Yuuzhan Vong Theoretical Question

[BadSamaritan]

D20? You mean, you will be building a PnP version of all of that?

 

YESSSSSS!!!!!!!!! I will finally have a reason to actually run a campaign, instead of screwing everyone elses up!!!

[Mad78]

I think you mean php BS

 

Are you actually making a proper RPG for it SM!?!

Awesome!

[DarthTofu]

*Grumbles some more about the lack of a decent library nearby so that he can read those books*

[Stellar_Magic]

Well I'll probably have some modifications of the D20 system just cause... parts of it don't work all to well in Rapora Wars. As for a PhP version, I'll see if I can assemble one, but that may be out of my league.

[AdmiralToguroAni]

Wouldnt a completed Death Star II eliminate whatever hope the Vong could have of doing much of anything? I was under the impression that if completed, the DS II would be invincible.

[Stellar_Magic]

Massed fleet attack on the DSII would be able to take it out, but with Extremely Heavy Casualties.

 

(Just think about how big the Fleets got in NJO, the Yuuzhan Vong fielded something on the order of 4,000 combat ships in the last batte.)

[DarthTex]

Stellar_Magic wrote:

 

... Just think about how big the Fleets got in NJO, the Yuuzhan Vong fielded something on the order of 4,000 combat ships in the last batte.)

 

 

But that was after conquering a good chunk of the galaxy and "growing" new ships. Were the worldships the only ships the Vong used in the interstellar travel? Did they have a fleet of ships "docked" with the worldship when they reached the target galaxy?

[Defender_16]

Yes they had some warships docked with the worldships already before they entered the galaxy.

 

http://www.starwars.jp/machine/image/worldship.jpg

If you look at the ends of the spiral arms you can see some dots connected by lines to the worldship. Those are warships using docking tendrils. It is not clear how many ships they had when the reached the galaxy. I would say that about 50% of their ships were grown in the galaxy on captured worlds. That's still alot of ships to bring with them but we do know that the Vong fought each other while in the void between galaxies.

 

EDIT: Multi-stage plan for assault on a DS II type space platform.

 

1st phase involves rendering the DS's shield inoperable.

Atmosphereic insertion of bio weapons such as those used at Ithor could cause serious harm to any ground based projectors. Insertion teams launching the weapon breach the planetary shields on the opposite side of the planet that the DS is on.

The bio weapon can eventually destroy the ground based projectors but this will take time. Perhaps days. The DS can leave orbit but then it lacks shields.

Another way to do it would be to use specially shaped Dovin Basal weapons to strip the DS of shields.

 

2nd phase is the beginning of attack on the station itself. Majority of Capital ships will stay out of range of the Super Laser and use their basals to create gravity wells. Starfighters, Corvettes and fast Frigates will be used in a large scale assault on the DS's escorting fleet.

Attepts will be made to draw Destroyers out to engage the larger Vong cruisers. (Imps will be unlikley to take the bait.) With the escort units sufficiently occupied specialised uits will begin assaults on the DS's surface. Blastboat analogs and skips will attept to concentrate fire on the DS laser emitter stations and on weapons emplacements along the equatorial trench.

 

3rd phase is the final assault on the Death Star. Cruisers will try to rush to the DS as quickily as possible from as many different directions as possible. One option is to cease interdiction long enough for select cruisers to microjump closer to the surface, ships remaining at range will then resume interdiction. 30 - 50% Cruiser losses are expected in this attack. After reaching the DS, the surviving force will clear safezones of turbolaser emplacements. Atleast half of the survivirs will take up positions inside the equatorial trench and blast deeper landing zones into the interior using the DS's outer hull to shield the landed ships from any attacks from Destroyers. Attack forces will then work to disable the superlaser allowing modified Carriers to more effectively deal with remaining escort ships. The heavier cruisers with then begin assaults into the DS interior through areas blasted by the cruisers. I believe the Voung would opt to disable the DS rather then destroying it completely. The hulk of the station could then be consumed by ship building creatures much like Sernpidal was. Scrap could be removed and used by Peace Brigaders.

 

This would be a very bloody operation no matter how well it worked. It would not be as costly as the invasion of Coruscant but certainly equal to the Battle of Borleias, though the plan does not plan for the endangerment of any worldships.

[AdmiralToguroAni]

I'll disagree on one part of D16's post, though I'll concede everything he said about the YV attacks because I've never read the NJO books. Basically, I believe the DS2's planetary shield was a temporary measure, meant to protect the DS2 while it was being created. The DS2, when finished, would likely have quite a powerful shield around it. If it didn't, then why would they try to take it to hostile planets? They don't rely on armor alone for their other capitals, so I figure they'd give that same protection to the DS itself.

 

Given that they have a shield, could phase 2 of the operation be feasible? If the shield is protecting the DS2, then they couldn't hope to attack the laser generator since it would be protected.

[Defender_16]

http://www.theforce.net/swtc/ds/

The Death Stars possessed deflector shields of immense power by comparison to those of capital starships, though much weaker than many ground-based deflector systems. The huge power demands of the superlaser and other key functions of the Death Stars prevented the implementation of comparably impressive deflectors.

 

*Whew* saved. I was already trying to find that out even before you posted. Thought I was going to have some trouble there for a second. The regular shields the the DS carries arround with itself are a bit less powerful than planetery grade shields.

 

http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/dvd/zs/rotj/ds2holo30.jpg

This buggerly thing above is the real trouble maker, once again impossible to get through. So the DS2 isn't defenseless going between planets but a ground based shield sure helps. lol

 

I drew up some numbers for a sutibally sized DS2 escort fleet and the Yuuzhan Vong attack fleet. I have to say, lack of shields on most of the TIE craft are going to be a major contributor to the Vong being able to pull off an attack.

EDIT: I just checked my numbers. My DS2 assault plan calls for 1/10th of the force used to assault Coruscant. (Which was roughly 10,000 ships.) The problem is I don't know weather those numbers were the numbers of cruisers involved or if it included Corvettes and Frigates.

 

Either way I think I need to start throwing Peace Brigaders at the problem. rofl

[Baron_Soontir_Fel]

Vong fighter pilot and commander planning attack on a Star Destroyer as it reverts from hyperspace.

"How do we hurt them worst?" Charat asked.

"Follow me in," Penzak said. "While they're launching. Don't engage the fighters; bait them so they follow us. The ship won't fire on us with the fighters in close proximity. We'll enter their launching bays and destroy the facilities there, then gut the ship from within." He looped arround, rising and angling in toward the ship's bely.

 

I always wanted to do that. Stupid X-wing Alliance where Star Destroyers can shoot through their own hull.

 

That's what Battlefront II is for.

[DarthTofu]

D16 mentioned how the Tie's lack of shields would contribute to quicker conquring, but I disagree. Let's not forget that TIE is an acronym: Twin Ion Engine. Thus when they got sucked into gravity vortex things the TIE parts would blow up, greatly weakening the Dovin Basals, right? Because, according to the Rogue and Wraith squadron books, when TIEs blow up they make quite a bang, and I think that a black hole would be more than sufficient to blow the TIE up.Quick question: If the VOng are creating black holes right next to their own ships, what keeps them from being sucked in, or time from slowing down

[Defender_16]

Hmm... The post I made last night on Dovin Basals didn't seem to go up.

If the VOng are creating black holes right next to their own ships, what keeps them from being sucked in, or time from slowing down

Dovin Basals control all gravity like functions aboard a vong ship. They're responsible for inertial compensation, artificial gravity, and propulsion. When grown into a ship, the ship is considered by the Basal to be part of its body. It is unlikley that it will intentionally harm itself with it's own defense mechanism. Since it controls gravity in it's area of influence, it is likley it can negate any adverse affects it might cause to the ship.

 

The only times where a Vong ship has been sucked into one of its own singularities was when there was an outside influence.

ie. Luke or Kyp Durron using the Force to grab one of the mini black holes and drag it over into the side of the ship. (Caution; Force users might want to take a nice long nap after doing something like this.)

 

As for time distortion I really don't know. Each singularity tends to be quite small and isn't kept arround any longer than necessary.

*Shrugs*

Ask LucasArts I'm sure they'll come up with some totally BS answer. lol

 

EDIT: Dovin Basals can also strip a target of it's shields. This was used through the NJO series to great effect. This can be countered by extending a vehicle's inertial compensation field to encompas the shields. Unfortunately this can also lead to the compensator being overloaded. By the mid point of the war the XJ3 had shield grab safties which would let the shields be stripped off instead of wrecking the compensator, and have new shields ready to go up in place in seconds. (This system fails after repeated use.)

Edited January 12, 2006 by Defender_16

[DarthTofu]

Yeah... Even if they screw with gravity on their side, there's still the whole "Time being slowed down" issue. Then again, there are TIE fighters making noise in space (A VACUME!) so let's just go with lucas Arts is talking out their arses again.

[Mitth_raw_nuruodo]

...releasing the agent red in 'The Unifying Force'...

This is correct, with the exception of 'Agent' being used in place of 'Alpha'. That was my fault, thanks for catching that SM. Like BS I thought something was wrong. I was basing what I wrote off of what I remembered reading 6+ months ago.

 

There's a problem with Agent Red being used by the Empire. Heck there's a major problem with all of the anti-Vong tech used in the NJO.

- Danni Qui

- Cilghal

- Jania Solo

D16, I have to disagree with you. Alpha Red wasn't developed by Danni, Cilghal, or Jaina. It was largely the Chiss that developed the virus. They [the Chiss] still would have encountered the Vong. They would have gotten examples of Vong Bio-tech. AR's development WASN'T predicated on the discoveries made at Eclipse Station. I'm not saying that they weren't useful, just that they weren't neccesary.

 

BS, I agree with you about the Eclipse. I would build something that big just for the demoralizing effect it would have on the enemy. The guns, shields, and hull are all just bonuses as far as I'm concerned.

 

Wouldnt a completed Death Star II eliminate whatever hope the Vong could have of doing much of anything? I was under the impression that if completed, the DS II would be invincible.

NOTHING in SW is indestructable. Even the Sun Crusher suffered severe damage when hit w/ the Death Star Prototype's Superlaser. It would've been POSSIBLE to destroy DS2 from the outside, but as many have already said, losses would've been severe.

 

Yeah... Even if they screw with gravity on their side, there's still the whole "Time being slowed down" issue. Then again, there are TIE fighters making noise in space (A VACUME!) so let's just go with lucas Arts is talking out their arses again.

Which would you prefer Tofu, a scientifically accurate movie where ships in space make no noise, or a movie where you get to hear the engines and the explosions in space?

[DarthTofu]

I like scientifically accurate movies. Tom Clancy=Hells yeah. Star Wars= turn off brain.

[BadSamaritan]

BS, I agree with you about the Eclipse. I would build something that big just for the demoralizing effect it would have on the enemy. The guns, shields, and hull are all just bonuses as far as I'm concerned.

 

I would think seeing something the size of that vessel appear in front of you would go a few steps beyong demoralizing. Especially when it blasts a ship from about 50 kilomters away, when you are well beyond firing range.

 

And with an Eclipse, worldships would be a non-issue, as en Eclipse would crack one like an egg.

[Defender_16]

And with an Eclipse, worldships would be a non-issue, as en Eclipse would crack one like an egg.

 

Worldships are considered non-combat craft. They do have their own weapons and defenses but it is geared toward transport and support for large fleet elements and missions. The worldships also varry in size. teh smallest ones being about 10km in diameter and the largest one to enter the galaxy (the one at Myrkr) was about 75km in diameter. From descriptions I would guess that the one lost at Borleias would be between 40 and 60km in diameter.

 

I would think seeing something the size of that vessel appear in front of you would go a few steps beyong demoralizing.

The arrival of the Lusankya in the midst of a Vong fleet group certainly had that kind of effect on the fleet commander before he died.

 

(Aaron Allston is very cerful not to mention what the actual size of the SSD Lusankya is over the course of the two novels. He also does not mention the number of squadrons aboard ship either, as that would give away the size type he was using. It's likley he was keeping an eye on the ongoing debates over ship size before writing the two books. )

[Mitth_raw_nuruodo]

(Aaron Allston is very cerful not to mention what the actual size of the SSD Lusankya is over the course of the two novels. He also does not mention the number of squadrons aboard ship either, as that would give away the size type he was using. It's likley he was keeping an eye on the ongoing debates over ship size before writing the two books. )

That shouldn't matter. In one of the books (forgive me for I can't remember which one) that the first 2 SSD's were built simultaneously and were both given the name Executor. One became Vader's flagship. The other disappeared. That second one was renamed Lusankya, burried on Coruscant and given to Issard. (Not sure of the order of those last 2.)

[Defender_16]

Unfortunately it does matter becaus the book that mentions that is one of the X-Wing books by Micheal A. Stackpole. In it he does state the size of the two ships as 8km with 12 fighter squadrons. Lusankya as it was captured in the battle for Thyfera was... Y'know, we're getting off topic here.

 

Regardless of version, size, or type, SSD's are a demoralizing sight which could be used to effect against the Vong. The Eclipse type, which we all know is a giant hulking behemoth, would be idealy suited for mowing down larger numbers. (Even without it's super laser.)

 

Moving on...

 

The Peace Brigade. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_Brigade

 

formed by sentients who thought that the New Republic was being apathetic and not reacting properly to the threat of the Yuuzhan Vong. They presumed that the Yuuzhan Vong would win the war, so they thought it best to become their allies against the Jedi.

 

In the NJO the Brigade is made up of pirates, mercenaries, defectors, deserters, and other corrupt people within the governemnt. Most people who join are looking out for #1. Others are doing it because they hate Jedi.

 

In an Empire specific Timeline you have lots of people joining because they hate the Imps, and this is the best chance they can get to hurt them. You have Imperial officers that never had the opportunity to defect to the Rebellion. You have Rebels that have mannaged to stay alive this long and know how to fight and command effectively. Star Destroyers are numerous and could be captured by any of a hundred means. Polititions that want their own little kingdoms away from the Empire.

The entire Corporate Sector Authority allied with the Brigade in the NJO.

 

All of these guys combined are capable of being quite dangerous to the Empire when given the opportunity of the Yuuzhan Vong threat.

 

EDIT: Vehicles most likley to be commonly available to the Peace Brigade in this time line.

 

A-Wing (You can build one in your garage but are hard to maintain.)

Authority IRD (CSA would be practically giving these away.)

TIE-Clutch (Favourite of pirates and mercenaries.)

TIE-Interceptor (Empire has tons of them, everywhere)

X-Wing (Outdated but still effective, limited numbers)

TIE-Bomber (Modified with Shields and/or Hyperdrive)

Z-95 (Modified versions in almost any form, some using parts from newer X-wings.)

 

Modified and armed Medium and light transports.

 

Marauder Corvettes

VSD (All 1st and 2nd gen Victory Destroyers would be retired by this time, 'easy' to steal from scrapyards.)

Katana Dreadnaught (Does Thrawn need the Katana fleet if the Empire is still ruling?)

[DarthTofu]

That brings up an interesting notion- Karde never had a buyer for the fleet and it was only when Thrawn needed it that he chose to search for it. Do you think it would have been found or that it would still be hidden away to be usable when needed?

[Defender_16]

Garm Bel Iblis would still have needed the ships and he would have become the leader of the Rebellion eventually. Given his ability to stay alive while fighting Pellaeon and Thrawn unknown to the rest of the rebellion, I'm sure he could have kept things going.

 

I'm fairly certain that he would have rebuilt the Rebel fleet to pre-Endor levels or larger by the time of the Yuuzhan Vong invasion. Hmm... with Pash Cracken or Tycho Celchu in charge of his starfighter forces.

 

The good General now has a dilemma when the Vong invasion begins. Does he side with the Vong and the Peace Brigade, or stay neutral but use the destraction to hit the Empire while he can.

[DarthTofu]

I'd go with blow the crap out of anything Vong he can find. The Imp. remenant under Pallaeon joins Kre'fey in the battle of Ithor, I don't see why Iblis wouuldn't do the same... Unless the Imps tried to kill him... Come to think of it, the Vong wouldn't be discovered until late what with Kyp's lach of pirate hunting.

[Defender_16]

In 'Tales from the New Republic' (Which my copy has gone into hiding right now) one of the first stories in the book is that of then Senator Garm Bel Iblis.

*Spoilers*

In the opening scene an auditorium in which Iblis was about to give a speach in -proclaiming Palpatine's coruption- is blown up by a bomb. His family is killed but he escapes with a Rebel agent that had been sent by Mon Mothma and Bail Organa. (He was outside the building when it exploded.) He used to opportunity to fake his death and went undercover helping the Rebellion. Eventually he built up his own resistance group and aquired some Katana Dreadnaughts from a man who knew the location of the Katana fleet and was selling off the ships one at a time.

 

(In the Thrawn Trilogy this man is captured by the imps who offer him a whole wack-load of money and let him go after they find the ships. )

 

In the NJO series Pallaeon and Kre'fey are able to work together because the Empire and New Republic have been enjoying a cease fire of the past 5 years. The old war ended so they are able to atleast descuss working on the same page.

 

In a Pro-Empire time line the Rebellion doesn't end. It keeps getting driven further into hiding because the Empire under Palpatine will never ever accept any rebel presence.

 

NO OPPOSITION TO PALPATINE'S WILL MUST EVER EXIST!! LONG LIVE THE EMPIRE!!!

*Cough*

*Ahem*

 

Come to think of it, the Vong wouldn't be discovered until late what with Kyp's lach of pirate hunting.

That has to do with my three month estimate on how long the Vong can conceal their invasion once they really start beating down planets. After three months theres no way they can keep it secret.

[Defender_16]

Anyone have any ideas for keeping the Yuuzhan Vong invasion going past the three month mark? Every time I go over it in my head the invasion nearly gets to about Dathomir then about three oversector fleets come in and pwn the Vong with superior numbers.

 

That early in the invasion the Vong don't have the numbers to take those kind of fleets head on. Thoughts?