Your thoughts on Empire at War and Star Wars Rebellion!!!

[Flashman22]

Hi,

 

Just been playing Starwars - Empire at War for the last week or so and think it is a great game but could have been better! This reminded me of a little flawed gem of a game I played in the 90's called Star Wars Supremacy or Rebellion over in the states. So I searched my room and finally found a highly scratched rebellion CD-ROM at the bottom of my dusty chest of drawers.

 

I remember this game especially because it had a large encylopedia and a great array of characters to put on missions and command armies and fleets, also the ability to name ships and fleets was there.... something which empire at war could have done.

 

Also I remember taking great pride in my fleets and being very upset if I lost a capital ship in battle because I became attached to them and they took time to build. This is a feeling Empire at war completly lacks as you can build star destroyers with the click of a finger and the auto names assigned to them just dont do it for me..especially since most of them end up being the same!!

 

Also a major thing that I felt Empire at War lacked was experiance for troops or ships which have seen alot of combat and again the ability to rename them. Obviously if you created a Regiment of Stormtroopers which developed into a crack fighting force you would want to give it a special name to merit it's elite status, you would then have these guys fighting in all the major battles you encountered..or even just name a squad for a great brave defence of a planet. But even more simply how much better would it be if you could just name you armies to say the 31st Fondar Armoured divsion or your fleet guarding Courscant to the Core Defense Fleet.

 

Empire would have benifited from a wide array of characters like rebellion aswell again further putting pride in your fleets... how great would it be knowing your prize Star Destroyer or Calamari Cruiser was commanded by Grand Admiral Thrawn or Admiral Akbar rather than just an unnamed officer. Also the fleets and armies would get bonus depending on the type of character in command..... say mabye all Interdictors under Thrawn get a speed and defence bonus ect ect

 

Empire is a great game, espcially the space battles and obviously more dumbed down than rebellion to hit it's target audiance but wow what a great game you could make my merging ideas from both games into one..... I def think a Rebellion 2 should be made!

 

 

Anyone else played both games?, anyone else think a merging between the two would make a for a great complete game?

[Mad78]

I prefer the name borrowing elements.

If Rebellion borrowed just a bit from Empire at War it would be even better than it already is. For Rebellion it would be great to add unit experience as a factor.

[Zer_Teron]

I still cant believe they didnt put ship naming in EaW, they promised it to us and never corrected themselves.

[Darthvegeta800]

Just played it and so far it rocks, as good as Rebellion.

Better in some areas, worse in others.

Shipnaming is a big miss though a shame.

[Flashman22]

Just played it and so far it rocks, as good as Rebellion.

Better in some areas, worse in others.

Shipnaming is a big miss though a shame.

 

Yeah I agree great game, would be unfair to compare it to Rebellion as it is not a sequal but a game in it's own right..ship naming would have been so much better though

[Darthvegeta800]

But unlike in SW Rebellion i actually fight the spacebattles.

I really disliked the spacebattle system in Rebellion and had it autorun.

Here i frequently take command. And the graphics make it worthwhile.

[Habalabam]

Absolutely,

 

The space battles do not compare at all.

 

I think that character development (ie renaming and experience benefits) is a significant shortcoming of EAW.

 

The other thing I miss is the tension. The slow pace. The importance of intelligence. I think the fleets move way too fast. I miss the change of pace between sectors and systems. The advantage of cleaning out an entire sector.

 

I think one of the most exciting moments in SW:R was to keep an entire sector clear of Empire intrusion. And to use your intelligence units to reveal information about an enemy fleet scheduled to arrive. And then prepare for their arrival with a huge concentrated fleet, planetary defenses and ships with gravity wells. To prepare for battle, so to speak.

 

I also enjoyed the charm of the heroes. How their individual stories where driven forward, but not forced.

 

I also enjoyed how the games themselves unfolded in a way that gravitated towards how the factions related to eachother in the movies, but with very little actually FORCED by the game.

 

There is a saying that you never have to feel sorry for a mouse because cats exist. A mouse survives by being a mouse. I feel that in the EAW the rebels survive by being Empire.

In a cat&mouse game, you wouldn't solve the balancing problems by resizing the mouse and giving it claws.[/b]

[Evaders99]

Comparing 1998 technology to 2006.. duh

 

Unfortunately after playing most RTS games.. from Starcraft, AOE, C&C.. to Homeworld - it really feels mostly the same old stuff. Space battles feel like the same 2D battles, most like Star Trek Armada. While Rebellion's graphics weren't the best, its tactical battle is much the forerunner to the 3D feel in Homeworld. Attack from any direction. Plus awesome 3D models, environment, easy mouse controls to view in any direction - That's how I'd like to see my space battles

[Darthvegeta800]

THE GOOD:

 

Space battles are better.

Groundbattles are in it FINALLY. (: (though AI is at times CRUMMY) but heck better than randomized

Graphical unequalled in it's genre. (spacebattles)

Fastpaced, lotsa ships fast.

Like Rebellion mild economics, military and construction.

Hero units that have a huge direct impact.

Interesting era. Units from end of clone wars and rise of Empire.

DARTH VADER on land AND in space

 

THE BAD:

 

AI

No shipnaming

No experience

Not the unique but fun OT 'events'.

Lacks the OT technology we all love. Darktroopers and SSD's? (;

Less heroes than Rebellion.

Not slowpaced (at times a bad thing)

Autocontrolled battles less good/fair.

 

 

 

Overall:

 

They equal. We finally have a modern SW Strategy game that has a full spectrum off the war. First since Rebellion.

I like it. And i hope for many mods. Not conversions but MODS to add to it. More units, later period included.

I'm betting we'll see an official add-on if it's got decent succes.

In any case i'm satisfied is fun.

[Flashman22]

Comparing 1998 technology to 2006.. duh

 

Unfortunately after playing most RTS games.. from Starcraft, AOE, C&C.. to Homeworld - it really feels mostly the same old stuff. Space battles feel like the same 2D battles, most like Star Trek Armada. While Rebellion's graphics weren't the best, its tactical battle is much the forerunner to the 3D feel in Homeworld. Attack from any direction. Plus awesome 3D models, environment, easy mouse controls to view in any direction - That's how I'd like to see my space battles

 

 

I agree

 

With regards to land battles though it really strikes and annoys me why no other games developer try and copy the way the Total War series handles there battles with set armies going into battle on an actual battlefield or sieging a city.

 

So many RTS games still copy the AOE formula an to be quite honest I just find these games simple and boreing.. I want to go into battle like a real general would not gather a ton of AT-ST's and go on a rampage without any real idea where im going. Whats the point in shooting factories ect... my main goal should be to destroy my opponants army?

 

Okay so air units may need work done to implement on a Total war battlefield but Starwars units should be easy. Divsions of 100 stormtroopers in a loose formation flanked by AT-ST's 2 AT-ST's bringing up the rear, mabye a few specilised unit's that can deploy a mounted repeating blaster.... few mobile artillery pieces. The rebellion can make use of trenches which they can build on planets they control and defensive turrets.

 

Storm troopers would basically march forward like 17th century musketmen in a loose formation (like the clones in EP2) and engage enemy infanty.

 

whilst supported by armoured units which are basically mechanized calvlary.

 

I reckon this would be great and make for a far better battle experiance than just the dumb AOE,C&C way...it's like 10 years out of date.

[Darthvegeta800]

Total War i love. I agree but you need to put it in perspective.

Total War is not a series that has mass appeal and we so know how Lucasarts loooooves to sell it's candy to the masses.

 

As for massive battles perhaps.

It seems in part the price to pay for the versatility AND the great graphics.

It's not Blizzard who made this after all.

Deadlines and wanting to get it on the market. So the land battles have gotten the easy route.

They're good, the system works and it's easy in use. But it's not 'new'.

As for the spacebattles, personally i think they went beyond the call of duty there. It works well, doesn't bore and is fluent. As it should be.

i do hate the typical RTS unit limitations though.

If i have 60 VDS's i want to bring em all in. Or at least half of em!

And i want to be able to choose what goes in in the battle if you go for limitations not the random choices of the comp.

 

GREAT game. HUGE replayability like Rebellion.

But like Rebellion imperfect and imperfect because of the sheer size of what it's trying to aim at.

I wish they'd waited if need be a year longer to perfect it. But i'm satisfied with my buy nonetheless.

Perhaps an add-on will improve things.

More events, more units and a campaign that's REALLY long and that extends the map.

[Zer_Teron]

Its also easier to mod than Rebellion, plus their going to release a map editor

[Darthvegeta800]

They are? Cool.

How come it's easier to mod?

 

And yeah i noticed the 'custom map' option.

Looks promising. (:

[Zer_Teron]

I mean out of the box easier, plus any editor coming out for it will have more functionality. Theres more to edit. They are releasing the Map Editor and Stat Editor in about a month.

[Darthvegeta800]

 

Could you plz put up a notification in this thread when it's released. I'd HIGHLY appreciate it.

[DarthTofu]

*Glares at everyone who owns the game* I still have to wait before I can get it if I want to be BFME2... Oh well, it'll be worth the wait... 'Course I could always just cheat Lucas out of what he isn't entitled to...

 

W00t, just 14 hours to go!

[Grand_Admiral_Thrawn]

While I like the game, I think I can sum it up in three words: Rebellion for Idiots. Don't get me wrong, the game is fun, but it's basically Rebellion sans many of the good features, with a new shiney look. That's really what is pulling gamers in is the "Oooh, new and shiney" factor. Rebellion has dated graphics, but it is more involving gameplay wise.

 

Again, I do enjoy the game, and I will continue to play it, that's just the way I see the game.

 

Now, if they expand on the game a little with some patches, all will be well in the universe.

 

There is one major thing that bothers me. Apparently having a fleet of Star Destroyers in orbit can't prevent a planet from being taken. The Rebellion is able to just drop some tanks onto a planet, despite the fleet in orbit, and take over.

[budious]

There is one major thing that bothers me. Apparently having a fleet of Star Destroyers in orbit can't prevent a planet from being taken. The Rebellion is able to just drop some tanks onto a planet, despite the fleet in orbit, and take over.

 

I hated that in the demo. I thought maybe it would work differently in the retail version... but apparently not. Rebel transports have the ability to run past imperial blockades... I thought that was only with the help of Ion Cannons in TESB at Hoth. Lambda shuttles have no similar ability?

[Evaders99]

It was part of the tutorial in the demo.. the same tutorial in the retail version. Essentially the Rebels can use small forces as "raid fleets" - able to take the system when it is being blockaded by Imperials

[Darthvegeta800]

But these forces can't be 'big'. In an interview movie they said it was only 2-3 units. So you need to garrisson it.

If it's got a good garisson and defences the A.I. will fail. Only when VERY lucky or played by a human will it be very succesful.

 

Oh small tip btw... SHIELD GENERATORS. Though most of you probably know that already

[Pierre]

If you don't have it, don't buy it. Except if, like me, you just cannot help buying any SW video game...

 

I was bored with EAW like 4 days after I had it. I started the Empire campaign... The game is so repetitive that I started to auto-resolve the battles and then, of course, definitely quit it.

[Darthvegeta800]

That's one view but i differ.

It's like Rebellion a great in between game that can take ages to round up.

It has great mod possibilities too which only add to the length of the game.

 

Besides it's a good concept. It excells in no field but it manages to unit space, land and building in one. Which makes it worth the buy.

But that's my opinion. It's a typical... I keep coming back in between games.

[Zer_Teron]

Empire at War is easily as moddable, even more so as you can easily add new units and technologys. Even edit the way battles are fought.

[smellymummy]

so scale wise, EaW is no comparison to rebellion?

 

what about solving the rebellion fix, can this game do that? or am i just going to find myself clicking around like crazy rushing to move units here and there a la aoe/ee/c&c/etc ?

[BeerSnorkel]

Comparing 1998 technology to 2006.. duh

 

Unfortunately after playing most RTS games.. from Starcraft, AOE, C&C.. to Homeworld - it really feels mostly the same old stuff. Space battles feel like the same 2D battles, most like Star Trek Armada. ...

 

I avoid RTS's like EAW cause I just absolutely SUCK at the RTS ground combat . The EAW demo was pretty but I constantly got wiped out trying to kill the ATATs with a few puny Rebs. I need a AI button on ground combat for me to actually lay down money for EAW or any RTS .