Is EAW another Force Commander?

[Bill]

Is EAW another Force Commander? I hope not, because I hated that game. All that 3D crap, I hope it's worth the $50 I'm going to slap down on it.

[Evaders99]

Force Commander was much better ground combat than EaW. EaW just looks cartoony and not that interesting. The map from the demo just didn't make me feel I was on Tatooine the way FC did.

 

Is it 3D.. yea it has 3d graphics. But does it matter? No, you're still essentially playing top-down. The ground combat really had no strategy. Kill the base's power generator, bombing run until they die. At least FC, control points had a much bigger role. Plus I actually prefer a system of base building, rather than.. here's my units given and just attack the enemy's static base.

[budious]

Force Commander was much better ground combat than EaW. EaW just looks cartoony and not that interesting. The map from the demo just didn't make me feel I was on Tatooine the way FC did.

 

Is it 3D.. yea it has 3d graphics. But does it matter? No, you're still essentially playing top-down. The ground combat really had no strategy. Kill the base's power generator, bombing run until they die. At least FC, control points had a much bigger role. Plus I actually prefer a system of base building, rather than.. here's my units given and just attack the enemy's static base.

 

I'm inclined to disagree with you on this one. Force Commander was horribly unbalanced. Anyone with any multiplayer skill had a huge advantage using imperial units. Using rebels was a pure handi-cap. The fighters in Force Commander pretty much killed the ground combat because LEC refused to release any sort of patch that gave the anti-aircraft turrets or units effective range.

[R2-Opus2]

I think EAW's ground combat, it seems to me to be more straight forward than FC's was, without all that camera angle confusion works best for me. Along these lines, I could do without the cinematic views on both space and ground. On the issue of control points, I'm glad those bunker things aren't in this one as its about the landing zones you need to take more than anything to allow more units, but also its tied to the planets you hold too. I like that this part is streamlined a bit in an overall territory sense.

 

I would have (forgone the cinema view myself) preferred to be able to jump into the bridge/cockpit of a ship or FPS style on the ground to control individual units personally (in tandem after having gave general orders to everyone else that is). For instance, I would have loved to been able to jump into the cockpit of a snowspeeder ala Shadows of the Empire to take down walkers (to me the best part of that game), but oh well.

 

Still, EAW is starting to have a wierd effect on me. There's an addictiveness to it in terms of thinking about it when I'm not playing it. I guess that's the intended effect a demo should have on me. I just hope that the 40 or so planets will be varied enough to be interesting arenas cause I have a feeling it might not be. Here's hoping mods, or the ability to expand on the number of planets is somehow possible down the pike.

[Evaders99]

Well I can't comment in terms of multiplayer. I just don't have time to really play multiplayer that much. I'm hoping the single player will be good, but I don't see anything yet that would indicate storyline supporting ground combat. I really got into FC because it had a decent plot and goals that weren't all just usually deathmatch.

 

I really saw no use for cinematic mode. Just couldn't really use it to play, just make good screenshots. I really do prefer the 3D camera.. it gives you a lot of flexibility to view the maps from different angles. There are very good systems that can utilize the 3d to make maps more interesting.. EaW just seems flat 2D. But well, then they don't have to worry about how to handle 3D controls (bad controls sucked for FC, while good controls made Homeworld easy)

[Zer_Teron]

Force Commander was much better ground combat than EaW. EaW just looks cartoony and not that interesting. The map from the demo just didn't make me feel I was on Tatooine the way FC did.

 

tsk tsk, you must not be a good player. I had Force Commander and liked it alot but the Ground combat in the Demo is just so much more better, better graphics, balances, timers took about the right amount of time, and it is just plain good.

[Evaders99]

I didn't see much balance really. Ground combat felt like a typical game, kill their defenses with as much force as you can. Not interesting in my eyes.. I hope single player will be much better than what's shown in the demo so far

[budious]

What really bugged me was the fact I found one major/one minor bugs in Force Commander within the first month of it's release and reported those to the developer who response was "Ugh... thanks for the notice." and then LEC never patched anything.

 

http://us.geocities.com/budskorner/fcproject/bugs.htm

 

Note, that page is very old... and doesn't include my rant about anti-air unit range not being effective against the fighters. Why include AA units when their range is shorter than that of the fighters gun ranges?

[Slocket]

Was FC ever mod friendly to change teh AA range?

 

The pathfinding in FC was sticky also. But FC had alot more interesting stuff going on than EAW.

 

As for the camera, FC was hard to learn but I had no real problem with it after learning and using; in EAW they just do not let you have no control to solve the 'learning 3D camera' problem.

 

Eye candy I am afraid EAW ist.

[R2-Opus2]

FC had a few elements I remember digging, like being able to load infantry inside a transport, then when you got in range (and if you had multiples of transports, then highlighting them), you only had to click one button to disgorge them all of their troops.

 

While that doesn't appear to be a carry over type feature, I think it could have benefitted a little from that experience. Now a few things I like in EAW that are not in FC, is that every ground unit (infantry at least so far) has a secondary ability of spreading out and kneeling when firing - I guess to prolong their health a bit longer than if they were standing and firing - which makes some tactical sense. However, I think Evaders has a point though about just being able to swarm a target.

 

Its hard for me to tell just from the demo though if capturing things like that Tatooine bunker helps your fixed defenses like turrets to stand a chance against swarm tactics by infantry. Its a shame they didn't have a little bit of a positional swap in the demo to try to better understand things from the opposite side like this. Also no opportunity to look into defending against fleets in orbit.

[budious]

Its hard for me to tell just from the demo though if capturing things like that Tatooine bunker helps your fixed defenses like turrets to stand a chance against swarm tactics by infantry. Its a shame they didn't have a little bit of a positional swap in the demo to try to better understand things from the opposite side like this. Also no opportunity to look into defending against fleets in orbit.

 

The benefit to capturing it is that if you select the building and look at the unit display there are 3 icons which are "upgrades" that can be bought for various amounts of credits. They are somewhat beneficial... the ironic thing is even against a sizeable army on Tattooine map... you can land with one unit, use the local inhabitant units to rush turret build points, through up turrets ASAP and work yourself from point to point and pretty much win under any conditions.

[Zer_Teron]

kill their defenses with as much force as you can

 

Not so, i had 15 squads of Rebel Troopers and tryied to swarm a Turbolaser battery, and lost every single one of them. You have to have the correct units and a good sound strategy, alot harder considering that you dont know what defenses they have and they can change the entire turret grid in between your waves

[R2-Opus2]

I'll take another look at the description of those bunker powerups later when I play again. I know one boost was for infantry, one looked to be for sensors - seeing through the storms I guess (since I never placed a sensor on a build pad - didn't notice it helped line of sight much when I did) and I forget what the third one was. I think for the tank.

 

Still, it leaves me wondering what other kinds of powerups there could be. Maybe there is one for fixed buildings on other planets. I just hope that they are varied and that there are very few bunkers with too many. I think this one at least showed that 3 is probably a good basic number to start from. Yet I suppose a bunker that had many more powerups would just mean its that much more of an important object to keep in control of.

[budious]

Not so, i had 15 squads of Rebel Troopers and tryied to swarm a Turbolaser battery, and lost every single one of them. You have to have the correct units and a good sound strategy, alot harder considering that you dont know what defenses they have and they can change the entire turret grid in between your waves

 

Get the mercenary bunker, use the upgrades to boost infantry speed and to counter sand-storms. Go around the outside and assault from the top downwards. Knock out the shield gen if there is one, use a bomb run on power generator and kill it. This weakens the turbo lasers considerably. Make sure your troops are not in take cover mode or they move slowly, rush quickly into the turbo laser as close as they can be positioned, then use the take cover mode. The turbo laser has a minimum range and can't fire at close targets, take it out.

 

Still, it leaves me wondering what other kinds of powerups there could be. Maybe there is one for fixed buildings on other planets. I just hope that they are varied and that there are very few bunkers with too many. I think this one at least showed that 3 is probably a good basic number to start from. Yet I suppose a bunker that had many more powerups would just mean its that much more of an important object to keep in control of.

 

If you are the defender and have a barracks, there are upgrade options available there, as well as light factory, heavy factory, etc. for those type of units. These facilities also spawn units during the battle.

[Zer_Teron]

So i wouldnt be stopped by the 3 Anti-Infantry turrets they can set up while they scout my approaching force?

[R2-Opus2]

I'm not sure yet, but while witnessing some fo the build pad turret behavior after I built some, I don't get the sense that they track all that well independent of clicking on it and then targeting a pile of infantry. On the other hand I've seen the AI's small turret behavior and it looked like it was working ok.

 

I thought that maybe they worked just as effectively if you didn't have to pay attention to them i.e. enemy gets within a specific range, they fire for you.

 

Or maybe I'm fumbling around a bit i.e. maybe I should be left single clicking after selection to fire as opposed to right clicking? Not sure, but I got to thinking about it today when I was using Chewie to steal vehicles for the first time.

 

Perhaps the demo doesn't quite have all it needs for the functions to work properly or as quickly otherwise. Or again, perhaps they'll work better if there was a powerup associated with them. I'm thinking there probably was one for the Empire cuz it appeared anyway that they were working better for them than for the Rebels.

[budious]

So i wouldnt be stopped by the 3 Anti-Infantry turrets they can set up while they scout my approaching force?

 

By turbolaser I assumed we were talking about the 3 large planetary defense turrets. For the anti-infantry, use heavy armor units AT-ST's to quickly knock those out, and troops can easily take out the anti-vehicle turrets. Or just find a defensive posture and use the fast forward feature and use a bomb run. The best strategy is not to go in through the bottom... circle around to the top of the map and drop in through the open center at top.

[Jahled]

One thing I never got to grips with in Force Commander were the game controls. As memory serves me, they seemed very clumsy. Whilst some of you may not have experianced this, is gameplay in EaW less, how can I put it, controls-intensive?

[budious]

One thing I never got to grips with in Force Commander were the game controls. As memory serves me, they seemed very clumsy. Whilst some of you may not have experianced this, is gameplay in EaW less, how can I put it, controls-intensive?

 

It works alot like AoE gameplay in many ways. Double click a unit to select all of its type. Hold ctrl+# to assign the selected units to a hotkey group. You can use W to set movement way points, etc. Once you get your units assigned to groups it's fairly simple in my opinion to easily command a large attack force in this game.

[R2-Opus2]

That was one thing I hadn't experimented with yet, setting up hotkey groups. Glad to know its there.

 

About taking out those two big turbo towers, I've done it a few different ways, but usually I wound up using an infantry group (1 load of 3 groups of 5) plus 1 1/2 - 2 of the plex rocket guys and a smattering or two of the local natives that you can use.

 

I start by going after the bottom left turret first, and I inch my squads up to the shield barrier, and once through I set whoever I can to kneel and spread out while they attack. Meanwhile from two points, and now that I have the tower distracted dealing with the ground pounders, I sneak 1 or two artillery pieces into range to help finish it off.

 

One good spot I've found for one artillery unit is position it just inside of the left landing circle - inching it up to the right boarder of it so it's rockets will reach the tower. Its a little tricky and takes some practice since I've lost artillery to the turbo tower doing it this way too (referring to the tower that's just in side their main base area, not the south tower).

 

Sometimes I find Boba Fett here just inside the shield, waiting for some reason and not moving until my people come into view (sometimes though he's mobilized from the beginning)

 

One reason though I think Tatooine's map became easy (granted after I learned how to use my forces better) is the poor placement of the power generator. Its much too easy to reach with an artillery piece just to the left of the build pad on the right side of the map (north east landing site). I think it should have been a little more centrally placed, perhaps nearer the sheild projector.

[DarkLord_Sion]

I'd have to disagree, EAW is more like Rebellion than Force Commander. It is a bit cartoony in graphics, but the game play's not bad at all. Although i will agree with Evader that the land combat is soooo incredibly unorganized and is really just a 'who has more units' type of thing.

[Krytos]

I'd have to disagree, EAW is more like Rebellion than Force Commander. It is a bit cartoony in graphics, but the game play's not bad at all. Although i will agree with Evader that the land combat is soooo incredibly unorganized and is really just a 'who has more units' type of thing.

 

Well, it's been revived so I'll weigh in. You're right about the game over all being more like Rebellion than FoC. Although, I actually find ground combat to be more fun than space combat most of the time. When dealing against the AI, at least, I rarely find myself pulling in more and more re-enforcements. In fact, I rarely pull in the full 10 points.

The Galactic Conquest game I'm playing currently had me yesterday fighting off at least 4 invasions on 3 worlds where the Rebellion AI took this approach of the more the merrier. Fortunately for me they were established worlds, and became a crucible for my to destroy large numbers of enemy ground forces.

Korriban was probably the hardest, and hit more than once, as I'd recently swapped out the barracks for a Hypervelocity Gun to make battles above the world less intense, of course that means no infantry and no speeder bikes - if you're playing as the empire, those initial 4 speeder bikes are great to get rid of Rebel Torp Launchers as they land. Zip in, drop their Thermal Detonators as they're off loading, get to their rear and shoot the little droids. Bombs go boom, as do the rebel's artillery. But in this case, creating a bottle neck at the top end of the canyon that the invaders comes down with At-St's, Hover tanks and my own Art and rushing their line before their missiles got in range worked, even if with loss of life.

Carida was more fun. 4 AT-AT's, 6 Artillery walkers, 8 AT-STs, 7 Hover Tanks and some badly placed AT-AAs (seriously, thanks a lot for putting them at the far end of the Rancor valley!). A bit simple in strategy - move my forces over the river while using the local population to stall the enemy. I think they end kill count was 8 squads of T-4s and 8 squads of Torp Launchers.

 

Currently, the only world where I've played the game of throwing more fuel into the fire was Polus - where the planet's garrison was a mixture of T-2s, Air Speeders, and infantry tied in with the local populace. I hate Polus, the locale's weapons are a pain, freezing vehicles and infantry, by passing shields. That was met with a flotilla of Palpatine, 22 Storm Trooper units, some TIE Maulers and AT-AA's. I ended up winning, but not before getting creamed and loosing 6 or more Storm trooper Units, my Maulers and 2 units of AT-AAs.

I could have done with a Death Star then.

 

Right, so my point was ground forces often soak up more punishment, though it really depends on what you're packing. Every unit has their use, and way of being defeated - so you often need to plan before just rushing in. If you're the Empire, drop in a probe droid and maybe but Boba in orbit to get a look at what they have. For the Rebellion C3-P0 is the best. Placing him in orbit allows you to see space and ground units so you can build appropriately. For the Empire, depending on the number of units you can call in, the obvious is an AT-AT as they can march through pretty much anything except an over whelming number of plex soldiers. One of the greatest benefits of an AT-AT is it's ability to dispense Storm Troopers for free, so you can capture re-enforcement point and build pads - and don't forget build pads make excellent fall back points. Then add some Artillery, they slow down an AT-AT's advance (which, in this game, speed does matter), though gives you greater range (by about the length of an AT-AT) and highly effective anti-infantry weapon. The next unit should depend on what you're enemy have. If there are air speeders, you'll need AA. Lots of infantry - either a hero's like Vader, or some Maulers to run them over. If lots of armour, maybe Veers or another AT-AT or go for some mix up and throw in AT-STs for numbers or their Hover Tank (2-M?) which is excellent for fire support or flanking the enemy to find their artillery. If you have more units to bring in, don't just throw in heavy firepower. Heroes are good, but seeing they come in ones you can only assault along one path - not always the best route. Commanders are good, increasing the abilities of all units on the ground, just try to stop them from being killed.

In the end, the Empire is focused on brute force of armour, just mix it up a bit and don't be afraid to hold back an advance to repair or let the enemy come to you. Likewise, know when to advance or retreat. If the enemy has you ranged you'll either need to rush in and fix that, or pull back and regroup. For the Empire, having an AT-AT is perfect for an almost constant advance - they just suck at retreat.

 

For the Alliance, things can be a little more complicated. First and fore most you'll want infiltrators. Apart from dealing with enemy infantry quickly and easily, they can take out most other units with a single thermal detonator, or with 2-4 a building. For a lot of worlds, the Alliance will won't to raid it and weaken them earlier. Some worlds poorly defended (especially against the AI) can fall to 3 Infiltrator Units. But the main point is to hit the enemy before they're expecting it and aiming to inflict high or strategic damage while losing those units. Mixing up the raiding units is helpful. Air Speeders are great for harassing the enemy, and if they find a blind spot on the map where there aren't any build pads they can eliminate anything except AT-AAs. Of course, if they meet AA, they're gone. Art is useful, but needing to deploy can be a problem. If the world has a lot of armour, I find that Torp launchers get destroyed too easily in a raid.

As for the main force - the Alliance often has to play be the moment and take along a bit of everything. T-4's are good at holding off AT-STs or 2-Ms, but are more on par with these units than better. They're also weak against AT-ATs (der) and infantry and are really an area denial weapon. Plex troopers are great to kill vehicles, but are easily countered or stepped on. T-2's are .. well, don't pack much firepower, can't squish soldiers though are fast, hover over water and can actually absorb quiet a bit of punishment. Good to support infantry early on - especially if you can get the enemy to fire on it. Also effective at taking out Imperial art by rushing under their barrage range with a quick flank. Torp Launchers are the Rebels most powerful unit and are a must on most occasions, their weaknesses are a lack of armour and taking a long time to deploy and reload. Their droid buddies are useful to zip around the map to annoy and confuse the enemy or to use their scanning ability to call in air support or take advantage of the Torp's range. But, they're also very good at dealing with Palpatine or Vader. Air Speeders are good to harass the enemy or take out AT-ATs - also, I've found that you can use them to heavily damage an enemy base if you watch out for any AA turrets, it requires micromanaging. Infiltrators are useful, and in a lot of ways supersede regular infantry if you micromanage them and keep them at long range from other infantry.

 

Right, I officially went off track there.

[Evaders99]

Wow necro-post

 

When I was actually playing EaW, ground and space combat pretty much bored me. I played mostly on the galaxy and let the battles autoresolve.

I may bring it out again to play Imperial Assault II.

 

If you're looking for more Rebellion-style gameplay, try Sins of a Solar Empire. It's a blast.