Some things aren't logical...

[Jahled]

as Evaders mentioned it was a different time that called for different measures..

Not to think about Alec Guiness as Obi-Wan Kenobi doing saltos like his younger being or even Count Dooku did. I don´t think that people wanted to see such kind of martial arts-like lightsaber-fights. Today's movies are just cut so fast that you like to watch something which is a bit slower like the old light saber-duels between Vader and either Obi-Wan or Luke. And as a star wars-fan you expect such a kind of fight and not a Matrix-style.

 

^this completely!!

 

The Star Wars I saw in 1977 was not Fists of Fury, Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, or the Matrix or some similar exaggerated Hong Kong martial arts nonsense. The Force was subsequently believable as a concept in the original movies. I found the concept of the power of the Force slightly John Woo'ed in the prequels, and driven to utter stupidity in my experience of the expanded universe.

 

What threat is a Star Destroyer when a Jedi Master quite obviously on account of Dark Saber can shuve it into a systems sun? (like why into another system?). And this is EU canon? Good grief!

 

Ben must have been meditating when they showed up over Tattooine, and very bored on the Death Star. Christ knows what he could have done with it's reactor with some force-inspired concentration! He looked so concerned on the Milenium Falcon as well! IF ONLY THEY KNEW!

 

Only movies for me, and prequals with a tad of extreme 'caution rating' with what Mike said above.

[DarthTofu]

I'll point out some EU incorporation with Yoda: Yoda is already ancient come TPM. Judging by te EU, it is fully possible to draw on the force to refresh, revitalize, etc. yourself. Luke does this in Dark Tide I: Onslaught to save Jacen, and is exhausted when he finishes using it to slay a measly three Yuuzhan Vong warriors... Before he goes on to slaughter them all with ease

Thus Yoda, already old, might have a body that is failing him. The force revitalizes him, but he is taxing his own strength heavily even when he moves with the force supplementing it. Just an idea, and one based almost entirely off of one author's book...

[Eagle]

Do you remember at the end of RotS ( lol "Rots" in german means the slime in your nose, just another spelling: Rotz. ) you can see that they´ve just started to build the first Death Star, which had its premiere in the first Star Wars movie. Hm, so it took about 20 years to build the smaller first one, but just a couple of years later, they´d nearly finished building the second bigger one. Quite unlogical! Because I don´t think that they did build that nearly at the same time.

[DarthTofu]

Maybe it was because everyone building the new Death Star knew what they were doing as a result of having built the first one. Yeah, I know, retarded... Still, the originals were good movies. And I'll point out that rather substantial chunks of the Death Star were missing, including where I think any propulsion system would go. That would be rather complex and the like. *Shrugs*

 

Oo, plus they don't have to spearhead the technology in this new Death Star. They already have it... It makes a certain degree of sense, though ultimately it would have been brighter if Lucas left the new Death Star out of ROTS.

[Jahled]

Who is to say they didn't have a larger version of the Death Star; ie: the Second Death Star, launched shortly after the first one got under way? There is nothing in the original movies to suggest otherwise if you think about it.

 

If you leave out any slightly dodgy "additions"* from the expanded universe with any reference to what we were shown as Endor in the Return of the Jedi, it could well have been a 'secret project,' kept secret from the rest of the galaxy.

 

Remember the galaxy is vast behind comprehension, so Endor could be hidden by the the Empire quite easily for twenty or so years behind a tight security net; construction workers with no idea where they are working, or to some element what they are working on, if you think about it.

 

*note how GL has ignored them all

[Eagle]

That all would be very logical if they wouldn´t say in the first movie that this Death Star is the ultimate weapon(!). If the first DS was just a kind of prototype why did they built the second one much bigger? http://www.cosgan.de/images/smilie/konfus/a015.gif There´s no reason for that, because even the first was able to destroy a whole planet and vessels. And I guess it was also impressive and big enough. The second DS was maybe more invulnerable against fighters than the first one, but I guess that´s it.

[DarthTex]

That all would be very logical if they wouldn´t say in the first movie that this Death Star is the ultimate weapon(!). If the first DS was just a kind of prototype why did they built the second one much bigger? ...

Well, if you want to terrorize an entire galaxy, it's pretty hard to do with just one DS Eventually, a number of systems could revolt simultaneously which would mean long periods of traveling across the galaxy just to get to the systems. Maybe even have an ambush set at one of them? Say a revolt starts on one side of the galaxy and by the time the DS arrives the systems surrenders (or gets destroyed, which is bad for public PR; and support in Rebellion). Then another system revolts on the opposite side of the galaxy; and this keeps repeating. The DS will be spending the majority of its time in hyperspace. Eventually somewhere, somehow, somebody is going to figure out a way to "neutralize" the DS. So, have at least two. Who knows, maybe there were even more under construction elsewhere? The galaxy is an awfully big place ...

[Jahled]

My otherwise flawless command of the English language may have erred in my last post...

 

Who is to say they didn't have a larger version of the Death Star; ie: the Second Death Star, launched shortly after the first one got under way? There is nothing in the original movies to suggest otherwise if you think about it.

 

Bad use of the word 'launched.' What I meant to say was 'laid down' (as in like a ship's keel. In other words commence construction on.

[Eagle]

Sounds like you are sharing some memories of a recent game of SWR with us, Tex.

[Mitth_raw_nuruodo]

It could be that the one in RotS is the DS Prototype seen in the Jedi Academy Trilogy. Then again, it could just be a crock of shit put out by the Supreme Dumbass, GL.

[Jahled]

It could be that the one in RotS is the DS Prototype seen in the Jedi Academy Trilogy. Then again, it could just be a crock of shit put out by the Supreme Dumbass, GL.

 

It could be, that the Supreme Dumbass, GL, as you put it, quite wisely doesn't give a shit about the Jedi Academy Trilogy or anything else to with the Expanded Universe in so far as his Star Wars vision goes,* given a great deal of it is complete and utter crap; and I doubt he feels any allegiance to have any association with it in so far as the creator's association with it.

 

I'm sorry to sound harsh here, so don't take it directed Mith dude! But sure, wisdom makes sense to open up the Star Wars franchise left right and centre with every manor of plot developments imaginable, but ultimately, GL owes such continuum nothing, in so far as his rather erratic vision of the Star Wars Universe goes. He created it, and like Elvis remarked greatly above, it more or less seems as if in the fashion of a teenager slightly carried away with the latest cinematic graphic technology.

 

I'll forgive him for that, at least I didn't see Buffy and her teenage chums repulse an Imperial Star Destroyer invasion by shoving it through hyperspace, or a sun crusher, the nonsense of World Devastators, or force storms etc. I do have previously stated misgivings regarding how he handled the Jedi in the prequels, but as Elvis pointed out; to much time in front of a green back cloth.

 

*the George Lucas Bank Balance factor

[Evaders99]

It could be, that the Supreme Dumbass, GL, as you put it, quite wisely doesn't give a shit about the Jedi Academy Trilogy or anything else to with the Expanded Universe in so far as his Star Wars vision goes,* given a great deal of it is complete and utter crap; and I doubt he feels any allegiance to have any association with it in so far as the creator's association with it.

 

That is correct. Lucas has stated he does not keep tabs on the Expanded Universe stuff, except probably what the editors bring to him: Coruscant, Anakin Solo, death of Chewie, etc. He would overwrite whatever was done with EU if he were to do a sequel trilogy. His vision is first level canon, everything else is on a lower level.

[Mitth_raw_nuruodo]

I understand what both of you are saying, but in my mind, and I put that in bold for a reason, SW belongs to the fans now. I know we have no legal right to the series, and no say in what GL puts in there. I also know that I've put a lot of time and money into it. It's like someone came in and took a magnet to portions of my hard drive, or went into my room at home and took a hack saw to my swords. Things are damaged and lost.

[Jahled]

I understand what both of you are saying, but in my mind, and I put that in bold for a reason, SW belongs to the fans now. I know we have no legal right to the series, and no say in what GL puts in there. I also know that I've put a lot of time and money into it. It's like someone came in and took a magnet to portions of my hard drive, or went into my room at home and took a hack saw to my swords. Things are damaged and lost.

 

SW belongs to the fans now

 

Why?

[Eagle]

Yes, why??

 

 

When they´d talked about the clone-wars in the old-trilogie I had a much other imagination of it than it was told in the prequels. It was a war against the Confederacy of independent Systems and their battle-droids and not a war against clones. Allthough these clones betrayed their masters, I wouldn´t call that a war. A war is allways called by the enemy, like the vietnam-war or the corea-war, it isn´t called the USA-war or the french-war.

 

So if they were talking about a clone-war I allways thought about a really legendary and deadly war against some kind of clones of whatever. They never mentioned that there is some kind of relationship between the clones and the stormtroopers. You never hear Obi-Wan talking about clones when he talked about stormies. I know that the later stormtroopers weren´t all clones, but if there was such a kind of war before you would keep that in your mind that there was just a change of the armour so you would still call them clones I guess.

[JediHunter]

yea, thats kinda my feeling about it too... i always imagined about the clone war being this huge epic battle between the republic and a bunch of clones that were an invading army or something of the sort... i remember my brother and i used to talk about it alot (we were into the star wars roleplaying game at one point) and i think he may have even read something about it... what they showed in the prequel was not the clone war in my opinion.. it was a sad attempt at working in a bit of exciting action to progress the story.... AND HE DIDNT EVEN SHOW THE STINKING WAR!!!!.. thats what gets me the most upset... anyways.. im gonna read another thread and cool down...

[Eagle]

Allways good to know that JH is on my side.

 

I can remember that before the prequels it was said about Boba that he was a veteran of the clone wars (Note its called "wars" and not just "war"! So there had to be more than just one conflict. If your talking about WW2 you dont even say it´s the second world wars, allthough there was more than just one war in that time). Like JH just mentioned, it would rather be more logical if there was a kind of invasion of the old republic by an army of clones. Boba could have been in that army, so his origins would have been also told, if that´s really as necessary.

[Jahled]

Allways good to know that JH is on my side.

 

I can remember that before the prequels it was said about Boba that he was a veteran of the clone wars (Note its called "wars" and not just "war"! So there had to be more than just one conflict. If your talking about WW2 you dont even say it´s the second world wars, allthough there was more than just one war in that time). Like JH just mentioned, it would rather be more logical if there was a kind of invasion of the old republic by an army of clones. Boba could have been in that army, so his origins would have been also told, if that´s really as necessary.

 

In the original novalization Fett was described as wearing the armour of a 'group of evil warriors defeated by the Jedi during the Clone Wars,' or something along those lines.

 

The book's probably been edited to 'warrior' now though..

[Eagle]

That´s exactly how it was written in the first edition of the "TESB"-book of 1980 I own!

[Mitth_raw_nuruodo]

I understand what both of you are saying, but in my mind, and I put that in bold for a reason, SW belongs to the fans now. I know we have no legal right to the series, and no say in what GL puts in there. I also know that I've put a lot of time and money into it. It's like someone came in and took a magnet to portions of my hard drive, or went into my room at home and took a hack saw to my swords. Things are damaged and lost.

 

SW belongs to the fans now

 

Why?

 

Could you be a little more specific? What from the first quote did you want addressed?

 

I think SW should belong to the fans because if we weren't around, GL wouldn't bother w/ it anymore. He only cares because it allows him to make money, NOT because he still cares about SW.

[Lord_La_forge]

I understand what both of you are saying, but in my mind, and I put that in bold for a reason, SW belongs to the fans now. I know we have no legal right to the series, and no say in what GL puts in there. I also know that I've put a lot of time and money into it. It's like someone came in and took a magnet to portions of my hard drive, or went into my room at home and took a hack saw to my swords. Things are damaged and lost.

 

SW belongs to the fans now

 

Why?

 

Could you be a little more specific? What from the first quote did you want addressed?

 

I think SW should belong to the fans because if we weren't around, GL wouldn't bother w/ it anymore. He only cares because it allows him to make money, NOT because he still cares about SW.

 

Yes but you are a fan of something, he created, and still has the copyrights for everything with it. SW belongs to Lucas, and it's good that way, as we can ignore anything in the EU if we want to (even if it's good) as we have a strong, but not flawless canon with his movies.

Being a resentful fan is just useless. I'll try to love SW the way it is, with all with it's flaws. And if I was able to do that, I'll be happy to call my self SW fan.

I also wouldn't say that GL doesn't care anymore, and is only after the money, as probably his whole life is about star wars anyway. He sure loves SW, but also want to show it to everyone. Like Jahled already wrote.

But sure, thime will come when Lucas steps aside. Who know what things will come

[Jahled]

SW belongs to the fans now

 

Why?

 

Could you be a little more specific? What from the first quote did you want addressed?

 

^This

 

I think SW should belong to the fans because if we weren't around, GL wouldn't bother w/ it anymore. He only cares because it allows him to make money, NOT because he still cares about SW.

 

But that's like saying the American basketball league is owned by the fans because they pay to watch games; yet the fans don't make a dime out their 'ownership,' or have much active say in the daily running of individual teams, even if they turned their backs on any interest of following basketball, and the league folded. Or Harry Potter by the fans on account of it's popularity; yet JK Rowling doesn't heed to any fan input or speculation.

 

But in so far as any creative input from Star Wars fans to the movies we own nothing, other than fond memories from watching the movies. It was George Lucas' baby and has always been free to take it where he wanted. The argument that he made the prequals simply out of greed might seem apparent in the shallows when you glance at the sheer multitude of commercial spin-offs, but given the shear scale of popularity of the franchise, that could be argued as inevitable. But from the depths, you might gleen a film-maker with limitless resources trying to push the cinematic film experience to the limits. In so far as special-effects go each of the prequals came out better than the other, and were simply breathtaking.

 

Also, note how the expanded universe has always been kept vague about the clone war era, or even the events leading upto a New Hope, upto the point of the prequals. That was quite deliberate I suspect because George Lucas probably always knew he would come back and conclude his masterpiece. So no fan ownership there. That was always going to be his blank space for his imagination to fill. I've been following the EU since 1977 and can boldly say there has never been an instance of a Stormtrooper been seen with his helmet off other than the comic adaption of Dark Force Rising on the last page or a pane in Enemey of the Empire. He ignored the wider expanded universe which might have developed who or what Stormtroopers are and showed us his vision, that they are all clones. So no fan ownership or input there.

 

I think George's love of the Star Wars saga is genuine; it's not his fault it's been so successful! Just because there may be elements in the prequals you (or virtually all of us with Jar-Jar) may groan at, Padme having a costume change in virtually every scene can be argued as the 'visual cinematic experience,' he has always said he has wanted of the saga. All the fans do is buy every conceivable plastic action figure with her costume change. But supply is born out of demand. I could go on but I think I am burning my supper.. must investigate..

[Eagle]

He ignored the wider expanded universe which might have developed who or what Stormtroopers are and showed us his vision, that they are all clones.

Not yet. Just read what the official source says about the stormtroopers.

The military soldiers unswervingly loyal to the Emperor, stormtroopers represented the most visible extension of Imperial might. ...

 

... Stormtroopers abandoned individuality in exchange for their loyalty.

(source: starwars.com)

 

Looks rather that it´s still the common and old vision of the classic stormtroopers. Human soldiers encased in a white armoured-suite, who obey every command without questioning.

 

It´s told that the clone-troopers became the ranks of stormtroopers, but I guess we have to see that this must have happen in the beginning of the galactic empire era, where they still hadn´t any regular army to my knowledge. Maybe there were still lots of clones in a stormtrooper-regiment. But I rather believe that these have been reduced. As far as I know clones weren´t seen as real individuals. It´s said that "... they still maintained a spark of independent and creative thinking, making them far better suited than droids to handle unexpected turns of warfare." But that´s just all what makes them individuals.

[Jahled]

He ignored the wider expanded universe which might have developed who or what Stormtroopers are and showed us his vision, that they are all clones.

Not yet. Just read what the official source says about the stormtroopers.

The military soldiers unswervingly loyal to the Emperor, stormtroopers represented the most visible extension of Imperial might. ...

 

... Stormtroopers abandoned individuality in exchange for their loyalty.

(source: starwars.com)

 

Looks rather that it´s still the common and old vision of the classic stormtroopers. Human soldiers encased in a white armoured-suite, who obey every command without questioning.

 

It´s told that the clone-troopers became the ranks of stormtroopers, but I guess we have to see that this must have happen in the beginning of the galactic empire era, where they still hadn´t any regular army to my knowledge. Maybe there were still lots of clones in a stormtrooper-regiment. But I rather believe that these have been reduced. As far as I know clones weren´t seen as real individuals. It´s said that "... they still maintained a spark of independent and creative thinking, making them far better suited than droids to handle unexpected turns of warfare." But that´s just all what makes them individuals.

 

That misses my point Eagle. starwars.com is not George Lucas. It's also full of stuff from beyond the movies. If you simply watched all six movies and couldn't care less about anything else to do with Star Wars, you would quite obviously assume they were all clones.

[Eagle]

Than this obviously couldn´t happen. But you may be right about what belongs to starwars.com.