier and you´re in iraq or afghanistan.

 

@SOCL

Good work putting all four sites into a new thread! http://www.cosgan.de/images/smilie/froehlich/a020.gif

[JediHunter]

Just a quick rebuttal on my part ( I have to get back to work.)... I'm not going to post a link to it nor show it, just out of courtesy for all the victims and those touched by this tragedy, however... one of the pictures of the assailant shows him brandishing a hammer.... does this mean we need stricter hammer laws?.. Obviously everyone will answer no... but whats not to stop people from thinking like that? This guy, along with any other criminal could use any weapon his twisted mind chooses to use.. stricter gun laws wont decrease crime... it will only make it easier for those who want to commit it, as the average person will be unarmed not willing to go through the red tape to own a simple semi-automatic hand gun.

 

I highly disagree with the term "assault weapons" this is a term that originated in the mainstream media (you wont find that documented anywhere though).. and it is quite different from the term "assault rifle".. anyway... the only true classifications that should be used in terms of gun law should be semi-automatic and automatic... Watch this, i think this is educational.

 

If you are telling me that i cant have a weapon to defend my family who is threatened from a perveted home invader that wants to steal my stuff and rape my daughter then you sir are the criminal. I've been trying to search for the news articles but have yet to find them... (which is odd) as this has happened quite regularly in the area i live in.

 

They are trained to shoot to kill, and do so the moment they believe they are at risk. I know this: my grandfather was a police chief, as is my uncle, and a very close family friend. They tell me this all the time.

The several cops I know in my family tree tell me cops are trained to subdue, and NOT kill... at ALL costs... unless the suspect is HIGHLY resistive and dangerous....

[SOCL]

No one is denying that a determined criminal won't get a firearm, nor is anyone denying that lacking firearms, criminals will resort to blades, hammers, and such, rather like a bad version of the game Grand Theft Auto: Vice City. I hear tell on BBC News Hour that in the United Kingdom, youth knife crimes are rather high, but don't you think that if they could get a hold of firearms, firearm crimes wouldn't be on the rise? The fact of the matter is, a knife and hammer are not safe in the hands of a criminal; however, they are safer than wielding a firearm. A firearm has much longer range and more potential to kill en masse than a knife, hammer, or even katana. You have to get close, approach people, to stab and maim them with those sort of weapons, but you do not have to do this with a firearm. Heck, I could sit on top of my roof and pick off those teenagers who walk through the flowers in my backyard with a .30-06 hunting rifle, but I certainly wouldn't be able to running around like a mad man with a katana! I can only target one person at a time with a hand-held swinging and/or cutting weapon, but with a pistol or rifle--bam, bam, bam. I don't have to move my fight, just shift my aim, and I've taken everyone out, and they never had a chance to run. And if they had a gun, they're very unlikely to have a chance to draw and take out the shooter.

 

Fewer or more restrictions on firearms lowers the likeliness of firearm-related crimes and violence. Sure, knife crimes would go up, but you can't stab someone in the back if they take off and run away faster than you can. Of course, there's going to be the determined criminal who trains to throw knives, or rigs his hat out like Oddjob in Goldfinger, but we'll address that issue when it comes. The inability to stop violence and crime doesn't mean we shouldn't try to reduce it.

[Lord_La_forge]

Good to see you around, LaForge! Very few of the old-oldies still wandering about this place. I didn't realize there was a mafia presence in Hungary! What sort of a mafia? I mean, do they have a political intent/founding like others in Eastern Europe, or is like most mafias interested in racketeering?

 

Yes still around and reading much

 

OFF. Maffia stuff

You can't be serious friend Maffia activities are everywhere, it's not just a fairy tale. Yes we do have more smaller factions. Of course there is no publicity for such things. We had once hungarian maffia clans too (Laszlo Gogolak :D from that Bruce Willis movie) but they were hunted down they say. So basicly we have irish, ukrainian and arabian and Gipsy clans I think. Ukranians are atleast sure, as I had met some of them years ago. Not really nice to have small talk with a killer, I don't recommend it

But they mostly are hiring hungarian thugs to do their job, so you won't really see ukrainian thugs terrorising the people. Every country has it's clans, I'm sure with that. But we also have authorities taking care of such things, only God knows how well they actually do their job.

 

ON

I agree with SOCL, that was my point too. I see these weapons as a chance for doing a lot more damage. It's a comfortable way to kill people. And it's really a fast way too. You pull the trigger and it happens. Like a keystroke or a click. Technically it's really different from other weapons, and it's an easy option for such people like Cho.

 

We also have hunters here, I also have friends who collect weapons, but most of them are replicas or sport-rifles (not lethal, and different ammunition). And it takes a lot of administration to get one, not to mention the mental tests. (as in general, it's not normal for a civilian to have guns)

 

I don't see a point of collecting deadly weapons. As a designer, I do love all those objects. I know much as well, and use them really loud when it comes to FPS fun too (Yay for SPAS-12 and Mac11 But Dragunov owns all)

If you want to train your accurity, have some fun shooting around, go play paintball or buy a less-lethal weapon and shoot at cans. What do I know anyway. Just don't tell me you only enjoy shooting with 9mm.

[Jahled]

I'm actually beginning to find the media attention to this latest gun-crime offensive. From the perspective of the like the rest of the world, if you satuarate your society with guns, things like this will very possibly happen, especially in the hands of someone who was quite obviously deeply deranged. The United States is about the richest country in the world, and yet apparently feels only secure if it has 200 million fire-arms amongst it's society. This is an obvious sign of national security.

 

The fact this guy purchased his weaponry in half an hour makes me want to drop a bomb of common sense on your society.

 

Is it wrong of me to think people finding happiness and joy on firing ranges with their automatic weapons is slightly pathetic? What possible sensation can you experience other than an abject sense of personal power unleashing a weapon of warfare on a firing range? Anger management?

 

A sensation of Power? That's what he obviosly felt.

 

And defend your homes!! Cricky, I don't feel the need to smuggle a semi-auto into mine to protect it!. If you guys do, I guess your country is seriously screwed and needs to a very serious debate, because in Europe we don't. It's exceedingly rare over here to have intruders prepared to enter my home with guns, rob my house, and rape my daughter (I currently don't have) Yeah I might just make the paper dying trying to rip an intruder's throat out with my bear hands, but apparently violent crime is far more prevalent in your country. So figure. It's not rocket science.

 

So, yesterday, in Iraq, they suffered their darkest day yet; in so far as the daily slaughter goes, despite George Bush's *enlightened* increased troop deployment.

[budious]

Jahled... your speaking about an American media that just spent the past six weeks talking about nothing except Anna Nicole Smith and the custody battle over her daughter. I would be offended if they spend no less than six weeks covering every angle of this atrocity.

 

This guy was abnormal and all his family, his great-aunt and grandfather have released smashing public statements saying they are glad he is dead and he had always been weird as a child. This kid's family is obviously as deranged as he is but unfortunately our immigration laws won't let us deport threats like these either. Even if he had not possessed a green card he could have legally gone to a University in any of the sanctuary cities established around our country and local law enforcement would be powerless to deport them under the existing statues of limitations thrown up by these ultra liberal communities.

 

"WE ARE GLAD HE IS DEAD: The grandad of university mass killer Cho Seung-Hui said tonight: 'Son of a bitch. He deserved to die'... " reports Matt Drudge.

[SOCL]

Budious, where did you get this? I am watching CNN at this very moment and Cho's family has issued an apology via Cho's sister. They are praying for the families of the dead and wounded from the massacre last Monday. Where did you get that the family is glad he is dead? Here's a link to the article: http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/21/vtech.shooting/index.html

[budious]

I qouted in the original message the source is Matt Drudge (aka Drudgereport.com) ... the link has since been removed but the great aunt and grandfather both made nasty comments about the guy. The immediate family has been a little more neutral in the matter.

[SOCL]

I qouted in the original message the source is Matt Drudge (aka Drudgereport.com) ... the link has since been removed but the great aunt and grandfather both made nasty comments about the guy. The immediate family has been a little more neutral in the matter.

I would hardly characterize a blatant apology as "neutral," but I have to say, I don't really trust blogs very much seeing as their likely to seethe with opinion so typical of the misinformation found these days on the Net. I wouldn't, therefore, invest much trust in what this fellow Drudge wrote, especially since the link has been removed. Not quite reliable, wouldn't we say?

[budious]

Ugh... where the hell do you think the rest of the media gets there big stories from. Drudge usually breaks stuff before the big networks pick it up.

 

http://drudgereport.com/

 

VISITS TO DRUDGE 4/21/07

 

012,474,304 IN PAST 24 HOURS

432,393,513 IN PAST 31 DAYS

4,469,200,960 IN PAST YEAR

 

If you feel like he's too conservative biased, check out the liberal parody version.

 

http://www.fudgereport.net/

 

Strangely enough, they don't post their daily hits so must not have caught on

[Mad78]

I read about this story a few days ago but haven't had time to post about it. Its a truely shocking matter but i find the most shocking is what G. Bush said about it.

[budious]

What part of his comments did you find shocking? Perhaps you foreigners have not adapted your universal communicators to Texan Jibberish yet, us Americans have had 6 years to adapt and like that Indian professor at university, can decipher just enough to pass the class.

[SOCL]

What part of his comments did you find shocking? Perhaps you foreigners have not adapted your universal communicators to Texan Jibberish yet, us Americans have had 6 years to adapt and like that Indian professor at university, can decipher just enough to pass the class.

budious, I must say, I am in agreement with Mad and I have had seven years to accustom myself our President's garbled nonsense that somehow passes for speeches. I'm interested to know precisely what Mad is referring to in case we are not thinking of the same thing.

[Mad78]

I was referring to the bit in which he says that the fact that guns are easily acquired in the States was not a factor in the shootings.

[SOCL]

I was referring to the bit in which he says that the fact that guns are easily acquired in the States was not a factor in the shootings.

And my home State of Virginia is one of the worst offenders of illegal firearms... My apologies to the rest of the country on behalf of my beloved State.

[budious]

More guns may equate more shootings but not necessary humans. Example, redneck neighbors dogs chase our horses through pasture. I warn them to keep their dogs restrained and away from my horses. They shrug it off, I see their dogs chasing my horse again the next day. Shotgun shot to the air, dog runs off but comes back a few minutes later. Next shot, in his direction, stupid dog still doesn't get the point. Next shot, at the dog. Thus, I now have to dig a hole and bury the damn thing. Not my fault! Neighbor didn't give a crap about his dog so I just did what was necessary. Same with guns.

 

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This is the more typical overreaction in process:

 

Essay arrest baffles experts

 

"Police Thursday released portions of an essay used to charge a Cary-Grove High School student with disorderly conduct, leaving several experts puzzled at an arrest based on such schoolwork.

 

Asked to write about whatever he wanted in a creative writing class, would-be Marine and honors student Allen Lee, 18, described a violent dream in which he shot people and then "had sex with the dead bodies.'' "

 

Another asain kid turns in another bizarre creative writing assignment. It's used as the basis for his arrest. This is the downside to the VT shootings, not gun control.

[Lord_La_forge]

Next shot, at the dog. Thus, I now have to dig a hole and bury the damn thing. Not my fault! Neighbor didn't give a crap about his dog so I just did what was necessary. Same with guns.

 

That's a very nice way for solving such complicated problems. Congratulations.

[budious]

Yeah... maybe you would like make mandatory spay and neuter laws upon the U.S.? Got a solution to make my neighbor give a crap about the livelihood of his dog?

[Lord_La_forge]

Yeah... maybe you would like make mandatory spay and neuter laws upon the U.S.? Got a solution to make my neighbor give a crap about the livelihood of his dog?

 

Maybe shoot his family too?

[budious]

Difference is, it's legal for me to shoot the dog.