Battle for Coruscant - Imperial NJO era

[Defender_16]

*Spoilers for those who havent read the NJO books yet*

 

I was reading Star By Star again and a thought popped into my head when I reached the Battle of Coruscant.

 

"How would the battle have gone if the Vong were fighting the Imperials?"

 

First I'll put a basic list of the NR fleets and defenses that started at the battle.

 

Fleet group 3 - Lead by Wedge Antillies. Assisted by Jedi Strike Wing

Fleet group 2 - Lead by Garm Bel Iblis

Fleet group 1 - Lead by Traest Kre'fey

 

Orbital Mine Shell (Several kilometers thick)

 

Golan & Balmorran Defense Platforms

 

Planetary Shields

Ground based Turblasers ( 1 per 2 square kilometer?)

Ground based Laser Cannon

V-wing Squadrons

-Sien Sovv - Head of NR Military

-General Reikeen - Planetary defense

 

Each Fleet group had atleast 30 Star Destroyers apiece with hundreds of smaller light cruisers, Frigates, and Corvettes.

 

The Yuuzhan Vong fleet, not only being extremly large. Also has hundreds of captured refugee ships which are being used as shields for their fleet. Kre'fey chose to not open fire with the Civillian ships in the way but Iblis disobeyed orders and continued anyways.

With what would have been an effective Hammer and Anvil strike ruined, Antillies is forced to try and keep up from behind.

Eventually the battle carries on into Coruscants orbit and the whole thing becomes an even bigger mess.

 

 

How would the Empire have handled this situation were the Vong to get this far into the galaxy?

 

Post what you think the Empire would bring to bear in terms of fleet sizes and numbers and who you think would be commanding what. (Even who you think would be in charge of the Empire.)

I'm going to hold off on posting mine for a little while until I get some last things straightened out in my character arrangement.

 

 

EDIT: I just remembered something else. While the Imperials have the benefit of many additional Hyperspace routes arround the core, the invasion of Reecee could have been pulled off just as (or more) effectively against an Imperial force.

 

Also the battlefleet in the black bantha nebula was only found out about because the Errant Venture stumbled into taskforce that was guarding one of the hyperspace lanes to it when headed to Eclipse.

While Byss isn't too far away from eclipse reletively speaking, the chances of an Imperial patrol hapening into that area are slim.

 

So because of this there could be a full two pronged attack against Coruscant not just the one that the NR faced.

Edited September 19, 2005 by Defender_16

[Mad78]

The Empire wouldn't have hesitated as to the civilian ships, they would have blasted them.

They would have also obeyed orders perfectly and hence forth any grand admiral (imagine Thrawn) would have been capable of coordinating his ships perfectly.

In short i must admit i think the empire would have made a better job out of it and by all means stopped the Vongs from gaining the orbit.

[DarthTofu]

I think the Empire would have kicked ass rather sevierly. Assuming that Palpy and Vader are still there, the two could use the shadow bomb method in a rediculously effective manner, hurling them from the base of Coruscant. Also, palpy and Vader could have used a C'abaoth style link to bring forces directly into the middle of the Yuzhan Vong craft (On the sides that the Dovin Basals weren't working on). Also, if Grand Admiral 50-gillion interdictor-cruisers-Thrawn were there, the Dovin Basals would have a had a ridiculously hard time working on it. Also, if the Death Stars were still around... All I can say is bye-bye Grand class cruisers. Oh, yes, and I forgot to mention- the Empire would also have somewheer around six or seven SSDs to help fight as well. This is all assuming that the Rebels never came in and never destroyed anything of the Empire's

[DarthTex]

The Empire wouldn't have let the Vong ever get close to Coruscant. They would've wiped them out early in the invasion and would have "planted" a Death Star on the invasion route. Every worldship that arrived would have about 1 day (tops) to live. Then it would time for the infamous ignition sequence and BOOM! No more worldship.

 

But getting back to your original hypothesis. I agree with MAD, the civilian ships would just be turbolaser fodder for pre-battle target practice . I would say that Palpy is alive and well , Vader is on the Executor with several hundred ISD's at his beck and call , Thrawn and Pellaeon also in command of fleets (with SSD's) . Interdictors would be set up to "pull" parts of the Vong fleet out of hyperspace, with ISD's set up for a nasty crossfire. The Death Star II (and maybe others? ) would be orbitting Coruscant waiting for the main attack force. The Vong wouldn't have lasted too long before retreating .

[LordCaptain]

Well, of course the Vong would have been erradicated

 

Even Nom Anor said that the gods favored the Vong by destroying the Empire before they got there because they would have lost in the very first battles. The Rebels did their gods a service!

 

Palpatine's battle meditation would have turned the battle in the first place. With Vader commanding the Executor and all the ISD IIIs around, it would have been no contest.

[Krytos]

Ok, my consensus is that the Vong would have been just as effective against the Empire as they were against the NR/GFFA.

Let's not forget that the Vong were in the galaxy for a long, long time studying their targets and learning how to beat them. In the novels, we see an enemy better tuned to fighting the New Republic and their tactics - though they could have easily switched tactics for a fight against the Empire. The Vong already proved that their society is more than capable than adjusting for any form of conflict.

It's only assumed that the Empire would win because of their brute force - yet that proved to be their failing against the Rebellion.

 

Some facts that I'd like to bring up are to do with the Vong's own use of "super weapons". They're capable of terra-forming planets in a matter of days, with disastrous effect.

They can kill all living creatures on a planet with a super bacteria. And if the need arrised, they can meet the challenge.

Swarn and kamikaze strikes are already common in the Vong lines, which prove fatal against concentrated capitol ships. I could see a vong fleet build up of several capital ships bombarding Imperials at long range whilst swarms of carriers released Coral Skippers to release havoc against their enemy, as well as developing new weapons better suited to the task, such as actual Bomber, manoeuvrable capitals that use powerful dovan basils to take down shields of capitals etc. etc. etc.

 

The Rebellion already showed the weaknesses with the Empire, and the Vong could easily exploit them. Whilst the Vong had a strong tendency to sacrifice the population of a planet, they also enslaved them or in the case of the Peace Brigade gained allies.

And we also know that the Empire as a weak hold on the Outer Rim - simular to the problem the New Republic had in fighting the Vong so far away from their major worlds. However, unlike the NR who kept their fleets around the core because of the Senate fearing that their important worlds would fall, the Empire would also have to deal with more hostilities in these weakly controlled regions from pirates and rebel groups (and assuming the Rebel Alliance was still in existence, that would undoubtedly be the region of their choice) making it very, very hard to attempt to hold - and in the end, there's a very small chance that they could actually hold the Outer Rim region.

With the galaxy already infiltrated by the Vong by characters such as the Nom Anor, planets could easily be swayed to join against the Vong and fight their oppressors - which they did to the New Republic as well, though it would have a far greater effect with the Empire. Infiltrate any Death Stars etc.

So, I'd think that the Vong would be able to get to Coruscant with a lot of planets in their wake willingly joining in the fight - adding unknown numbers to the fight as well as staging bases.

 

So, to the actual battle. We know that the Vong aren't invincible and can be defeated be shear firepower - such as at Borleias with the Lusankya. However, that only proved useful once.

The Vong adapt quickly to battles, and considering that Empire would have been using excessive firepower throughout their campaign, and the flaws to these tactics would have been revealed before this major battle.

So, first off the Vong wouldn't have used refugee ships against the Empire - the only reason they used them earlier was because the New Republic showed them that they were willing to fight to save the civilians - the Empire would have proven that they wouldn't bother giving up a strategic position in order to save civilians. Instead, replace those ships with Rebel style warships and fighters backing up the Vong.

So, we can also assume that the Empire would have gathered as much of their fleets as they could and might even hold simular numbers to the Vong.

At the same time we know that the Vong could muster their own super weapons. On Serpindal the Vong used a massive Dovan Basil to bring down the moon - and knew they would loose it. So, surely they could breed some more for this battle - the question is how much could they stop? Could one basil stop a Death Star laser? Doubtful. Could a larger one, or multiple basils work? Probably - though would be a prime target for the enemy.

As for destroying a a Death Star - well, we'll assume that there isn't a weakness that can be exploited like in the movies. However, the Vong do have those massive creatures used to destroy space stations (one of which could rip up huge chunks of the DS and perhaps cripple required components on the DS), mixed with some new species of grutchins to eat deep into and infiltrators on board the space stations (which will undoubtedly be true - I could imagine a high concentration of Vong infiltrators within the ranks of the Empire as the Vong can mimic humans quiet well. Not too mention, I could see any planetary shields or planet based shields for the death star infiltrated as well and being rendered ineffective - especially without units capable of detecting the Vong through their mask thingies). All in all, I think that a Death Star could be disabled in, or possibly before battle - significantly weakening the Empire.

Which leaves it down to the fleets duke-ing it out with high losses on both sides.

It's hard to say who would win the battle, as both sides would be fighting to the death to get the planet and have tactics to defeat the other. However, I'd think that the Empire's over use of large capitals would become their short fall again with the Vong's Coral Skippers and Blast Bolders taking suicide runs on key Imperial ships breaking their ranks. All in all, I'd be weighted towards the Vong and their allies to win the space battle.

 

Now, comes phase two - the fight for Coruscant on the ground. Here, I'd be willing to bet the Vong win out due to having the planet surrounded with ships, but not without being forced to retreat off planet due to incredibly high losses and simply blasting most Imperial positions to slag. I could see the Empire employing some ruthless tactics, like having ships sacrifice themselves to bombard the planet and Vong forces that just landed as well as many other tactics that would kill civilians in order to damage the Vong.

Not to mention Vader letting loose on the Vong.

 

But in the end, my money would over all be on the Vong. For the Empire to win, after the battle they would need would need to convince the Vong’s allies to join them. Of course, I’d imagine that the Empire would have several other strong hold, military worlds to strike from. As well as Thrawn to hold his own and continuously assault the Vong.

The over all victor would be difficult to say. The NR/GFFA needed the Remnant’s, Chiss’ and Jedi’s help to win – I’d assume that the Empire would need a simular alliance to beat the ever resourceful, never-ending Vong.

[Grand_Admiral_Thrawn]

When comparing the Empire to the Rebellion, it is important to keep in mind the number of ships each had. If we are speculating that the Empire won the Battle of Endor, and thus the Emperor is still in power, the Imperials would have had an unimaginable number of ships at their disposal. Though it pains me to start talking about the Dark Empire series, I think it is till (unfortunately) somewhat relevant. So, the Empire would have had the majority of their ships in the Deep Core. Stop and think about that. We know how massive the Imperial Star Fleet was in the galaxy at large, so imagine of that was only a small fraction of their ships, with all of the really heavy ships being reserved for the Inner and Deep Core systems!

 

When we get to Endor there are two fleets (yes, we all know this). However, we see the Rebel fleet and an Imperial Fleet. The Rebels threw every thing they had at the Empire on that day, whereas the Empire simply placed a fleet there. In Mon Mothma's own words, the Imperial star fleet was "scattered across the galaxy". Unfortunately for the New Republic, their position militarily had not improved by the time the Vong came. They had a relatively small fleet loaded with many recruits as the veterans of the Civil War retired.

 

So, let's turn to the Empire. Running under the assumption that they won at Endor, the Empire still has the Executor, the second Death Star, a whole host of experienced officers, the best the Imperial Navy has to offer, as well as the Emperor and his lackey Darth Vader. We will have to assume that Vader allowed the Emperor to kill Luke, and that Han and Leia were eventually killed or captured. The whole of the Rebel fleet would have been decimated as the Imperial fleet closed in around them. What does this leave us with? An Empire facing a decapitated foe that has only small guerrilla groups spread thinly across the galaxy.

 

Now, let's examine what would have happened in the years to come. The Ssi-Ruuvi would have attacked Balmora shortly after Endor. The Empire would have sent a fleet to deal with the threat. Though the Imperials would take heavy losses, after their inevitable victory they would have gained the entechment technology the Ssi-Ruuk use. In the years to come this would be useful in enslaving alien races that resist the might of the Empire. Species like the Wookies, Bothans and Mon Calamari would be the first to feel the wrath of the Empire, having millions of their people entrenched and used as a new, inexpensive fighting force.

 

After years in the Outer Rim Thrawn would return. Because his "exile" was really fictional he would be folded back into the inner workings of the Imperial Navy, expanding it's strategies and ship technology. In addition to Thrawn there would be the Other Grand Admirals training the next generation of leaders in the Imperial Armed Forces. The Navy's already stringent expectations would heighten the quality of it's men. The Empire of the Hand would also introduce Chiss pilots and warriors to the Empire.

 

After years of military expansion, as well as fighting with the remnant of the Rebellion, the Emperor is finally ruler of the known galaxy. The Noghri have been used to hunt down and exterminate the remaining Rebel cells fighting in the Rim worlds, and the Chiss have been assimilated by the Empire. The war the Chiss have been waging in the Unknown Regions is reinforced by elements of the Empire. The Black Fleet Crisis is averted when the Empire presumptively crushes opposition, and the Hapans are invaded, resulting in the end of their Monarchy. The Empire is installed as the first Emperor of the Hapan Hegemony.

 

During this time the Emperor and Vader have been expanding the number of Sith in the Galaxy. In an attempt to restore the old order, a set of rules governing the Sith are established. These rules eliminate the assassination of a Sith's master. instead a codified set of laws similar to the Jedi Code bring stability to the sith. The Emperor will not fall to the failings of those before him. The number of skilled Force users is still small, to avoid a new rebellion. Some culling is needed to keep idealists from penetrating the Sith academies.

 

Research at the Maw Installation continues, giving the Empire access to new super weapons. Two more Death Stars are constructed, and the Sun Crusher, though never official acknowledged, becomes a valuable tool in the quelling of uprisings. Advances in turbolasers and shielding is made, and hyperdrives become more accurate and reliable.

 

Finally, the Vong arrive only to find that their scouting party has alerted the Empire to their arrival. As the Worldships arrive from their long journey they are immediately attacked. Because of the number of Imperial ships available, and the number of Death Stars, the Vong are outnumbered 3:1. it is by no means a short battle, and for a number of years the Vong are able to hold five sectors in the Outer Rim before being totally eradicated by the Empire. Because Vergere is also killed, knowledge of Zenoma Sekot is kept hidden, though the Emperor keeps a small team of researchers on the subject.

 

Ok, so that's how I imagine things would work based on the rise of the Empire, and the time frame we're working with. I don't think the Vong would have stood a chance against a military government.

[BadSamaritan]

My money would be on the empire.

 

Granted, I do not doubt for one second that the Empire would have stomped the Vong at the Rim of the galaxy. They would have crushed them with overwhelming firepower and (Assuming Thrawn was in command) tactical brilliance.

 

If the vong did get to Coruscant, you could expect hundreds of Star Destroters of all makes and sizes, thousands of supporst ships, perhaps a DS or two, and god knows whatever else the Empire would put there. Drop Thrawn in charge, and what do you get? Dead vong, thats what.

[DarthTofu]

Everyone (including myself) mentioned Thrawn, but we all forget something- Thrawn learned from his opponent's rt and culture. After what happened to Elegos, we know that it is not pheasable for him to have learned their culture and survived. So he would have to go with the culture from the people who's language the Vong's is quite similar to, which would be absolutely no help. I think Thrawn is over-valued, though at the same time, we know that Interdictor Cruisers can create gravity anamolies to cripple the shielding abilities of moving ships, or slam them into eachother, which would be very effective when picking targets with a Death Star, assuming that billions of Dovin Basals are on board, or something. With this sudden revelation, the fight would be much closer, though I still give sheer numbers to the Empire... Gotta wonder what would happen if Dovin Basals just went arround creating massive black holes, though...

[Grand_Admiral_Thrawn]

Actually, what happened to Elegos is exactly what Thrawn would have needed. Really, the Vong seem as though they have no form of art. It simply wouldn't fit into their culture. It would be a waste of time in their view. From that Thrawn could gain much insight into the mind of the Vong. They seem to operate under an overly-ridgid system. If you can't "invent" new technology, you probably can't come up with a new strategy. They would be an ill-suited race for unconventional attacks and strategies.

[DarthTofu]

Ah, but you forget- the Yuzhan Vong have a complex structure of gods and religion. Surely this would have a substantial influence in the way that they think? Also, they do have art in the form of statues.

[Grand_Admiral_Thrawn]

It is their religion that hinders them. It lays out a strict path that they can follow, and deviating from it is not tollerated. Their strategy is always very simple: deploy skips, then batter the enemy to death. There is no fine maneuvering, not tactical thinking. They clearly are limited when it comes to inventive thinking.

[Defender_16]

I hail both of you Grand_Admiral_Thrawn and Krytos for truly amazing insights into how things ould have progressed.

 

Right now I'm working on my own theory that will maximize the length and destructiveness of the war. (After all this is "Star Wars. lol)

 

But both of you brought up good points that changed my mind on different things I had been planning on.

Keep up the debating!

 

EDIT:

(....blah religion blah...) Their strategy is always very simple: deploy skips, then batter the enemy to death. There is no fine maneuvering, not tactical thinking. They clearly are limited when it comes to inventive thinking.

 

I draw your attention to this: Borleias

 

'The infidels had arranged their orbital defenses in three layers, witht he heavy platforms on the exterior, the smaller fast-targeting platforms on the interior, and a dense shell of space mines. '

 

'...he(Tsavong Lah) expected the supreme commander to argue for an insertion assault to lay dovin basal gravity traps in the inner ring of defense platforms. Costly as the tactic was, it would quickily clear their way to the planet by pulling the minefield down into the inner ring of orbital platforms. '

 

(...)

'They had sent three assault divisions to install a giant dovin basal on Borleias's dark moon. Instead of crashing the satelite into its planet as the Praetorite Vong had done on Sernpidal, however, the dovin basal would be used to sweep the planetary defenses out of position. '

-From Star By Star

 

The Vong arnt incapable of good tactics, they just need to have planed ahead when they use them.

[Paul]

As far as I am concerned the Vong don't exist anyway.- Grand Moff Conway

[DarthTofu]

I was going to make a point like that... Eventually The Vong have their own tactical geniuses, and Shimmera prooves that at times hersay can be accepted, such as with our friend Nem Yim in that one duology... By that one guy whow asn't Michael A. Stackpole and used Corran as a main character and had a remarkably similar writing style. Still gotta read the rest of those books- why won't my library leave Dark Journey on the shelf?!?!?!?

 

So, Connaway, is Chewie like, on vacation, or something?

[DarthTex]

Grand_Admiral_Thrawn wrote:

 

... the Vong. They seem to operate under an overly-ridgid system.

 

Defender_16 wrote:

 

The Vong arnt incapable of good tactics, they just need to have planed ahead when they use them.

 

 

While both maybe true, GAT has identified their weakness. The NR exploited this at Ebaq 9, when they set their trap for the Vong (and they fell for it, with a couple of twists). The Vong are like a cross between Samurai and Klingon warriors: lots of BS about glorious battle, honor and dying in combat. Make them believe they are dying for the greater glory of the Vong gods and all good thinking goes down the crapper. This tactic was even used in the second book (I forget the title) by Corran Horn on Ithor. They loaded up a defensive position with loads of droids, and had it booby-trapped. The Vong reptoid slave/warriors passed up fighting "people" for their chance to destroy TECHNOLOGY. The Vong leader figured it out, but the troops were far too crazed to listen to a command to ... retreat? So, they all went BOOM! This makes them predictable, and I'm sure the Vong leaders knew they were predictable, but all of this honor and glory BS makes those who are cautious look like cowards. The Vong were good at planning long term strategies and moving pieces into place for battle, but on the tactical side they couldn't adapt and understand quick enough (although if they did, there would be questions about NOT letting warriors die for their gods).

[Krytos]

Grand_Admiral_Thrawn wrote:

\While both maybe true, GAT has identified their weakness. The NR exploited this at Ebaq 9, when they set their trap for the Vong (and they fell for it, with a couple of twists). The Vong are like a cross between Samurai and Klingon warriors: lots of BS about glorious battle, honor and dying in combat. Make them believe they are dying for the greater glory of the Vong gods and all good thinking goes down the crapper. This tactic was even used in the second book (I forget the title) by Corran Horn on Ithor. They loaded up a defensive position with loads of droids, and had it booby-trapped. The Vong reptoid slave/warriors passed up fighting "people" for their chance to destroy TECHNOLOGY. The Vong leader figured it out, but the troops were far too crazed to listen to a command to ... retreat? So, they all went BOOM! This makes them predictable, and I'm sure the Vong leaders knew they were predictable, but all of this honor and glory BS makes those who are cautious look like cowards. The Vong were good at planning long term strategies and moving pieces into place for battle, but on the tactical side they couldn't adapt and understand quick enough (although if they did, there would be questions about NOT letting warriors die for their gods).

 

True, but on both accounts the Vong learnt and weren't lead into the same mistakes twice. While technology worked as bait still agaisnt the Vong, they tightened their reigns on their troops and stopped it leading to defeat.

As for the ambush at Ebaq 9, the Vong's reluctance to retreat wasn't well seen here. They had brought in a massive fleet to attack what was thought to be the last leaders of the Republic - a prize worth sacrificing a lot for anyway as it would have crippled the NR beyond repair.

When they were eventually confronted by the full force of the NR, the Warmaster eventually called for a retreat (little did he know that due to the area they were fighting in, the NR had set up a massive mine field at their jump point).

Those vessels that remained didn't just roll over, they fought to the death and took a lot of NR vessels with them - especially with their kamakaze strikes.

So there "religious" zelous was both a benifit and disadvantage to the Vong.

 

Also, there were several strong examples of Vong leaders who were far more militarised. The War masters father (forget is name, actually most of the Vong's names ) who taught other Vong's how to fight/lead, the next warmaster, the Vong leader on Yselia and others.

One of the reasons the Vong were such a potent enemy, and as shown and stated in many novels, was there ability to change to new situations. New tactics, manouvres and technology worked once against the Vong before they were able to defeat it.

But the same went for the NR, which is why they were able to survive even with the hindering of the goverment as well as against much larger numbers.

Whilst the Empire would have had greater numbers, they were much slower to adapt to new situations - with Thrawn and some others being an exception. However, they were all overshadowed in some way. Which would have been one of their greatest down falls in a battle against the Vong.

 

 

Ok, time to play devil's advocate :

They clearly are limited when it comes to inventive thinking.

I think that only shows us that the writters were limited when it comes to inventive thinking.

If you look at all the battles in the novels, they rarely got into talking about how the fleets manouvred - they just fired on each other.

Yet, there's also comments about Kre'Fey being a brilliant tactician - as Elegos said, something to the effect of, when talknig to his captors: "Brilliant, but not in the same way as Thrawn" etc, etc.

It was just the way the novels were written.

 

When we get to Endor there are two fleets (yes, we all know this). However, we see the Rebel fleet and an Imperial Fleet. The Rebels threw every thing they had at the Empire on that day, whereas the Empire simply placed a fleet there.

Ok, totally agree except we know that there was a bigger Rebel fleet gathering at Sullust that was being used as a distraction.

Also, if the Rebel fleet were lost at Endor, there was this other fleet as well as unknown vessels not mentioned and the main players of the Rebellion were still alive like Mon Mathma - so we can speculate that the Rebel Alliance would have kept fighting and more Imperials would have defected over time.

 

So, let's turn to the Empire. Running under the assumption that they won at Endor, the Empire still has the Executor, the second Death Star, a whole host of experienced officers, the best the Imperial Navy has to offer, as well as the Emperor and his lackey Darth Vader. We will have to assume that Vader allowed the Emperor to kill Luke, and that Han and Leia were eventually killed or captured. The whole of the Rebel fleet would have been decimated as the Imperial fleet closed in around them. What does this leave us with? An Empire facing a decapitated foe that has only small guerrilla groups spread thinly across the galaxy

 

To true, the Rebel Alliance would have been forced into hidding for along time and more or less disappear after the battle of Endor until it would re-emerge. We know most beings in the galazy weren't the happiest with the Empire and a lot would join fight still - which was strongly shown after the Emperor died. So, I'd see the Rebel Alliance as a threat still.

 

the veterans of the Civil War retired

But how would the Empire fare differently? No more wars to fight, they'd control most of the galaxy, and most of their veteran commanders and fighters would have retired long ago - but unlike the NR who only stopped the war with the Empire several years earlier, the Empire would asummably only be contending with small pockets of reisistance.

 

Now, let's examine what would have happened in the years to come. The Ssi-Ruuvi would have attacked Balmora shortly after Endor. The Empire would have sent a fleet to deal with the threat. Though the Imperials would take heavy losses, after their inevitable victory they would have gained the entechment technology the Ssi-Ruuk use. In the years to come this would be useful in enslaving alien races that resist the might of the Empire. Species like the Wookies, Bothans and Mon Calamari would be the first to feel the wrath of the Empire, having millions of their people entrenched and used as a new, inexpensive fighting force.

 

I'd see the Empire whooping the Ssi-ruuk at Bakura (not Balmora, gotto love all the simular names ), and leaving a force their to fight the Srr-Ruuvi until they find their home world and make them extinct. As for taking that technology- I doubt the Empire could have gotten their hands on it before the Ssi-ruuk destroyed it. I doubt they would let the Empire get near it, being that prized a weapon.

I'd be surprised if the Empire would have used any other species as slaves in battle, but it's possilbe. Alos, they had already enslaved a lot of the races in the galaxy like the Wookies and Mon Calamari people.

 

After years in the Outer Rim Thrawn would return. Because his "exile" was really fictional he would be folded back into the inner workings of the Imperial Navy, expanding it's strategies and ship technology. In addition to Thrawn there would be the Other Grand Admirals training the next generation of leaders in the Imperial Armed Forces. The Navy's already stringent expectations would heighten the quality of it's men. The Empire of the Hand would also introduce Chiss pilots and warriors to the Empire.

 

This I strongly doubt. Thrawn was sent to the Unknown Regions as punishment for ticking off the Emporer (who is not as forgiving as Vader ). Not to mention, if (or should I say when) Palpatine would find out about the Hand of Thrawn . . . I'm not sure if he'd be too happy about the instalation and The Empire of the Hand would unfortunatley never exist.

I'd consider Thrawn more or less out of the picture until a threat like the Vong came into existance - and I doubt Palpatine would let him retire or get to far out of reach by keeping strong control over supplies as well as having his own spies checking up on someone as dangerous as Thrawn. Even when he comes back, how much he'll be allowed to help is unknown.

 

After years of military expansion, as well as fighting with the remnant of the Rebellion, the Emperor is finally ruler of the known galaxy. The Noghri have been used to hunt down and exterminate the remaining Rebel cells fighting in the Rim worlds, and the Chiss have been assimilated by the Empire. The war the Chiss have been waging in the Unknown Regions is reinforced by elements of the Empire. The Black Fleet Crisis is averted when the Empire presumptively crushes opposition, and the Hapans are invaded, resulting in the end of their Monarchy. The Empire is installed as the first Emperor of the Hapan Hegemony.

 

I agree that the Empire would continue hunting down the Rebellion as well as continue to take over most of the known galaxy (not so sure about the areas in the Outer Rim, and I'd see the Empire trying to make their way into Unknown Regions which would spread the Empire thinner - even if they have an incredibly large number of ships). And I'd also give them a 90% change of breaking up the Alliance - killing off the Rebellion in general would be impossible.

I dont see the Chiss being assimulated by the Empire - and if they were it would be by force, creating a new war (a war that would either end quickly by the Empire throwing their full weight into it before the Chiss know what's happening. Or a very, very long war) for the Empire at least. Which would in turn make Thrawn an enemy of the Empire (my assumption here, I'll let either GAT or SM correct me as they know the character far better than me).

The Black fleet crisis would never occur, and I'd think that there'd be a general upgrade in technology - though not as much as the NR because they'd have less of a need of a technological advantage over an enemy (which kinda doesn't exist except for a few wars that would spring up) as they have a numerical advantage.

 

During this time the Emperor and Vader have been expanding the number of Sith in the Galaxy. In an attempt to restore the old order, a set of rules governing the Sith are established. These rules eliminate the assassination of a Sith's master. instead a codified set of laws similar to the Jedi Code bring stability to the sith. The Emperor will not fall to the failings of those before him. The number of skilled Force users is still small, to avoid a new rebellion. Some culling is needed to keep idealists from penetrating the Sith academies.

I thought there was only ever 1 Master, and 1 Apprentice as shown in the movies?

 

Finally, the Vong arrive only to find that their scouting party has alerted the Empire to their arrival. As the Worldships arrive from their long journey they are immediately attacked. Because of the number of Imperial ships available, and the number of Death Stars, the Vong are outnumbered 3:1. it is by no means a short battle, and for a number of years the Vong are able to hold five sectors in the Outer Rim before being totally eradicated by the Empire. Because Vergere is also killed, knowledge of Zenoma Sekot is kept hidden, though the Emperor keeps a small team of researchers on the subject

 

Thank god, the last one !

Ther scouting party was a lot of wide spread infiltrators studying their enemy as well as in some instances inciting trouble. Under the Empire, the same would occur - except the trouble and rebellions inciting would be in the form of sleeper cells waiting for the rest of the Vong to come along to strike as to 'cause as much damage as possible. Imagine hundreds of terrorist strikes and rebellions popping up all over the galaxy as an completely unknown enemy strikes the Outer Rim without being noticed (lets remember, the planets they started to build up on weren't populated and only one had an independant survey team on it).

If for some miraculous reason the Empire catches a Vong infiltrator (don't know how they would either) there's no way they talk. Not only could the Vong take the torture, they'd have some organism to commit suicide for them an rendering their body useless for study.

I don't believe the Empire would be able to figure out that an alien race was invading them from outside the galaxy (which most people didn't believe in the NJO books as they thought it was impossilbe), let alone where they were going to hit.

 

 

 

My overall contention still stands that the Empire wouldn't have fared any better than the New Republic, as the Yuuzhan Vong devoloped their strategies and teactics based soley on their enemy - they're also a race brought up on war, honour, their gods and defeating those they consider infidels and spent 50 years devoloping their tactics weapons and preparing to attack the galaxy and it was in the last decade or so that their infiltrators started the ground works by de-stabalizing planets and the NR goverment, which as I talked about earlier would have worked as effectivelly on an over controlling Empire.

If the Empire had been in charge at the time, the war would have looked completely different yet had a simular effect where the Empire would have little intellegence on the enemy, confused by their alien ways (I'd think very confused considering the way that very few aliens entered the Imperial ranks)

[Zer_Teron]

hmm, know what would be awsome? THat the Rebellion had never happened and everyone in the Galaxy loved the Empire.

 

The Executer-class Star Destroyers would have went into mass production so that by the beginnning of the war there were thousands of them, there would also have been Imperial Star Destroyers numbering within the hundred thousands if not millions. New types of star destroyers would have come out giving the Empire greatly leaped forward ships to deal with the Yuuzhan Vong. The Empire would be using super advanced X-Wings, there would be at least 5 or six Sun Crushers and multiple Death Star IIIs.

[DarthTofu]

Okay, Krytos, I read most of your post, but let's face it- that was way too frickin' long! It's like trying to read an interesting thread that's 18 pages long so that you can post, man! Anyway, i like the other part of your strategy that you didn't develope- that Rebellion can never be crushed. This means that somewhere in the outer rim there are Rebel Mon Cals and stuff that go around blowing the living shit out of Vong Vessels, assuming that the original war is still on. Sort of like the Imperial remnant, only more far spread.

[Paul]

Even though I believe all that Vong/NR stuff to be garbage and you continually put my Empire down, you had a good post Krytos.-Grand Moff Conway

[Krytos]

Okay, Krytos, I read most of your post, but let's face it- that was way too frickin' long! It's like trying to read an interesting thread that's 18 pages long so that you can post, man!

 

Was kinda over the top wasn't it

I was in one of those ranting moods I sometimes get into

 

I just hope GAT doesn't reply by quoting it all

 

Even though I believe all that Vong/NR stuff to be garbage and you continually put my Empire down, you had a good post Krytos.-Grand Moff Conway

 

Thanks GMC.

I didn't mean to put the Empire down, I mean come on - it's the Empire!

But something I found with the NJO series I liked compared to most other EU novels was they way it picked at hte weaknesses in characters and other things set up in the EU like the New Republic which was shown to fall apart like the Old Republic did for simular reasons.

And also killed off characters. So I figured if the Empire was in the same shoes, all of its weaknesses would pop up as well.

[Grand_Admiral_Thrawn]

I had meant to post this yesterday, but hte bloody hting kept timing out. Sorry for the long read folks.

 

 

I think that only shows us that the writters were limited when it comes to inventive thinking.

If you look at all the battles in the novels, they rarely got into talking about how the fleets manouvred - they just fired on each other.

Yet, there's also comments about Kre'Fey being a brilliant tactician - as Elegos said, something to the effect of, when talknig to his captors: "Brilliant, but not in the same way as Thrawn" etc, etc.

It was just the way the novels were written.

 

Because we only have what is written to base our concepts of the Vong on, the writers failings translate as the Vong's. The fact that there were some good writers in the series only strengthens that argument. As for Kre'Fey, I really wasn't impressed with him. I think he was over-played.

 

 

Ok, totally agree except we know that there was a bigger Rebel fleet gathering at Sullust that was being used as a distraction.

Also, if the Rebel fleet were lost at Endor, there was this other fleet as well as unknown vessels not mentioned and the main players of the Rebellion were still alive like Mon Mathma - so we can speculate that the Rebel Alliance would have kept fighting and more Imperials would have defected over time.

 

I think that the Rebel fleet at Sullust was the same that attacked the Death Star. Even if it wasn't, look at who the Rebellion did loose at Endor: Luke, Han, Leia, Chewie, Lando, Ackbar, Crix, Wedge and all of Rogue Squadron, as well as the massive number of general crew. I also like to assume that Mon Mothma remained aboard Home One.

 

 

To true, the Rebel Alliance would have been forced into hidding for along time and more or less disappear after the battle of Endor until it would re-emerge. We know most beings in the galazy weren't the happiest with the Empire and a lot would join fight still - which was strongly shown after the Emperor died. So, I'd see the Rebel Alliance as a threat still.

 

Very true, but they would be much reduced. With such a large chunk of the upper command structure gone, those lower down in the Rebellion would be thrown into chaos, if only for a short time. Long enough for Imperial agents to take advantage of.

 

This point was, pherhaps, a little over-stated. The Rebellion wouldn't simply fall appart, but in the long run it would have been pushed into the Rim worlds.

 

But how would the Empire fare differently? No more wars to fight, they'd control most of the galaxy, and most of their veteran commanders and fighters would have retired long ago - but unlike the NR who only stopped the war with the Empire several years earlier, the Empire would asummably only be contending with small pockets of reisistance.

 

Unlike the New Republic the Empire was a military regime. They focused on armament and military strenght. For a real-world comparison, the Empire is like the United States, and the New Republic is Canada (I'm not making a political statement here, it's just an example).

 

I'd see the Empire whooping the Ssi-ruuk at Bakura (not Balmora, gotto love all the simular names ), and leaving a force their to fight the Srr-Ruuvi until they find their home world and make them extinct. As for taking that technology- I doubt the Empire could have gotten their hands on it before the Ssi-ruuk destroyed it. I doubt they would let the Empire get near it, being that prized a weapon.

I'd be surprised if the Empire would have used any other species as slaves in battle, but it's possilbe. Alos, they had already enslaved a lot of the races in the galaxy like the Wookies and Mon Calamari people.

 

Enslaving is one thing, but making them fight for you taks more than oppression. The Emperor was very bi gon technology (just look at Mount Tantis), so I think he would have gone to great lengths to get his hands on entechment... erm, tech. Unlike the events in the novel, the Empire would have pushed right into Ssi-Ruuvi space and taken what they wanted.

 

This I strongly doubt. Thrawn was sent to the Unknown Regions as punishment for ticking off the Emporer (who is not as forgiving as Vader ). Not to mention, if (or should I say when) Palpatine would find out about the Hand of Thrawn . . . I'm not sure if he'd be too happy about the instalation and The Empire of the Hand would unfortunatley never exist.

I'd consider Thrawn more or less out of the picture until a threat like the Vong came into existance - and I doubt Palpatine would let him retire or get to far out of reach by keeping strong control over supplies as well as having his own spies checking up on someone as dangerous as Thrawn. Even when he comes back, how much he'll be allowed to help is unknown.

 

Your knowledge on Thrawn is a little off. Thrawn's exile to the Unkown Regions was a ruse. He was sent there by the Emperor to gather systems to join the Empire and explore. The Empire of the Hand probably wouldn't have come into existance had the Emperor survived. The Empire of the Hand was comprised of all the systems Thrawn was to bring under the banner of the Empire. I think that, had he returned to find the Empire at full strenght, those systems would simply have become part of it. Certainly he would have had his own little network of planets to use as his own, but most Imperials seem to.

 

I agree that the Empire would continue hunting down the Rebellion as well as continue to take over most of the known galaxy (not so sure about the areas in the Outer Rim, and I'd see the Empire trying to make their way into Unknown Regions which would spread the Empire thinner - even if they have an incredibly large number of ships). And I'd also give them a 90% change of breaking up the Alliance - killing off the Rebellion in general would be impossible.

I dont see the Chiss being assimulated by the Empire - and if they were it would be by force, creating a new war (a war that would either end quickly by the Empire throwing their full weight into it before the Chiss know what's happening. Or a very, very long war) for the Empire at least. Which would in turn make Thrawn an enemy of the Empire (my assumption here, I'll let either GAT or SM correct me as they know the character far better than me).

The Black fleet crisis would never occur, and I'd think that there'd be a general upgrade in technology - though not as much as the NR because they'd have less of a need of a technological advantage over an enemy (which kinda doesn't exist except for a few wars that would spring up) as they have a numerical advantage.

 

There is no doubt that the Chiss would have to be assimilated by force, however the Empire would be the victor in the long run. Thrawn would not have rejoined the Chiss. Unlike his banishment from the Empire, his exile from the Chiss was all-too real. Contrary to what recent novels suggest, the Chiss will not compromise their beliefs.

 

As far as technology is concerned, the Empire would be fighting small groups left over from the Rebellion during this time span. That, and they have dedicated researchers working on new and more powerful weapons constantly, and devote massive ammounts of resources to that research.

 

I thought there was only ever 1 Master, and 1 Apprentice as shown in the movies?

 

That's why I said he would move away from the Sith Code that we know in order to expand his influence.

 

Ther scouting party was a lot of wide spread infiltrators studying their enemy as well as in some instances inciting trouble. Under the Empire, the same would occur - except the trouble and rebellions inciting would be in the form of sleeper cells waiting for the rest of the Vong to come along to strike as to 'cause as much damage as possible. Imagine hundreds of terrorist strikes and rebellions popping up all over the galaxy as an completely unknown enemy strikes the Outer Rim without being noticed (lets remember, the planets they started to build up on weren't populated and only one had an independant survey team on it).

If for some miraculous reason the Empire catches a Vong infiltrator (don't know how they would either) there's no way they talk. Not only could the Vong take the torture, they'd have some organism to commit suicide for them an rendering their body useless for study.

I don't believe the Empire would be able to figure out that an alien race was invading them from outside the galaxy (which most people didn't believe in the NJO books as they thought it was impossilbe), let alone where they were going to hit.

 

Perhaps my setup of the Imperial "Welcome Wagon" was overstated. Certainly the Vong would take many of the Rim worlds, but the Empire would have the military might to quash them. The New Republic ws too concerned with diplomacy and winning without exterminating. The Empire would have struck first and struck hard. The chemical agent the New Republic was developing would have been a first defence weapon for the Empire. If that didn't work, just blow them up. It's the Empires ruthlessness that would allow them to prevail quickly (perhaps two or three years).

 

My overall contention still stands that the Empire wouldn't have fared any better than the New Republic, as the Yuuzhan Vong devoloped their strategies and teactics based soley on their enemy - they're also a race brought up on war, honour, their gods and defeating those they consider infidels and spent 50 years devoloping their tactics weapons and preparing to attack the galaxy and it was in the last decade or so that their infiltrators started the ground works by de-stabalizing planets and the NR goverment, which as I talked about earlier would have worked as effectivelly on an over controlling Empire.

If the Empire had been in charge at the time, the war would have looked completely different yet had a simular effect where the Empire would have little intellegence on the enemy, confused by their alien ways (I'd think very confused considering the way that very few aliens entered the Imperial ranks)

 

Remember again, you would see two militaristic forces engaging, both of whom would not hesitate to destroy a planet to advance. The Emire would have a force roughly ten times the size of the New Republic. They would have struck first and asked questions later. Their goal would have been to wipe the Vong out. Just look at what Pallaeon was able to do with the remnants of the Imperial fleet. Now imagine what Thrawn or another Grand Admiral would do with a fraction of an Imperial fleet of thousands of ships.

[BadSamaritan]

Now imagine what Thrawn or another Grand Admiral would do with a fraction of an Imperial fleet of thousands of ships.

 

[rant]This is why I hate the fact that all the Grand Admirals wiped each other out or were assassinated (With the exception of Grant, who surrendered to the NR in exchange for amnesty). They all, in one way or another, would have made for a great read about how they tries to beat down the NR. But no, the greatest possbile threats to the NR had to get themselves killed off because god knows that if the Grand Admirals would have worked together, they would have prevented the NR from ever getting anywhere. [/rant]

[Krytos]

Oh no, long post to reply too

I'll try to keep it short so people can read through it all

 

 

Because we only have what is written to base our concepts of the Vong on, the writers failings translate as the Vong's. The fact that there were some good writers in the series only strengthens that argument. As for Kre'Fey, I really wasn't impressed with him. I think he was over-played.

 

I don't disagree that all we have to go with is the writters - though we need to always read between the lines. Considering that some writters seem to have little to no idea of the universe (as shown in the worst Star Wars novel thread), there's only so much we can go on.

I mean, if we go by authors completely Star Destroyers could be destroyed in a matter of seconds by a squadron of X-Wings, or an MC-90 and a handful of Gunships could challenge a SSD.

The NJO series had a lot of interviews with their authors. The author of Destiny's Way, for example, commented on his choice of ships in the book were made because he only had old texts of ships - that's why he wrote about MC-80s being used instead of 90s, Mediators and a whole range of other ships.

We also know that there are a many contridictions in the NJO - even with the good authors, who would generally skim around anything that wasn't working right and in some cases got rid of things in the plot (like the New Rebellion within the NR/GFFA to help stop the Vong that just dissapeared).

Nevertheless, I dont go making anything up (though I do try to fill in the blanks ) - but when a character is stated to be a good leader, tactitian etc. and not just passing by comments, I believe that over a poorly written space battle.

 

 

I think that the Rebel fleet at Sullust was the same that attacked the Death Star. Even if it wasn't, look at who the Rebellion did loose at Endor: Luke, Han, Leia, Chewie, Lando, Ackbar, Crix, Wedge and all of Rogue Squadron, as well as the massive number of general crew. I also like to assume that Mon Mothma remained aboard Home One.

 

Hard to tell for most of that, as all we can go on is the movies (or perhaps novels/original screenplay if anyone has them).

I still think that there was a second large fleet to act as a strong divertion that was expecting to see heavy combat.

Well, that's just me

I do agree though that they would have lost all of those mentioned except Mon Mathma. I just think it's stupid to have her there, she's the leader of the Rebellion with little to no military experience and would act as a liability to the entire fleet knowing they'd need to protect her at all costs as well as trying to take on the Death Star.

 

Very true, but they would be much reduced. With such a large chunk of the upper command structure gone, those lower down in the Rebellion would be thrown into chaos, if only for a short time. Long enough for Imperial agents to take advantage of.

 

This point was, pherhaps, a little over-stated. The Rebellion wouldn't simply fall appart, but in the long run it would have been pushed into the Rim worlds.

 

Oh, just thought of at least one character who'd come to play into the picture more so if the Rebel Alliance got wooped - Garm Bel Iblis. He'd be able to keep it alive for a very, very long time and still keep it as an effective rebellion. Just thought I'd bring that up

 

Unlike the New Republic the Empire was a military regime. They focused on armament and military strenght. For a real-world comparison, the Empire is like the United States, and the New Republic is Canada (I'm not making a political statement here, it's just an example).

 

True, though I'd still think considering how many people were willing to Rebel, that the Empire couldn't continue on throwing a lot of their funds into military armaments without worlds getting really annoyed and going for all out Rebellion.

Which would be squoshed, but would continue to fuel the Rebellion.

Still, it is more than possible for the Empire to have continued down this path. I guess it's one of those things that we can't know without it really happening - just like the topic of this debate

 

 

Your knowledge on Thrawn is a little off. Thrawn's exile to the Unkown Regions was a ruse. He was sent there by the Emperor to gather systems to join the Empire and explore. The Empire of the Hand probably wouldn't have come into existance had the Emperor survived. The Empire of the Hand was comprised of all the systems Thrawn was to bring under the banner of the Empire. I think that, had he returned to find the Empire at full strenght, those systems would simply have become part of it. Certainly he would have had his own little network of planets to use as his own, but most Imperials seem to.

 

Out of curiosity, has Thrawns "punishment" always been like this? Or has it come out from rescent novels?

Because from what I've read, it sounded more like straight out punishment for defiance. You know, sending a military commander to the middle of no-where with no-known enemy to fight, to sit around and do nothing etc.

Maybe I'm a little slow on the uptake

 

There is no doubt that the Chiss would have to be assimilated by force, however the Empire would be the victor in the long run. Thrawn would not have rejoined the Chiss. Unlike his banishment from the Empire, his exile from the Chiss was all-too real. Contrary to what recent novels suggest, the Chiss will not compromise their beliefs.

 

I had no doubt that the Empire would have decimated the Chiss. I figured that the Imperial force wouldn't have been overwhelming, and as such the Chiss could have held out for a while - but in the end the Empire has the numbers and, if I'm not mistaken, would have had better ships as well.

And even though Thrawn was exiled from Chiss space, I assumed he would have still harboured some form of honour or debt to them. I just couldn't see Thrawn sitting by as his people were overthrown by the Empire.

 

That's why I said he would move away from the Sith Code that we know in order to expand his influence.

 

Oops, miss-read your post. Sorry about that

 

Perhaps my setup of the Imperial "Welcome Wagon" was overstated. Certainly the Vong would take many of the Rim worlds, but the Empire would have the military might to quash them. The New Republic ws too concerned with diplomacy and winning without exterminating. The Empire would have struck first and struck hard. The chemical agent the New Republic was developing would have been a first defence weapon for the Empire. If that didn't work, just blow them up. It's the Empires ruthlessness that would allow them to prevail quickly (perhaps two or three years).

 

I agree, and if they faced the exact same enemy that the New Republic faced then they would have won outright far quicker than the NR and with far few worlds suffering.

However, I still feel that the Empire would have faced the Vong trained in the ways of fighting such an enemy. Making it far harder, and a far different war.

 

As for the chemical agent used, it was only effective for the GFFA because the Vong didn't expect the GFFA to use something like it. The Empire would fight dirty, and the Vong would have expected that and had precautions ready. Remember that the NR/GFFA was still thinknig that if the chemical was released that the Vong would find a way to stop it before they were wipped out - which the probably would have.

 

Remember again, you would see two militaristic forces engaging, both of whom would not hesitate to destroy a planet to advance. The Emire would have a force roughly ten times the size of the New Republic. They would have struck first and asked questions later. Their goal would have been to wipe the Vong out. Just look at what Pallaeon was able to do with the remnants of the Imperial fleet. Now imagine what Thrawn or another Grand Admiral would do with a fraction of an Imperial fleet of thousands of ships.

 

My point is that the Yuuzhan Vong we saw fighting the NR/GFFA were created from a religous warrior race that had torn apart there own galaxy fighting, built there entire social structure etc. on war and what they had learnt from generations of war and headed off to an unknown galaxy (something that the technology in the SW galaxy can't do - intergalactic travel). When they found a galaxy suitable, they infiltrated it before the Clone Wars and watched and learnt. As the NR came to power, they shifted their way of fighting to combat the NR.

Had the Empire still been in control, the Vong would have been spending those 50 years plotting the destruction of the Empire by finding ways to counter them. The Vong weren't stupid enough to just rush in a try to fight the Empire if they knew about all the ships they had (which they would have)

So, I'd expect the Vong to have ships better suited for fighting the Empire. Ships like the Matalok were meant to fight Mon Cals - so we could see them being quiet manouvrable etc.

Against the Empire, perhaps they'd have worried more about firepower and additional shielding/dovan basils.

The Vong didn't use many super capitals because they didn't need to. The NR only had a few, of which the Vong didn't know of the SSDs because they were hidden even to a lot of military commanders. Which is why they were effective agaist the Vong, they were rare and the Vong didn't regularily fight them or expect to. Though at the Battle of Mon Calamari the Viscount class Star Defender mentioned didn't seem to be having much of an impact in the battle against the Vong - which shows that when they expect to fight one they can effectively do so.

On the other hand, they had many units for combatting fighters in the form of frigates, corvettes, carriers and Coral Skippers.

 

It really comes down to a "what if" scenario.

What if the Vong attacked the galaxy with the Empire incharge as they had attacked the NR?

Result: Get smashed in a matter of 1 - 2 years of heavy, costly fighting with many worlds left destroyed or badly scarred due to both sides tactics.

 

What if the Empire destroyed the Rebellion and the galaxy flew under one banned AND they decided that all their ships weren't need?

A long and drawn out war would occur with the Vong having the initial advantage due to surprise and not needing to hold any/many worlds. Then it would slow down to a bloody slug fest were both sides would try to find quick ways of erridacting each other and destroy a sizable portion of the galaxy. The victor would be hard to call, but I'd still lean towards the Empire

 

What if the Empire faced a Vong ready to fight them?

Very, very bloody war with the Empire being badly crippled (loosing key planets like Coruscant) before find their footing again and contiuing the war for a long time before, eventually winning.

 

What if I could keep my posts down to a readable size?

Well, everyone could be bothered to read down to this part here

[Guest JediIgor]

Krytos,

 

I think you're giving the Vong way too much credit. The only time they even visited our galaxy before the invasion was before the Clone Wars, yes. But in one of the books Vergere clearly mentions that they leave almost right away, blindly believing they had easily won the battle and that the rest of the galaxy would've been just as easy. That's just one scout and he brought back no useful information to the rest of the Vong (because Zonama Sekot's ships were completely different from everyone else's).

 

Even if they did somehow stumble upon a small Republic patrol, this would've alerted Palpatine to an unknown new enemy and redoubled his efforts to make grand superweapons (for example the sun crusher which could wipe out an entire yuuzhan vong fleet in seconds). However, to the Vong themselves (even if luckily victorious) this would give away very little information except for the fact that the enemy was easily defeated and maybe little minutia such as the Republic having no counters for the dovin basals.

 

Since the Vong do not take prisoners, do not leave anyone alive, they could not have interrogated the Republic patrol. They would probably not have found out about the battle at Naboo, and a growing Separatists movement. But even if they did, it would've only fueled their belief that the galaxy as a whole was consumed in a sad power struggle and would be easily crushed by a 3rd party.

 

They would not have known about any superweapons, because they didn't exist at the time. They would not have known about any of the grand capital ships, because the Clone Wars hadn't begun yet and the massive ships such as the Procurator-class or Mandator-class, both inferior to an Executor-class or even a Sovereign-class. Because they would not have engaged in any wars (at least not with the Republic/Separatists.. others dont matter because they would've used different tactics/strategies) they could not have had an in-depth look on what a major galactic government would do to lead a war.

 

However, because of their one easy battle and their blind religious belief, they would go back to their masters and report that the rest of the galaxy would just as easily roll over. The only person to even doubt this, their Supreme Overlord, would already be replaced by Shimmra by the time the real invasion started.

 

On a purely technological basis, the Empire wouldn't even need to adapt to the Vong as quickly as the New Republic did. Starfighter lasers had a hard time penetrating the dovin basals, however capital ships' turbolasers packed so much power the dovin basals would overload and leave the Vong ships defenceless. The Empire, at this point would've had at least a dozen Executors (of the ones they built in the NR timeline, and probably more to instill fear into the galaxy) and at least several Sovereigns which would become the *new* mainstay supership. Alternatively, they could've developed something even better, in which case the Vong would have even a harder time.

 

Supposing now the Vong engaged in battle with the Empire, with their fervelent belief they would easily win.. if the Empire had most of their real fleets in the Core/Inner Rim, the Yuuzhan Vong could easily roll over the Outer Rim capturing many minor planets in the process, fueling their belief they would easily win the war. During this time, they could be observed by the Imperial powerfigures/strategicians/tacticians (or not), at which point they could mass all of their superships into several fleets and in one swift strike deal a mortal blow to the Yuuzhan Vong.

 

The fleets farthest away and in planets that the Empire couldn't care for would be destroyed by the Sun crusher, the bigger Worldships would be taken care by the Death Star(s), and any other huge ships would be taken out by the Sovereigns' superlaser. All other smaller ships could act as mere support while the Vong would die in their foolish belief that the Gods were merely playing a trick on them.

 

This is why the officers of the Remnant were so confident about the Empire easily defeating the Yuuzhan Vong. A more powerful, flexible adversary would always trump a lesser, conservative one.