Opinions of the Yuzhan Vong

[DarthTofu]

Everyone's opinions of the Yuzhan Vong. I personally thought that the Vong books were spectacular- nobody was safe. You were actually concerned when you read the books, and ever when you reread them you wonder who will survive, even if you already know who will and won't.

 

Edit: Doh! I meant to say New Jedi Order. My bad...

[PsychoInfiltrator]

They were good, but there's only one Traitor in the whole bunch.

[Mad78]

At last a series of books for SW were the writting was good!!! They bought a new hope for the EU!

[Krytos]

I'd like to say spectacular. Compared to a lot of the EU, it's great - but, there are still heavy flaws in the story that just bug me (I'm currently re-reading it, upto Star by Star). The plot lines and character interaction are great - it's the "details" that bug me.

As the author changed, so did the consistancy. One minute fleets are massive with 30 ships and the fate of the galaxy hangs in the balance because of this one battle over Ithor! The next minute, there's hundreds of warship duking it out somewhere else not important ... then you have some ships dying easy and other ships that are invulnrable (what comes to mind in Star by Star is how terrifying a Vong warship is until it gets attacked by a handful of jedi in old fighters and Skipray, then they're childs play). Even still with the ever likely chance of a known character dying, they still have an air of superiority about them that's just annoying. Such as where it takes Jacen in Star by Star to point out a weakness in the Vong's defences after glancing at a display, yet none of the New Republic's Intellegence forces noticed.

In fact, the thing that bugged me the most - was how the series made it seems as if the Jedi were this "ubber" force and the New Republic was, well stupid and incompetant. Without a known character present, the New Republic forces would loose.

 

Other than that, it was better than most series, but it still always felt one sided for the majority of the series. The Yuuzhan Vong would be unstoppable for most of the story, until towards the end in the final battle the heros would get away or win. I would have liked a more "realistic" and turbulant feel to it, where there were counts of the New Republic holding off the Vong, launching counter strikes or something more that didn't include the main characters - there was often heresay where the New Republic was loosing, at least throw in some victories.

 

I guess, consistancy wise, I'm use to novels like Battletech where there is constant consistancy between novels ... even if they do get pagued with author fiat constantly

[Paul]

Sorry guys but I disliked the whole concept of the Vong. But thats just me, I have friends who loved them. - Grand Moff Conway

[Eagle]

I agree with Paul. Star Wars was allways about the Light and the Dark Side figthing each other. I´ve never read one of these novells but it looked like that they just wanted to create a kind of super-race which threatens all beings in the known Star Wars-Universe. That´s not "warsy" enough for me.

[Bill]

What the heck is a Yuzhan Vong?

[DarthTofu]

What the heck is a Yuzhan Vong?

 

*Picks up jaw off of the floor* here you go... I suppose I made a mistake in writing "Yuzhan Vong" as opposed to "Yuuzhan Vong," it's just that I pronounce the name in my head as if there were only one "u." At any rate, they spread through the New Republic and slaughtered something north of seven trillion sentient beings, I believe.

[Evaders99]

I'm a stalwart defender of the NJO series. The storyline, as a whole, was done very well - great parts that kept you going through all 19 novels. Though there were some weaker authors, the editing was decent and consistant with my view of Star Wars. I would say it really hits a high point with the hardbacks Star by Star and Destiny's Way.

 

The Vong may not be the most original enemies.. but they are certainly a twist from the Jedi vs Sith eras. The Jedi still play a dominant role, just as they have in every galactic conflict. More than a few characters die, albeit only 2 real main characters. (And don't blame Salvatore guys! He was given a good death in writing... the decision was an editorial board one)

 

I'm actually seeing how this now sets things up for the future. I read the Dark Nest trilogy, and just got the books to start with the Legacy of the Force era.

 

Favorite Books: Star by Star, Destiny's Way, Traitor

Least Favorite: Balance Point

Favorite Characters: Jaina Solo, Tahiri

 

EDIT: I'm thinking we need an NJO Fan userbar now hehe

[Mad78]

Let me try and make one.

 

EDIT:

Here it is

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a359/Mad78/NJOUserbarcopy.jpg

[DarthTofu]

I personally liked Han's Ryn friend, but he was sent off come Balance Point (Piece of crap that it was)

 

I personally liked the Dark Tide, Edge of Victory, and Behind Enemy Lines duologies. 'Course I haven't managed to secure the other half of the Behind Enemy Lines Duology, nor have I finished all of the novels (Damn this island for not having a diverse enough library!) but I did still like them...

 

Favorite characters: Anakin Solo, Corran Horn, Ganner Rhysode, Wedge Antilles.

[ElvisMiggell]

I thought the series was good at the time, but having just re-read the old Rogue Squadron (including the Wraiths) series, i found that to be much better.

 

I'm not quite sure why, i think maybe because there's more "classic" Star Wars in there, and no over-reliance on Jedi.

 

I think maybe 19 books was just too amibitious, i mean, the original trilogy was told in just three books!

[Evaders99]

3 Movies... not books. Yes there were 3 screenplays to make the movies, one for each. But those took time and were specifically developed as movies. To get all the plot and background to make them into a coherent novel plot, it would have certainly taken more than 3 books.

[Bill]

Give me a break people, eventually I will get to the Vong, I don't read as fast as I once did. When you get to 50 you slow down a little.

[DarthTofu]

I thought the series was good at the time, but having just re-read the old Rogue Squadron (including the Wraiths) series, i found that to be much better.

 

I'm not quite sure why, i think maybe because there's more "classic" Star Wars in there, and no over-reliance on Jedi.

 

I think it's just because Stackpole and Alston are superb authors

 

So I finally saw most of the books I was missing... At the bookstore... When I had no money on me. Always annoying...

[BadSamaritan]

Personally, I found the NJO books to be a needed turn in the EU. You can onloy have so many enemies in one galaxy. With the NR and the Empire at peace, they had to come up with something new. And the vong fit the bill perfectly.

 

Also, it brought out the major flaws in the NR government which would lead to its downfall. While everyone loves a republic, the NR, much like the OR before it, was fatally flawed. I was actually happy to see the NR crumble, as I never liked the fact that the Rebellion turned into a government that much like the OR, was far to easy to manipulate and control.

 

Also, it brought about a much needed face for the Jedi, and the force as a whole. The whole "light side good, dark side bad" thing was irritating, as there is always a grey area. And the Jedi finally came to realise that.

 

The one thing that bothered me was that the series was supposed to usher in a new era for Star Wars, but it only half completed that mission. We mostly saw older charachters being brought back for more adventures instead of intorducing new charachters to the plot. Everyone loves Wedge and the Rogues, but how about a new starfighter ace that all the other pilots can hope to be like?

 

Anyways, my $.02

[DarthTofu]

I thought Gavin Darklighter and Jaina Solo were both rather extreme starfighter pilots to act as idols, but then I'm just finding a point of disanalogy.

 

So far as the Jedi are/were concerned, there was some nice development of some of the lesser-known/lesser-utalized characters (Kam and Tionne, for instance) in some of the novels, though as a whole very few authors introduced new characters, or seemed willing to utalize another author's character. Krefey and Vergerre were the only two that seemed to be reemerging, and I think that Vergere was included strictly on the basis of the editors saying, "Hey, make this happen in the next novel!" Wheras Krefey would evolve into something of what Wedge and Rogue Squadron used to be, with the usual "Hey, Wedge, you and Rogue Squadron go kill 8,000 TIEs while we fight!" "Okay, Luke! There aren't any orders for us that we have to worry about or anything!" style character.

 

Still, for all of its flaws, the series is one of the best to be produced by a succession of differant authors.

[SOCL]

The New Jedi Order strikes me as the Star Wars of the 21st Century, moving away from the rather chaotic, if not utterly confusing storylines and plots which normally didn't even connect of Ye Olde EU (i.e. post-Jedi to Hand of Thrawn duology) to a clear direction. The fact that the authors actually worked together on an overarching plot made it all the better and easier to understand.

 

On the other hand, the NJO brought some poison in the EU. First is the idea of retroconning every last aspect of the Star Wars universe so that not only does everything connect (which is rather good), but makes every last bloody thing related. A lot of people blame this on the prequels, but the fact of the matter is that the NJO came before the big retrocons in the prequels (namely between Episodes II and III) and attempts to make sense of the older EU. In so doing, though, it takes away a lot of the value many of the characters and plots had, reducing them to pawns or minions of some other power (e.g. how Thrawn was trying to prepare the galaxy for the Vong invasion rather than trying to take it back from the Republic for the sake of the Empire). It just left a bad taste in my mouth, I suppose.

 

The Vong, though, were awesome, but I think that they weren't quite as well utilized as they could have been. I mean, for goodness sake, the Black Fleet Crisis trilogy had more realistic action (namely military engagements) than the NJO, and they had a whole slew of books to play with! Further, the NJO opened the door to a lot more nonsense leaking into the EU. Take for instance Karen Traviss and her fetish for Mandalorians in general and Boba Fett in specific. I mean, no offense, I liked her Republic Commando novel Hard Contact, but Triple Zero was full of nonsense with the "ultimate warrior" clones actually going out and trying to mate and what not. If the Kaminoans were so perfectionist as Traviss explicitly states, wouldn't they have suppressed all those feelings and such? So now we're going to have a Jedi-Mandalorian-rogue baby of a clone commando trooper and a Jedi Knight? Absolute rubbish! (if you have no idea what I'm talking about, read Republic Commando: Triple Zero).

 

I don't know. The NJO was good alone, but the effect it has had on Star Wars as a whole I think has been rather negative. That's not to say more communication and cooperation between the authors of the various novels isn't good, but they're allowing a lot of rubbish into the series. I think of it this way:

 

Here are some things I think are really cool:

-Tyrannosaurus rex
-Ford Mustangs
-Roman history
-sandwiches

 

Got it? Those are all really cool things, so let's combine them to form the coolest thing ever!

 

NO!

 

That's what the NJO has done to Star Wars, in my opinion: it has tried to take a lot of cool things and combine them into one under the mentality that it will be especially cool! And they couldn't be more wrong. Personally, I don't want a damn Tyrannosandwichistorymustango rex.

[ElvisMiggell]

Dare i suggest that perhaps the main plot of Star Wars EU has run it's course?

 

What i mean by that is that there's only a certain amount you can do with Luke Leia Han etc etc... and it feels like that's coming to an end.

 

The problem is, to kill all of them off would be nigh on impossible, but how else can Jacen Jaina etc ever really become the focus of a new era. Which leads to another problem, what about villains?

 

I think that maybe it's time for the writers to focus on more 'outsider' type characters. Would it hurt for example to do a trilogy of Thrawn books set in the unknown regions, or possibly follow Palleon in his quest to unite the empire, or maybe even do something real with Dash Rendar. All of these people have featured in Star Wars, and have so much left to be written about in the current chronology, rather than trying to extend the existing one further, why not flesh it out a bit?

[SOCL]

Dare i suggest that perhaps the main plot of Star Wars EU has run it's course?

 

What i mean by that is that there's only a certain amount you can do with Luke Leia Han etc etc... and it feels like that's coming to an end.

We are in agreement in that regard, Elvis.

 

The problem is, to kill all of them off would be nigh on impossible, but how else can Jacen Jaina etc ever really become the focus of a new era. Which leads to another problem, what about villains?

Lumiya and the revived Sith from the Legacy era comics.

 

I think that maybe it's time for the writers to focus on more 'outsider' type characters. Would it hurt for example to do a trilogy of Thrawn books set in the unknown regions, or possibly follow Palleon in his quest to unite the empire, or maybe even do something real with Dash Rendar. All of these people have featured in Star Wars, and have so much left to be written about in the current chronology, rather than trying to extend the existing one further, why not flesh it out a bit?

Sadly, it all boils down to sales. I agree with you wholly, Elvis, and would love more novels about outsider/minor characters, especially the tragic tale that most certainly must exist concerning Pellaeon's career following Thrawn to the time of the treaty. Even so, I think it's a minority of fans who will find it interesting. Look at Outbound Flight the novel--it's all about minor characters with only two major characters (namely Obi-Wan and Anakin) taking on minor roles which could have been totally excluded from the novel's plot as they didn't contribute a damn thing. Well, I'm not sure about overall sales across the market, but I've worked into two separate bookstores since the release of that novel and from my observations, it is one of the least sold Star Wars novels. Novels like the Thrawn trilogy and Jedi Academy trilogy continue selling much better.

[DarthTofu]

I'd kind of like some more info on Fel and his time spent in the unknown regions. I know there was one novel on Jag and his clawcraft and all that, but one on the Baron himself would be much appreciated.

[SOCL]

I'd kind of like some more info on Fel and his time spent in the unknown regions. I know there was one novel on Jag and his clawcraft and all that, but one on the Baron himself would be much appreciated.

Novel about Fel? Wasn't that just a short story from Insider? "Red Sky, Blue Flame" or something like that?...

[DarthTofu]

Oh... Right. That it was. My bad.

 

Edit: $49.07 later I now own almost every book in the series short of the internet novels, Balance Point, and the last two novels. I'm rereading the good ones and the essential ones (Dark Tide, Edge of Victory, Star by Star, Behind Enemy Lines) and the beginning the new ones (Dark Journey, (I know, I heard it was crap, but I still want to read it) the other half of Enemy Lines, Traitor, Destiny's Way, and the Force Heretic trilogy) Right now I'm on Dark Tide II: Ruin. In my defense I already reread Edge of Victory, as well as Rebel Dream.

[ElvisMiggell]

Good work.

 

I'm still waiting for Legacy of the Force - Betrayal to come out in paperback, i've already got Bloodlines ready and waiting.

 

I think that's the dirtiest cheapest trick in the book, having the first in the trilogy in hardback for ages and then releasing the others in paperback to try and make me spend more and get a hardback of the first and then paperback of the second and third.

 

Well no more i say! I'm not reading the second book until the first comes out in paperback, and damn them if that leaves me behind the times!

 

Scummy George Lucas and his cash grabbing antics!

[SOCL]

Good work.

 

I'm still waiting for Legacy of the Force - Betrayal to come out in paperback, i've already got Bloodlines ready and waiting.

 

I think that's the dirtiest cheapest trick in the book, having the first in the trilogy in hardback for ages and then releasing the others in paperback to try and make me spend more and get a hardback of the first and then paperback of the second and third.

 

Well no more i say! I'm not reading the second book until the first comes out in paperback, and damn them if that leaves me behind the times!

 

Scummy George Lucas and his cash grabbing antics!

I heard a rumour that the Bloodlines won't be coming out in paperback at all. Same goes for the fourth one in the series, by that I mean the next one to be released. So say the folks at the bookstore where I work... I hope it's not true.