Beeing Promoted in the Forums

Trejiuvanat · March 28, 2003

There is no separation between naval, army and fighter ranks.

I know from my most recent promotion that lietenant commander is at 400.

After 2000 posts you get to name your rank.

Perhaps Igor and Evaders could post a list here.

March 28, 2003

Not sure anyone has asked, nor if anyone has written this anywhere, but what is the number of posts necessary for each rank? And, thus, what is the order of ranks (and do you guys seperate the Naval ranks from the Army ranks from the Fighter ranks)?

Don't worry, I won't spam to get the rank.

I am able to come up with this:

Anyone fill the blanks or correct any mistakes I made?

ElvisMiggell · March 28, 2003

1500 is warlord

March 28, 2003

Thanks, Elvis.

I am able to come up with this:

Anyone fill the blanks or correct any mistakes I made?

SOCL · March 28, 2003

Should I contact Admin for the official numbers?

I'm sad, though, that the Army and Naval ranks are all mixed together/intertwined. For example, a Major is the Army equivalent of a the Naval rank of Lieutenant Commander. Admiral is the Naval equivalent of the Army rank of General. I'm sure at least some of you know of what I am talking about.

By the way, do the Admins frequent the boards?

Edited March 28, 2003 by SOCL

March 28, 2003

1. Should I contact Admin for the official numbers?

2. I'm sad, though, that the Army and Naval ranks are all mixed together/intertwined. For example, a Major is the Army equivalent of a the Naval rank of Lieutenant Commander. Admiral is the Naval equivalent of the Naval rank of General. I'm sure at least some of you know of what I am talking about.

3. By the way, do the Admins frequent the boards?

1. I don't know whether you should, but you certainly could.

2. I'm sure you're absolutely right, but consider this from a Star Wars point of view: in a situtation where ther are lightyears between two places you could fight a landwar, the navy is the most important asset you have. That's probably why an Admiral ranks higher in these forums than a General.

3. Check the forums often and keep your eyes open...

SOCL · March 28, 2003

I probably shouldn't contact them? Hmm . . . why's that?

Well, about the ranks: I was not proposing anything, but giving out facts. In the Star Wars Universe, the Army, Navy, and Fighter (Force) are all serperate branches of the armed forces/military. I can see why you would say that and, of course, it makes sense for the forums. Check out Dr. Curtis Saxton's site: The Star Wars Technical Commentaries: http://www.theforce.net/swtc/. That'll give you all the facts you can handle.

March 29, 2003

At least I got all the rank pictures right, hmm?

Thank Stratus for the ranks, he made up the names and I added the pictures... although an equivalent of one branch might be higher then the other branch it used to be a lot worse.. sometimes ranks from one branch lower then from another were higher up in the post count .

March 29, 2003

I probably shouldn't contact them? Hmm . . . why's that?

Well, about the ranks: I was not proposing anything, but giving out facts. In the Star Wars Universe, the Army, Navy, and Fighter (Force) are all serperate branches of the armed forces/military. I can see why you would say that and, of course, it makes sense for the forums. Check out Dr. Curtis Saxton's site: The Star Wars Technical Commentaries: http://www.theforce.net/swtc/. That'll give you all the facts you can handle.

I didn't mean that you shouldn't in the sense that I advised you you shouldn't but rather meant you shouldn't in the sense that I would never want to tell you that you should, though nevertheless certainly could. Get it?

As for the ranks, you're probably right. Heck, if it was up to me I'd ask Evaders and JediIgor for separate ranks for force-sensitive members, rangeing from Padawan to Jedi Master, but I guess we all have to wait with our preferences until we get to 2000 posts.

With regard to your third point: do the admins frequent the forums? I guess JediIgor's answer answered that for you. Although be advised that we usually ignore JediIgor.

SOCL · March 29, 2003

Well, there is no true rank of Warlord in STAR WARS, and, not trying to be rude, some of them are wrong, but many are correct. Sorry, I'm just a factual type of guy. In signature there is a link to a STAR WARS site where there is a table of ranks for all the branches, as well as insignia for them (except the enlisted ranks). It would take me a long time to go into detail about this. When I get home later this afternoon, I'll post a table of the ranks (including the popular ones such as Moff, Grand Moff, and the lesser-known Supreme Moff) and so forth.

Stay tuned!

Jahled · March 29, 2003

Supreme Moff!!!

Jahled waited patiently beside his wireless....twitching....

March 29, 2003

Any supreme titles on the Alliance side as well?

By the way, I must say that it would be pretty cool if we could have official Star Wars ranks on this site. What say you, oh, Evaders and JediIgor? It goes without saying that I would be happy to put in a few hours work to make it happen...

SOCL · March 29, 2003

Sorry, there are no Supreme titles within the Alliance.

Hey, I would be willing to help out as well. I could and would be willing to get a hold of the correct rank insignia, the correct ranks, and so forth.

Back to my previous post. I mentioned I would type up more details about STAR WARS ranks. First off, as far as enlisted rank insignia goes, I'm not sure what it looks like, but I can tell you that the enlisted ranks (private, corporal, sergeant, etc.) do have the squares for insignia because that is used only by officers. Also (this is where it gets even more confusing), there are (known) at least two different type of insignia. If you look at the rank insignia used in A New Hope aboard the Death Star, you'll notice that some ranks consist of two different colors on the same bar (yellow a blue, for example). Then you'll notice in The Empire Strikes Back the use of a different organization where for every one red square there is one blue square (this is all Imperial, of course, since there are very few exmaples of the Alliance's insignia). Then you have to take the code cylinders into account . . . it just gets very long and complicated, but believe it or not there is a system and an underlying pattern to it all.

First off, we must assume that the rank used in A New Hope is a special unit (that under Grand Moff Tarkin), which is 100% possible and probable. Then we must establish the fact that the rank insignia in Return of the Jedi is one big blooper due to the fact that they are all the same (except for a few exceptions, but that's only in the rank cylinder). We also know from a reference in one of the X-Wing novels that the more rank cylinders you have, the lower the rank you are (used when Ysanne Isard plucked a code cylinder from a commander's uniform and made him a captain). Thus, the same rank plaque (squares) can be used for different ranks, but with a different number of code cylinders. We also know that active officers have code cylinders, thus cadets do not (and enlisted personnel do not use the square-cylinder system for insignia and it must also be noted that cadet is not the same thing as recruit. Cadet is a person in training to be an officer, a recruit is someone in training to be a regular enlisted person). We must alos realize that equal ranks (such as Admiral and General) have the same rank insignia, even being the different branches of the military.

So now we go to known soruces (using the standard rank insignia primarily presented in The Empire Strikes Back). We know, from different characters, what ranks they are and from those few sources [such as Piett (before and after promotion), Ozzel, Veers, Needa, etc.] we know a pattern exists. Now, I'm not going to go into detail about what every single rank insignia looks like, but I will list all the ranks of the officers of all three branches (enlisted ranks not included because those are not clear and are under controversy). Here it is:

NAVY

Grand Admiral

High Admiral

Fleet Admiral

Admiral

Vice Admiral

Rear Admiral

Commodore

Line Captain

Captain

Commander

Lieutenant Commander

Lieutenant

Sub-Lieutenant

Acting Sub-Lieutenant

Ensign

Midshipman (AKA: Officer Cadet)

ARMY

Grand General

Surface Marshal

High General

General

Lieutenant General

Major General

Brigadier

High Colonel

Colonel

Lieutenant Colonel

Major

Captain

Lieutenant

Second Lieutenant

-

Officer Cadet

FIGHTER

?

?High Marshal

?Force Marshal

Chief Marshal

Marshal

Vice Marshal

Commodore

-

Group Captain

Wing Commander

Squadron Leader

Flight Lieutenant

Flying Officer

Pilot Officer

Acting Pilot Officer

Officer Cadet

NOTE: I tried to put the top three tables side-by-side so you could get an idea of comparison of rank, but sadly, couldn't. You'll have to do on your own. An easy way to do so is number them from top of bottom and compare them that way. 1 with 1, 9 with 9, etc. Also realize where you see ( - ) that means there is no equivalent rank (yes, this happens and is not a mistake).

The ranks of Moff, Grand Moff, and Supreme Moff fall between the ranks of High Admiral/Surface Marshal/?High Marshal, but are not ones that have to be achieved to make the "Grand" ranks. The other reason I did not list them in the above table is because they can also be ranks which civilians were appointed to. So moffs can be either military or civilian. Also, note that moffs command a region of space, grand moffs command an overregion of space, and a supreme moff probably either acts like a higher ranking grand moff or a lower ranking Grand Admiral/Grand General.

Alliance/New Republic ranks are just about the same (except the moffs and a few other exceptions). They are also simpler to understand and have less ranks (since they have a smaller military than the Empire). I could type those up to . . . but it would take time. By the way, Alliance/Republic insignia is dots on the chest instead of squares, and, yes, there is a pattern to those. Not sure how I will ever show you guys (at least here in the forums) pictures of the insignia, but I can guarantee that if any changes are made to the structure of the ranks here in the forums (as was suggested by Scathane), I would be more than willing to help and would get the appropriate rank insignia for all the ranks.

I could type up more details and am willing to on request and with questions, but if not, please be content.

Trejiuvanat · March 29, 2003

Quite extensive research, I'll add some things:

There is a Warlord rank, Thrawn had it and Zsinj gavehimself that promotion.

Major possible ranks among starfighters is General.

Moff are civilians, even if they are military governors. Moff Jerjerrod of the Moddell Sector, GRand Moff Tarkin Governor of the Outer RIm. There are also Prefects.

The Alliance has Generals in the navy. General Garm Bel Iblis.

SOCL · March 30, 2003

Actually . . .

The rank of warlord does not exist. It is a made up title used by Zsinj. Thrawn himself was called a Warlord of the Empire/Servant of the Emperor because he was one of the elite Grand Admirals. It's just a like a "nick name", if you will, it's not a true rank.

The Army ranks typically seen among Fighter units (such as Major, General, etc.) are, believe it or not, mistakes. These mistakes are commonly made since most of the STAR WARS novelists are Americans and the U.S. is one of the few countries in the world that uses Army ranks for their Air Force (since the U.S. Air Force started within the Army as the U.S. Army Air Corps). That's why that mistake is typically seen. The mistake is most clearly seen as being a mistake when they called Wedge a Commander and under him was a Captain . . . incorrect. Captain is always above Commander (branch makes no difference).

Moffs are not all civilians. Many of them are, such as governors, ending up as Ancient Roman consuls and proconsuls. During the early part of the Roman empire consuls were civilians who ruled the empire but were also called generals (such as Consul Varro during the Second Punic War). Moffs can also be military officers who are given the command of a sector over all operations within the area. There were many more moffs and grand moffs than simply the two in the movies and most of them were military, but eventually the numbers turned (around the time of The Hand of Thrawn series). I am quite aware of prefects, but they don't quite fit in to the rank structure of the Armed Forces.

The Alliance, actually, doesn't have generals in the Navy. That's an oxy-moron in itself. General Garm Bel Iblis was a civilian appointed to be a military officer (kind of like proconsuls in Rome) and was given command of a few ships. Simply because he commanded a few ships does not make him part of the Navy. During World War II, an Army colonel was forced to take command of a Naval vessel, but he was, of course, not part of the Navy. And in STAR WARS, with the continous interaction between the fleet and the Army, you have to consider that some Amry officers can be put into Naval officer positions, and vice versa.

All this research is, of course, not mine alone. Most of it comes from the the STAR WARS Technical Commentaries (a link can be found in my siganture: second link).

Trejiuvanat · March 30, 2003

Won't argue with you. Things is that if we want to have a Star Wars rank hierarchy we should define it.

As to the Thrawn-Warlord thing:

"His brilliant successes had won him the title of Warlord and the right to wear the white uniform of the Grand Admiral..."

(HTTE Pg7)

Pellaeon suggests that Warlord is a title.

SOCL · March 30, 2003

Title is quite different from rank. I live in Fort Campbell, KY and am surrounded by U.S. troops (or at least was, until the war in Iraq), and something I have learned is that there is a VERY big difference between a title and a rank. The division commander of the 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault) holds the rank of Major General, but his title is Division Commander. Does this mean that his rank is Division Commander? Of course not, his rank is major general. A better example is that of status. Warlord is probably more of a status title than anything else, though. Someone promoted to the general and admiral ranks is a command officer, but not necassarily a commander, but could actually be an administrative aide or a military liason. Yes, Thrawn was a Warlord, but nowhere in the chain of command or chain of rank do have the rank Warlord. Instead it is a status title, probably reserved for those of the "grand" ranks (i.e. Grand Admirals). But then again, I've heard Lord Darth Vader and Emperor Palpatine both called "warlords" as well. I've also heard Daala called a warlord.

The problem with the title of Warlord is that it was taken up by rogue Imperial military commanders after Endor and especially after Thrawn (as is most clear in Anderson's Darksaber).

Thrawn and other Grand Admirals were warlords, that is to say, "one who rules war", but their rank was, nonetheless, what it was (in this case: grand admiral). Again, Warlord is an honorary status title for higher ranking/higher status personnel. I don't mean to impose myself (for I can see why you would present such an arguement), but I am giving the facts, sir.

(The "sir" was not meant to be saracastic in any way, but with the utmost respect for you are a lieutenant colonel and I am a cadet).

April 1, 2003

Let's hear it for SOCL!!! We should promote him. The Cadet teaching all of us Commanders, Lieutenant Colonels and more a lesson.

April 1, 2003

By the way, I'm trying to put the lists that SOCL provided us with next to the (incomplete) SWR list.

Jahled, do you remember when you were promoted General?

ElvisMiggell · April 1, 2003

Of course, all this is assuming that the ranks in Star Wars are in fac tsupposed to be based on real life. There is no reason to suggest that they are. Maybe Lucas looked at real life and thought; "Hmmm, i think Commander sounds better the Captain, lets have it that way".

April 1, 2003

Of course, all this is assuming that the ranks in Star Wars are in fac tsupposed to be based on real life. There is no reason to suggest that they are. Maybe Lucas looked at real life and thought; "Hmmm, i think Commander sounds better the Captain, lets have it that way".

Good point, ElvisMiggell! A lot of people seem to have that problem: Star Wars is a universe on its own. To amplify Elvis' point:

a long time ago

But you have to admit, guys, that SOCL taught us all a lesson.

ElvisMiggell · April 1, 2003

Um, then you'd have to assume that Star Wars is actually real!

April 1, 2003

Um, then you'd have to assume that Star Wars is actually real!

Did you notice the ?

SOCL · April 1, 2003

Well, Warlord Elvis, all this information is based off the idea that STAR WARS is indeed real . . . simply put: how would it be understood to us(?). I assure you, though that this ranking system is about as accurate as your going to find (as well as the insignia I could provide for all of them). I don't mean to be rude or cocky, sirs and ma'ams, for I know as a cadet I should keep fairly quiet, but I do know what I am talking about.

April 1, 2003

Well, Warlord Elvis, all this information is based off the idea that STAR WARS is indeed real . . . simply put: how would it be understood to us(?). I assure you, though that this ranking system is about as accurate as your going to find (as well as the insignia I could provide for all of them). I don't mean to be rude or cocky, sirs and ma'ams, for I know as a cadet I should keep fairly quiet, but I do know what I am talking about.

What on earth gave you the idea that you have to keep quiet as a cadet???!!! And, please, quit the ma'ams and sirs!!! I 'm sure you know what you're talking about, I was merely making good sport of chronology, fact and fiction (talk to Jahled about fact and fiction, sometime, he's got them pretty messed up).

If you're serious about this, then send a private message, mail or request to Evaders and JediIgor and discuss it with them. I'm sure they're happy to hear what you have to say. As I said before, if there's anything I can do to help, I'll be happy to put in the time.

And..., er..., I mean it: forget about the ranking thing... the only one you have to be afraid of is..... (looks around suspiciously to verify whether there's anyone or anything that can here him): the terrible ZOOT!

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